The Big & Dandy Methoxphenidine / MXP / 2-MeO-Diphenidine Thread

[MagickalKat777]

Thanks Solipsis. Seeing them all lined up like that actually really helps.

I can see the structural similarities between PCP and MK-801 easily... I didn't see it before simply because the images I've seen are drawn differently than you have it here. Either way, the similarities between PCP and MK-801 do not make me any more interested in the molecule. If anything, its more of a kiss of death for me. I've had PCP and while I tend to love dissociatives, I couldn't stand PCP. I can't see myself enjoying MK-801 either nor would I ever touch it if it was available on the market.

Would you guess that this would have serotonin activity based on its SAR?

Anyway, carry on folks, be safe!

 

[hamhurricane]

How come everyone seems to be banging on about MK-801 now? Has it ever been available on the RC market? I'd never heard of it before this week.

Because diarylethylamines may bind in a similar orientation to MK-801.

As far as I've seen, the addition of a methoxy group on dissociatives does increase the affinity for serotonin (but I could be wrong), but I really don't know if this would translate to the structure of diphenidine as it is quite different from an arylcyclohexamine

A MeO-sub can do any of a million things depending on the base molecule, none of the known arylcyclohexylamines are particularly strong SERT ligands, 3-MeO-PCP binds with 216µM affinity, which is higher than methoxetamine but still unlikely to exert a major effect at "therapeutic" doses. In the instance of diarylethylamines the binding data is largely restricted to NMDA, methoxphenidine actually has decreased NMDA affinity relative to diphenidine but because these compounds are so lipophilic (almost breaking a logP of 5) they may be in a pharmacokineticly precarious position complicating predications about their in vivo potency. The methoxy group in methoxphenidine decreases affinity by almost 150nM over diphenidine but it also makes it a hair less lipophilic, which could explain the similar potencies.

EDIT: that is assuming they have similar potencies, I don't believe that has really been established yet.

 

[lastest]

As an update on my intranasal trial that I mentioned earlier, I did in fact pass out from all the benzos and codeine I'd taken - unsurprisingly as it was the first time I've used benzos after a self-imposed abstinence of several months. I had assumed that I'd slept through the effects of the methoxphenidine and experienced what I took to be a hazy afterglow during the following day.

However, this evening I insufflated around 80mg, slightly less than Jesusgreen reported as an affective oral dose, and two hours later have experienced no effect whatsoever, positive or negative. I have a tendency to experience psychosomatic effects from drugs I've taken that I think *should* be working but I'm not even getting that. Sober as a judge. The afterglow on Thursday was therefore probably residual effect from the Flubromazepam which seems to be a pretty long-acting benzo.

Either the intranasal dose is much higher than the oral dose, or 2-MeO-Diphenidine is not nasally active. A shame really, as it's one of the most painless substances I've ever snorted - almost as easy on the nose as methoxetamine, easier for sure than 3-MeO-PCP and incomparably less painful that diphenidine, which is somewhat effective via this ROA although hardly worth the pain. Maybe I've got a dud batch, but this seems unlikely as (naming no names of course) I imagine most people here are buying from the same source as I am. I'm working over the weekend but on Sunday night I'll try it orally, I should have enough left for a decent assay, and as I've explored diphenide quite extensively (despite rather disliking it) I'll be able to give a direct comparison to add to Jesusgreen's.

As a side note, despite what I said about how painless this is to snort I did blow a fair bit of blood out of my nose the morning after my first trial so it's obviously not that good for the old honker.

 

[PsychoFrodo]

Here’s my trip report from my first experience with Methoxphenidine:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...irst-time-use-Mash-up?p=11989269#post11989269


Firstly, vendor claims that this is an MXE replacement don't match with my experience. The arylcyclohexylamine group had a euphoric magic to them that this drug (along with Diphenidine) just does not have. One of the many great things about the arylcyclohexylamines is that all you needed was one drug, and that provided a total experience for the night. This isn’t the place to wax poetic about MXE, 3-MeO-PCP etc. but it might help to put aside any expectations that Methoxphenidine is going to hit that spot.

Having said that it’s not without its interests for the dissociative connoisseur, and perhaps in time, with a bit of adjustments, it could prove to be an interesting addition.


Some thoughts:

For me, Methoxphenidine has an initial energy to it that Diphenidine lacks. As I came up I felt good, slightly speedy and energised, however this soon wore off and left me in that slightly vacant, emotionless place that Diphenidine did. Methoxphenidine also gave a more gentle, pleasant ride than Diphenidine; there was some rushing at the beginning and it was a more gradual build, rather that the ‘falling off the cliff’ experience that I had on Diphenidine.

If I give this another go I’d think about increasing the initial dosage a bit (88 was a good starter but for me, 110mg might be good) and add in an empathogen/entactogen around the 1.5-2 hour mark to see if I can get some warmth and joy into the mix.

