The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread

[The Wizard]

So Hydergine is so quick acting that just taking it once a week still gives you discernable benefits? I get confused as to which nootropics and supplements one must be on for days, weeks for them to fully work versus ones that one can feel from a single dose. I wonder how Nicergoline and Bromcriptine compare to Hydergine effects wise.

With the Rhodiola a lot of people insist you need to use it consistently for days, weeks to reap the full benefits. What is your usual dosage with it? I’ve never gone above 2.5 or so grams at once. I’d have tried higher doses of it but my stash of it was low at the time. I’m wondering if higher doses would be a lot more powerful or if the effects beyond a certain dosage do not get any stronger. I’m yet to try Rhodiola with Opiates/Opioids/Kratom. I’ve wondered for a while if it would potentiate any of these since Rhodiola affects Opioid receptors. Rhodiola seems to be one of the safest plants when it comes to not having dangerous interactions with other drugs. And I’ve found Rhodiola to combine quite well and smoothly with psychedelics like HBW, MG, DXM. I wish I could find a more potent brand of Rhodiola. I like what I have but have a feeling there’s prob. much more potent brands out there. I bet whatever Rhodiola the KGB was giving their agents was much stronger.

You mention using L-Theanine for anxiety/stress relief but have you ever tried using high doses of Niacinamide or Taurine for this? Or perhaps try 4 or 5 grams of GABA sublingually (low doses orally don’t do shit). Ever heard of GABOB, Xorkoth? I keep hearing vendors mention it online as a GHB alternative but since this is vendors describing it of course they’ll make it sound like an attractive GHB alternative. I can barely find any firsthand accounts from GABOB users. I wonder how well Picamilon works for anxiety and stress relief. Bacopa, too, I wonder about for these purposes. Soon I want to try the 40% Kavalactone Kava paste and see how effective it is for relaxation. Can Ashwagandha also help for stress and anxiety relief? What about Pedicularis and Salvia miltiorrhiza?

Yerba Mate, Ginseng and Catuaba are on my list of energizing plants to experiment with. I’ve tried Ginseng before but only really weak store bought capsules. I want to find good, fresh Ginseng root and see what a few weeks of daily use does for me. I’ve tried Catuaba from 2 sources and it was so mild that I couldn’t really tell if I got anything from it. Based on how much positive information from Brazilians and from studies online is available on Catuaba bark, I assume it might be a quite healthy, life enhancing herbal stimulant. I’m assuming I just got my Catuaba from the wrong companies and need to find a source for good, fresh stuff. It’s a shame I can’t find ANYONE online who uses Catuaba and can tell me where to get it. Reports that Catuaba helps with fatigue, depression, anxiety, sexual dysfunction, infections really spark my interest in it. Supposedly it even helps the body fight HIV.

The way you praise Centrophenoxine I’ve def. got to try it, Xorkoth… You actually can use it daily and not build a high tolerance? I hated how quickly I built a tolerance to DMAE.

I wonder how some of these smart drugs would work rectally… I’m particularly curious how Hydergine would absorb rectally.

Lastly, I continue to ponder just how much potential could Piracetam, Hydergine and Deprenyl have for boosting certain psychedelics…

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hi, ergoloid mesylates (brandname hydergine) HEAVILY dilated my eyes (saucers!). It felt actually like a low dose of LSD. This was pure erg. mesylates. I've never used the hydergine tablets, so I can't compare potency differences (though my experience with piracetam in pure powder and tablets suggest that one at least is much more potent in powder form, dunno maybe they are skimping on the dose in the tablets or some gets rendered inactive with binders?).

I will add though that piracetam and DMAE both dilate my eyes too if I use large doses. I don't know, I guess my eyes dilate a lot (friends always comment that when I get super-excited my eyes will dilate). As far as I know this started 7 or so years ago after heavily abusing methamphetamine and MDMA (I dont remember it happening to me in high school, but then again high school for me was not a very euphoric period of my life).

