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Merging
Merging
☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy Storage Thread
- Thread starter fizzacyst
- Start date
An Iz
Bluelighter
well now any specific discussion of storage will be buried in this thread. Do you think it would be possible to leave it separate for a bit?
That way if anyone found a specifically cool way to store -DMT in particular- they might be tempted to post and get some props for it-- and they almost certainly wouldn't be looking in the big and dandy storage thread, because thats a resource for people who need help, and the theoretical innovator I'm imagining already has it figured out.
That way if anyone found a specifically cool way to store -DMT in particular- they might be tempted to post and get some props for it-- and they almost certainly wouldn't be looking in the big and dandy storage thread, because thats a resource for people who need help, and the theoretical innovator I'm imagining already has it figured out.
Delta-9-THC
Bluelighter
Is it really unsafe to keep DMT in plastic containers as someone mentioned above?
any major dude
Bluelight Crew
Actually, DMT freebase seems quite stable. I've had some for two years that was stored in glass, away from light, but in room temperature, and it's still just fine. It is a bit waxy and sticks to things even when totally pure, but I haven't found it too bad.
That said, you should definitely still store it in the fridge with dessicant and away from air and light and heat.
I'm going to merge this with the DMT thread because storage discussion is useful for the Big and Dandies.
yeah, storing it at room temp doesn't seem to cause any decrease in potency, but putting it in the frig or freezer seems to make it less sticky and easier to deal with
clayfig
Bluelighter
whats a good thing to absorb lsd that is not only fast drying but also alright to carry a bunch around ( sweet tarts, altoids,) what ever is your guy's favorites fast drying lsd mediums =] also how long should you let it sit before puting them back in a box/container?
dread
Bluelighter
^ blotter paper...
jamieladue
Greenlighter
- Joined
- May 22, 2009
- Messages
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someody i know recently got a vial of cid and he dropped itall on tedy grhams. i was wondering how long they wil retain tir potency. they were in a tupperware in a dark cabinet in my living room for two days whic were quite hot but then they were put into three baggies (condenation) and then put back in thetupperware still in the baggies and placed in the fridge...i have searched the web and can't find anything about storing tedy grahams impregnated with acid so any help would be great, i dont plan on saving them more than a month and a half
jamieladue
Greenlighter
- Joined
- May 22, 2009
- Messages
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als has anyone ever heard nything about when a vial is empty you can stil get about 10 to 15 more hits out of it by putting alcohol or breath shit in it and shaking it up?
edibleresplendance
Greenlighter
- Joined
- May 31, 2009
- Messages
- 7
Honey, is it as sweet of a solution as it sounds?
I registered at bluelight to post something that dawned on me after reading most of this thread.
The other day as I was looking in the cupboard at a bottle of honey and had a sparkly 'of course!' moment. For a while now I have been brewing over the oxygen factor in relation to chemical degradation, especially when using primarily rigid containers opened in the regular home environment and progressively emptied of non-gas contents. It seems that unless one goes to the trouble of designing and maintaining a smooth container to container refilling system to keep the primary use container nearly full, ( -using containers that most appropriately accommodate the volume of the remaining material, bulk either large or multiple small package long term storage transferred both to the frequent access vesicles and the long term remaining material to a smaller container if needed.- ) the desirable substance to oxygen/ambient fluid ratio is going to decrease(? -more oxygen/ambient air, less preserved non-gas material) as one removes the contents from a rigid storage container.
This is most obvious, and I think it really most clearly occurred to me, with the 6 flat ounces of soda pop at the bottom of a two liter bottle. And not only is the soda flat, and therefore practically worthless to me, but there is some ten by 6 cubic inches of nicely packaged air! I have stared in utter amusement at the bottle of wonderfully packaged air and shook my head as I attempt to rearrange things and make room for tomorrows lunch, while cooling the house down of course with the refrigerator.
I'm still stewing over possible designs of a simple 'shrinking soda pop container.' In some ways this has been done many times over, but not in the same application of also saving space inside a refrigerator. I can't imagine coca cola selling beverages in something like a box of wine plastic pouch volume adaptive container -- just to help the consumer save on space. But I could see a versatile reusable volume adaptive device being sold, maybe there already is. Supplementing argon gas may displace the oxygen, using a keggerator keeps the beer carbonated and cold, but neither of these methods address the overall volume issue. And the fancy foil pouch of emergency coast guard approved water is single use. Space management is not a catastrophic concern, but at the same time I don't think it could hurt to float these little ideas out into the wide world of thinking people. It may perhaps spark something!
I haven't thoroughly read this whole thread yet, but skimming through it I don't remember seeing any mention of honey, which is almost surprising.
Honey! I can attribute it to the book 'acid dreams, the sixties, the cia and something something something by someone Lee. fascinating book, alittle short on the information sources though. In this book a smiley Cap't. Hubbard - not the scientology guy- is described as using a jar of honey and a spoon as a traveling preservational excipient for Delysid. Seeing as he is described as having rather direct affiliation with the sorts of groups who took things pretty seriously, I'm thinking it may not be a solely whimsical choice to use honey, but i don't know if it turned out to have any major drawbacks.
