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Nootropics The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread (Stack 2)

Huperzine is not something you should take for an extended period. I'm pretty sure snake venoms are also acetylcholinesterase inhibitors.

Pramiracetam can cause emotional flattening so I have heard.
 
I think the recommended daily dose of Sulbutiamine is around 600mg, but I'm not exactly too sure. I'm currently taking around 400-600mg of Sulbutiamine a day in 200mg capsule form.

So, I ordered some L-Theanine from the guys who I've been getting a lot of my racetams from, looks like they added it along with a few different choline sources recently, and I'm looking forward to getting that in the mail sometime this coming week. Definitely a lot cheaper than how much I've been paying at Vitamin Shoppe, so I'm hoping it works out the same as what I have been using.
 
Hmmm about the emotional flattening of pramiracetam, I've heard this as well. But all racetams can cause this and perhaps even nootropics like noopept. I have tried pramiracetam but not often enough to notice a trend like that, I think I was not impressed with it and not with oxiracetam either. They both seemed like a step back from aniracetam, virtually back to the more modest level of piracetam. Anyway that's enough about racetams out of the subthread tee hee ;)

Just wanted to say I will make a Noopept subthread in a minute and the link will go in the OP.

I have no personal experience with Huperzine but am inclined to believe that everyone should be careful with enzyme inhibitors like this similar to MAOIs, they mess with a safeguard mechanism of your body that prevents overload.

Does anyone have any experience with Selank or Semax. I would try consuming a dropper bottle for a week or two but just don't have the funds. Also since these are like heptapeptides (or at least one of them), I think we may want to doubt the purity.


@Uberlight who posted below: I just made a thread especially for Noopept so moved your post there. Find it here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/663162-Nootropics-Subthread-Noopept-(GVS-111)
 
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Earlier I had mentioned that I was going to provide a list of the supplements that I take. Quite a bit, really. Here it is:

B 100, Timed Release B1 (thiamin mononitrate) 100mg (6667%
B2 (riboflavin) 100mg (5882%
B3 (niacinamide) 100mg (500%
B6 (pyrixodine hydrochloride) 100mg (5000%
Folate (folic acid) 400mcg (100%
B12 (cyanocobalamin) 100mcg (1667%
Biotin 100mcg (33%
Pantothenic Aid (d-calcium pantothenate) 100mg (1000%
1 tablet daily, with a meal B vitamins are interdependent upon each other to achieve a wide variety of metabolic functions affected by physical stress.

B-12 sublingual B12 (cyanocobalamin) 500mcg (8333% 1 – 3 under tongue daily

Magnesium Magnesium Oxide 250mg (63% 1 tablet a day w/ meal Helps nerve and muscle function, essential in formation of bones and teeth, and in converting blood sugar into energy.

Alpha Lipoic Acid Alpha lipoic acid 200mg 1 capsule 1 – 2 times daily with a meal Alpha lipoic acid helps promote metabolic functioning to fight against free radicals and oxidative stress, it also supports regeneration of glutathione, one of body's primary antioxidants. Revitalizes underlying structure of skin and helps support good health.

Melatonin Melatonin 3mg 3 tablets at bedtime

D 3 D (D3 Cholecalciferol) 1000IU 1 daily, with meal Essential to calcium absorption, it helps maintain healthy bones and assists the immune system.

E E (dl-Alpha tocopheryl acetate) 400IU (1333% 1 – 2 daily w/ water & a meal A powerful antioxidant, helps the heart, immune system, prostate, and mental health.

DHA Algal DHA (docosahexaneoic acid from schizochytrium sp. oil) 900mg 1 daily, with a meal Improves memory, heart, and eye health

Potassium Gluconate Potassium 99mg (3%) 1 caplet daily w/ water or juice Essential mineral required for proper nerve and muscle function

