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The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread

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Xorkoth said:
Perhaps I rely too much on intuition, but something about the nootropics I take feels extremely healthy to me. I haven't noticed a single negative effect from any of the ones I still take. They just seem harmless to me. Perhaps, though, it would be a good idea to take some extended breaks here and there, at least until more definitive research is done.

I'm going to stick with my stack:

4.5 mg Hydergine
1000 mg Piracetam
100 mg Centrophenoxine (any more than 150 mg makes my thinking cloudy)
1 cup coffee
and the occasional 2-3 mg MDPV

The only worry I have at this point is that my BP seems to be a little high. I'm afraid the coffee + piracetam + stress is affecting it. Hydergine helps keep it down actually.

As for the idebenone, I will only take it in conjunction with a pro-oxidant ... phenethylamines or amphetamines. The risk to benefit for a powerful antioxidant is just not good enough. You obviously won't feel any negative effects from it, but you won't feel any positive effects either. No need to take it regularly if has no noticable positive effects and has not been shown to be safe.
 
Point taken. I think I'm going to cut the idebenone out for a week and see if I notice a difference, and then decide whether or not to continue taking it regularly or just for certain situations.
 
I have so much damn supplements and nootropics.

I take green tea extract, alcar, oxiracetam, alpha-gpc every week day, the combination of green tea and alcar tends to cause me to sleep very little so I don't take it on the weekend.

I never take anti ox supplements around times of cell stress (exercise... drug use) as it seems to do more harm than good in most tests.

I will take Idebenone to try and help recover from abuse of mdma and other nurotoxic times, but as I said above I avoid anti ox while the damage is happening. Idebenone is supposed to increase NGF in the brain.

I find *racetams make mdma great and make 2cb suck.

I use selegeline as when I get sad and unmotivated. Never ever mix this within a month of any 2c-* unless you are in for a +4 a little on the "what the fuck" side... (personal experience and notes from erowid)

Phenibut is good for sleep time, and good for any time you might otherwise drink. I don't drink, so it's nice to have an alternative.

2c-d and lsd. In low doses seem to improve my memory. (I don't find my self asking people what I just said to them a few secconds ago).

A low carb diet keeps me happy and focused at work, I work on the idea of low/high carb splits between days, every day is high in protein, EFA's and fibre and containing no suger, and moderate amounts on low gi carbs or no carbs (besides fibre and trace amounts in green vegies). One of the best nootropics right there... For me anyway.
 
nelix said:
I take green tea extract,

I never take anti ox supplements around times of cell stress (exercise... drug use) as it seems to do more harm than good in most tests.

i drink green tea :)

But, more to the point, why is it that antioxidants are damaging? can you point me to any studies that confirm this? I thought specifically at times of high stress or oxidising drug use or heavy exercise it was beneficial to use them.

I do know that too much of a good thing is not good. Vit. C is great for soaring energy/wellbeing levels at dosages of up to a few grams (depends on person I guess) but any more and energy/wellbeing levels will slump again.
 
Yes please elaborate on antioxidant damaage. I personally keep it quite simple as an athlete more than a psychonaut:
2 multi vitamins
1 b complex
20 grams of whey protein (not a notropic but trust me its well worth it, healthy body = healthy mind)

When I drink I also dose 300 -500 mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid about an hour before getting trashy. I helps significantly.
 
I can't refer to any studies directly right now, but it's just always what I have read, anti ox are a preventative measure and not a treatment, I know there was a major study that was focused on by many news sites/shows/papers speaking of a large study where anti ox in sick people incressed mortality by 5%.

I also read that Q10 should not be used around exercise or in large doses (and similar things for ALA).

If anyone more knowing on the subject could provide some sources and further reading in ether direction I would love to hear it.
 
theWorldWithin said:
Yes please elaborate on antioxidant damaage. I personally keep it quite simple as an athlete more than a psychonaut:
2 multi vitamins
1 b complex
20 grams of whey protein (not a notropic but trust me its well worth it, healthy body = healthy mind)

When I drink I also dose 300 -500 mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid about an hour before getting trashy. I helps significantly.