Definitely an improvement on Diphenidine though, and an Etizolam chaser at the end of the evening rounds things off beautifully.

 

[lastest]

Well, I sure did make a right old hash of bio-assaying this new compound. Most of it went up my nose Wednesday night which turned out to be a 100% ineffective ROA, unless it takes very large doses to work this way - which would make it a crappy way to dose anyway. Tonight I orally dosed the remainder of my half g (just shy of 100mg) but did it right on on top of of a heaping plateful of pork and roast potatoes that I'd eaten about ten minutes before. Ideal conditions, I think you'll all agree, to orally test a compound. Maybe it'll kick in in about nine hours or so. A spectacularly lame attempt at a contribution to the sum of human knowledge. I'll get me coat.

I intend to order a full gram next week and do things properly. I'll include the results as an edit to this post to avoid taking up any more space on the thread. Wow, I'm not good at this.

 

[Dioxy]

Well, I sure did make a right old hash of bio-assaying this new compound..

Worry not, lastest, you are not alone... I've just taken the last of what I had left on top of some diclaz and Etiz, on a stomach full of food...
Great HR work, I'm sure you agree, hah.

However, I spent a very enjoyable night on Methoxphenidine recently in more suitable conditions, I would say that it's a marginally more rounded, more stimulating dissociative, and roughly equipotent to Diphenidine but more forgiving on redosing. I hope it's more forgiving, anyway, because Diph is a disaster zone when it comes to redosing.

I've only noticed oral consumption being effective, but haven't fully assayed nasally.

I'm not really sure that either of these chemicals are suitable for mainstream consumption, but c'est la vie.

 

[lastest]

Hi Dioxy

Well as I've had a reply I thought I renege on my promise to edit rather than post again for continuity's sake. I've bombed about about 120mg and I'm thoroughly enjoying typing with one eye closed because it reminds of me doing so under the influence of methoxetamine etc. Yeah, it's not as good but it's a NMDA antagonist on which you can actually have a nice evening being confused by a movie rather than being sucked down into a shrieking vortex of insanity which is my experience of diphenide. Thumbs up from me.

 

[petebog]

Tried this last night at ~80mg oral and had a really good time. Very enjoyable confusion. A bit of the classic dissociative staggering when walking around. Took a long time to peak though, a good 2 hours I'd say. I'd eaten previously but only snacks in the preceding few hours.

Should mention that some GHB was also consumed about an hour in and this is definitely a fun combination. I could easily identify the distinct effects of the methoxphenidine when they became apparent though.

Nothing was felt for the 1st hour, rising to a peak over the next 60 mins. Full effects lasted about another 2 or 3 hours and seemed to come in waves.

I was playing GTA 5 and got stuck in a glitch where it wouldn't let me complete a mission. This was confusing the hell out of me and I had to wait for my housemate to return from the shop so he could confirm it was the game that was broken and not me. 8( :D

I would definitely recommend this dosage for an undemanding fun weeknight trip. I'd previously tried smaller dosages along with other stuff on a night out and couldn't definitely say what effect they were having, but they seemed to up the fun factor nonetheless.

I like this stuff a lot. I can't compare to Diphenidine as I've never I've never tried it.

 

[crOOk]

[...]rather that the ‘falling off the cliff’ experience that I had on Diphenidine.

[...]than being sucked down into a shrieking vortex of insanity which is my experience of diphenide.

Haha fuck this stuff, I want to try Diphenidine SO BAD right now after hearing that. Sample on it's way, I'm pretty sure this one is for me. :D

 

[boselect]

How is the addictive character in this compared to thw classic dissios?


Ive used this class of drugs in with alot of succes in spirutual work and self therapy.

Problem is though that their addictive nature makes them hard to have around compared to psychs.

I was actually hoping for a not so euphoric dissio to come around since that might have similar benefits without the moreish nature.

It is not addictive whatsoever in my experience, but I don't have any trouble with seeing several large bags of drugs I really like in my cabinet and not taking any of them.
It all depends on your personality and will here.

I have noticed that tolerance levels on this do take a little while to fade.
Last weekend I tested on different levels amounting to 600mg over the whole weekend, last night I tested 160mg rectally to a much milder experience than I had planned for. There was still most definitely dissociation, but not nearly the level I had anticipated or aimed for.

I must note, this has far less 'explosive' results when taken rectally than Diphenidine does... take from that what you will.

 

[Dioxy]

Re: potential for addiction, anyone susceptible to the allure of dissociatives will be as 'at risk' with Methoxphenidine as with any other.