Now the thing that intrigued me the other night about the possibility of using honey for storage of all sorts of things is that it's a sweet and edible oxygen displacing excipient that has the unique advantage of the sticky tendency to remain consolidated and visible without falling apart microscopically and flickering off into the environment invisibly to the same extent that seems to happen with less viscous and unsticky solutions and tinctures. In theory this translates into near perfect management of loss prevention with what seems like a perfect very long term storage medium...
This is all in theory to me, though I plan on trying it with aniracetam. I just need to know if I would regret dumping a bunch of expensive nootropics into a bottle of honey for any stability concerning reasons, leaving aside the interesting challenge of actually working with such a sticky mess? Are there any specific chemicals that one would specifically want to avoid mixing into honey, maybe because of some reaction? I ended up on this forum in search of general, detailed, and practical information regarding storage and chemical degradation in general, and most of these wild tryptamines discussed here I have never specifically heard of, let alone laid eyes on, I'm looking more for trying to find out things like why the manufacturer recommends specifically not to store bulk L-tyrosine in a freezer. I really appreciate the mention in this thread of letting containers come to room temperature when removed from the cold.
I am posting this awfully long and tangential post both to share the ideas and to also run them by some far more experienced individuals, hopefully some of whom may have some experience specifically with honey as an excipient.
It seems like it would be simple and without complication to add more honey to a stored preparation- eliminating all that room for ambient air to occupy, using plain honey would reduce the potency/concentration, but that can be addressed.
Ages ago a distant friend told me about layering dried mycological sacraments intermittently between layers of honey in a mason jar and forgetting about it in a good cool dark place for a year, there being apparently some advantage to this method. I haven't tried that with mushrooms but i am currently trying it with yerba matte and just now i'm thinking about trying it with salvia divinorum.
There's a list I have of other things I've been wondering about during this amateur scientific quest in the whys and hows of chemical degradation. I recall reading an unanswered post about the reference to glass as a semi-permeable liquid, and also in another previous info google quest I came across some forum discussion somewhere about the having to use a different chemical lacking the psychological effects profile of Delysid in the training of canine search dogs to aromatically detect it. For obvious reasons, lol. In that discussion I think I came across mention of multiple layers of corrugated plastic being the most hermetically contained material, at least when containing as much trace of aroma as possible is concerned. With the general lean towards amber glass in this thread it seems interesting to just through that out there.
and what about steel? aluminum? versus plastic, glass? Rubber? Cork? - as stoppers for containers? what is in oxygen absorbing packets?
can desiccants mess up an ethanol solution/tincture over time? Can those little desiccant packets actually desorb moisture into their environment if not fully recharged?- of course, this depends on things like what their environment is in comparison, there having to be a difference, which kind of reminds of electrical voltage... what do desiccants actually absorb, water only?, what about ethanol vapor etc...? and even more beyond the specific scope of this threads topic, what about the chemical degradation of plastics and rubber themselves? Is there a way to revive a cracked and dried out rubber band? How does one preserve plastics, and is there a way to postmarketedly reduce the brittleness of the more brittle plastic mixtures? oh my goodness. there's no end in sight to wonder. I think I'll wrap it up about now, with everything covered that I set out to post, so far. if necessary I can strain the specific questions out of this peaceful ranting, but later. my legs hurt and it's ergonomic recognition time.
I registered at bluelight to post something that dawned on me after reading most of this thread.
The other day as I was looking in the cupboard at a bottle of honey and had a sparkly 'of course!' moment. For a while now I have been brewing over the oxygen factor in relation to chemical degradation, especially when using primarily rigid containers opened in the regular home environment and progressively emptied of non-gas contents. It seems that unless one goes to the trouble of designing and maintaining a smooth container to container refilling system to keep the primary use container nearly full, ( -using containers that most appropriately accommodate the volume of the remaining material, bulk either large or multiple small package long term storage transferred both to the frequent access vesicles and the long term remaining material to a smaller container if needed.- ) the desirable substance to oxygen/ambient fluid ratio is going to decrease(? -more oxygen/ambient air, less preserved non-gas material) as one removes the contents from a rigid storage container.
This is most obvious, and I think it really most clearly occurred to me, with the 6 flat ounces of soda pop at the bottom of a two liter bottle. And not only is the soda flat, and therefore practically worthless to me, but there is some ten by 6 cubic inches of nicely packaged air! I have stared in utter amusement at the bottle of wonderfully packaged air and shook my head as I attempt to rearrange things and make room for tomorrows lunch, while cooling the house down of course with the refrigerator.
I'm still stewing over possible designs of a simple 'shrinking soda pop container.' In some ways this has been done many times over, but not in the same application of also saving space inside a refrigerator. I can't imagine coca cola selling beverages in something like a box of wine plastic pouch volume adaptive container -- just to help the consumer save on space. But I could see a versatile reusable volume adaptive device being sold, maybe there already is. Supplementing argon gas may displace the oxygen, using a keggerator keeps the beer carbonated and cold, but neither of these methods address the overall volume issue. And the fancy foil pouch of emergency coast guard approved water is single use. Space management is not a catastrophic concern, but at the same time I don't think it could hurt to float these little ideas out into the wide world of thinking people. It may perhaps spark something!
I haven't thoroughly read this whole thread yet, but skimming through it I don't remember seeing any mention of honey, which is almost surprising.
