Nootropics The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread (Stack 2)

[Grinders Kiefers]

Sorry, but since when is 2M2BOH considered a nootropic? Is EtOH also a nootropic then?

 

[InterestingFACT]

Sorry, but since when is 2M2BOH considered a nootropic? Is EtOH also a nootropic then?

Exactly what I was thinking.


I got my order of sunifiram--I like it. Not super strong effects, at least at the dosage I'm taking it, but that's ok. Good stacked with ethylphenidate and caffeine.

 

[SkyblueMolly]

Sorry, but since when is 2M2BOH considered a nootropic? Is EtOH also a nootropic then?

2m2bOH has no toxic metabolites and has anti-anxiety effects. It can be used long term without negative effects. 2m2bOH specifically targets certain areas of the brain. It can be used on college campuses and in the office and no one would know. 2m2bOH increases sociability. EtOH on the other hand has toxic metabolites and makes you lose coordination. 2m2bOH does not damage neurons. It has little to no negative effects on the liver or your awareness. EtOH damages the liver, neurons, and you slowly lose awareness and memory during the course of it's effects. EtOH is not a nootropic. 2m2bOH(2-methyl-2-butanol) does not inhibit memory. Just don't use 2m2bOH more than a couple times a week though.

 

[SkyblueMolly]

Dimethylamylamine is much safer than ethylphenidate, though ethylphenidate is safer than methylphenidate.
This is a cool video I found on the internet about the nootropic/stimulant DMAA(Dimethylamylamine).


Dimethylamylamine can be stacked with ginkgo biloba.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Dimethylamylamine is much safer than ethylphenidate, though ethylphenidate is safer than methylphenidate.
This is a cool video I found on the internet about the nootropic/stimulant DMAA(Dimethylamylamine).

I won't claim that ethylphenidate is particularly safe. It doesn't "feel" safe to me. And I don't even take recreational dosages of it the way most people do. It definitely feels subjectively more taxing on the body than methylphenidate, which already feels dirty imo.

But DMAA is a shit stimulant. It's not the drug from limitless.

 

[Solipsis]

2M2BOH is not a nootropic, I've tried it - it made me kind of drunk. Skybluemolly I have seen you post a huge list of compounds here twice now and you apparently consider anything that has an effect that could remotely be put to good use a nootropic, if it meets the toxicity conditions. I strongly disagree, because it confuses and muddies the whole subject of nootropics.

Don't get me started on DMAA, it is a really crappy stimulant that is good for almost nothing. It is thermogenic, which is... unusual in that capacity, but it never inspired me or granted me any abilities or effects. It just made me feel mildly nice for a short while and upon repeating I felt like shit. Well that part is true at least: there is a fair downside.

And indeed, what makes you say that ethylphenidate is safer? Please provide evidence.

 

[Ekscentra]

My disclaimer:
This stuff is not for kids

Cerebrolysin is an incredibly safe substance regardless of age, as evidenced by this study dosing infants here: http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01059461

 

[Yeetbeat]

Recently got hold of some Pramiracetam, Noopept, and Alpha-GPC. I'm new to nootropics for the most part (inb4 "pramiracetam isn't for beginners" etc), and am having a lot of trouble finding any solid info on dosage ratios, ROA (with regards to the Noopept), and dosage timing protocols.

Obviously I need to experiment a little to find my own personal 'sweet spot' so to speak, but what would some of you guys recommend for how much, when, and how frequently I should dose the above? I'm also having trouble discerning whether you're supposed to cycle them to avoid tolerance/dependency of any kind (mixed anecdotal reports at best) - as in only use on days you NEED a boost, or whether you're supposed to take them every day for a period of time to get full effects.

So far my experimenting has only led me to try Noopept 30mg sublingually administered once in the morning (have been doing this for approx 1 week now), and the addition of Pramiracetam 150mg orally once. The one occasion I added in the Prami, I experienced obvious brain fog as well as a subtle yet obvious headache (which I put down to choline, or lack thereof - hence I got hold of the Alpha-GPC).


Thanks for the input guiz!

 

[Solipsis]

Doesn't pramiracetam have a quite short half-life?