Complete Multivitamin A (Vitamin A Acetate 29% as beta carotene) 3500IU (70%
C (ascorbic acid) 60mg (100%
D (cholecalciferol) 400IU (100%
E (dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate) (100%
K (phytonadione) 25mcg (31%
Thiamin mononitrate 1.5mg (100
Riboflavin 1.7mg (100%
Niacinamide 1.7mg (100%
Folic acid 400mcg (100%
Cyanocobalamin 6mcg (100%
Biotin 30mcg (10%
d-calcium pantothenate 10mg (100%
calcium and carbonate, dicalcium phosphate 200mg (20%
Iron (ferrous fumarate) 18mg (100%
Phosphorus (dicalcium phosphate) 20mg (2%
Iodine (potassium iodide) 150mcg (100%
Magnesium Oxide 50mg (13%
Zinc Oxide 11mg (73%
Selenium (sodium selenate) 55mcg (79%
Copper (cupric sulfate) .5mg 25%
Manganese (manganese sulfate) 2.3mg (115%
Chromium (chromium picolinate) 35mcg (29%
Molybdenum (sodium molybdate) 45mcg (60%
Chloride (potassium chloride) 72mg (2%
Potassium chloride 80mg (2%
Boric acid 75mcg
Silicon dioxide 2mg
Nickel sulfate 5mcg
Stannous chloride 10mcg
sodium metavanadate 10mcg 1 caplet daily, with meal

Beta-Alanine Beta-Alanine 2g powder, once a day Beta-alanine is a non-essential amino acid. Non-essential amino acids can be made by the body, so they don’t have to be provided by food. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins.

Beta-alanine is used for improving athletic performance and exercise capacity, building lean muscle mass, and improving physical functioning in the elderly.

Creatine Monohydate Crating monohydrate 5g powder, once a day Creatine is thought to improve strength, increase lean muscle mass, and help the muscles recover more quickly during exercise. This muscular boost may help athletes achieve bursts of speed and energy, especially during short bouts of high-intensity activities such as weight lifting or sprinting.

Creatine is a natural substance that turns into creatine phosphate in the body. Creatine phosphate helps make a substance called adenosine triphosphate (ATP). ATP provides the energy for muscle contractions

Fish Oil Fish oil, 1000mg 300 mg Omega 3 Fatty Acids 1 – 3 capsules a day, with food Long chain fatty acids, including those that cannot be made by the body. Plays a key role in the development of eye and nerve tissues. DHA may also reduce the risk of heart and circulatory disease by decreasing the thickness of the blood and lowering blood levels of triglycerides.


Taurine Taurine (free form) 4g powder, once a day Taurine is an amino acid, a chemical that is a required building block of protein. Taurine is found in large amounts in the brain, retina, heart, and blood cells called platelets. The best food sources are meat and fish.

L-Arginine L-Arginine (free form) 6g powder, once a day L-arginine is a chemical building block called “an amino acid.” It is obtained from the diet and is necessary for the body to make proteins. L-arginine is found in red meat, poultry, fish, and dairy products. It can also be made in a laboratory and used as medicine.

L-arginine is used for heart and blood vessel conditions including congestive heart failure (CHF), chest pain, high blood pressure, and coronary artery disease. L-arginine is also used for recurrent pain in the legs due to blocked arteries (intermittent claudication), decreased mental capacity in the elderly (senile dementia), erectile dysfunction (ED), and male infertility.

Some people use L-arginine for preventing the common cold, improving kidney function after a kidney transplant, high blood pressure during pregnancy (pre-eclampsia), improving athletic performance, boosting the immune system, and preventing inflammation of the digestive tract in premature infants.

Note: I had to get rid of the paranthesis following a percent sign because it made a smiley! lol
 
May I ask why you feel the need to use such an extensive list of supplements? Lots of cash and time to research?
 
It's true that supplements can make you healthy. It's also true that your body can become dependent on them, so when you don't take them anymore... total wipeout lol.

It's similar to exposure to bacteria - the body needs to toughen itself up, not rely on you to give it a horrifyingly large amount of chemical support.
 
Mostly, I supplement to aid my recovery while weight-training. My diet is pretty good, and as of last week I cut out coffee, alcohol, and cigarettes. I *think* I have noticed benefits from the supplements, and, as David the Chansey pointed out, nothing worse than "spoiling" the body so it forgets how to metabolize its own non-essentials; so every couple of weeks I'll skip a week.

I'm 35 years old, though, and very healthy, so I wonder if the supplementation has benefited me?
 
Hey guys, I'm new on the forum, but wanted to share my experiences on Noopept!