 

[magic wedel]

I really wish we could list sources. I'm scared of buying Deprenyl form the wrong source.

 

[The Wizard]

Thankfully, Bluelight has the private message feature if you want to ask people about sources. What I was wondering is would it be smarter to order Deprenyl in liquid form from Mexico or tablet form from Europe. I've heard supposedly the liquid is stronger.

 

[magic wedel]

[Don't be so obvious ]

 

[The Wizard]

Wish SOMEONE out there knew where to get the tricyclic dopaminergic stimulant/antidepressant, Amineptine, for cheap. I can't for the life of me find any such person. If only Amineptine hadn't been abused in France maybe it wouldn't have a stigma and be banned in so many countries.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yes, I take them daily with occasional breaks. I am quite happy with that regimen. I feel sharper than I ever have before. It's not so much that I feel smarter, but that I feel more optimized, like there's no times when I feel overwhelmed by a mental task. It's like my brain is always operating at peak efficiency without much effort on my part.

As for "natural" versus synthesized, I think that's a notion that is a bit shortsighted. There are many naturally-produced things which are deadly and/or damaging to the brain and/or body. And people tend to forget that naturally produced chemicals are still produced through chemical reactions... plants and animals are little factories for chemicals. Psychoactive chemicals are usually (always?) produced as defense mechanisms for the organism, too, not out of the goodness of mother nature so that we can have a safe source of mind alteration. This is why I think it's silly of people to only ingest substances produced by plants. Why couldn't we develop something more specific and effective than a plant which developed something as a defense mechanism against being eaten? Why does human-synthesized need to mean something negative whereas plant synthesized means it's perfectly safe and fine?

For what it's worth, mushrooms are my favorite psychedelic. But I just so often see this bias against anything man-made and I think it's silly. Yes, it's good to be cautious. But it's also good to not blind yourself to possibilities.

 

[Xaratoostrah]

Why does human-synthesized need to mean something negative whereas plant synthesized means it's perfectly safe and fine?

Because for many people it feels good (read: its their opiate) to harbor a romantic ideation for nature.

That "Nature Knows Best",somehow misinterpreting evolution and how it works (if they know it more than a basic level) and forgeting all elements that wouldnt fit in such a romantic picture such as ricin,aconitine,snake poisons,botulinum toxin,epibatidine etc.

Another interesting,almost subconscious, proposed "mechanism of action" for such behaviours may be a displaced/misplaced "angst" for humans destroying the enviroment/nature or their inventions going awry and damaging enviroment. Some may feel as if their "kin" is "bad" towards "Benevolent Mother Nature" ,so someone has to be good and "respectfull"/"aknowledging" towards "Her". It ,still, feels good to be the member of the "evil kin" that has aknoweledged all the destruction caused by its "race" and has moved on to the "good side".

To wrap it up i would say its more of an emotional responce, in my book, rather a product of rational thought.

 

[Jamshyd]

Well, I finally have some Piracetam.

This shit tastes like toxic waste. How the hell does one consume it? I even tried rectally but the ammount of liquid required is ungodly.

I tried 3g for my first dose, only to discover that this was unnecessary, and all I got was a headache and a rekindling of codeine withdrawal that I have just finished dealing with... BUT! I also got a motivational lift! And thats quite telling since I had a glass of wine with it, which probably dumbs down much of its effects.

 

[Jamshyd]

Nevermind... I think the Piracetam is already working to show me how dumb I was! I used a whole TABLEspoon instead of a TEAspoon. So my initial dose was probably 7g. Ugh.

I am astonished that, to date, I only had one mismeasurement incident with psychedelics (and it was the forgiving 2C-T-21).

Btw I also noticed improved memory recall - I remembered the name of a dog I met years ago whose name I tried to remember last week but could not.