I think because of that more than ever, you need to ask yourself to what end you are taking nootropics. I don't think there is a point to taking nootropics, and especially racetams, on days when you don't have to 'perform' or be productive in some way.
On the other hand, there seem to be more and more nootropics that may have some effect on LTP nowadays and noopept may help there (if anything). Using that mechanism is not well understood and the benefits are putative. Apparently it may be of service as adaptogenic quality, and also perhaps to reinforce / consolidate / catalyze doing things like changing your habits or learning things. I guess you'd better be careful that you change your habits for the best during that time.
So I guess taking noopept may have some effect that is not immediately obvious, or it may do fuck all on that front really.
(Personally I like optimizing learning to play the piano very well, actually sunifiram enables me to play much better, especially fast pieces... extraordinary effect. It is not a raceTam but a raceRam though, the raceTams are more subtle in my experience but I quite like aniracetam)

Therefore IMO take things like noopept when you are doing well or when you are stressed but not doing badly (but! be careful not to get agitated on top of your stress), and take racetams when you want to be your very best cognitively, then it may help marginally.
I don't think you have to take racetams a long time to get optimal effects, then again I never tried insane attack doses and strict high dose regimens but I have taken several racetams extensively and also in pretty long periods where I took it every day. My experience is that if you take them continuously the effects either wane or you get used to them and it seems like they do. That may indeed just be the usual tolerance.
But they never got more optimal for me. So it would seem foolish to take pramiracetam god knows how many times a day, to no special avail.

Take the alpha-GPC or other choline sources any time you take typical nootropics such as racetams, noopept, or racerams... but I don't know the deal about alpha-GPC but plain choline may not be very healthy to the heart so I don't recommend taking it randomly at any time. Maybe you are in the clear with alpha-GPC, I also figure things like lecithin are less of a problem.

 

[Shamanism]

I've had very noticable good results with a coluracetam sample (more than noopept and other racetams), perhaps due to increased high afinity choline uptake, also a guy on another forum takes it without any choline supplements and has great results, will definately try it for a few weeks and update after a few days.

 

[Torresmo]

I have overlooked nootropics until now, don't know why, but last night I started reading this thread and started getting very interested! However, since the information is very sparse, I don't feel like I am learning very much from just reading this B&D. Could someone give me some input, please?

So, since the beginning of the year I have been experimenting with various new drugs.I had a great time, but now is time to get productive and I am having difficulties in moving from where I am (unproductive). I will have a very important exam (probably in december), which could guarantee the job of my life. To pass it, however, I need to study at least 4 hours a day, and considering I already work 7 hours a day, I am starting to think some nootropics could help me at least getting started! So what I need, mainly, is some motivation, good memory, concentration and positive mood.

From what I gathered, Hydergine is the best nootropic (as xorkoth and others said). The good news, is I discovered it is sold OTC in my country, and its quite cheap. So I guess I`ll give it a try.
I also will probably make and order for aniracetam on ebay, as racetams seems to go well with hydergine to improve focus (?). And I don't like the idea of eating GRAMS of piracetam everyday, just no very practical.
I liked what I read about phenibut, so I thought about buying some to use occasionally, when my day isn't some good and I need to improve my mood.
Maybe some noopept to take occasionally?
Off course exercising and eating well is on the plan!

So, what do you guys think? I admit I don't really know exactly what those drugs do, I am just basing those choices on what people say is the best (I know...). The problem is there are so many options that I don't even know where to start!?!

 

[Solipsis]

I don't really know about hydergine but nootropics unlike stimulants don't tend to work on dopamine and hardly improve motivation if at all, just so you're clear on that. I have seen people make that mistake before. If you have a lot of work to do, and you don't feel at all like doing it and are not productive, nootropics won't change that IMO... what they help with is improve performance with learning and memorizing when you are actually doing the work / studying.
Also for some people there are additional benefits, for example in my case something like aniracetam allows me to think in a more organized manner, and I feel like I have more mental bandwidth and that way I am saved a lot of stress, which feels anxiolytic. Or it may just be directly anxiolytic on top of that. But I have diagnosed mental issues that are probably the reason I can't think more organized in the first place.

I am not really impressed much by noopept.

