• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ
  • PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Xorkoth, sorry you hadn't had a chance to read my postings. I have been taking 3-4mg a day for the last 3 weeks or so now from thte 1Kg that I purchased. I can get a limitless supply whenever I want. It is not working for me. Please read my postings to catch up.
 
It only means that the effects are longer lasting, up to two weeks, until the MAO-B it has binded to is routinely replaced. I can see why the word 'irreversible' might worry you though. Just to reiterate, it makes no -permanent- physiological changes to MAO-B activation.
 
3-4mg??? Do you mean 3-4g? We are talking PIRACETAM, right?

Either way dose is way off.

3-4mg is way too low to feel anything.

3-4g is way too high... Piracetam has a couple issues... first that much can cause brain fog in just about EVERYONE. If this is what you are taking I bet that's your problem right there.

There are some who call for an initialization dose schedule of 2-4g/d for 3-5 days just so you can feel SOMETHINING and can learn WHAT it feels like, then after that going down to the recommended daily usage of 800mg-1200mg per day in divided doses.

YOU MUST TAKE A SUPPLEMENTAL SOURCE OF CHOLINE TO HELP YOUR BRAIN MAKE MORE ACETYLCHOLINE BECAUSE ALL -RATECTAMS BURN IT ALL UP!!! RESULTING IN... *BRAIN FOG*

Sources of choline are: alpha-GPS, Citicholine, plain old Choline Bitartrate, DMAE, centrophenoxine (Lucidril), Lecithin (cheap and also good for MANY other body systems.

But even at optimal dosage, with added choline source, people have VERY variable responses to the -racetams. I for instance dislike Piracetam (except for occasional use as an MDMA or Menthylone booster). No matter what it seems to make me feel LESS focused and foggy and tired. However I have found I really like Aniracetam, which has the advantage of feeling more stimulating and focusing for me. Others find the opposite so you have to try both. It is more potent needing a smaller daily dose that Piracetam, but being shorter acting. Advantages are as I said for some a more stimulating feeling without fog (for some) and the fact that it is still legal in the US.

dlancelot, I ***STRONGLY*** suggest you join (free) over at IMMINST.ORG and go to their forums area, and post your issues/symptoms and complete regiment (supplements as well as meds) to either the supplements or nootropics area. There are MANY experts on nootropics and supplements and mental issues there who have HUGE experience/ knowledge/ education and many even working in research and/or medica/bioscience areas.

They will be able to give a FAR more comprehensive examination of you situation and MANY suggestions that end up getting cross reviewed by alot of other members there who will add their own opinions. THAT is where you need to be asking this stuff, really, not here.
 
I found DMAE absolutely horrible by the way ^
no idea why but when I tried it I felt like something was very wrong physically, I felt sick and it was not at high doses at all. Actually a tiny bit below recommended dose.

alpha-GPC (not GPS, the c is for choline lol... essential for choline haha) and centrophenoxine seem to be the best sources in terms of produced bioavailability. Not sure if that can be compensated with sheer dosage... I guess so.

L-theanine is great by the way. Feels gentle and natural.
 
DwayneHoover: excellent, thank you. Yes, I did mean 3-4gr./day not 3-4mg...my bad. I have been taking choline bitartrate supplement.

I have joined them over there. Thank you for the heads up! We're really in need of finding something that works, and really the psychiatrists these days want us to be on speed :(
 
Delsyd said:
Ive never found Piracetam to potentiate anything and ive combined it with quite a few things.
Click to expand...

Potentiation is hard to qualify.

I have noticed Piracetam has seemed to change the nature of the following drugs:

amphetamines - prolonged peak
Cannabis - more lucid thought process
LSD - unusually edgy trip
MDMA - seemed potentiated
Ketamine - makes it super weak
Alcohol - I get drunk quicker

Currently my supplements are,

Piracetam 1500-2500mg day, taken before work
Choline Bitartrate 1500-2500mg day, same time
Vitamin D @ 5000iu/day
Valerian, Passionflower, Hops, Chamomile, Catnip tincture before bed
Melatonin 1mg before bed

I don't find this dose of Piracetam to be excessive although it might be for some people. If I felt any physical stimulation I would reduce the dose, but all I get is mental wakefulness and endurance through the work day. I can sleep on it.
 
Watch out with so much vitamin D, I emplore you...
Overdose of water soluble vitamins is more difficult and they wash out more easily but D is fat soluble. I take extra now and then because of less (sun)light in the winter but 5000 units is a lot, quite possibly excessive.
Think about taking less, it's probably largely a waste anyway. Not saying everything over 1 is nonsense but this is another extreme. I don't know how much is in one serving but there may be formulae that have too much in a single serving.
 
^Blood 25-D levels determine how much cholicalciferol is needed, there is no other way. 4,000IU per day is actually on the low side for the majority of people. Toxicity is not an issue at all, you're fine BD. Consider adding some K2 at maybe 45-50ug as they synergize quite well.

In fact, one would need at least 4000IU-5000IU per day for roughly 5 months before plasma concentrations reach optimum levels (about ~45ng/mL for most males)
 
Last edited:
bluedolphin, I would have to somewhat agree with Solipsis, however upper limits seem to be around 40,000-50,000 IU/day for around 2 months:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#Overdose_by_ingestion

ref:
http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/sec01/ch004/ch004k.html

Just as a precaution, you may want to get off the vitamin D supplements for a little while (according to your physician), then get blood testing ordered to check your serum levels of all vitamins/minerals to see if you're low at all (as you may not need any supplementation).