Honey! I can attribute it to the book 'acid dreams, the sixties, the cia and something something something by someone Lee. fascinating book, alittle short on the information sources though. In this book a smiley Cap't. Hubbard - not the scientology guy- is described as using a jar of honey and a spoon as a traveling preservational excipient for Delysid. Seeing as he is described as having rather direct affiliation with the sorts of groups who took things pretty seriously, I'm thinking it may not be a solely whimsical choice to use honey, but i don't know if it turned out to have any major drawbacks.
Now the thing that intrigued me the other night about the possibility of using honey for storage of all sorts of things is that it's a sweet and edible oxygen displacing excipient that has the unique advantage of the sticky tendency to remain consolidated and visible without falling apart microscopically and flickering off into the environment invisibly to the same extent that seems to happen with less viscous and unsticky solutions and tinctures. In theory this translates into near perfect management of loss prevention with what seems like a perfect very long term storage medium...
This is all in theory to me, though I plan on trying it with aniracetam. I just need to know if I would regret dumping a bunch of expensive nootropics into a bottle of honey for any stability concerning reasons, leaving aside the interesting challenge of actually working with such a sticky mess? Are there any specific chemicals that one would specifically want to avoid mixing into honey, maybe because of some reaction? I ended up on this forum in search of general, detailed, and practical information regarding storage and chemical degradation in general, and most of these wild tryptamines discussed here I have never specifically heard of, let alone laid eyes on, I'm looking more for trying to find out things like why the manufacturer recommends specifically not to store bulk L-tyrosine in a freezer. I really appreciate the mention in this thread of letting containers come to room temperature when removed from the cold.
I am posting this awfully long and tangential post both to share the ideas and to also run them by some far more experienced individuals, hopefully some of whom may have some experience specifically with honey as an excipient.
It seems like it would be simple and without complication to add more honey to a stored preparation- eliminating all that room for ambient air to occupy, using plain honey would reduce the potency/concentration, but that can be addressed.
Ages ago a distant friend told me about layering dried mycological sacraments intermittently between layers of honey in a mason jar and forgetting about it in a good cool dark place for a year, there being apparently some advantage to this method. I haven't tried that with mushrooms but i am currently trying it with yerba matte and just now i'm thinking about trying it with salvia divinorum.
There's a list I have of other things I've been wondering about during this amateur scientific quest in the whys and hows of chemical degradation. I recall reading an unanswered post about the reference to glass as a semi-permeable liquid, and also in another previous info google quest I came across some forum discussion somewhere about the having to use a different chemical lacking the psychological effects profile of Delysid in the training of canine search dogs to aromatically detect it. For obvious reasons, lol. In that discussion I think I came across mention of multiple layers of corrugated plastic being the most hermetically contained material, at least when containing as much trace of aroma as possible is concerned. With the general lean towards amber glass in this thread it seems interesting to just through that out there.
and what about steel? aluminum? versus plastic, glass? Rubber? Cork? - as stoppers for containers? what is in oxygen absorbing packets?
can desiccants mess up an ethanol solution/tincture over time? Can those little desiccant packets actually desorb moisture into their environment if not fully recharged?- of course, this depends on things like what their environment is in comparison, there having to be a difference, which kind of reminds of electrical voltage... what do desiccants actually absorb, water only?, what about ethanol vapor etc...? and even more beyond the specific scope of this threads topic, what about the chemical degradation of plastics and rubber themselves? Is there a way to revive a cracked and dried out rubber band? How does one preserve plastics, and is there a way to postmarketedly reduce the brittleness of the more brittle plastic mixtures? oh my goodness. there's no end in sight to wonder. I think I'll wrap it up about now, with everything covered that I set out to post, so far. if necessary I can strain the specific questions out of this peaceful ranting, but later. my legs hurt and it's ergonomic recognition time.
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edibleresplendance
Greenlighter
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- May 31, 2009
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whoa- sorry- that's huge scary looking block of text huh? i do what i do though, what else can i do?! and the post just before it reminded me of my other questional topic/direction. How much can various things absorb into plastic? how stuck can they get? in relation to mold, bacteria, food, cleaning chemicals, i'm not expecting an answer here, but i don't mind if anyone happens to share any expertise on the subject.
In this thread specifically, would there be any point to doing anything more than washing out a used solution/tincture vial made out of plastic? like after washing it out, practically eating the plastic after it's been snipped into bits? is there still active ingredient bound in the plastic chains? I suppose it depends on what plastic, and what contents and what overall cumulative conditions etc.. there is no end to detail it seems. maybe.
some other thoughts, of the wishful thinking sort, at least currently. asthma inhalers? saw a csi tv show feature an adulterated version of an albuterol inhaler. still haven't been able to find out whether that's real yet? Nebulization though. it's pretty effective, and the industry producing nicely packaged units of all manner of pharmaceuticals surely has taken a pretty thorough and no joke approach to the topic of this thread. micro encapsulation? sealing molecules singly at a time? The answers and possibilities are out there. and sometimes waay out there
In this thread specifically, would there be any point to doing anything more than washing out a used solution/tincture vial made out of plastic? like after washing it out, practically eating the plastic after it's been snipped into bits? is there still active ingredient bound in the plastic chains? I suppose it depends on what plastic, and what contents and what overall cumulative conditions etc.. there is no end to detail it seems. maybe.
