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Nootropics The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread (Stack 2)

I've been experimenting with many nootropics over the past year. I've been wanting to try Hydergine, but hesitated because of the price and availability. Since Hydergine is now discontinued (looks like even in countries where it was available over the counter no longer have it, I've tried a few). I read it was due to the risk of heart fibrosis, so it must of been bad enough for it to be pulled even in countries that are more relaxed with drug and prescription laws.

Now what's available is one ergot alkaloid from hydergine- Dihydroergocristine. This may be a good thing, maybe the 1 is enough to have the same effects and lessen the risks of fibrosis. Anyone try just this Dihydroergocristine? Looks like it's also cheaper, available in 6mg. tabs ...what dose to take? Or anyone have a friend that knows where to still get hydergine? Or if it will be going generic (although I have a feeling Dihydroergocristine is the generic being offered now!)

I will be taking it with piracetam, oxiracetam, aniracetam, noopept so there will be some synergy... and possibly coluracetam... yeah, I try alot.

And on that note, my drop in the bucket, sunifiram is the only "racetam" (I know it's not a true racetam) that I did not like. Made my body and chest hot and heat up... Even my skin was hot to the touch. Small dose..hard to measure 6mcg but just a scrape on the small scoop it comes with. I found eating carbs or sugary foods with it caused my body to heat up even more.. Almost like caffeine would. Didn't really notice any nootropic effects to make it worth taking. Hence, wanting to try hydergine now. :)
 
Hi and welcome to Bluelight / PD :)

seems maybe dihydroergocristine is just a 5-HT6 antagonist. I'm not sure what mediates the nootropic effects of hydergine but if I were you I'd wait until there is some more information about the effects of just the isolated alkaloid. No point in spending a lot of money if it doesn't work, even if there isn't really risk of cardiac fibrosis.

Sunifiram is a raceram, yeah.. dosage is not around 6 micrograms but 6 milligrams / mg so I guess that was a typo. Indeed you need a milligram scale unless you want to play around with scoops. Or use volumetric measurement of course if it is stable in solution.
I liked the one time I tried sunifiram, and it was definitely (one of) the most effective nootropics I have ever taken. It increased my processing bandwidth so much when I played the piano that fast pieces I play were no longer limited by attention but by how well I learned / memorized them up to that point. Indeed I read some concerning things about sunifiram and I want to limit my intake of anything stimulating in general so I don't want to use it all the time at all, but for once in a while I think it is very good.
 
Until the day before yesterday I took 1,200 mg of piracetam a day to help myself with the memory problems that I've been having since I quit benzodiazepines (8 months ago now). Actually, I started taking it after I took amphetamine on two occasions recently re-dosing with very high doses. It was a stupid idea especially because I was already feeling much much better and amphetamine seemed to ruin it a lot.

The thing is ~2 weeks later I'm here in the UK and I've been experiencing weird depression and brain fog with piracetam not helping at all, actually it was getting worse and worse. At first I didn't even consider that piracetam may be the reason, I thought that it was normal, since I quit BZDs, I had periods of good memory and mood and then out of nowhere I would feel down and start forgetting everything again. However, a few months ago or so I've read an article stating that low levels of AChE and thus abnormally high levels of acetylcholine may be the direct physiological reason for depression (google "acetylcholine and depression" and you'll find it). Now, there have been various contradictory researches so far as to whether piracetam acts through cholinergic transmission or not.

One thing I've noticed is that piracetam effects at doses of 1,200 mg a day and higher somehow interact with buprenorphine effects lowering my heart rate a lot. I can't think of any other reason other than higher acetylcholine levels impacting my HR. This may be unrelated but yesterday I didn't take my piracetam dose on purpose because I took more buprenorphine, I'm at a low dose now, so sometimes it acts stronger due to more norbuprenorphine binding to opioid receptors, and then it depresses both my breathing and heart rate quite much. Anyway, the brain fog I sometimes experience has a huge impact on my self-esteem, I can't freely talk to people when I feel as if I was a retard. It's not only in my head, I also suffer from depersonalisation/derealisation and it seems to affect my cognitive abilities as well. Of course it's much worse when I'm anxious and I'm more anxious when it's worse... Then I sometimes happen not to be able to articulate words properly.