Nootropics can 'get you started'? Well they can support what you will have to be doing... but if you have to cram unreasonably I'd look into some dopamine releaser or reuptake inhibitor that isn't so crappy that you will be dealing with crazy hangovers most of the time. I try not to suggest that you take drugs like amps, I just mean that they improve productivity if that is desperately needed. It is not responsible to chronically take them of course... you could easily develop a habit, get problems sleeping and eating, it is not really sustainable unless you want to be a speedfreak.

 

[InterestingFACT]

I have overlooked nootropics until now, don't know why, but last night I started reading this thread and started getting very interested! However, since the information is very sparse, I don't feel like I am learning very much from just reading this B&D. Could someone give me some input, please?

So, since the beginning of the year I have been experimenting with various new drugs.I had a great time, but now is time to get productive and I am having difficulties in moving from where I am (unproductive). I will have a very important exam (probably in december), which could guarantee the job of my life. To pass it, however, I need to study at least 4 hours a day, and considering I already work 7 hours a day, I am starting to think some nootropics could help me at least getting started! So what I need, mainly, is some motivation, good memory, concentration and positive mood.

From what I gathered, Hydergine is the best nootropic (as xorkoth and others said). The good news, is I discovered it is sold OTC in my country, and its quite cheap. So I guess I`ll give it a try.
I also will probably make and order for aniracetam on ebay, as racetams seems to go well with hydergine to improve focus (?). And I don't like the idea of eating GRAMS of piracetam everyday, just no very practical.
I liked what I read about phenibut, so I thought about buying some to use occasionally, when my day isn't some good and I need to improve my mood.
Maybe some noopept to take occasionally?
Off course exercising and eating well is on the plan!

So, what do you guys think? I admit I don't really know exactly what those drugs do, I am just basing those choices on what people say is the best (I know...). The problem is there are so many options that I don't even know where to start!?!

After having gone through the nootropic loop for a while, I don't know how much you can expect them to give you functionally. That is, I'm not accusing them of not working, but I do think that whatever gains you are making through their use are probably offset by the time you spend researching, buying, and examining their effects.

Personally speaking, I don' imagine that you're going to get anything out of nootropics that you couldn't get out of a simple stimulant.

That being said, I've found that noopept--moreso than the conventional racetams that I've tried--to have an immediate and significant motivating effect. If any nootropic could help your studies, I think that would be the one.

Also, I've liked sunifiram quite a bit, though I haven't had the opportunity yet to try it during a "crunch time." Hydergine is promising, but from what I'm aware it's supposed to be more useful for boosting creativity etc, than for actually helping you get work done.

There's lot of good choices, I just want to remind you not to let the "choosing" get in the way of the "doing." Really, nothing will help you get work done more-so than a good study plan, a good, quiet, distraction-free environment, and good eating and sleep habits. Those things will make just about any task far easier--even though it's often hard for us to maintain them when it's time for finals. (I'm the biggest culprit of this. Ever.)

 

[Grinders Kiefers]

2m2bOH has no toxic metabolites and has anti-anxiety effects. It can be used long term without negative effects. 2m2bOH specifically targets certain areas of the brain. It can be used on college campuses and in the office and no one would know. 2m2bOH increases sociability. EtOH on the other hand has toxic metabolites and makes you lose coordination. 2m2bOH does not damage neurons. It has little to no negative effects on the liver or your awareness. EtOH damages the liver, neurons, and you slowly lose awareness and memory during the course of it's effects. EtOH is not a nootropic. 2m2bOH(2-methyl-2-butanol) does not inhibit memory. Just don't use 2m2bOH more than a couple times a week though.

I don't know what your interpretation of "nootropic" is, but it still doesn't sound like 2M2BOH meets the requirements to be called one. In my opinion, neither EtOH or 2M2BOH meet this classification, regardless of if the latter does not have toxic metabolites, does not inhibit memory or coordination, or the other (side) effects you mentioned.

2M2BOH is not a nootropic, I've tried it - it made me kind of drunk. Skybluemolly I have seen you post a huge list of compounds here twice now and you apparently consider anything that has an effect that could remotely be put to good use a nootropic, if it meets the toxicity conditions. I strongly disagree, because it confuses and muddies the whole subject of nootropics.