some other thoughts, of the wishful thinking sort, at least currently. asthma inhalers? saw a csi tv show feature an adulterated version of an albuterol inhaler. still haven't been able to find out whether that's real yet? Nebulization though. it's pretty effective, and the industry producing nicely packaged units of all manner of pharmaceuticals surely has taken a pretty thorough and no joke approach to the topic of this thread. micro encapsulation? sealing molecules singly at a time? The answers and possibilities are out there. and sometimes waay out there
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Thatmdmahead
Bluelighter
I'm sure that you could test for trace amounts of anything after it came in contact with plastic, but I think this happens on such a small scale that it wouldn't really matter anyway. Plastic vials are very inexpensive and storage solutions tend to be relatively easy to come by when your chem is relatively stable.... I cant see how any of this would occur on a large enough scale to pose a health threat if that is what you are getting at.....
edibleresplendance
Greenlighter
- Joined
- May 31, 2009
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not sure what I'm getting at other than pure indulgence of a fascination with examining the physics of the world and the scientific ways of thinking about those physics that I have been exposed to. My reference to food residue and mold etc. is not really out of any health concern. More out of just pure fascination and curiosity. I think it may have application to reuse of containers, and the cleaning of them. Not to mention I'm wondering if it would be a bad idea to bring back inside all the paper that I stained with rather black moldy raspberries now that it's dried up in the sun a day or two? Realistically, it probably wouldn't be noticeable, but I wonder if there's still living mold spores in the paper.
Another application of my interest regarding viable microbial traces in plastics is if there could be a risk of rotting or other accelerated deterioration if plastic and coated foil ( chip bag type material combo) food packaging was used for various ink, paint, and pencil laden paper, and photographic document archiving. Water and uv protection is partly what I'm thinking about there, but what I need to find out more about, and have had some difficulty in either using the correct search terms or in finding online publications regarding is any and all other physical document archival considerations, for long term preservation, besides uv light and water.
Long term food storage is another application where the reuse of containers etc. could be concerned, but I haven't even started wondering about that yet.
Specifically regarding comparison of amber glass and foil, and other electromagnetic blocking materials, I've noticed lighter and darker amber glasses, and I think I came across mention of blue and violet coloured glass, all of which can still be seen through, and cardboard or solid aluminum foil seems a lot more opaque. Is the amber glass designed to specifically block out a certain portion of the em spectrum? Is that all that's really necessary, with total opacity being overkill? Maybe with exception to heat radiation?
And I've always wondered if setting a glass with a couple grams of vitamin c in front of the computer monitor or wireless router has even a minute effect on the chemical degradation. I'm not worried about irradiating away my nutritional supplements, just curious about everything... For that matter, I also have wondered if the super-minuscule increase in frictionally generated heat resulting from shaking a sample could be measured. out of this world ridiculous! But could it be measured? And the thing is most of these things are probably published, somewhere. It's a mindnumbing process dragging the answers to these simple questions out of a web-based search engine by myself, and I can sit glued to a screen wading through all the unrelated search results for only so long at a time.
Another application of my interest regarding viable microbial traces in plastics is if there could be a risk of rotting or other accelerated deterioration if plastic and coated foil ( chip bag type material combo) food packaging was used for various ink, paint, and pencil laden paper, and photographic document archiving. Water and uv protection is partly what I'm thinking about there, but what I need to find out more about, and have had some difficulty in either using the correct search terms or in finding online publications regarding is any and all other physical document archival considerations, for long term preservation, besides uv light and water.
Long term food storage is another application where the reuse of containers etc. could be concerned, but I haven't even started wondering about that yet.
Specifically regarding comparison of amber glass and foil, and other electromagnetic blocking materials, I've noticed lighter and darker amber glasses, and I think I came across mention of blue and violet coloured glass, all of which can still be seen through, and cardboard or solid aluminum foil seems a lot more opaque. Is the amber glass designed to specifically block out a certain portion of the em spectrum? Is that all that's really necessary, with total opacity being overkill? Maybe with exception to heat radiation?
And I've always wondered if setting a glass with a couple grams of vitamin c in front of the computer monitor or wireless router has even a minute effect on the chemical degradation. I'm not worried about irradiating away my nutritional supplements, just curious about everything... For that matter, I also have wondered if the super-minuscule increase in frictionally generated heat resulting from shaking a sample could be measured. out of this world ridiculous! But could it be measured? And the thing is most of these things are probably published, somewhere. It's a mindnumbing process dragging the answers to these simple questions out of a web-based search engine by myself, and I can sit glued to a screen wading through all the unrelated search results for only so long at a time.
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RigaCrypto
Bluelighter
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Some people on the Shroomery reported good results storing shrooms in honey for years. But why would it be better than another solutions? Given the large variety of organic substances it contains it may be less inert than others.
edibleresplendance
Greenlighter
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It would be better because it's exotic and delicious. also as I said up in that big post "...the unique advantage of the sticky tendency to remain consolidated and visible..."
meaning it stays more where it is, and it's much easier to see it, whether that matters I have no idea.
Now about being less inert, that's the word I hadn't thought of that may be what I'm trying to find out more about. Which is more of a concern regarding a fragile potent ethanol based solution of ALD: being slightly less inert, or having a vial with 50+ % trapped ambient air stuck with an ethanol solution? or is watercolour paper sealed basically at the surface with an inert material and etc just better than liquid mediums? Or, what beside geltab and microdot formulation, has proven to preserve such a chemical best, postponing degradation into the byproduct the longest? could drying such a solution on aniracetam or piracetam or centrophenoxine or some mixture of those really potent antioxidants be effective in preserving ALD?
meaning it stays more where it is, and it's much easier to see it, whether that matters I have no idea.
