The Big & Dandy Methoxphenidine / MXP / 2-MeO-Diphenidine Thread

[khanna]

The Methoxphenidine (2-MeO-Diphenidine) Thread
1-(1-(2-methoxyphenyl)-2-phenylethyl)piperidine

​

Warnings - MUST read before use:

- Long winded Duration: The duration of this compound should not underestimated, the effects last and linger very long. Durations of ~12-18 hours have been reported, and dosing higher or redosing may lead to significant increase in this duration. Before taking this drug, consider this and make sure you have nothing to do for the day(s) to come!
- Avoid Redosing: Redosing may be very risky as compounds like diphenidine and methoxphenidine can result in amnesia. This may lead to severely debilitated self control, perhaps on an even totally different level than addiction issues. Avoid it especially / at least if it is your first time.
- Careful dosage: Suggested starting doses are 50 mg, slowly building up to that and figuring out the dose-response curve instead of pushing the envelope! This means that effects may very suddenly get seriously / problematically strong at or above a certain dosage level.
- Unpredictability / inconsistency: methoxphenidine has shown a tendency to intoxicate users to different extents off of the same dosage level as previous dosages even in those tolerant to it and similar substances
- Stomach contents: methoxphenidine has shown a tendency to be metabolized very slowly and can greatly intoxicate someone who has not eaten properly while the same amount dosed on a full stomach may not hit as hard. It appears to be very fat-soluble, so it may get stuck in/to fatty food in your stomach or fatty tissues in your body before being released more slowly.
To be sure, assume it is like PCP type compounds that can linger in the body for days if not weeks!

*Your previous experience, even with other dissociatives, does not grant you control over potentially dangerous drugs like this one. Do NOT use it as if it were ketamine or MXE !

Compounds in this category of dissociatives, together with PCP & analogues have been known to not only cause amnesia, but also manic and psychotic behavior, far too often with disastrous result and injury to self and others! Be extremely careful.
Always weigh your doses with an accurate milligram scale - never eyeball!

[original post:]
1-(1-(2-methoxyphenyl)-2-phenylethyl)piperidine / 2-MeO-Diphenidine. A vendor is now stocking this, seems to be a replacement for MXE. Anyone have any info on it?

 

[MagickalKat777]

Seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

The only report I found on it the person blew through 750mg of it in a night, leaving only 14mg of their sample left over...

That ended up with a 12 hour duration with effects until 18 hours.

At least it was an oral dose, not snorted...

 

[Solipsis]

I wouldn't dispute that this would be a dubious compound to become available publicly, but how would it be worse than diphenidine itself? Both are examples of MK-801 related compounds (in that they both have the diphenyl structure incorporated), that have not been explored in humans.
However this methoxylated version does not seem to be in the Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry article diphenidine itself is in, so I guess this one is slightly more going out on a limb.

That this guinea pig person abused it and overdid it is not responsible or justified, but I can think of a handful other reasons why it happened besides the drug causing an amnestic black hole in which a person might do crazy or reckless things (which by the way diphenidine is also reported to have the potential for). E.g. being the first to try it makes it infinitely more important to titrate carefully enough not to be surprised by a steep dose-response curve which can put you in that hole. Also a person who is willing to boldly go where no guinea pig has gone before might not be the most careful or responsible to begin with (special cases like Shulgin exempt), and experimental urges which is plenty of times combined with thrill-seeking behavior can very well lead to this.

Again: I don't think this all sounds like a great idea to just dive into, but I am not really seeing the big difference with diphenidine...

Also, drugs like 3-MeO-PCP and 3-MeO-PCE can also get veryyy fucking manic (which is what this 'nothing could possibly go wrong' in the report sounds like), and I have felt that edge even though I was quite reasonable and careful with my doses. I've felt that edge and my roommate / best friend also walked that line, and maybe tried to take off like a plane from that line incidentally.

Obviously basically implicitly promising it is one of the best dissociatives available (since the ban) after having taken an apparent overdosis which isn't even truly known, is actually incredibly risky. Especially with the type of dissociatives that can produce amnestic black holes or garden variety mania. 3-MeO-PCP and 3-MeO-PCE are best kept under at least some kind of control by vendors, like referral or inquiry based. Basically some form of social check.