I was always very sceptical about nootropics, didn't really know much about them (not that I'm an expert now haha) and didn't really believe all the great experiences that I read about on the forums. So about 1 month ago, I figured I'd give it a try, just to be sure. I got it from *no sources and prices*

I've basically taken about 20-30 mg per day using a micro scoop, half of it with breakfast, other half at about 2PM. And I must admit, I didn't really feel all that much difference at first, but I read that it could take a couple of days to start noticing it, so I kept on using it. After about a week, the first thing I started to notice was that I wasn't getting as mentally drained from work as before. Also, I started to do my work somewhat more effeciently, and creativity definitely increased. Since that moment, the benefits haven't increased a lot, but they also haven't gone away either!
Bottom line is that it sure helps me at work, I was a sceptic, but not anymore.. and for *a fair price*, I'm not going to stop taking it!
 
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Just A Guy said:
Mostly, I supplement to aid my recovery while weight-training. My diet is pretty good, and as of last week I cut out coffee, alcohol, and cigarettes. I *think* I have noticed benefits from the supplements, and, as David the Chansey pointed out, nothing worse than "spoiling" the body so it forgets how to metabolize its own non-essentials; so every couple of weeks I'll skip a week.

I'm 35 years old, though, and very healthy, so I wonder if the supplementation has benefited me?
Click to expand...

If you only "*think*" you're benefiting from this massive stack, then why bother taking it anymore? You're 35 and very healthy, save the money for when you need them more, and knowledge is plentiful in the field, as opposed to us being guinea pigs.
 
psy997 said:
If you only "*think*" you're benefiting from this massive stack, then why bother taking it anymore? You're 35 and very healthy, save the money for when you need them more, and knowledge is plentiful in the field, as opposed to us being guinea pigs.
Click to expand...

That massive stack is longer than it really should be IMHO. It consists of:
(*) Massive doses of many core vitamins and minerals. (I'd just stick to a multivitamin personally. And even more idea, eat right.)
(*) Fish oil (eating lots of fish is better) + DHA (a bit redundant)
(*) Athletic supplements: creatine, beta-alanine, taurine, l-arginine. I find creatine and beta alanine real beneficial personally, and it makes sense because I don't eat much red meat (I eat some chicken, and that should give a bit of the carnosine for muscles... but beta-alanine still helped endurance and recovery, so who knows?). Since I eat a lot of fish, though, taurine and l-arginine supplementation seems like something I wouldn't need (never tried though). Might be good for vegetarians?
(*) Misc stuff: melatonin (yeah, I have that around for occasional use... good for the sleepies, better than those shitty histamines they sell OTC) and R-ALA.

R-ALA is the only one I've heard called a pure nootropic sometimes, chiefly as an antioxidant. The research seems unclear to me, though. It's (oddly) a great hangover prevention tool though.

Personally, the supplements I regularly take that would be considered nootropics would be just these: piracetam + centrophenoxine, and either EGCG or green tea itself.
 
To be fair most of the things he listed are in a preworkout powder I take. So if I listed all the supplements separately that are contained in my two scoops of powder I take once a day it make look something like his except maybe not at those dosages.

I don't know if he is taking all those things individually or not ( i wouldn't go through all that trouble) but I am getting most of those from my one prework out supplement.
 
electrodevo said:
That massive stack is longer than it really should be IMHO. It consists of:
(*) Massive doses of many core vitamins and minerals. (I'd just stick to a multivitamin personally. And even more idea, eat right.)
(*) Fish oil (eating lots of fish is better) + DHA (a bit redundant)
(*) Athletic supplements: creatine, beta-alanine, taurine, l-arginine. I find creatine and beta alanine real beneficial personally, and it makes sense because I don't eat much red meat (I eat some chicken, and that should give a bit of the carnosine for muscles... but beta-alanine still helped endurance and recovery, so who knows?). Since I eat a lot of fish, though, taurine and l-arginine supplementation seems like something I wouldn't need (never tried though). Might be good for vegetarians?
(*) Misc stuff: melatonin (yeah, I have that around for occasional use... good for the sleepies, better than those shitty histamines they sell OTC) and R-ALA.

R-ALA is the only one I've heard called a pure nootropic sometimes, chiefly as an antioxidant. The research seems unclear to me, though. It's (oddly) a great hangover prevention tool though.

Personally, the supplements I regularly take that would be considered nootropics would be just these: piracetam + centrophenoxine, and either EGCG or green tea itself.
Click to expand...

I really agree with this, good point about it mainly being vitamins and minerals to take mostly when you don't trust multivitamin manufacturers mix them for you...