Now about being less inert, that's the word I hadn't thought of that may be what I'm trying to find out more about. Which is more of a concern regarding a fragile potent ethanol based solution of ALD: being slightly less inert, or having a vial with 50+ % trapped ambient air stuck with an ethanol solution? or is watercolour paper sealed basically at the surface with an inert material and etc just better than liquid mediums? Or, what beside geltab and microdot formulation, has proven to preserve such a chemical best, postponing degradation into the byproduct the longest? could drying such a solution on aniracetam or piracetam or centrophenoxine or some mixture of those really potent antioxidants be effective in preserving ALD?
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RigaCrypto
Bluelighter
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- Sep 20, 2006
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And if you use honey it won't empty out as you use it?
Here's an idea: if you have a water solution of a substance, find a liquid that doesn't mix with water (eg. oil) and find if that substance too is not soluble in it and does not react with it. Then you would have an oxygen displacer that would not affect the concentration of the solution.
PS. You said you have ALD-52? :D
Here's an idea: if you have a water solution of a substance, find a liquid that doesn't mix with water (eg. oil) and find if that substance too is not soluble in it and does not react with it. Then you would have an oxygen displacer that would not affect the concentration of the solution.
PS. You said you have ALD-52? :D
edibleresplendance
Greenlighter
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it's supernatural honey lol!
No. I did not say anything like that, I'm just trying to get an idea, rather, a specific and detailed number of ideas concerning a whole host of questions I have posted, with many specific applications being used to hopefully illustrate the physics of the chemistry of chemical degradation involved. I can bullet a list of my questions if that would be helpful, after I let the ideas sit a while.
Eventually I will come to a point in understanding where I will need to focus on specific and various chemical reactions per stored material, and I welcome that. Perhaps I can even see a chart of materials by purposes by characteristics ( containers, excipients, stored materials, other materials that may get mixed in or created through whatever means, and each of these categories' items' features or effects) designed for a comparison. No doubt such charts probably have been made somewhere, but I have yet to come across any such thing. (proprietary? The library?)
Many of these questions might be more suited for a physics forum, but I've got to start somewhere. And this thread has so far been the most sensible place I've yet come across to do that!
Also yesterday I was wondering about the possible advantages of using materials other than just air, maybe other gases or stuff I've never heard of, in the compartments of corrugated plastic or other insulation designs( not that I could do that at home,) as I was wrapping pills in plastic then foil followed by the brilliant glad brand press'n'seal space age seran wrap ( love this stuff, it's tricky to work with but incredibly reusable and useful if care is taken.)
I read somewhere about the ideal arrangement for maximizing foil's heat insulation properties via utilization of contact with trapped air pockets ( same idea with walls stuffed with insulation, and coolers, and of course a thermos or simple Styrofoam cup or coffee mug.) I usually use various sized containers nested within each other and each wrapped intermittently with copious and seemingly rather highly heat reflective leftover plastic industrial food and product packaging layered with all kinds of random foil packaging. I would like to be able to test my methods, and see whether or rather how much I'm going overboard and wasting my time having the "Christmas morning" every time I refill the frequent access storage from the Long term bulk storage. I realize it's not necessary, but I also try to maintain a few years or more worth of supply, and depending on usage rates, some products may not be used up for a pretty long time. Until I see the nitty gritty math to my satisfaction and understanding, I'd rather err on the meticulous side.
Also, I have heard and been yet unable to find specific verification or refutation for a street myth, that freezing solutions, especially or maybe only in water, can affect, destroy or change crystalline structure or formation. I don't know about that yet, but I have certainly noticed a difference with some things when consumed frozen, cold and room temperature.
So far it seems to be a consistent difference in effect, although how much of it is mental or other factors I'm still determining. What seems to be consistent, and matches with a friend who drank a shot of quite pungent Ayurvedic tea daily, after intentionally letting it come from around 38 degrees F to room temp, is that some of the more potent nootropics like phenylpiracetam seem to work way better when they've been at room temperature for a few days.
No. I did not say anything like that, I'm just trying to get an idea, rather, a specific and detailed number of ideas concerning a whole host of questions I have posted, with many specific applications being used to hopefully illustrate the physics of the chemistry of chemical degradation involved. I can bullet a list of my questions if that would be helpful, after I let the ideas sit a while.
Eventually I will come to a point in understanding where I will need to focus on specific and various chemical reactions per stored material, and I welcome that. Perhaps I can even see a chart of materials by purposes by characteristics ( containers, excipients, stored materials, other materials that may get mixed in or created through whatever means, and each of these categories' items' features or effects) designed for a comparison. No doubt such charts probably have been made somewhere, but I have yet to come across any such thing. (proprietary? The library?)
Many of these questions might be more suited for a physics forum, but I've got to start somewhere. And this thread has so far been the most sensible place I've yet come across to do that!