So I guess my "stack" now is:

- About 3g Piracetam divided into two.
- 1g L-Theanine divided into several doses.
- An uncertain ammount of Nicotine (less than 21mg) delivered through patches.
- Miniral supplement with important rare things like chromium, selenium, zinc, and vanadium.

 

[spacefacethebassace]

^^Just FYI Jam, I've read somewhere that alcohol+piracetam may be a neurotoxic combination. My own experiences seem to corroborate this.

Something to do with the BBB and solubilities...

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah, I wouldn't try mixing any alcohol with it. Also I would move your doses of piracetam down closer to a gram each as you get used to it.

Also I am always puzzled by the people who think piracetam tastes terrible (which has been a number of people here). I mean it doesn't taste good, but I find it very tolerable. I can dumb the crystals on my tongue, swish it around with water until dissolved, and swallow, and it just leave s bit of a bitter aftertaste. It actually tastes a little bit sweet at first to me.

I wonder sometimes where people are getting their piracetam and whether there are impurities left over in some batches. Because I have honestly never found piracetam to taste very bad. It's a rather weak bitter flavor to me.

 

[Jamshyd]

^ Remember I was trying to wash down 7 GRAMS of this stuff, so yeah, I can see how 500mg would taste tolerable .

At this point, I know for sure it isn't working to its full potential, because I am still on my benzo tapering schedule and therefore have benzos in my system the whole time. I'm just happy that it seems to be reversing the negative effects of the benzos.

As for alcohol, it is generally a single glass of wine, but I'll try and see how it works without it. It certainly does block many of the effects of the alcohol, btw.

 

[hamhurricane]

^^Just FYI Jam, I've read somewhere that alcohol+piracetam may be a neurotoxic combination. My own experiences seem to corroborate this.

Something to do with the BBB and solubilities...

waait wait wait, i have heard the complete opposite. i read that it was neuroprotective when coadministered with alcohol

"Piracetam is believed to increase blood flow between the two hemispheres of the brain. It's also been reported to protect brain tissue from various physical and chemical abrasions such as alcohol damage."

not entirely relevant BUT...

Can nootropic drugs be effective against the impact of ethanol teratogenicity on cognitive performance?

In all nootropic treatment groups the percentage of ‘poor learners’ dropped to 28%. The positive effects of piracetam, aniracetam and meclophenoxate suggest that these drugs could be used for both treatment and prophylactic of FAE-connected disturbances of cognition.

but then

"it is recommended that alcohol be avoided as one of the reported effects of Piracetam is increased flow of blood to the brain which would increase damage and intoxication. "

(^^^ from lycaeum with no citation)

so i have seen no scientific evidence that the combination is dangerous and i know from personal experience it makes drinking much more enjoyable (not saying much) but i can also see intuitively how it could be dangerous.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^ Awesome post, thanks for talking with us

I personally am very busy at a thesis in philosophy and that is using every bit of my brain (this is ironic because I am working on a theory of the mind that has it 'spilling out', so to speak, into the environment).

I have noticed what I guess is overcholination with DMAE. My eyes get very dilated (saucers) and I become somewhat disoriented and giggly or anxious. It is not pleasant, but can sometimes be enjoyed as a bit of a rush of pleasure.

 

[psychedelicious]

I don't have any sources for my thoughts on alcohol's toxicity when combined by piracetam, but, as alcohol seems to be greatly (a single beer + piracetam = 3 or 4 beers without, for this dude, anyways) potentiated by piracetam, I would suspect there is more potential for increase toxicity. However, in my experience, many of the unpleasant effects of the sauce, including the hangover, are not present if one takes piracetam before drinking and again just before passing out.

 

[Pretty_Diamonds]

The Piracetam isn't working for me anymore! Or well at least, not as well as it did when I first started taking it. I lowered the dose to 500mgs twice a day.

