The Big & Dandy Synthetic Cannabinoids Thread

[TheAzo]

Is JWH-018 stable in acetone? If I had a gram of this stuff could I just dissolve it in 50 ml's of acetone and keep it there to put on tobacco/bud? Or, if keeping it in there a long time will degrade it, would it be possible to dissolve and mix it with tobacco/bud right away?

Acetone seems perfect for this, it shouldn't take more then 48 hours to be completely removed from the carrier and will make for some perfect dosing. Any thoughts on this?

I doubt degradation would be a problem (though, some tests would be in order). Do the JWH's dissolve well in acetone? They're rather disagreeable in terms of what they dissolve in.

Also, 48 hours for it to evaporate? Unless you're pouring it on your herb until it's thoroughly soaked (which you shouldnt do, especially if you're doing this to improve weed) and then letting it dry in a wad with poor airflow, that is greatly excessive.
If you were to just dampen the herb (which i assume is what you're planning to do), 48 minutes is more than enough. Acetone evaporates fast.

 

[Listening]

I don't find cannabis or any synthetic cannabinoids to be 'psychedelic'. Visual-inducing maybe, but it's just movement and flowing of patterning. I've never felt a profound unity with the world around me while stoned. I've never recalled long lost childhood memories while stoned. I've never gone out of body while stoned. I've never seen anthropomorphic inanimate objects while stoned.

Interesting. I've experienced all of that on weed. In fact, it's exactly why I fell in love with weed for years before trying any of the more intense psychedelics.

I've often thought there are two types of potheads, "psychedelic potheads" and "stoned potheads" (and of course all kinds of in-betweens and crosses). I also find it interesting that psychedelic users (like yourself) can also be non-psychedelic pot users.

 

[colorsinthevoid]

^Who said JWHs don't build tolerance? I'd be surprised if they don't. Also the fact that they're not structurally similar to cannabinoids doesn't mean there won't be cross-tolerance there, it's the receptors the drugs act on which matters (which are the same I think).

Er, what I meant is that I don't have JWH tolerance. I've heard reports of cross-tolerance with THC being widespread but not total (that is you have less tolerance from THC than you can develop with JWH).

 

[cmccrack]

JWH-018 - First Time

I am posting this report because my experience varied so greatly from other published material.

Approximately 4mg was vaporized in a glass pipe in inhaled in a single toke. Come up was fairly rapid over 5 minutes, maybe less. The high was a unique one to me. There was an intense body buzz as well as a strong head buzz. Vibrations on my skin and in my head were of quite high amplitude. Moving any body part seemed to interrupt the steady state vibrations with the impact of a new one, like a bell being struck. My wife said I looked stoned out of my head; I can imagine that's true because every movement was very jarring. I spent a lot of time just standing/sitting very still and looking off into space. The headspace was quite psychedelic, although I did not get the anxiety that is apparently common at this dose. Following television plots was difficult.

The most divergent aspect of the experience from published reports is the duration. 5 hours later I was still exceptionally high. The psychedelic headspace had calmed and the body buzz vibrations had decreased in amplitude, but music was still able to transport me almost out of my body. I was able to fall into a sort of trance-sleep which I assume became real sleep after some unknown amount of time. By morning (T+12 hrs) I was still a little wobbly on my feet, but by T+13 hrs I was normal.

By mid-afternoon, I feel like the high is long gone. I'm thinking nothing of it while chopping onions. The fumes irritate my eyes and simultaneously my high starts to return (?!). A light-to-moderate head buzz, slight euphoria, slight dizziness, and lightheadedness persisted for about 5 minutes while I recovered from the fumes.

Had the duration on this one been as short as I expected it would have been a good time. However, I have to put this on the shelf with other items I can only do every so often because of time constraints. On the good side, there was no body load or hangover to speak of.

 

[cmccrack]

JWH-200 - Oral Dose

Approximately 50mg of JWH-200 was added to a small container of heated oil and stirred. Most of the flecks dissolved instantly, leaving a few small specks at the bottom. The oil was cooled and eaten by 2 people on bread. This makes dosage about 25mg per person.

Come up was very slow, as expected, and peaked around 30 minutes after ingestion for person 1. The high was very mild, maybe equivalent in intensity to one or two beers. After an hour, a single mixed drink combined well with the tail end of the JWH-200. The experience was pleasant, but not notable.