Also yesterday I was wondering about the possible advantages of using materials other than just air, maybe other gases or stuff I've never heard of, in the compartments of corrugated plastic or other insulation designs( not that I could do that at home,) as I was wrapping pills in plastic then foil followed by the brilliant glad brand press'n'seal space age seran wrap ( love this stuff, it's tricky to work with but incredibly reusable and useful if care is taken.)
I read somewhere about the ideal arrangement for maximizing foil's heat insulation properties via utilization of contact with trapped air pockets ( same idea with walls stuffed with insulation, and coolers, and of course a thermos or simple Styrofoam cup or coffee mug.) I usually use various sized containers nested within each other and each wrapped intermittently with copious and seemingly rather highly heat reflective leftover plastic industrial food and product packaging layered with all kinds of random foil packaging. I would like to be able to test my methods, and see whether or rather how much I'm going overboard and wasting my time having the "Christmas morning" every time I refill the frequent access storage from the Long term bulk storage. I realize it's not necessary, but I also try to maintain a few years or more worth of supply, and depending on usage rates, some products may not be used up for a pretty long time. Until I see the nitty gritty math to my satisfaction and understanding, I'd rather err on the meticulous side.
Also, I have heard and been yet unable to find specific verification or refutation for a street myth, that freezing solutions, especially or maybe only in water, can affect, destroy or change crystalline structure or formation. I don't know about that yet, but I have certainly noticed a difference with some things when consumed frozen, cold and room temperature.
So far it seems to be a consistent difference in effect, although how much of it is mental or other factors I'm still determining. What seems to be consistent, and matches with a friend who drank a shot of quite pungent Ayurvedic tea daily, after intentionally letting it come from around 38 degrees F to room temp, is that some of the more potent nootropics like phenylpiracetam seem to work way better when they've been at room temperature for a few days.
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RigaCrypto
Bluelighter
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- Sep 20, 2006
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- 446
Wow, you are either stocking up on chems for retirement or really anal. Afaik a general rule is that reaction (and degradation) rates double with each 10 degrees Kelvin or Celsius.
I've kept about 10 PEA's, tryptamines and amphetamines for 2.5 years now with no potency loss at room temperature. According to this rule, If I keep them in the freezer, they would be good for at least 40 years.
And thermal insulation is moot for long term storage, at best you can use it if you carry something with you in the summer.
Piracetam afaik has a shelf life of several years at RT.
Also, plastic, especially thin foil, may be permeable to gases.
Generally storage is not such a complicated science. Just keep it sealed from air and humidity and as cold as possible. And if you have a solution you want to store long term, you can evaporate it and rehydrate it later.
The only substances I can think of for which degradation is a real problem are lysergides and some of the WIN and CP cannabinoids. For most of the rest, if you follow the basic storage procedures, you don't have to worry.
I've kept about 10 PEA's, tryptamines and amphetamines for 2.5 years now with no potency loss at room temperature. According to this rule, If I keep them in the freezer, they would be good for at least 40 years.
And thermal insulation is moot for long term storage, at best you can use it if you carry something with you in the summer.
Piracetam afaik has a shelf life of several years at RT.
Also, plastic, especially thin foil, may be permeable to gases.
Generally storage is not such a complicated science. Just keep it sealed from air and humidity and as cold as possible. And if you have a solution you want to store long term, you can evaporate it and rehydrate it later.
The only substances I can think of for which degradation is a real problem are lysergides and some of the WIN and CP cannabinoids. For most of the rest, if you follow the basic storage procedures, you don't have to worry.
Last edited:
RigaCrypto
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2006
- Messages
- 446
Safe to store ketamine in alcohol?
Sorry to start a thread just for this but I need an answer sooner rather than later. If I get an answer you can delete or merge it.
I've searched and I only found chemical abstracts stating that ketamine is soluble 1:14 in ethanol, but I don't know whether that means it's also safe to store it. I guess there isn't reason it wouldn't be, but just to make sure:
Would the ketamine react or degrade faster in an ethanol solution?
Sorry to start a thread just for this but I need an answer sooner rather than later. If I get an answer you can delete or merge it.
I've searched and I only found chemical abstracts stating that ketamine is soluble 1:14 in ethanol, but I don't know whether that means it's also safe to store it. I guess there isn't reason it wouldn't be, but just to make sure:
Would the ketamine react or degrade faster in an ethanol solution?
edibleresplendance
Greenlighter
- Joined
- May 31, 2009
- Messages
- 7
Just Udeas, Ideas, rather. Take them or leave them
I plan to edit this post later. However, moments ago it struck me as a crying shame not to add this following bit any later then immediately. Or sooner if possible...
Seriously though, This excerpt from a bee keeping website struck me as vital. But implementation has been a puzzler. swallowing a frozen chunk of honey seems a waste, not even of money as much as just plain sweet raw honey's whole joyous taste. It's not stumbled upon me yet, but through staring around, I'm workin' on it. May not look like it, but that eureka-second'll hit and then I'll have clue as to what is just right for the task at hand.
How to Freeze Honey
w.ehow.com/how_4514213_freeze-honey.html[/url]
1.
Step 1
Divide the honey into small, single portion amounts. Since the whole idea of freezing honey is to make it last as long as possible, freezing the entire bottle and having to thaw all of it each time you want to use it is pointless.
2.
Step 2
Make sure the honey is frozen in a sealed container. This will prevent the honey from tipping over and leaking all over your freezer. Many people recommend using glass containers to freeze your honey as plastic ones can subtly affect the flavor of the honey.