However, some important things to note about this one in my experience... The long duration and the danger in redosing too soon lowers its compulsivity somewhat. It doesn't suffer so much from the 'fuck it I'll just have another line, it's been 20 minutes already' attitude that can so easily empty a bag of MXE/K without too much hassle. The fact that it seems best taken orally also makes each dose more of an 'event' like taking a pill, rather than a 'cheeky extra one' like with cocaine or ketamine.

Secondly, both of the available *phenidines seem to have an extremely steep dose/response curve, as many have noted here. I can confirm that this is true of Methoxphenidine as well as Diphenidine, although I can't be of much comparative help here due to a high tolerance to both. And yes, they do appear to be cross-tolerant of each other, as we might expect. Interestingly, even though my tolerance to them has risen, the margin of error seems to stay very, very small - the difference between an enjoyable/mildly confusing dose, and a complete descent into oblivion, is roughly 10-20mg in my experience so far. Some people say Methox appears to be slightly more potent than Diph, I would call them *roughly* equipotent but for the love of god don't assume I'm right about that (lol).

Thirdly, both drugs seem to build a very quick short term tolerance. A two-day binge is about the most any potential fiend will get out of them, and it takes (roughly, IME) a week of abstinence for a single standard dose to have the desired effect.

That's the long answer. The short one is this: I find myself thinking about Diph/Methox quite a lot. As a guilty-pleading Disso fiend, that triggers my warning lights. I don't think the risk of addiction is anything like as high as with the classic arylcyclohexylamines, but it is not to be taken lightly.

 

[clubcard]

Maybe this explains it a bit:

MXE is not shown but ketamine is on the top left:

1 = ketamine
2 = PCP
3 = MK-801 / dizolcipine
4 = DXM
5a = DPEA
5b = DPMEA I guess
6 = DEP / diphenidine

Diphenidine borrows features from PCP and MK-801, but structures of other arylcyclohexylamines like ketamine and MXE are also reflected considering the aromatic ring and distance to the amine function.
So diphenidine was not designed as an arylcyclohexylamine but a more general NMDA antagonist. The NMDA receptor apparently has various binding sites, and while diphenidine may not bind the same as ketamine/MXE or at sites they do, I think it is similar enough to PCP and MK-801 to suppose diphenidine binds to the PCP-site like those two do. So ham and others have a good point that simplifying SAR is not reliable or appropriate but adding this methoxy to diphenidine, even if it is now technically the 9-position or '2-position and not 2-position, it is still meta on the phenyl ring marked A in the above pic like it is with MXE.
edit: Sorry! actually that is not true, it is 3-MeO on MXE which is meta... but the numbering on the phenyl is the 2-position for this methoxphenidine making it ortho. Check the web for the difference between ortho/meta/para.

My point it, it doesn't seem like a strategy that is coming out of the blue - however marketing it as more MXE-like is indeed very presumptuous since it is only structurally true as far as we know.

Interesting. I read the Ki data (at the PCP-site of the NMDA receptor) for DXM wasn't very high (i.e. very low) and that the effects were more or less due to DXO. I just point this out to QSAR spotters.

 

[enigmatiq]

I tried methoxphenidine last night and it was more powerful than diphenidine. They're both more similar to DXM than MXE because of the oral administration. Insufflating it causes a burn that I don't wish upon my worst enemies. The smell it produces is reminiscent of a pharmacy.

I took quite large doses, one 85, two 60 and one 110mg because of my tolerance to diphenidine from the week before. If you look here on BL you'll find my first four trials with diphenidine. I might post my TR on methoxphenidine later on here as well.

My last dose was a bit powerful, producing a very short immersive vaped DMT-like experience, which was rather profound. I don't suggest taking a dose like mine for the first time. Your first dose on diphenidine should be something like 90 for a very light experience and 110mg for a possible hole experience. I think 100mg for the first time would be a solid dissociative experience. You can also experience some tachycardia and a rise in bodytemperature, as well as time dilation and varying effects. These will come across as random waves of inebration with profound Zen-like feelings. I also came across quite a few joyful synchronicties and felt this drug has quite the potential for introspection and self-improvement.

I am not sure about the dosage of methoxphenidine without any tolerance, but I imagine this would be from 60 to 80 mg. I think anything above 80 mg can produce hole like effects, where one may forget his name and his sense of purpose. I do not recommend dosing high.

These drugs are very empathogenic and can cause waves of tranquility provided you're in the right mindset. If you are not, I suggest not taking this drug. Don't expect a replacement for MXE, but something totally new. This drug has a lot of potential and I think it might be wonderful for combinations with psychedelics, but I haven't tested this yet so I can't comment on this yet.

 

[lastest]

I've used this stuff loads in quite a short space of time now and results have been very variable, but I've definitely had more fun with this than diphenidine. I never once had a good time on diphenidine on any dosage or level or dissociation, but on methoxydipenidine this I've had experiences comparable to the arylcyclohexylamines in terms of enjoyment, but different in character.