Even though I am well versed and seasoned in psychedelics and dissociatives I think I am going to stick to K and MXE.

To illustrate the structural difference between diphenidine and methoxphenidine:

Left: Diphenidine Right: Methoxphenidine (2-MeO-Diphenidine)

 

[MagickalKat777]

This is going to be a disaster. They're already naming the chemical "MXP" which people are undoubtedly going to associate with "oh this is like MXE, I can snort this shit all day and I'll be feeling good!"

Also, note that the dose was taken orally. How many people, even on this forum, take these chemicals orally?

Its going to flood the market. The vendor has it prominently displayed at the very top of their chemical list and describes it as such: "Methoxphenidine / MXP acts as a selective antagonist at the NMDA receptor and is also acts on the dopamine transport, inhibiting the reuptake of dopamine defining the compound also a (DRI dopamine reuptake inhibitor).

Based on this, it is useful to researchers for in vitro modelling of NMDA & Dopamine transport interaction. Researchers may also use MXP as a reference sample for their GC/MS, FTIR or NMR analysis catalogue."

I wouldn't touch it or diphenidine with a 10 foot pole.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Just thought I'd chime in.

I don't know why someone would blow through 750mg of it in a night. There's no redose compulsion on the stuff at all. I was lucky to get my hands on some early and have tested it at a wide range of doses. The only reason I could see someone going through such an amount is because redosing is fairly ineffective so much larger amounts are necessary.

It's certainly far less compulsive than MXE at any rate - MXE despite being not the most effective in redoses I always ended up redosing anyway, with this stuff I always felt like the one was enough.

This stuff has its similarities to Diphenidine, but has more depth to it and is more positive/pleasant. Diphenidine was a nice substance to someone like me who enjoys dissociatives in general, but it didn't really remind me much of MXE, Ketamine, or others that people tend to be looking to replace. Methoxphenidine/2-MeO-Diphenidine to me felt somewhere between MXE and Diphenidine - it was significantly more euphoric and warm than Diphenidine, and weirder, but still a little more clear-headed and easy to control than MXE.

Regarding ROA, I don't know what the batch going around now is like but if the material is anything like what I tested then yes most people will be taking it orally - very very unpleasant to snort/plug/etc. It's a shame that it is though, lately something seems to be up with my oral drug metabolism and everything takes quite some time to kick in for me and lasts longer than for other people - Diphenidine and Methoxphenidine were especially affected by this, and I'd love to be able to avoid it by snorting.

Anyway a quick run down:
- Can go further/deeper with this than Diphenidine
- Less neutral than Diphenidine
- Very positive/uplifting
- Quite stimulating
- Dosage is lower, ~80-85mg Methoxphenidine is similar potency to ~110-115mg Diphenidine
- Oral is probably best ROA but maybe the powder is suited for snorting now, if you do snort/plug/take sublingually then try a very small amount first before considering doing it with more.

It's a nice dissociative, can get very introspective and has quite a bit of depth to it like MXE and Ketamine do. Diphenidine is nice and certainly an interesting novelty to try, but this one is more of a solid dissociative overall that I think a lot of people will like. I think though after my comparisons to MXE some people will go in expecting a replacement and that's the wrong approach imo - it's a dissociative that is in a similar ballpark to MXE, but the experience is unique, just like how MXE and Ketamine are similar and yet very different at the same time.

In short, I really liked it personally. YMMV. I'd be very interested to see what others think of it.

If anyone has any questions about this one, feel free to ask, since I've tried it a fair few times now. I have a couple of reports and I'll post one or both up soon.

 

[no_id]

I read 2 trip report but aside the guy with 750mg dosage, what's the duration of the high with normal dose ? residual effect, how long ?

 

[Jesusgreen]

Alright I posted up a trip report. I have a couple of others but one was written with notable tolerance and I only wrote half the report before getting distracted and forgetting about it, and the other was a low dose that there wasn't a whole lot to say about (i.e. pleasant headspace, motivated and enthusiastic, stimulated, only very light dissociative effects - not much else to explain).