Throw in 2-3 grams of creatine once in awhile and you have a good body stack. I have a suspicion creatine is semi-nootropic. I don't know what it is, but when I take it my body definitely feels more 'tight' and workable and this is reflected in my mind. Same with whey protein (you can make such delicious smoothies out of this for midmorning snack!).

Healthy body, healthy mind, indeed! =D
 
Yeah I was considering that actually but I worry about the water retention issue. I am a swimmer and being interupted in the middle of a distance set to piss every 25 minutes is no good. Do you find that during workouts your urinate more often after using creatine regularly? Or is the water retention only in the muscles?
 
I was using Hydergine for 3 days before tripping on cactii, and I had one of the strongest trip of my life! So many emotional deepening but weirdly not much visuals! On the other hand piracetam and pramiracetam enhances the visuals like crazy (tried with cactiii and lsd) but unfortunately I don't like them. Somehow I believe that piracetam somehow makes it difficult to work on emotional deepening when you are on indole-psychedelics. I feel like it centers you so much that you cannot find new paths to yourself. But some people may have different experiences. I would like to hear about those experiences.
 
theWorldWithin said:
Yeah I was considering that actually but I worry about the water retention issue. I am a swimmer and being interupted in the middle of a distance set to piss every 25 minutes is no good. Do you find that during workouts your urinate more often after using creatine regularly? Or is the water retention only in the muscles?

There is minimal water retention with 2-3g's of creatine. You run into problems with water retention when dosing 5+ grams.

There are mixed results for endurance sports. And, I don't know how I would feel using it if I was competing (is that moral etc?).

But, for personal use its great. It makes my muscles feel 'ready' and since I don't eat so much meat it makes up for some deficiency.

Peace.
 
Based on comments here (and the lucky timing - I just ran out), I'm going to stop taking 5-HTP. I take a multivitamin with 6mg (300% dv) of B-6.

I'm going to replace lecithin with centrophenoxine soon. For now, I think that's the only addition; I've also gotta restock on phenibut, and I don't want to break the bank!
 
Yeah, I was never a big fan of 5-HTP. Something about it feels off to me. Plus, perhaps because I'm not depressed, it actually makes me feel less good than I did before taking it. When I was depressed, St. John's Wort worked better.

I do like to take it before and after some drugs, like amphetamines and MDMA. But I don't take MDMA anymore, nor really amphetamines (other than the DOXs which do not leave the same setotonin-deficient feeling at all for me), so I ran out and haven't bought more in months.
 
I have recently started taking piracetam and lecithin and have found the results beneficial. I no longer need any dopaminergic stimulants to help me concentrate.
 
i started piracetam @ 800mg/day in the morning for the last week. so far i'm not noticing any results.

quick question to those of you who use this stuff daily:
are you concerned at all by the fact that it's unregulated (at least in the US from what i understand)? it's a lot of material/dose and it's pretty cheap. i'm wondering this while i look at my generic bottle w stick-on label.
 
Try a heavier dose tomorrow, perhaps 2400mg or even 3200mg. This is called an attack dose and is often needed to lock you in to the effects. After that you can resume 800mg daily (or two times a day) dose.

I've been taking it daily for 6 months now. I definitely notice when I take it. Its quite the little rush (dopamine). I take a gram or so a day with about 250mg of DMAE, but I've gone through 800 grams in the last 6 months so I know I've been taking more than that for long periods of time (sometimes 7-8 grams a day).
 
^The attack dose is definitely helps. My first experience with nootropics was an attack dose of Piracetam and a single tablet of hydergine. It was quite noticeable, I was really smart :) After the attack dose I could notice the effect from a single pill. I feel the effects as a slight tingling in the frontal lobes, which is the increased alpha wave production that piracetam has been shown to cause in that region of the brain.

In most circumstances increased alpha wave production and increased activity in the frontal lobes are perceived as beneficial.
---------

Lately my nootropic of choice is EEG biofeedback. It also can be a bit like a drug. There is a nice feeling of inner peace when both sides of the brain are at the same frequency (cross-hemispheric coherence).

By increasing alpha wave production there is an altered state a bit like cannabis (which increases alpha wave production, which is why it is used by creative types). Alpha could also be correlated with the subconscious mind. I'm sure most people are familiar with the "alpha state" or "alpha thinking".