I haven't taken piracetam for two days now and I'm better, the brain fog diminished substantially and my mood is much better. It could be not be directly related to acetylcholine, but perhaps piracetam is not a good idea for people recovering after benzodiazepine dependence. I've noticed a correlation between depressive mood periods and the feeling of my brain being over-active, I'm sure this is because of too much glutamatergic neurotransmission and it seems that piracetam may be worsening this being an AMPA positive allosteric modulater. The damage by benzodiazepines is to GABA receptors above all, so I seriously doubt that piracetam can have any strong positive effect for the benzodiazepine PAWS. Moreover, I found out that a single low dose of DXM (30-60mg) made me feel much better for a couple of days, but then I started abusing it every day, and one day I seemed to reach light Plateau Sigma, which at first depressed me like hell but then my life has changed for better. Thus it was glutamate inhibition that definitely helped me a lot, and taking an ampakine drug rather made things worse.

Can anyone relate to that? I'm not really much experienced with glutamate and GABA systems, I rather know just basics, and I don't really have time now to look for scientific papers that could back up my hypothesis.
 
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I'm a little confused on how long you were actually taking Piracetam, was it just two weeks or longer than that? I can't comment on the effect it may have on GABA or acetylcholine receptors, but there's debate on whether -racetams need to be cycled to be efficacious. The effects of Piracetam are very subtle and usually take a while to manifest to begin with, so if you were originally having positive results, two weeks doesn't seem like a very long time to start experiencing negative effects instead. It's certainly possible though, especially if the symptoms reduced after discontinuing use.

I haven't taken -racetams to necessarily improve loss of certain functions from sustained drug (ab)use, but have had varied success with them in general. There are times that they work very well, and other times where the effects are neutral or extremely negative. I don't have a lot of experience with Piracetam, but I was taking 20-30mg of Noopept (not a -racetam but derivative of the family) daily in 2012 and found it to have profound beneficial effects on social anxiety, creativity, motivation and mood, though these were not apparent until 1-2 weeks after first use. I read in multiple places that Noopept is supposed to be cycled, though don't believe I've ever seen conclusive evidence as to why that is (or maybe I just don't have a good enough understanding of how it works). I wasn't experiencing any negative effects, but everything seemed to indicate that it was wise to take a break, so I did after maybe 4 months of mostly daily use.

I have tried to cycle back on to Noopept several times since then because I remember how much it seemed to help, but I've never been able to maintain a dosing regimen due to limited or negative effects. The last few times I've taken it have resulted in brain fog, lack of motivation and poor memory recall following the days I was on it. Similar to what you mentioned, these things indirectly affect my anxiety and result in lower productivity and overall mood. It's like I don't feel like doing anything, but couldn't even if I tried. It's very frustrating knowing that something which once worked so well may never work the same way again. It could easily have more to do with other external influences, and perhaps I was or am investing too much power in what it was doing for me back then, but there's no question it did noticeably help for a while.

I guess my point is that -racetams don't always work the way they're supposed to, and even when you find one that does, the effects may be short-lived. I'm sure someone who has a more firm understanding of how -racetams work in the brain could give a better explanation as to why you may have experienced those symptoms from Piracetam, but unfortunately I only have cursory knowledge about it. There's a ton of information on Longecity, but obviously nothing specific to your exact situation. You may try asking about it over there, but since the forum is dedicated to brain health, some members tend to provide irrelevant information about other non-nootropic drugs that may be involved instead of answering the question.
 
Anyone have any indication that Huperzine or Sulbutiamine have interactions with either amphetamine or with psychedelics (LSD and 2C-X)?

from what i gather, sulbutiamine might have something to affect amps due to increasing dopamine sensitivity, but i suspect its a somewhat dose dependent situation.
 
Can someone explain to me why nootropic discussion is in PD rather than OD? I've never read any conclusive reports that these drugs have psychedelic effects. Stimulants like amphetamine and methylphenidate are classic nootropics, but discussion on those and similar drugs are firmly in OD territory.
 
It's a good question. I think when they started to become available we decided to discuss them here because a lot of people were exploring their interaction with psychedelics, and because the PD environment seems well-suited to discussing this sort of thing, and people wanted to discuss them here. They probably discuss them in OD too, not sure though as I never visit OD.
 
The information at the link seems interesting! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18679119
At low concentrations, nitrous oxide and xenon can be neuroprotective. Xenon more so than nitrous oxide. Though nitrous oxide lowers vitamin b12 levels, administration of vitamin b12 prior to use will ensure adequate vitamin b12. Nitrous oxide and xenon are indeed nootropics, not just quasinootropics.

