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The Big & Dandy ++++ Thread

genaro

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 10, 2004
Messages
993

Welcome to the Big & Dandy ++++ (Plus Four Experiences) Thread

Visit the Main Shulgins Rating Scale Thread! (If you don't really understand what is meant by "++++")
Visit the specialized "++++ experiences on LSD thread!

original post:
Two questions:


Is 5-MeO-DMT the only compound rated ++++ by shulgin (in tihkal & pihkal) ?


I know that any psychedelic compound can produce such experiences, but which psychedelic drugs (including tryptamines, phenethylamines, dissociatives and other stuff) do you think have the biggest ++++ potential ?
I would place my bet on dmt and lsd...any other ones ?
 
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I've gotten ++++ experiences from most psychedelics that I've tried at high enough doses. Mushrooms have consistently taken me to that ++++ state, and 5-MeO-DMT, not many other psychedelics have taken me there more than once or twice though.
 
I think your lucky if you experience 1 ++++ in your life, let alone 2 or 3.

I'm pretty sure that 5-meo-dmt is the only psychadelic that Shuglin has written about his ++++ experience but I'm sure hes had at least 2 (he has been taking psychedelics for decades)...

I think the substances MOST likely to give a ++++ are 5-meo-dmt, dmt, 4-ho-dmt, LSD, Ketamine, Mescaline. But ANY drug has the potential.
 
Almost any psychedelic can be a catalyst for a mind ready to experience a ++++ experience. With LSD anyways, The final Ego Death leading to BPM IV sounds like ++++ material from many peoples perspectives.
 
I think a lot of folks make the mistake of assuming all of the trip reports in PIHKAL and TIHKAL are all Shulgin's experiences. In fact, few of the reports are actually his...many are from his inner circle (wife, research group family), and some are taken from classic literature.

The only report of a +4 experience that I know for a fact is Shulgin's is in the chapter he devoted to 2C-T-4. Oh, and I believe one from the Aleph series also gave Shulgin a +4.
 
I was pretty sure that the 5-meo-dmt was his. But I may be wrong...

Salvia definetly if your one of the people that experience profound effects.

I also (personally) think that tryptamines are more likely to promote a ++++ state. They have me far more concerned about life, the universe, the existence/presence of god, etc- which cause me to lose my place in the universe and let go. With phens I find that I consider MY life and my relationships and personal experiences- which detaches me somewhat from the experience. My 2c :)
 
Yeah the only ++++ report from shulgin I read was the 2C-T-4 chapter but i believe he's had a few.

I've only had one true ++++, i took a largish dose of 4-HO-DiPT when I was depressed, to sort out some things. No words.. One of those experiences where i'm crying of joy and am 100% positive its a ++++ even if i didnt know the definition..

After that experience a couple times I thought "maybe i had a ++++" - but if i'm thinking "maybe", I don't think it was - after the one on iprocin, nothing really compares.

Also it seemed to happen at the perfect point in my life at the time, I don't really see it happening again soon.. unless it 'needs to'.
 
this may be a silly question or a little off topic but...
does anybody else think that shulgin has had experiences he didnt write about or record, or hasnt published? i heard somewhere that shulgin never published some findings because of 'abuse potentials' or something. or maybe thqat there are some drugs he feels people would not appriciate for the right reasons ... ?
 
I think your lucky if you experience 1 ++++ in your life, let alone 2 or 3.
.


In twenty odd years of experimenting with psychedelics I've only had 2 of them. I agree that the tryptamines are more likely to make you consider the nature of the fabric of reality whereas the phenethylamines tend to focus you on the interactions between individuals/objects; funny thing is, the 2 experiences were from using mescaline and 2C-E. They encompassed everything - I know that's a bit abstract, but they require somebody more gifted than me with language to start to do them justice
 
I have tripped about 200 times and only had four ++++ experiences.
Two of these were with HBWR alone.

One was with HBWR+4-ho-mipt+DXM and I stayed in that state for about five hours and I was in total bliss the whole time. It was by far the longest lasting +4 I have had. I felt that I had complete understanding of everything. I could see how the soul connected to the body and how all souls were connected to each other. There were lots of things that I could not possibly describe. I don't think anybody could.

The other +4 was with 5-meo-amt. It only lasted a minute or two. It felt just as amazing as the other experiences while it was happening but it was over so quickly. I felt close to that state for maybe an hour. Most of my 5-meo-amt trips were a little boring so I was surprised to have that kind of experience with it.

I have felt that I was close to having a +4 on 2c-e and 4-ho-mipt, twice each and once on 4-ho-dipt. I have felt close maybe a dozen times on HBWR.
 
"I have tripped about 200 times and only had four ++++ experiences.
Two of these were with HBWR alone."

Really! With HBWR; how many did you take? Hopefully i'll get around to trying those some day.

I think I've had four + 4's in the last 30 years.

My Frist hit of 250+ug Tim scully's ALD-52, possibly! I'd do almost anything to find this again!

5 grams dried, of Psilocybe Cyanescen (Pacific NW); picked my self.

Sulfate Mescaline 450mg's; this one lasted a good 24hrs, well worth it!

22mg's 2C-E first time taking it, shew! I'll stick with 16\18mgs.

If Datura counts; One handful of seeds from a seed pod, chewed!
30 hours in wonderland! whoa; I feel once in a lifetime is enouth with this one!
cheers
 
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justlearning said:
"I have tripped about 200 times and only had four ++++ experiences.
Two of these were with HBWR alone."

Really! With HBWR; how many did you take? Hopefully i'll get around to trying those some day.


I am not sure what the dosage was with the first +4, it was either 12 or 16 seeds. It was about four years ago.

The second +4 was with 8 seeds. I did drink some poppy tea and I had some neurontin with them so that probably affected the trip. This was late last year.

The HBWR+4-ho-mipt+DXM combo was with 4 HBWR seeds, 22mg 4-ho-mipt and 800mg of DXM if I remember right. This was earlier this year, in march I think.
 
yeah hbwr 12 seeds or more can hit you pretty hard...if your stomach content survive to the nausea of course loool
 
An unknown phenethylamine (presumably 2C-I, 2C-E, or a combination of both) did it for me. My entire living room ceiling turned into a gigantic, spinning banana that claimed he was God. He then started multiplying into smaller and smaller bananas, which then trailed off into infinity. It was really impressive, I was in another world.
 
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