The most fun I've had so far is listening to Goodspeed You Black Emperor while watching the itunes visualizer with the lights out and being convinced that what ever had constituted reality before had been an illusion and that I was awakening into a new state of existence. The beer bottle I was clutching in my hand was some kind of weapon or septre that I had been issued with for some task that was soon to begin. It was beyond cool, and more akin to a state of lucid delirium than dissociation. I managed to successfully use the toilet at one point during all of this so at least part of my brain still new what was up. I had redosed at least once to reach this state and I'm afraid I couldn't tell you the total amount I had ingested on that occasion.

As others have mentioned, tolerance builds fast and I've used larger doses since and reached nothing more than a wobbly-eyed drunken state.

Definitely fun, definitely holds potential for profound experiences, but to be used with caution if you value your sanity and/or bank balance.

Having said that, after only one night off 120mg went down that hatch half an our ago (with an option on the same again), my itunes playlist is lined up and my fridge is well-stocked with Asahi. I shall catch y'all on the other side.

 

[Dioxy]

I just got back from hospital. I won't mention the dose, because it was stupid, but I had a seizure. This drug is not entirely safe. Be careful.

 

[psood0nym]

^You better mention the dose to give other people inclined towards dosing stupidly a better idea of what "pushing it" might be, though, heh. Were any other drugs involved? What was the ROA? Glad you're in one piece.

 

[sartorius]

I'm completely new to dissociatives and have signed up here as there seems to be as much information as anywhere else on Methoxphenidine. I'd agree with others that as this particular substance is quite new, all positive and negative experiences are going to be useful to find out about.
So far, I've only tried a 5mg allergy test followed by 35mg, both taken orally in gelcaps one day about 2 weeks ago. I felt something, but not really any strong effects I could describe.

I've got a quiet day tomorrow so am planning to try a higher dose. I'm only considering oral as ROA again this time and not planning on combining it with anything else. There seems to be quite a variation in dosage levels and subsequent effects from what I've read so far, so I'm debating whether to go 80mg in one hit or start with 60mg and redose after an hour or so if it all seems a bit underwhelming again.

Any advice would be welcome!

 

[Dioxy]

^You better mention the dose to give other people inclined towards dosing stupidly a better idea of what "pushing it" might be, though, heh. Were any other drugs involved? What was the ROA? Glad you're in one piece.

You make a valid point psood, and thanks The dose was 200mg, followed by 200mg 2 hours later.

I have a high tolerance to NMDA action of everything, and whilst I've pushed Diphenidine up to about 200mg without ill-effect (HR note - stupid dose, tolerance, etc) that drug has a higher relative affinity for NMDA. I'd speculate that the DRI of this drug pushed my blood pressure & temperature up beyond a safe level, because they were WAY up when I got to the hospital. Pure speculation on my part, but the doctor had a list of observed side-effects (they're well on top of RCs at the NHS), amongst which were high BP & temp and seizures.

 

[Dioxy]

There seems to be quite a variation in dosage levels and subsequent effects from what I've read so far, so I'm debating whether to go 80mg in one hit or start with 60mg and redose after an hour or so if it all seems a bit underwhelming again.

Any advice would be welcome!

Most people seem to enjoy it at about 80mg, but I would wait 2 hours before redosing if you start lower.

 

[lastest]

The last two posts make it all the more clear that the right thing to do is come on and say goodbye forever to all you guys who are so wild and wise and brave (and I mean that sincerely, this sort of thing does have it's place in expanding what is possible to think and feel and be, but sometimes at such great cost).

Last night my second 120mg dose didn't get me to where I felt I needed to be - away from all that pain and shit that my life has been becoming for so long. So I heaped a pile of powder into a rolling paper and swallowed it. I listened to multiple live albums of Goodspeed You Black Emperor and didn't understand why people kept applauding for me over and over again. At some time in the night my Mum found me in the kitchen trying to work out how to make a glass of water and I told her I had had a psychotic break because I thought my girlfriend had come back who they didn't let see anymore since the spring because she had to go to hospital after she stopped taking her anti-psychotic medication while we had been using MXE and ethylphendidate together everyday.

I told my mum my whole history of how I used every kind of drug and lied about it since I was fifteen and we both cried a lot (she is a senior nurse so she could understand a lot of what I was saying).

Then she told me that I would go an see some doctors and a gym trainer and I would be able to have a normal life and a future and a family which is all I actually ever wanted.

I know I'm not really a regular here and most of you don't know me, so this final confession and goodbye is mainly for my own sense closure and a new start I guess, but it would be nice to think it might help someone that reads this in the future.

Thank you everyone, this is a great place that saves lives and it has saved my life more than once before I'm sure, but it isn't a place I will come back to anymore.

Goodbye everybody. I wish you all the best, I really do mean that. Stay safe.

Lastest