Person 2 reported no noticeable effects.

 

[cmccrack]

If not made clear, the previous two reports were from different days. The two were not mixed in any way.

 

[xbLeAcHx]

SWIM will know in a few days if he can pass a lab test using jwh-018. SWIM is very confident that the results will be negative. Worst case scenario, false positive that will be confirmed negative on GC/MS. The jwh molecule actually looks nothing like thc so I would think they would have to design a test specifically for it...but lets not start talking about such things.8)

 

[Delsyd]

i have passed drug tests while using JWH's (in the form of psice gold and all those other smoke blends)

 

[cmccrack]

JWH-073 - First Time

Approximately 4mg of JWH-073 was vaporized in a glass pipe and the very acrid smoke inhaled.

The high comes on gradually over 5-10 minutes. Music was very good, mindset was very trance-like. When not being lulled into a trance-sleep state while listening to music, the high was pleasant but somewhat different than the other JWHs. I was very clear headed with a nice body buzz.

Effects are nearly completely gone at T+2hrs.

 

[cmccrack]

JWH-073 - Second Time, Higher Dose

Perhaps 7-10mg was vaporized in a glass pipe.

Effects were (obviously) stronger than the previous entry, and somewhat different in character. Body buzz was still very nice, but mental clarity began to fade. Headspace was pleasant, but more stoney than JWH-200. My attention was easily distracted and I was prone to "zoning out". I felt a mild to moderate psychedelic edge, but nothing as intense as higher doses of JWH-200 or JWH-018. It was slightly stimulating up to about T+2hrs, at which point my eyes began to get very heavy. I went to bed and listened to some trance music on my iPod. Despite the body buzz beginning to fade, the music sounded and felt really good. I could close my eyes and space out to the point where I was in a music induced trance, my body floating weightlessly. I don't know how long I listened to music before falling asleep. It could have been anywhere between 30-60 minutes. Sleep was good, but I was a little slow to wake. After a shower, I felt perfectly fine.

This was distinctly different from the other JWHs I've tried, but each, including this one, are interesting individually. I think I may experiment later with various combinations to see how their characters interact.

 

[cmccrack]

JWH-081 Dose?

Yes I got full psychedelic experiences from the JWH's, particularly the JWH-081 and the JWH-073.
I was a little bit surprised being a cannabis novice who always thought its just stoners for lazy people...

What's an appropriate dose for JWH-081? Please note this is not JWH-018. I have some 081 on the way and I'd like to know if I should titrate myself on the 1mg scale like 018 or 10-20mg like 200.

 

[hugo24]

Its 3-10mg.

 

[cmccrack]

JWH-073 - Oral Administration

60mg of JWH-073 was dissolved in very warm butter and eaten on bread.

Effects came on gradually over 30-40 minutes and peaked for at least an hour. During the peak, body buzz was very similar to smoked JWH-073 but not as trippy or psychedelic in the head. It was only slightly stimulating and only gave me mild to moderate munchies. Once over the peak effects, my eyes got very heavy and I nearly fell asleep watching TV for the next 45 minutes. In bed, music again sounded excellent. I lay perfectly still, floating weightlessly inches above the bed, suspended by the music until I fell asleep maybe 5 or 6 songs into the playlist. The effects were nowhere close to wearing off by the time I fell asleep, so I have no idea what the actual duration was. However, judging by the peak duration, it is certainly longer than via the smoked ROA (as expected).

 

[phalaris]

Initial Dose of Cannabinoids - Anxiety and the Beginner

Hello fellow investigators,

I have found that in this process of research from many cannabinoid users, both synthetic and bio-contrived, there tends to be a rather worrisome danger that cannabis can cause heavy anxiety and even panic attacks to those who have either never tried them before or who have overdone it while having no tolerance to them. There have been some cases of children (mostly the usual crowd of teenagers) who try out cannabis as a first drug. This usually goes against any conventional wisdom as to what age someone is responsible enough to be doing any psychoactive chemicals without being carefully watched by someone trusted. This conversation is highly controversial and is not the point of this thread.

The point I would like to get to is (in effort to aid the psychedelics research field) to discuss the possibility of use of synthetic cannabinoids in controlled studies for the use of drugs for positive effects and pro-active uses.