I'm going to have to agree with Solipsis here. My understanding is that "nootropic" generally refers to drugs that work as "cognitive/memory/intelligence enhancers", or so-called "smart drugs"; basically anything that may improve cognition, memory, motivation, concentration, etc. I think something should really only be called a nootropic if it DOES fit into that definition, not just because it DOES NOT impair those functions or is non-toxic.

I know the term has lost a lot of meaning, especially in recent years, but I feel like there are not nearly as many drugs which do fit the aforementioned definition compared to drugs which are simply lumped into that category because they're featured on some nootropic vendors' websites or whatever. It seems dangerous to call drugs "nootropic" because of a lack of toxic or negative effects when even ones that do fit the classification can and do cause adverse or unexpected effects. It's like how Phenibut is often called a nootropic just because it's offered by nootropics vendors. Frankly, nootropics and research chemicals are not too dissimilar in the sense that many people ingest them thinking they are completely harmless or somehow believe they know better despite a lack of empirical or even anecdotal data.

 

[Averroes]

I have been through a number of stacks over the past 18 months.

I currently take 600mg of alpha gpc and 35mg of noopept daily along with a gingko bilboa supplement. This is just an everyday stack for me to increase my memory and motor function.

I am planning on adding some bacopa monnieri and huperzine a to the stack soon to see if these add anything.

I have tried piracetam and aniracetam alongside alpha gpc but i have found that for me noopept gives the most desirable results.

I use these stacks mostly for increased memory retention, cognitive function and to ward of depression and anxiety.

 

[Shamanism]

Subligual noopept had some results for me afa stacks go I think it is best to search a noot that gives good results on it's own and perhaps supplement with a good choline source but most of all listen to your body imo when you stack 5 noots and are chucking grams per day, you really have no idea which material does most of the job.

I will try to find a post on longecity that illustrates this a bit about a guy taking coluracetam and feeling worse when taking additional choline so some 'conventional wisdom' out there is stIll open for debate / experimentation.

Start with one combine with another, then switch to another and note differences (also there was a blind study of most nootropics, lots of materials people stack had little to no effect besides placebo), so do a little homework and try to keep a bit of oversight, don't just stack because someone on the internet says he feels pumped...

 

[bob_arctor]

2m2bOH has no toxic metabolites and has anti-anxiety effects. It can be used long term without negative effects. 2m2bOH specifically targets certain areas of the brain. It can be used on college campuses and in the office and no one would know. 2m2bOH increases sociability. EtOH on the other hand has toxic metabolites and makes you lose coordination. 2m2bOH does not damage neurons. It has little to no negative effects on the liver or your awareness. EtOH damages the liver, neurons, and you slowly lose awareness and memory during the course of it's effects. EtOH is not a nootropic. 2m2bOH(2-methyl-2-butanol) does not inhibit memory. Just don't use 2m2bOH more than a couple times a week though.

This post is so full of bullshit. No memory impairment? Have you even tried it? The acute effects are much simiilar to that of ethanol - motor impairment, short-term memory loss, euphoria, only a bit longer lasting, more potent, and, as you write, probably less toxic to the liver. But just because of this, this does not mean that it "does not damage neurons" - source, please?

Not everything that is an alternative to illegal or legal intoxicants automically becomes a nootropic.

Same thing with IAP and methylhexanamine... the post is less a heads-up about interesting nootropics than a random list of psychoactive substances.

 

[angeleyes]

I'm curious to know if anyone has experienced any negative effects from their long-term use of certain nootropics?

 

[SkyblueMolly]

2M2BOH is not a nootropic, I've tried it - it made me kind of drunk. Skybluemolly I have seen you post a huge list of compounds here twice now and you apparently consider anything that has an effect that could remotely be put to good use a nootropic, if it meets the toxicity conditions. I strongly disagree, because it confuses and muddies the whole subject of nootropics.

Don't get me started on DMAA, it is a really crappy stimulant that is good for almost nothing. It is thermogenic, which is... unusual in that capacity, but it never inspired me or granted me any abilities or effects. It just made me feel mildly nice for a short while and upon repeating I felt like shit. Well that part is true at least: there is a fair downside.

And indeed, what makes you say that ethylphenidate is safer? Please provide evidence.