People should be careful with anti-oxidants. R-ALA may be a worthwhile supplement but in general it is wrong to think that more anti-oxidants is always better. Radicals may most often be bad for you and it can be okay to scavenge some of them but some oxidative effects are natural and necessary. Just something I picked up that I think is reasonable and good to repeat.
Hangovers may in part be from oxidative stress which can come from radicals. And anti-oxidants typically scavenge those, so what is odd about R-ALA's suggested use for that?

@Electrodevo: I have EGCG(s) but have not given that a lot of attention because I was under the impression that the proposed health effects would not be noticeable. Can you provide information that these compounds are actually known to work noticeably, and more specifically: as nootropic?
 
Solipsis said:
@Electrodevo: I have EGCG(s) but have not given that a lot of attention because I was under the impression that the proposed health effects would not be noticeable. Can you provide information that these compounds are actually known to work noticeably, and more specifically: as nootropic?
Click to expand...

EGCG (really "green tea extract" with a standardized amount of EGCG) is actually a new supplement for me, I've only started trying that (or green tea when I have the time to make it) in the last couple of weeks.

The main thing that I've noticed personally is EGCG / green tea boosts energy *without* a whole lot of caffeine. That is a good thing in my book, not that coffee is too horrible, but caffeine is not the best thing in the world. This is consistent with what I see about tea in the wiki and studies. Of course I imagine you can get a similar thing with black tea which would be quite cheaper than the "trendy" green tea. Green tea does taste better than black tea to me, though, don't need no milk and sugar for that.

There are a bunch of lab studies promising miracles based on anti-oxidant properties, but nothing conclusive on a large scale, so I try to not take in account all these miracle claims. Actually in pill form I think it's possible to consume way too much and do harm, because tea is an anti-oxidant (kind of like R-ALA). You have to keep in mind that a pill represents X cups of tea and keep it at sane levels.

Whether I notice anything more than the energy boost long-term, that remains to be seen, but I'm not expecting it. However energy boosters are often considered "nootropics" by some. It's definitely not the classic 'racetam nootropic effect though.

Regarding R-ALA, I guess its only odd because it wasn't expected. Most "hangover prevention" chemicals I think are useless, except for water. This makes me think R-ALA would also be quite useful after other oxidative-stressful-type chemicals as well...
 
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Moved 2 posts that were about racetams to this subthread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/657564-Nootropics-Subthread-Racetams
Please people, use that one and the Noopept subthread if you can.

Interesting what you say about the green tea extract but I wonder if those extracts (mine is 50% EGCGs) don't just contain caffeine after all? Are EGCGs actually supposed to give you energy, through what proposed mechanism? I will try and see if I find info on that.

Unfortunately I can't find my green tea extract at the moment though. Should be laying around somewhere between my athletic supplements...
 
Solipsis said:
Interesting what you say about the green tea extract but I wonder if those extracts (mine is 50% EGCGs) don't just contain caffeine after all?
Click to expand...

Supposedly, according to the label, the caffeine is at <10mg which should be threshold dose or less.

Of course, supplements are supplements and you never know.
 
I forgot about this thread, and was glad to see all the new posts.

I appreciate all the advice. It's probably way more than I need, and I don't know why I purchased the DHA after the Fish oil, as it is redundant.

I actually do take these individually, including all the powders. I don't use the pre-workout mixes, because, like Solipsis remarked, I don't trust the manufacturers to mix them for me. It's quite tedious, especially since I do one large stack in the morning, and a smaller redose stack in the afternoon.

Thanks for the advice. I still plan on using the rest of my inventory, but I may significantly lower my intake of supplements.
 
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Not sure if it is mentioned, and it probably needs to be said in the HL forum, but forget about fish oils like the Omega-3 stuff. From what I understand the research to back up that they are actually helping, it's not there. I think it is a huge hype. Anyone shocked by that is encouraged to fetch some true academic results showing why we would need to eat them.

Also, some kinds like the omega-6 or omega-9 (not sure which) is actually damaging to the heart (IIRC). :\

Chemist friend recently reminded me of that, and I found this site and the name Ben Goldacre was familiar to me, I am pretty sure I read his stuff before:

http://www.badscience.net/category/fish-oil/
 
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Awesome, that is interesting. I think I would appreciate anxiolytic / adaptogenic qualities if it has them, I wonder how lasting / therapeutic they are.
If I have a big tax godsend which might very well be happening, I just might order some for IM / SC.
 
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