The process of a 'bad trip' in being necessary to have a personal realization and turn it into a change in self is a huge topic of discussion as well and I do not want this thread to wander off into that direction as well, except for the necessity to understand one's control over anxiety and panic, which is a common concern at all times.

THE POINT - What I want to discuss is what possibility do the more sedating and analgesic synthetic cannabinoids have in easing someone into the realm of mental states that occur while being high. What other benefit does smoking cannabinoids have on the body (always an enormous concern) and how can we benefit from the information attained from these studies.

So far we have the insight from many here who have taken the JWH and CP series as well as some of the other lesser known compounds which excite CB1 and CB2 receptors in areas of the brain attributed with the high from smoking Marijuana. Most of what I have read has to do with how a comfortable or spectacular a session of positive effects have occurred after smoking whatever compound is of concern. And we have a list of compounds now that have similar effects that occur between many users. http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=279987
This would be the thread to read on an assortment of these compounds. The issue is in having to overcome a level of anxiety which is an apparent concern while taking some of the more energetic and short duration cannabinoids.

If someone were to ingest a cannabinoid for the first time ever or after a long hiatus in which they had no tolerance, would something like JWH-073 be of better use for this than say CP-47497 which has a longer duration, yet jwh-073 seems to have a higher dosage range which might help in gauging initial effects?

The reason I suggest this talk is that some researchers might be looking for a medication which would help people who are in pain or are looking for an alternative to curb withdrawals to mild opiate or opioid receptor agonist drugs or alcoholism or many other issues over addiction.

I have personally tried JWH-018 and find it incredibly useful as an alternative to Marijuana since it has a benign and rather undetectable scent after being vaporized, does not involve inhaling massive amounts of smoke, is shorter acting than some of the lingering effects of certain strains of cannabis, it leaves me with an energetic high where I don't get "couch lock" and there seem to be no lulling and lingering effects. However, I have tried CP-55,940 and found it to have that lingering effect which lasts quite a long time. I found CP-55,940 to have a good initial effect with no anxiety as I have had many times with JWH-018 after trying it again after hiatus. So instead of putting up with the near-panic I can get from JWH-018, I started with CP-55,940 and got to a point where I felt nearly as high as a JWH-018 high, then after that wore off I took more JWH-018 which was wonderful. Yet this kind of achievement was more along the lines of what I could use as a recreational device.

How can the bluelight community help researches in finding a cure for cancer by promoting these agents and alternative uses or other productive finds for using these compounds in the first place? Or possibly find a temporary legal workaround to our disgusting laws and restrictions on the use and possession of Marijuana? Or how can we just help out the beginner who is looking for a method of ingestion which won't cause them to seek emergency medical services from "doing the wrong thing" ?

BTW, I also really love the taste of vaporized JWH-018. It has what I can think of as "a creamy new shoe scent" but with CP-55,940 I get this pungent, chlorinated, melting pool toy vision.

 

[cmccrack]

JWH-073 - Oral Dose, Different Subject

50mg was dissolved in very warm butter and eaten on bread. The subject of this report is not the same as previous reports. Previous administration of 25mg oral produced zero effects.

About an hour after administration, she felt fuzziness in her hands and pressure around her eyes. 5-10 minutes later she was in the middle of a bad psychedelic trip. Her muscles tightened uncontrollably and involuntarily contorting her body into one pose after another. Something like a slow motion seizure. Speech appeared impossible at any time, but the muscle activity came in waves. She would tighten up and try to get unstuck for a minute and then she would be calm and relaxed for 3 or 4. During the calm periods she would zone out perhaps descending into a trance state and then be startled awake and look intensely confused and scared. During the convulsions, her stomach was apparently also tightening. I gave her headphones with various types of music and played a couple of songs to see if that would help. She listened for a few seconds and then yanked the buds out of her ears as if they were painful. She made her way to the bathroom and dry heaved off and on for the next 90 minutes. She tried several times to get back to bed during this period, but apparently any movement of her head resulted in nausea and dry heaves. Eventually she was able to make it to bed, calmed down, and got to sleep.