(Methoxphenidine / 82mg) - Experienced - Worthwhile addition

Lasted 7-8 hours for me, but due to my weird metabolism and how Diphenidine lasted 8 for me and 4 for others, and what I've heard from a couple of other people who got to sample this, it seems this one lasts 4-5 hours for other people. This is with oral of course - if the current batch available is easier to snort/plug/etc then I'd imagine those ROAs would be more like 3 hours or so, maybe shorter.

There's a nice afterglow that leaves you feeling good for the rest of the day (if you dose in the morning) or for most of the next day (if you dose at night). Similar to MXE/Ketamine afterglow I found.

 

[khanna]

Here's a thread on reddit about it with some interesting comments:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DrugNerds/comments/1rde6z/new_rc_methoxphenidine/


...

80mg seem to be as strong as 110mg Diphenidine.

Rather clear headed dissociation, but very lovely! Don't expect it to be very Ketamine/MXE like.

Why 2-methoxy and not 3-methoxy, if you want to make a methoxetamine analog? 2-substituents in general seem to increase the needed dose for these dissociatives (see e.g. ketamine and the deschloromethoxy variant). not good because the parent compound here already has quite a high dosage

 

[boselect]

Seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

The only report I found on it the person blew through 750mg of it in a night, leaving only 14mg of their sample left over...

That ended up with a 12 hour duration with effects until 18 hours.

At least it was an oral dose, not snorted...

I cannot bear to snort anything. So it's oral or rectal for me.
Massive tolerance to these compounds was also an issue at the time of testing (and has been an issue in the past with MXE).

Where posted I do state that I went massively overboard in regard to dosing, and do not recommend them doses whatsoever.

 

[hamhurricane]

Why 2-methoxy and not 3-methoxy, if you want to make a methoxetamine analog? 2-substituents in general seem to increase the needed dose for these dissociatives (see e.g. ketamine and the deschloromethoxy variant). not good because the parent compound here already has quite a high dosage

I see a lot of posts conflating the words dissociative and arylcyclohexylamine, the two are not synonymous and little from arylcyclohexylamine SAR will carry over to the diarylethylamines like diphenidine, especially not the numbering system! If one were to extrapolate SAR from another structural class it would likely have to be a dibenzocycloheptene such as MK-801. 2-MeO-diphenidine is not not a novel compound (it is mentioned in one of the late 1980s Searle patents) but the 9-position in MK-801, which corresponds to the 2-position in diphenidine, has not been studied despite the seemingly exhaustive exploration of that class, so unfortunately 9-MeO-MK-801 can't be used as a data point to test the validity of a dibenzocycloheptene/diarylethylamine SAR overlap. That said, very few ring substitutions increase the potency of MK-801 so I am impressed that RC vendors were able to produce a more potent derivative of diphenidine so quickly.

 

[25I_am_so_wonderfu]

Off topic but I've always wondered how some of you people have the money and time to buy and try all these brand new chemicals so quickly. Whatevs

 

[boselect]

Off topic but I've always wondered how some of you people have the money and time to buy and try all these brand new chemicals so quickly. Whatevs

Jobs and weekends.

 

[Dioxy]

Jobs and weekends.

Hahaha. Spot on.

That or jobs that allow trials on-the-job. One of the benefits of self employment.

 

[lastest]

Encouraged by reports that this is closer in subjective affect to the arycylohexylamines that diphenide, which I find to be dissociating in a completely unsatisfying and rather unpleasant way, I received a half gram of methoxphenidine this afternoon. As the oral route has been explored already, and as the sandy powder I've received looks much more schnoz-friendly than the moist clumpiness of diphenide, I decided to stick some up my nose after giving it a good chop. The good news is that it is very easy on the sinuses, gliding up there almost as painlessly as MXE. Two 30mg lines seemed to have little effect so I've insuflated a third and I think something is in the offing. The results will be muddied by the fact that I did a couple of fairly small bumps of eph earlier (although that's pretty much left my system now) and I've done a total of 12mg of flubromazepam and 2mg of diclazepam since lunch-time, plus fairly big gulp of codeine solution. As you might imagine I am struggling to stay awake right now, but if I don't konk out within the next hour or so I may be able to give some indication of the efficacy of this new NMDA antagonist when imbibed via the intranasal ROA. I hope it does work because it's a joy to snort, somewhat surprising considering it's closest available relative has the consistency of wet rock salt.