My PhD has recommended 3,000IU daily, however, I have Crohn's disease (and am now post op. after a resection), and I also live in the Northern climate

*Edit:
oops, didn't realize that delta_9 beat me to da punch
 
Last edited:
Sorry! I thought IU was something like what is called the ADH here and apparently DRI in English... I mistook the unit, my bad for not doing the homework.

Still, assuming you are eating alright I would worry more about too much vitamin D from supplements than too little from not taking any. Really.

These guys appear to have checked some general limits but maybe you don't need to go too much near it. On the other hand I think that such limits can often be on the ridiculous safe side for some things (but perhaps not for other). I know that guidelines for radioactivity for instance are downright paranoid.
 
Re Vitamin D...I would follow MD's advice and take at least 3000IU. More and more doctors are doing this, as did mine after testing blood levels and finding my D alarmingly below the recommended 40 number. Told me to start taking Calcium as well as about 4000 extra IU of D/day. Rather conservative chap as well.

Recent discoveries including a large trial involving several thousand people I believe showed that FDA was WAY too conservative at recommending only 400IU. Proper way is to test blood levels. Most peoples' are far too low. MANY higher risk of problems from too little, with many systems from bowels to immunity to mental to heart to liver.

Its a good idea to add some K2 or K3 (or a combo pill) as this prevent arterial calcification from large extra doses of Calcium + D... the K totally prevents this. Do ask your MD though how much is proper for the amount of D and Calcium you are getting.... it's not much I think only 50-100 mcg / 1000IU of D? You want to be careful and get that right as too much can cause excess clotting... and can interfere with the action of certain antibiotics... and also be sure to get MD advise if in any strong prescription blood thinner like Warfarin/Coumadin.

I know this all sounds complicated, but adding some D + a little K is probably worth the effort given how bad the effects of chronic under-consumption are.
 
Last edited:
delta_9 said:
With proper Vitamin D/K supplementation, calcium deficiency is extremely unlikely. In fact it's unheard of in the US.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you are getting this fact. I am constantly hearing about the importance of ensuring you get sufficient calcium intake, and as you age it is of VITAL importance to supplement. My mom recently broke her hip then days later femur due to advanced osteoporosis, despite always consuming lots of milk/yogurt/diary etc.

See here, or google "calcium deficiency"... thousands of articles warning of the danger.

http://www.thedietchannel.com/What-You-Should-Know-About-Calcium-Deficiency.htm
"...Calcium deficiency is of major concern in the United States. An estimated 44-87% of Americans don’t get enough..."

Sounds as far from "unheard of" as you can get to be honest.
 
K2 MK-4 (and perhaps other menaquinones like MK-7) may turn out to be an effective treatment for arterial calcification and cardiovascular disease in general. It’s extremely effective at preventing osteoporosis-related fractures in humans. That’s a highly significant fact. Osteoporosis and arterial calcification often come hand-in-hand. Thus, they are not a result of insufficient or excessive calcium, but of a failure to use the available calcium effectively. In the warfarin-treated rats described above, the serum (blood) calcium concentration was the same in all groups. Osteoporosis and arterial calcification are two sides of the same coin, and the fact that one can be addressed with K2 MK-4 means that the other may be as well.
Click to expand...
http://www.atherosclerosis-journal.com/article/S0021-9150(06)00485-0/abstract ^^^(Source)
Abstract
Background

Elevated serum calcium concentrations are associated with vascular calcification and cardiovascular disease. It is unknown whether there is a relationship between high-normal serum calcium levels and sub-clinical vascular effects. We investigated the association between serum calcium and carotid plaque thickness, a powerful early predictor of clinical coronary and cerebrovascular events.
Methods

Epidemiological study of 1194 subjects from the Northern Manhattan Study cohort, a prospective community-based study designed to investigate risk factors for vascular disease in different race-ethnic groups.
Results

Subjects with carotid plaque had higher corrected serum calcium levels within the normal range than those without carotid plaque (2.21±0.09mmol/L versus 2.19±0.09mmol/L, p<0.002). The relationship between carotid plaque and serum calcium persisted after adjustment for traditional cardiovascular risk factors. Subjects in the top quintile of maximal carotid plaque thickness (≥1.7mm) were more likely to be in the highest quintile of serum calcium level (OR=1.64, 95% CI=1.17–2.29, p<0.004). The interaction of age and corrected serum calcium was the most significant predictor of carotid plaque thickness when traditional vascular risk factors were considered (p<0.001).
Conclusions

Serum calcium levels in a multi-ethnic population of older men and women were positively associated with carotid plaque thickness, a powerful early predictor of clinical coronary and cerebrovascular events.
Click to expand...
http://www.doctorozwebsite.com/can-vitamin-k2-reverse-arterial-calcification.html ^^^(Source)

Bottom line, one who supplements Vitamins D3/K2 will have optimal calcium metabolism. Period.

Calcium is EVERYWHERE you cannot escape it. Supplementing it is not smart.

Calcium concentrations in US water - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2488164/

If nearly any kind of diet has lots of calcium then the cause for osteoporosis is vitamin-D-deficiency (and K2-deficiency!),

Calcium and Iron are probably the 2 most age promoting supplements available.

Interesting read - Calcification, the aging factor.

Edit - If you'd like I could go on but the evidence is truly staggering.
 
Last edited:
DwayneHoover said:
thanks, great info.

know anything that can rebuild bone in a 78yr old woman with severe osteoporosis? My mom's surgeon said he'd never encountered bone so soft. Scary.
Click to expand...

I know a guy who is in his thirties and has osteoporosis. He gets a whack of calcium and a medication - alendronic acid. I have no clue if alendronic acid would help your mom, sorry.
 
Never really taken supplements before but I'm interested in reading some of the posts here. Has anyone taken both piracetem and m. pruriens? How would you compare them? Are they even supposed to have similar effects?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top