*sigh* I'm sad...........=(

 

[The Wizard]

Today starts my 10th day on Hydergine. Xorkonth, you'd advise I stick to one whole 4.5 mg tablet each morning or split the tablet in half and take 2.25 mg in the morning and 2.25 mg in the afternoon? I wish this stuff was cheaper so that I could see how 9 or even 13.5 mg would treat me daily. How much more effective is Hydergine sublingually versus orally? Also, does it absorb well rectally or nasally? I've also been using 1.5-2 g of Piracetam once to twice a day the last few weeks. And starting last Thursday, I've been using 1-3 grams of Rhodiola a day (in 1 big dose or divided in 2 smaller ones). Also, a few times a week I take 200-350 mg of DMAE.

This weekend I plan to combine 2 different varieties of HBW (Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds) orally (I grind the seeds finely then pack them in capsules)and beforehand I'll preload on 3 or 4 grams of Piracetam and 9 mg of Hydergine. I'm hoping that nootropic combo will boost the HBW quite nicely. Also, the fact Hydergine is a vasodilator should help counteract the vasoconstricting side effect of HBW seeds.

So far from what I read looks like Piracetam, Hydergine and Deprenyl are the nootropics with the most hallucinogen potentiating potential.

 

[kong]

I haven't noticed any negative effects with mixing piracetam with alcohol. It might make it slightly more potent, but I haven't really noticed anything out of the ordinary.

I don't see how increased blood to the brain makes alcohol anymore toxic. More potent sure, but its the same drug either way. So long as the user isn't one of those types who measures enjoyment by the # of bud lights they drink, less alcohol will be drunk with piracetam than without, saving the liver and other organs the stress of the higher dose of alcohol normally required.

 

[Xorkoth]

The Piracetam isn't working for me anymore! Or well at least, not as well as it did when I first started taking it. I lowered the dose to 500mgs twice a day.

*sigh* I'm sad...........=(

Are you exercising your brain? Nootropics won't be noticed if you don't utilize them. The benefits can become less noticeable as you use it regularly because you start to consider the nootropic state to be your new baseline. This is why, as in WiLdLaSeR's excellent post above, it is important to always push yourself. Think about piracetam sort of like creatine for the brain. Creatine allows your muscles to work more smoothly and effectively and aids in muscle building. Piracetam has the same capability for the brain. But you have to exercise or else it's not going to really help you.

Today starts my 10th day on Hydergine. Xorkonth, you'd advise I stick to one whole 4.5 mg tablet each morning or split the tablet in half and take 2.25 mg in the morning and 2.25 mg in the afternoon? I wish this stuff was cheaper so that I could see how 9 or even 13.5 mg would treat me daily. How much more effective is Hydergine sublingually versus orally? Also, does it absorb well rectally or nasally? I've also been using 1.5-2 g of Piracetam once to twice a day the last few weeks. And starting last Thursday, I've been using 1-3 grams of Rhodiola a day (in 1 big dose or divided in 2 smaller ones). Also, a few times a week I take 200-350 mg of DMAE.

I usually take the whole dose in the morning but you might try splitting it up because that would ensure more uniform plasma levels throughout the day. I usually take my nootropics so they'll be in effect during the daytime because that's when I push my brain the most. As far as nasal or rectal administration, I have no idea... I've only tried it orally and sublingually.

And I sure wish it was cheaper also. :D

This weekend I plan to combine 2 different varieties of HBW (Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds) orally (I grind the seeds finely then pack them in capsules)and beforehand I'll preload on 3 or 4 grams of Piracetam and 9 mg of Hydergine. I'm hoping that nootropic combo will boost the HBW quite nicely. Also, the fact Hydergine is a vasodilator should help counteract the vasoconstricting side effect of HBW seeds.

Proceed with caution, but I am curious as to what your results will be. Personally I am not sure I will try to potentiate psychedelics with nootropics anymore, especially since my tolerance is no longer high (I assume at least, I haven't tested this out), just because it seems to unpredictable. But I am interested in there being more data on the subject. Just please be careful.