I pity anyone that would think LSD hasn't changed them. It's sort of like a state of pure existence. It makes you feel as if though you're seeing not what your eyes are seeing, but what you perceive through a filter of your paradigms. It makes you walk as if though you were floating and the body is merely an insignificant vessel for your mind, floating through and morphing in and out of expanses of time and space contemplating the quality and texture of existence with no earthly connection. The world is bigger and better, as if though everything were magic and a mystery; as if though we had never discovered science and destroyed the beauty of the world by assigning to everything a mathematical equation merely because we weren't content being ignorant mortals and felt the need to simplify and find a reason we could understand for why the sun rises and sets. How could casting off the rusted shackles of reality for half a day of unadulterated heaven not change a person? We have existed in a state that most people will never exist in, and some people will sacrifice a life without it to feed the faint hope that they will experience it when their bodies return to the earth. In short, we have traveled to where the ENTIRE HISTORY OF MAN has been YEARNING to go to; the artifacts left behind by civilizations thousands of years ago tell us that! I only know of one word in English to describe such an experience: awesome.
The Big & Dandy 'How have Psychedelics changed You' Thread
- Thread starter 48Hrs2FarGone
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mongo_the_bad
Bluelighter
Its funny that I come on this thread, this very morning. After last night, when I had a trip that just completely changed reality for me, I can honestly say that nothing in my life will ever be the same after I took LSD yesterday.
Its ovewhelming to think of "How" LSD has changed me. Its really like, how hasn't it as stated by someone earlier. Its like the whole Hindu concept of only being able to describe it in negatives, it didnt do x,y, or z to me.
I honestly feel like LSD hasnt radically altered my view on reality, but has allowed me to refine it, and refine who I am.Everytime I trip I feel like I am burning away the impurities of my conciousness and taking on step closer to that final moment of Satori.
Its ovewhelming to think of "How" LSD has changed me. Its really like, how hasn't it as stated by someone earlier. Its like the whole Hindu concept of only being able to describe it in negatives, it didnt do x,y, or z to me.
I honestly feel like LSD hasnt radically altered my view on reality, but has allowed me to refine it, and refine who I am.Everytime I trip I feel like I am burning away the impurities of my conciousness and taking on step closer to that final moment of Satori.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
I am personally not a big fan of the term "k-hole" since it seems as useful as saying "this..." or "that..." and stopping there.
But since we are on the subject, Ketamine use has taught me the true meaning of the word "Not" (my favourite in any language I know), and "Nothing" (as well as other negating words/letters). If I were to describe what a peak Ketamine experience feels like, I'd say it is a state of perpetual Not-ness. To demonstrate, consider the word "thing". Now you want to know what this word is refering to - you can keep trying, but you're not allowed to use any positive assertions. That way, every time you try to define the "thing", you are forced to say "the thing is not so-and-so". If this goes smoothly, you are forced to reach a point, after exhausting all possible positive assertions, to say "the thing is not", followed by the conclusion that it is indeed a "no-thing" (nothing). What happens after that cannot be said in words, since as you've seen we've tried them all and none work
As one famous quote from the Upanishads goes, "not this, not that..."
Of course, the above is a verbal emulation of a non-verbal experience. My words mean nothing when compared to the actual experience. [my words mean nothing when compared to the actual experiece.
]
I have found the peak Ketamine experience to resemble very much the scientist's definition of a black hole. All matter and energy gravitates to a singularity at infinite regression, yet the singularity itself can only be described as "nothing." I believe at least one person, f&b, agreed with me on this one. Not sure if he still thinks so or not...
I now only think in terms of what something is not, rather than what something is, regardless of wether I'm sober or not.
But since we are on the subject, Ketamine use has taught me the true meaning of the word "Not" (my favourite in any language I know), and "Nothing" (as well as other negating words/letters). If I were to describe what a peak Ketamine experience feels like, I'd say it is a state of perpetual Not-ness. To demonstrate, consider the word "thing". Now you want to know what this word is refering to - you can keep trying, but you're not allowed to use any positive assertions. That way, every time you try to define the "thing", you are forced to say "the thing is not so-and-so". If this goes smoothly, you are forced to reach a point, after exhausting all possible positive assertions, to say "the thing is not", followed by the conclusion that it is indeed a "no-thing" (nothing). What happens after that cannot be said in words, since as you've seen we've tried them all and none work
As one famous quote from the Upanishads goes, "not this, not that..."
Of course, the above is a verbal emulation of a non-verbal experience. My words mean nothing when compared to the actual experience. [my words mean nothing when compared to the actual experiece.
]I have found the peak Ketamine experience to resemble very much the scientist's definition of a black hole. All matter and energy gravitates to a singularity at infinite regression, yet the singularity itself can only be described as "nothing." I believe at least one person, f&b, agreed with me on this one. Not sure if he still thinks so or not...