Clarification of quasinootropics seem necessary. Quasinootropics are non toxic drugs that are lifestyle enhancers. These drugs are for enhancing strength, intelligence, peaceful mindset, productivity, energy, anti-anxiety and/or other attributes. Though the difference between people who use quasinootropics and those who don't aren't that different, quasinootropics are useful if taken at the right time. Like non toxic stimulants taken before studying. Or a non-toxic anti-anxiety drug before a social event.
Nootropics seem to focus mainly on the creation of new neurons or the increase in problem solving and memory. Since 2C-x at low doses actually increase intelligence, phenylpiracetam actually increases focus and concentration while providing mild energy through an unknown mechanism, and low doses of psylocybin actually grows new brain cells and may eliminate depression for months, these can be classified in the strict category of nootropics.
 
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Doldrugs said:
Can someone explain to me why nootropic discussion is in PD rather than OD? I've never read any conclusive reports that these drugs have psychedelic effects. Stimulants like amphetamine and methylphenidate are classic nootropics, but discussion on those and similar drugs are firmly in OD territory.
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Since 2C-x at low doses actually increase intelligence and low doses of psylocybin actually grows new brain cells and eliminates depression for months, these can be classified in the category of nootropics.
 
That could justify the discussion of low dose psychedelics as nootropics in OD, but doesn't really support discussing nonpsychedelic drugs in the psychedelic drugs forum. I still think nootropics make way more sense in OD, where the most famous nootropics with the greatest history of use (stimulants) are already discussed. Discussing nootropic/psychedelic combinations does make sense in this forum.
 
Doldrugs said:
That could justify the discussion of low dose psychedelics as nootropics in OD, but doesn't really support discussing nonpsychedelic drugs in the psychedelic drugs forum. I still think nootropics make way more sense in OD, where the most famous nootropics with the greatest history of use (stimulants) are already discussed. Discussing nootropic/psychedelic combinations does make sense in this forum.
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Safe stimulants like Cyclopentamine?
 
SkyblueMolly said:
Safe stimulants like Cyclopentamine?
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Most or all stimulants are nootropic. They were used early and mid century by the militaries of many countries. Isn't cyclopentamine less efficient and safe than propylhexedrine? The latter of the two still has shitty side effects. I wouldn't call either high end stims, I was thinking more like amphetamine or methylphenidate.
 
Doldrugs said:
Most or all stimulants are nootropic. They were used early and mid century by the militaries of many countries. Isn't cyclopentamine less efficient and safe than propylhexedrine? The latter of the two still has shitty side effects. I wouldn't call either high end stims, I was thinking more like amphetamine or methylphenidate.
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Stimulants have to be cycled though. Otherwise, you build tolerance quickly. Cycling is being sometimes on stimulants and sometimes off them. L-tyrosine, 5-HTP and L-dopa can help replenish neuroreceptors. What about ethylphenidate and tametraline? I hope I can source and get DMAA by the end of the year. If I owned a lab, I could just synth DMAA. It sucks currently living in the states!
 
I like being hyper too but this was a bad kind of stimulation. Granted I took an energy supplement with caffeine in it too, not pure DMAA. But I was sweating all over, jittery, anxious, nervous, and my body felt really crappy.

I was badly addicted to opiates at the time, and I now realize that made a lot of drugs feel different for me. So who knows.
 
Xorkoth said:
I was badly addicted to opiates at the time, and I now realize that made a lot of drugs feel different for me.
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I definitely agree with that.. Everything with opiates was great.. Now those drugs that were great, I have no interest in.. (Except IV'Caine, I'll always miss..)
 
Doldrugs said:
Can someone explain to me why nootropic discussion is in PD rather than OD? I've never read any conclusive reports that these drugs have psychedelic effects. Stimulants like amphetamine and methylphenidate are classic nootropics, but discussion on those and similar drugs are firmly in OD territory.
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Supplement discussion is actually located in iirc the HL living for a part, but there is some overlap and cultural history that I think asks for part of this discussion to be enjoyed in the PD forum. Sometimes low doses of psychedelics are taken as nootropics and the point would be a type of consciousness expansion.
Part of RC discussion is indeed dispersed over other fora nowadays, but not long ago a lot of it was located here in PD, again an online cultural phenomenon based on history. Yes based on correctness of where the topics are supposed to be you can argue that it must be used, but you can't just move over a whole online subculture just that easily IMO.
 
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