Most of the stuff I talk about are quasinootropics(semi-nootropics) that are powerful short term and does not cause toxicity. Sort of like stuff that's like strong cleaner coffee or like benzos without side effects. Maybe true nootropics seem boring because most of them are very weak acting short term. If there was something that was both strong acting and boost cognition like NZT without side effects, that would be great. PWZ-029 seems interesting. It's a nootropic and an anti-anxiety. Nootropics are one of the newest fields, so confusion often arises, but psychedelics that act as nootropics at sub-psychedelic doses are one of the least studied fields. Maybe a new class of nootropics can be derived molecularly from there. Who knows?

Maybe we need a big and dandy cognitive enhancers thread so people could talk about the grey area of cognitive enhancement, like the sub-categories that are non-toxic stimulants, relatively safe anxi-anxiety agents, safe mood enhancers, problem solving enhancement, creativity expansion, ect.

Tametraline is a better stimulant than DMAA. DMAA can be stacked with baclofen to remove it's thermogenic effects.

 

[Torresmo]

I don't really know about hydergine but nootropics unlike stimulants don't tend to work on dopamine and hardly improve motivation if at all, just so you're clear on that. I have seen people make that mistake before. If you have a lot of work to do, and you don't feel at all like doing it and are not productive, nootropics won't change that IMO... what they help with is improve performance with learning and memorizing when you are actually doing the work / studying.
Also for some people there are additional benefits, for example in my case something like aniracetam allows me to think in a more organized manner, and I feel like I have more mental bandwidth and that way I am saved a lot of stress, which feels anxiolytic. Or it may just be directly anxiolytic on top of that. But I have diagnosed mental issues that are probably the reason I can't think more organized in the first place.

I am not really impressed much by noopept.

Nootropics can 'get you started'? Well they can support what you will have to be doing... but if you have to cram unreasonably I'd look into some dopamine releaser or reuptake inhibitor that isn't so crappy that you will be dealing with crazy hangovers most of the time. I try not to suggest that you take drugs like amps, I just mean that they improve productivity if that is desperately needed. It is not responsible to chronically take them of course... you could easily develop a habit, get problems sleeping and eating, it is not really sustainable unless you want to be a speedfreak.

Thank you solipsis, very helpful thoughts , as always.
It is true that there is no drug in the world that, by itself, will make us change attitude. Psychedelics can be good tool for that, however.
On the other hand, aniracetam helping to think more organised is good news, since, even in the most productive periods of my life, organisation (inner and outern) hasn't been my best virtue. I am still to find out what are the issues that makes me like this. Maybe ill order some!
I tested 2-fma today, and I thought it could be great if need I to study a lot in a short period time, but I`d never take it daily, no thank you! As much as it is described as "clean" and "productive" (and it is! great stuff!) I feel very tired in the end of the day, and I can't imagine how some people can manage to take this everyday...

After having gone through the nootropic loop for a while, I don't know how much you can expect them to give you functionally. That is, I'm not accusing them of not working, but I do think that whatever gains you are making through their use are probably offset by the time you spend researching, buying, and examining their effects.

Personally speaking, I don' imagine that you're going to get anything out of nootropics that you couldn't get out of a simple stimulant.

That being said, I've found that noopept--moreso than the conventional racetams that I've tried--to have an immediate and significant motivating effect. If any nootropic could help your studies, I think that would be the one.

Also, I've liked sunifiram quite a bit, though I haven't had the opportunity yet to try it during a "crunch time." Hydergine is promising, but from what I'm aware it's supposed to be more useful for boosting creativity etc, than for actually helping you get work done.

There's lot of good choices, I just want to remind you not to let the "choosing" get in the way of the "doing." Really, nothing will help you get work done more-so than a good study plan, a good, quiet, distraction-free environment, and good eating and sleep habits. Those things will make just about any task far easier--even though it's often hard for us to maintain them when it's time for finals. (I'm the biggest culprit of this. Ever.)

Thank you for your reply!
Again, I can relate to a lot of what you said. One reason why I made this request for information is because I rather start testing by the opinion of someone experienced than spend ages trying to gather the PERFECT stack. I am amazed by the crazy ass big stack I've seen here! God, that requires a lot of dedication to try and find the right ratio for each drug! I even find difficult to remember taking my fish oil everyday...

Noopept sounds good, I think Ill try it and remark what it makes to me (after researching a little about it, of course)