I now only think in terms of what something is not, rather than what something is, regardless of wether I'm sober or not.
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college_dropout
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Yeah and I gues you can't really apply the ++++ scale to dissociatives since they don't follow the scale for +, ++, and +++ trips.
Winding Vines
Bluelighter
Ketamine for myself, I have experienced the most amazing out of body experiences, including being blessed by Jesus himself and met with spirits of the Rocky Mountains. If it is used for positive reasons and not selfish ones, ketamine will shine the light on many things. I only administer ketamine via intramuscular injection at higher doses. The times that I have used this compound at lower doses was shallow and just for inhebraition, which I dont generally do becuase at the lower doses it causes me to have some stomach issues.. Kind of unfullfilling.
Winding Vines
Bluelighter
college_dropout said:
who made the rule stating this, ketamine IMHO is a psychedelic, even though it is a dissociative.
college_dropout
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^^^Well it doesn't really follow this scale.....
I know K is a psychedelic, just not a psychedelic in the sense it can be gauged by the +4 system.
I know K is a psychedelic, just not a psychedelic in the sense it can be gauged by the +4 system.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
I don't know where that came from, but the Shulgin system is not tied to psychedelics. It can be used to measure any intoxicant...indeed many of the drugs in PIHKAL and TIHKAL are not psychedelic, but are still given the +1, +2, etc.
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/shulgin_rating_scale.shtml
Whatever you are quoting, it is not the Shulgin rating scale. One further, somewhere in PIHKAL or TIHKAL (I don't remember where) he specifically says the system can be used to measure the nature of any kind of drug, be it stimulant, narcotic, etc. This was in the commentary for a drug that had more of an 'antidepressant' action as I recall.
BTW, even using what you have provided I cannot see why that cannot be applied to ketamine. Especially when it comes to the +4....the wording you gave can certainly be applied to many of my better ketamine experiences.
Pretty much describes the K-hole as far as far as my experiences.
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/shulgin_rating_scale.shtml
Whatever you are quoting, it is not the Shulgin rating scale. One further, somewhere in PIHKAL or TIHKAL (I don't remember where) he specifically says the system can be used to measure the nature of any kind of drug, be it stimulant, narcotic, etc. This was in the commentary for a drug that had more of an 'antidepressant' action as I recall.
BTW, even using what you have provided I cannot see why that cannot be applied to ketamine. Especially when it comes to the +4....the wording you gave can certainly be applied to many of my better ketamine experiences.
Pretty much describes the K-hole as far as far as my experiences.
college_dropout
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I rather the scale I quoted because it's loosely based around the Shulgin scale only more indepth and attempts to describe psychedelic effects at different levels.morninggloryseed said:
http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/lsd/psychedelic.htm
And ketamine really only has 3 levels.
slippy sleeveen
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I was just trying to show the difference between the two experiences. My transcendental 2C-E experience was very different than my "k-holes", as it were.
Does that mean k-holes are any less significant than a ++++ from traditional psychedelics? Not at all. I'd rather not argue the semantics here, seeing as how it gets off subject. So much of this is subjective anyways, that it is near impossible to convince anyone of anything on such a topic.
Does that mean k-holes are any less significant than a ++++ from traditional psychedelics? Not at all. I'd rather not argue the semantics here, seeing as how it gets off subject. So much of this is subjective anyways, that it is near impossible to convince anyone of anything on such a topic.
college_dropout
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^Aye. True.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
I can remember next to fuck all from age 5, even the very big & important events are somewhat confused (probably due to lack of being able to fully comprehend and process situations) so I'd be very wary of using a memory from being 5 y.o., even concerning a N.D.E. for comparison with the ketamine experience. My N.D.E. occurred at age 13 (where recall of the event comes with a lot more understanding about it) when I lost my hand (and nearly enough blood to cause multiple organ shutdown/death) and up to a certain point the experiences were very similar (although the 'real' one also had a pronounced opiate feel to it as well); the differences were more to do with the journey back to concensus reality.
I think that's because with things like acid, all one person's words describing the trip do is remind the second person of their LSD experiences and link them by reference to certain common events that both will perceive. With ketamine, once you've got sensory shutdown there are no common points of reference as everybody's internal landscape will be specific only to them & with no common ref points it's hard to convey much if any meaninful intent (more like trying to explain an acid trip to someone who's never had psychedelics)
Seems to be the one that others can relate to though! Personally I prefer 'full sensory shutdown' if being technical in what I'm writing and 'n'existe pas' (no longer existing) when talking/writing otherwise. As for knowing when you've had one, you know plain & simple. While trying to come to terms with the LSD/K one I mentioned above, another BL happened to walk into the room I was sitting in (Tribal Girl at another BLers house) and only then did I become aware of tears running down my face in response to what had just happened (tears of joy and being in total awe). Like I said, if you are fortunate to experience one, you'll know, no doubt about it.