3.
Step 3
Place a label that has the date you froze the honey neatly printed on it. Knowing exactly when you froze the honey will let you know which container of honey you will have to use first.
4.
Step 4
Don't remove the honey from the freezer until you are ready to use it. Give the honey plenty of time to thaw.
Honey has to be stored properly to maintain quality. Always store honey in a closed container, in a dry location, at room temperature--about 70-75 degrees. Honey tends to absorb moisture, which can lower its quality. The higher the temperature at which honey is stored, the more likely it is to be damaged. During storage, honey gradually becomes a darker color and changes flavor and composition. Differences can be seen in less than one year. For longer-term storage, freeze honey in the freezer. Freezing stops such changes almost completely and preserves all the natural goodness of the honey.
Do not store honey in the refrigerator. Refrigerator temperatures cause honey to crystallize very quickly. If the honey crystallizes, remove the lid and place the jar in warm water until the crystals dissolve. You can also dissolve the crystals by heating the honey in the microwave. Be careful not to burn or scorch the honey.
Source: The University of Illinois Extension Service[w.preparedpantry.com/storinghoneytherightway.aspx[/url]
somewhere else i read in the context of general food storage in the freezer, mention of freezing and refreezing quickly, to avoid the slow jarring growth of crystals, water crystals to be specific. That seemed a curious thought. but without more in depth familiarity, it's just a curious thing.
and what about ultra black, super black? and not long after that thought a few weeks ago, I encountered a black coated interior of a manufacturer's pharmaceutical bottle, and recently I noticed the interior of a large glostick package was also black coloured. beyond that thought, I've found an enormous wealth of new search terms and resoures to work through. who would've thought there's actually books on the subject! I was like, wow. this is gonna take a while.:D totally kidding.
and other things, so far oxiracetam is so super sweet it worries me about the teeth. a vial of half clear honey and the bottom half having a settlement of loosely( as much as can be in honey) loftily suspended oxiracetam crystals may be way too much honey, but it seems that something has seeped into or infused into the otherwise clear honey at the top, yet with no visibly suspended oxiracetam. I definitely am fascinated with what happened with the yerba honey mate. it steeped. creating a perfect, beyond perfect bombilla. ain't no steel-filtered straw either. it's straight edible. how perfect does it get? I couldn't believe how fortuitous and serendipitous that is. For eating straight no less.
aniracetam i mixed to a super thick super potent paste. straight white chunky goo. a dab''l do ya for sure. careful with that stuff, unless you are covered with l-huperzine and acetyl-choline kinda stuff. It works phenomenally though. There's years worth of variations to experiment with though.
now what of these unfamiliar cannabinoids you mentioned. This is something I would like to read more about. eventually I'll get to searching about it or stumbling on it, but not yet...
and then, of course, what about intentional cross-transflavouring? Or, the intentional storage conditions to cross the flavours of foods otherwise eaten separately? I have noticed this even with cigarettes in purses occasionally too, (on a hot day in a car-like.) All I'm saying is I bet it could be nice. One of a kind for sure. if only, Imagine that spaghetti or whatever. totally unrelated. aerosolizing and redepositing in the cold and the dark ideally?
july 28th 2009 edit. i'd like to add a tiny update on my experiment with honey. I'm noticing that when the honey is kinda dry, and when your what/honey mixture is concentrated enough to be a semisolid paste- to the point that it's not 'externally' sticky anymore, it is a breeze to work with, including dropping onto a scale for weighing. and it's no problem getting the clump back off the scale, and pretty much no significant residue is left behind on the scale, fingers or whatever. I suspect though that this nonsticky effect is resulting mostly from the Hydroxyethyl cellulose (sic-i'll look up the actual stuff later) and the MCC (microcrystalline cellulose) contained in the products I've mixed, rather than from the concentration itself. So far I'm quite pleased with the honey as consuming/storage etc. solution, although the recent post #340 mentions the tip about tryptamines degrading in liquid faster, and I wonder why? For whatever reason though, I think that means that wet honey is better for storing and using something near term, rather than forty years+ storage. However, I wonder about honey drying out, and if that may be beneficial for long term tryptamine storage. how different from a sugarcube is it? certainly less exposure to air... perhaps eventually in the other appropriate threads I'll report on the vastly interesting effects profiles of the various mixtures I've suggested and suggest again strongly here.
also it appears that indeed the oxiracetam crystals ever so slowly dissolved into the honey now to the point that it's a rather homogeneous looking less clear, cloudy mixture.
happy storage exhausting everyone!
I plan to edit this post later. However, moments ago it struck me as a crying shame not to add this following bit any later then immediately. Or sooner if possible...
Seriously though, This excerpt from a bee keeping website struck me as vital. But implementation has been a puzzler. swallowing a frozen chunk of honey seems a waste, not even of money as much as just plain sweet raw honey's whole joyous taste. It's not stumbled upon me yet, but through staring around, I'm workin' on it. May not look like it, but that eureka-second'll hit and then I'll have clue as to what is just right for the task at hand.
How to Freeze Honey
w.ehow.com/how_4514213_freeze-honey.html[/url]
1.
Step 1
Divide the honey into small, single portion amounts. Since the whole idea of freezing honey is to make it last as long as possible, freezing the entire bottle and having to thaw all of it each time you want to use it is pointless.