As told (to me) in first person the following morning:

My hands felt rubbery. My face felt like it was getting very hot. When I put my hands on my face it seemed to pull the heat away, but felt like I was pressing foam or rubber on my face. My muscles kept contracting and I couldn't stop it. I would feel it coming on and try to fight it, but it kept coming. I would go to what felt like sleep and then wake up and everything in the room had moved. All of the walls were in a different place and I had to look around the room constantly to keep the walls from moving closer to me. The wall in the center of vision didn't move, but the walls on the peripheral felt like they were closing in on me. I thought they were going to crush me. Moving made me motion sick and I would get nauseous. I thought you had overdosed me on purpose and were waiting for me to die. I kept thinking you were going to call 911, but you never did. I thought of that cop who ate pot brownies and called for help saying he thought he and his wife were dying. I thought that I didn't want to die this way. I heard cars outside and thought they were right outside the wall. Everything I heard was either in the room with us or immediately outside the wall. I couldn't listen to the music. One of the songs I knew that I liked, but listening to it was painful and I didn't like it. I knew that I had to get the drug out of me, but I didn't know how.
​

The following morning, she is fine. She feels good, no hangover or residual effect, and no bad feelings for or about the night before. She says it was immensely frightening at the time, but there is no lingering fear now. She says that she didn't die and she feels fine, so all is well. She just knows not to try that one again.

 

[lazydullard]

50mg of JWH 073 would be like 10 times a moderate dose vaporized.. I haven't tried oral yet. Do you think her muscle activity was beyond the scope of a panic attack?

A heavy dose will put me in a trance state. Anyone ever get "stuck" on weed? It's similiar but lasts longer and uh.. is probably less fun. The body "buzz" on 73 is heavy and probably unpleasant to most people..

JWH 018 and JWH 073 share more characteristics with DXM than weed to me.

 

[cmccrack]

50mg of JWH 073 would be like 10 times a moderate dose vaporized.. I haven't tried oral yet. Do you think her muscle activity was beyond the scope of a panic attack?

25mg oral for me produced threshold effect. For her it produced zero effects. I used 60mg oral with good results, so I backed off slightly when I prepared hers, 50mg.

I don't know about the muscle activity. She says it felt similar to the involuntary stretching you do with MDMA, but more widespread and more erratic. I've never had or been around someone who has had a true panic attack, so I couldn't differentiate panic attack generated muscle activity and drug induced activity.

A heavy dose will put me in a trance state. Anyone ever get "stuck" on weed? It's similiar but lasts longer and uh.. is probably less fun. The body "buzz" on 73 is heavy and probably unpleasant to most people..

I like the trance state as well as the heavy body buzz.

 

[Listening]

^^^

I'm a big fan of eating weed, and have almost never had a bad experience (only overdid it a few times), but I've seen many many bad experiences in other people (with good food that did no harm to me)... to the point where I hesitate to give anyone any pot food unless they are already very experienced with eating THC. Anyway, my point is that it sounds to me like the synthetics are at least equally touchy. I'd be careful dosing this stuff orally for anyone who is inexperienced with eating pot-goods.

 

[matterofperception]

Does anyone know how strong the evidence is that the JWH series is carcinogenic? Im asking becasue lately I have been smoking a fair bit of jwh-073. The buzz is similair to weed but more dysphoric for me. After I smoke it i feel uncomfortable and mentally. The drug feels toxic to me I know that isn't and indicator of actual toxicity but something about the JWH series doesn't feel right to me.

 

[BiG StroOnZ]

Does anyone know how strong the evidence is that the JWH series is carcinogenic? Im asking becasue lately I have been smoking a fair bit of jwh-073. The buzz is similair to weed but more dysphoric for me. After I smoke it i feel uncomfortable and mentally. The drug feels toxic to me I know that isn't and indicator of actual toxicity but something about the JWH series doesn't feel right to me.

It's all in your head, as the Cannabinoid series is more psychedelic than Cannabis.

The concern over its carcinogenic nature, and toxicology, are still at the speculative level. What we do have however, is research which provides insights into the cancer/tumor fighting abilities of these compounds -

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=520822#post520822

http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v101/n6/abs/6605248a.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=a3856676f52f83dacb4997e57c829176

http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2009/10/30/1535-7163.MCT-09-0448.abstract

http://www.jleukbio.org/cgi/content/full/82/3/532

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/16116/version/1

http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT6A/HTML/11._Fogli_&_Breschi,_103-116.html