Yeah, something's going on. I'll report back when it's run it's course.

 

[slo mo]

This is going to be a disaster. They're already naming the chemical "MXP" which people are undoubtedly going to associate with "oh this is like MXE, I can snort this shit all day and I'll be feeling good!"

Also, note that the dose was taken orally. How many people, even on this forum, take these chemicals orally?

Its going to flood the market. The vendor has it prominently displayed at the very top of their chemical list and describes it as such: "Methoxphenidine / MXP acts as a selective antagonist at the NMDA receptor and is also acts on the dopamine transport, inhibiting the reuptake of dopamine defining the compound also a (DRI dopamine reuptake inhibitor).

Based on this, it is useful to researchers for in vitro modelling of NMDA & Dopamine transport interaction. Researchers may also use MXP as a reference sample for their GC/MS, FTIR or NMR analysis catalogue."

I wouldn't touch it or diphenidine with a 10 foot pole.

Is there proof of the pharmacology, other than what the vendor claims? Is there any serotonin activity with this?

 

[MagickalKat777]

If diphenidine doesn't have serotonin activity, I wouldn't think that the methoxy group would add that activity but I'd ask in Neuroscience because I have a very minimal understanding of SAR and even less when it comes to dissociatives.

Diphenidine bears almost no structural resemblance to MXE so even while the vendor is trying to sell it as an MXE replacement, it is actually quite far from one.

 

[bloodshed344]

If diphenidine doesn't have serotonin activity, I wouldn't think that the methoxy group would add that activity but I'd ask in Neuroscience because I have a very minimal understanding of SAR and even less when it comes to dissociatives.

Diphenidine bears almost no structural resemblance to MXE so even while the vendor is trying to sell it as an MXE replacement, it is actually quite far from one.

As far as I've seen, the addition of a methoxy group on dissociatives does increase the affinity for serotonin (but I could be wrong), but I really don't know if this would translate to the structure of diphenidine as it is quite different from an arylcyclohexamine

 

[MagickalKat777]

As far as I've seen, the addition of a methoxy group on dissociatives does increase the affinity for serotonin (but I could be wrong), but I really don't know if this would translate to the structure of diphenidine as it is quite different from an arylcyclohexamine

That was my confusion. I'm not familiar with structures like diphenidine at all.

From watching everyone go at it in Neuroscience (and ADD when it was called that), I've picked up some general things but not much when it leaves tryptamines.

 

[Solipsis]

Maybe this explains it a bit:

MXE is not shown but ketamine is on the top left:

1 = ketamine
2 = PCP
3 = MK-801 / dizolcipine
4 = DXM
5a = DPEA
5b = DPMEA I guess
6 = DEP / diphenidine

Diphenidine borrows features from PCP and MK-801, but structures of other arylcyclohexylamines like ketamine and MXE are also reflected considering the aromatic ring and distance to the amine function.
So diphenidine was not designed as an arylcyclohexylamine but a more general NMDA antagonist. The NMDA receptor apparently has various binding sites, and while diphenidine may not bind the same as ketamine/MXE or at sites they do, I think it is similar enough to PCP and MK-801 to suppose diphenidine binds to the PCP-site like those two do. So ham and others have a good point that simplifying SAR is not reliable or appropriate but adding this methoxy to diphenidine, even if it is now technically the 9-position or '2-position and not 2-position, it is still meta on the phenyl ring marked A in the above pic like it is with MXE.
edit: Sorry! actually that is not true, it is 3-MeO on MXE which is meta... but the numbering on the phenyl is the 2-position for this methoxphenidine making it ortho. Check the web for the difference between ortho/meta/para.

My point it, it doesn't seem like a strategy that is coming out of the blue - however marketing it as more MXE-like is indeed very presumptuous since it is only structurally true as far as we know.

 

[petebog]

How come everyone seems to be banging on about MK-801 now? Has it ever been available on the RC market? I'd never heard of it before this week.