2.
Step 2
Make sure the honey is frozen in a sealed container. This will prevent the honey from tipping over and leaking all over your freezer. Many people recommend using glass containers to freeze your honey as plastic ones can subtly affect the flavor of the honey.
3.
Step 3
Place a label that has the date you froze the honey neatly printed on it. Knowing exactly when you froze the honey will let you know which container of honey you will have to use first.
4.
Step 4
Don't remove the honey from the freezer until you are ready to use it. Give the honey plenty of time to thaw.
Honey has to be stored properly to maintain quality. Always store honey in a closed container, in a dry location, at room temperature--about 70-75 degrees. Honey tends to absorb moisture, which can lower its quality. The higher the temperature at which honey is stored, the more likely it is to be damaged. During storage, honey gradually becomes a darker color and changes flavor and composition. Differences can be seen in less than one year. For longer-term storage, freeze honey in the freezer. Freezing stops such changes almost completely and preserves all the natural goodness of the honey.
Do not store honey in the refrigerator. Refrigerator temperatures cause honey to crystallize very quickly. If the honey crystallizes, remove the lid and place the jar in warm water until the crystals dissolve. You can also dissolve the crystals by heating the honey in the microwave. Be careful not to burn or scorch the honey.
Source: The University of Illinois Extension Service[w.preparedpantry.com/storinghoneytherightway.aspx[/url]
somewhere else i read in the context of general food storage in the freezer, mention of freezing and refreezing quickly, to avoid the slow jarring growth of crystals, water crystals to be specific. That seemed a curious thought. but without more in depth familiarity, it's just a curious thing.
and what about ultra black, super black? and not long after that thought a few weeks ago, I encountered a black coated interior of a manufacturer's pharmaceutical bottle, and recently I noticed the interior of a large glostick package was also black coloured. beyond that thought, I've found an enormous wealth of new search terms and resoures to work through. who would've thought there's actually books on the subject! I was like, wow. this is gonna take a while.:D totally kidding.
and other things, so far oxiracetam is so super sweet it worries me about the teeth. a vial of half clear honey and the bottom half having a settlement of loosely( as much as can be in honey) loftily suspended oxiracetam crystals may be way too much honey, but it seems that something has seeped into or infused into the otherwise clear honey at the top, yet with no visibly suspended oxiracetam. I definitely am fascinated with what happened with the yerba honey mate. it steeped. creating a perfect, beyond perfect bombilla. ain't no steel-filtered straw either. it's straight edible. how perfect does it get? I couldn't believe how fortuitous and serendipitous that is. For eating straight no less.
aniracetam i mixed to a super thick super potent paste. straight white chunky goo. a dab''l do ya for sure. careful with that stuff, unless you are covered with l-huperzine and acetyl-choline kinda stuff. It works phenomenally though. There's years worth of variations to experiment with though.
now what of these unfamiliar cannabinoids you mentioned. This is something I would like to read more about. eventually I'll get to searching about it or stumbling on it, but not yet...
and then, of course, what about intentional cross-transflavouring? Or, the intentional storage conditions to cross the flavours of foods otherwise eaten separately? I have noticed this even with cigarettes in purses occasionally too, (on a hot day in a car-like.) All I'm saying is I bet it could be nice. One of a kind for sure. if only, Imagine that spaghetti or whatever. totally unrelated. aerosolizing and redepositing in the cold and the dark ideally?
july 28th 2009 edit. i'd like to add a tiny update on my experiment with honey. I'm noticing that when the honey is kinda dry, and when your what/honey mixture is concentrated enough to be a semisolid paste- to the point that it's not 'externally' sticky anymore, it is a breeze to work with, including dropping onto a scale for weighing. and it's no problem getting the clump back off the scale, and pretty much no significant residue is left behind on the scale, fingers or whatever. I suspect though that this nonsticky effect is resulting mostly from the Hydroxyethyl cellulose (sic-i'll look up the actual stuff later) and the MCC (microcrystalline cellulose) contained in the products I've mixed, rather than from the concentration itself. So far I'm quite pleased with the honey as consuming/storage etc. solution, although the recent post #340 mentions the tip about tryptamines degrading in liquid faster, and I wonder why? For whatever reason though, I think that means that wet honey is better for storing and using something near term, rather than forty years+ storage. However, I wonder about honey drying out, and if that may be beneficial for long term tryptamine storage. how different from a sugarcube is it? certainly less exposure to air... perhaps eventually in the other appropriate threads I'll report on the vastly interesting effects profiles of the various mixtures I've suggested and suggest again strongly here.
also it appears that indeed the oxiracetam crystals ever so slowly dissolved into the honey now to the point that it's a rather homogeneous looking less clear, cloudy mixture.
happy storage exhausting everyone!
Last edited:
I see no body has answered to this thread. How long are you planning to store this k?
No reason to dissolve it in a solution if it is under a few months. Personally, i found a lost bag of ket 4 months after i ran out. Still had the same potency i believe.
Was R-mix. Done the job. IMO it would degrade in an alcohol solution but im not a chemist.
No reason to dissolve it in a solution if it is under a few months. Personally, i found a lost bag of ket 4 months after i ran out. Still had the same potency i believe.
Was R-mix. Done the job. IMO it would degrade in an alcohol solution but im not a chemist.