Increasing theta waves can facilitate trance and visionary states and can be felt in the body as a buzzing or tingling sensation. Things also brighten up internally. Flashes of insight are also associated with theta waves. A pulse of theta waves can be seen as blue light in the field of vision. This is the meaning of the expression "it came to me out of the blue". Theta could be correlated with the collective unconscious (the wavelength is longer so it permeates further, think of bass in a car etc). Childhood is spent in the theta state, as the theta waves go so does the 'magic'.

Delta is largely ignored for most practical applications and is usually only present in significant amounts during deep sleep in the 'normal' individual. States of oneness with the Universe, Samadhi etc involve delta waves, but there must be a bridge between the theta region to the alpha region for there to be any consciousness of the state. People with with high delta in the waking state often have unique abilities. One of the leading neurofeedback researchers Dr. James Hardt, talks about people with high waking delta being able to influence others and "change reality" (his words not mine). As you can probably guess by now, delta could also be correlated with Universal consciousness. Coincidentally, this is the state we are born in, a babies brainwaves are mostly between 0-2cps.

Increasing gamma-waves (the hottest new thing in EEG research) can give a state of awareness a bit like psychedelics, there is a vision change where everything starts look gold and pulses of energy can be seen (in my experience). Frontal lobe gamma is correlated with states of 'enlightenment' and studies with Tibetan monks showed that the higher a students baseline and meditative gamma, the more advanced they were considered by the teacher. It makes sense that higher frequencies would be associated with higher states of consciousness. There isn't any research on psychedelics and gamma waves that I'm aware of, but I think psychedelics also increase gamma.

Beta waves are where we spend most of our adult waking life. This is the alert state that our caffeinated world revolves around. Training to increase these frequencies can make one more alert, but training to decrease them is much more interesting. For example, a tone plays when your beta is below a certain threshold and stops when your beta increases, one thing you notice quickly is that when your internal dialogue is active, so is your beta. As soon as you say something in your head the tone goes off and you can train yourself to quiet your mind more quickly than without using biofeedback.

Anyway, thats a brief overview of EEG biofeedback. Its pretty exciting and there are tons of possibilities. I know its not a nootropic drug, but the end goal is the same, one is through chemical means, the other electrical means. I think those with an interest in nootropics would also be interested in biofeedback, so hopefully some of you find this post helpful, it was fun to write.
 
Ximot said:
Something I found very pleasant as a dopamine enhancer is L-Dopa (Mucuna Pruriens) - sadly, I have run out.


no one else wants to point out that dosing yourself with L-Dopa is potentialy a bad idea?
 
who:
can you please elaborate? what's your take on using these 'nootropics' daily? from what i understand they are all precursors to or cofactors in acetylcholine / dopamine / norepinephrine / serotonin production, so why have you singled that one out as dangerous?

eleven:
hmm interesting but it sounds a little bit on the pseudo-science tip. i have to question if not for the fact that you cite 'a pulse of theta waves' as the origin of "out of the blue" hehe.
 
Q: Would the piracetam/hydergine combo be a good start for a newbie wannabe nootropic user?

Q2: (there goes forum policy =D , I trust it doesn't apply to legal drugs) What's a good source/price for those compounds?

Someone mentioned creatine...I have used that stuff for years (8 weeks on, 4 weeks off) with the following results:
I gain 2-3 kilo's in the first week, as visible muscle volume (not mass: it's water).
Strength increases by about 10%, and I can use that slightly longer, i.e. I can lift 10% more and do 11 repetitions instead of 10.
Normal muscle tone increases slightly.
My intestines don't like it. Hardly noticeable unless when doing large doses, but very noticeable when tripping.
Very subtle "up" feeling.

I've been unable to use it for the last 2-3 years as I invariably get depressed very quickly after taking it for a day or two. Cause unknown.
 
who said:
no one else wants to point out that dosing yourself with L-Dopa is potentialy a bad idea?

bumped so it wouldn't get lost. I've also read L-Dopa is not the best chemical to use as a dopamine precursor. I've been recommended L-tyrosine as safer and better long-term (I don't know the science behind it).

Somebody that knows?
 
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