Pretty much - BTW Jamshyd, did you get around to playing the CD while using ket?
stanky ass nuggets
Bluelighter
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k did change me,it made me think i was untouchable,after i did k,i started doing more and more research chemicals in the summer,i dont even like k,but after it i felt like i was a stronger person towards handleing chemicals thats for shure
stinky napkin
Bluelighter
I would say that both drugs are very different and I value the teaching
methods of both. As far as putting one against the other I couldnt say
one is better than the next because of the differences in effects. A
traditional psychedelic is worlds different than a dissassociative Psychedellic.
Bothg are respected teachers and it goes to preference of drugs which is something totally different
methods of both. As far as putting one against the other I couldnt say
one is better than the next because of the differences in effects. A
traditional psychedelic is worlds different than a dissassociative Psychedellic.
Bothg are respected teachers and it goes to preference of drugs which is something totally different
lostreality
Bluelighter
Two common themes I get on ketamine are thinking of a person, a virtually clean slate at birth being shaped and molded by its experience to become the person they are, and viewing the world with its cultures.Ximot said:
Model Making
I get a vision of a baby just born with no concept of reality being torn from a world where it was warm with out any stimuli into a world full of stimuli that it can not comprehend and cold. I can feel how confusing and terrifying this must be. It begins creating models of the world. When a mother or father tends to its needs, it learns to associate the voice and sight of the parents as a constant that gives pleasure. It continues to create models of the world based on its own experience. I see and feel the baby attach connotation to things it experiences in the world. Sometimes the baby makes the wrong assumption and has to redo its own models. The baby becomes a child, than a teen, than an adult. During all this time, it continues perfecting its models of the world. Its a constant battle between who the person is from its previous experience and what new experiences the person experiences. What decisions the person decides to intregrade into what they believe changes the person. During all this time I can feel the being of the person and what the person is feeling as it intergrates its experience of its world.
To simply say that a person is the product of its environment isn't enough. Most people believe it is true but are still unaccepting of others and their ideas. To actually experience the experience of model making is something that at least for me has made me very accepting and tolerant of others.
Visions of the world and its cultures
I will get visions of certain things in the world. I will think of the say a high school with its different social clicks. I would feel a certain totality of each click's personality.Each click's personality was developed by people model making. I would watch each click interact with each other sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. I would feel the unneccary pains that they may have on each other. Than I may think of a country usually America with its different cultures. Again I would feel a certain totality of each culture's personality. I would see:
Immigrants fighting for rights to improve their situation
Christians worshipping and feeling fulfilled attempting to convert others to the "truth" with good intentions
Homeless on the streets just barely clinging to a miserable existence
The stereotypical cultures like red-necks, mexicans, blacks, middle class, and other groups
And of of course the drug culture trying to find or learn something greater.I'm in there too having this trip.
I will see the the people of each acting within their group and with each other. Again I will feel friction good or bad of their interactions. I have also done this with a world view of countries.
I apply the above to events and cultures in the past like wars, colonial times, the black plague, the aztecs, the indians of america, the dark ages, and the sixties. With all the horrors of the past lives of man, it would be spoiled of us to be saddened or upset by our situations in life, well at least for most of those that live in a first world country.
These are the two major themes of ketamine trips that I can take and use in the real world. Most of what I described I can experience to some extent with other different psychedelics. For me nothing can do it as well as ketamine. There is no other drug that produces the feeling of the "model making process" and "the totality of a culture's personality". These results are not typical for most people and it seems most people will never experience the wonderful experience that ketamine offers to those few who find it so magical.
Oh and what I described is the tip of the iceberg for me with ketamine.
Whew... How's that for my first post.
lazyvegan
Bluelighter
i have used ketamine IM like 10 million gazillion times, and ketamine is my all-time favorite drug. i enjoy the experience more than any other drug, but i really don't feel it has changed me or influenced my life like lsd and other more traditional psychedelics have over the years.
in the beginning i was completely confused and intrigued by the experience, but over the years i have come to 'understand' it a bit more (as if one could ever truley do that). as real as the experience is at the time, i don't accept it as 'real' in afterthought. in all honesty i tend to use the experience of 'disembodied conciousness warbling through hyperspace' as more of a highly enjoyable selfish escape more than anything else. i don't really take much back with me to real life other than a very interesting and pleasurable memory, and a true fascination of the the human psyche, imaginiation, and the possibilities for traversing it in self percieved parallel dimensions. that is if i actually remember anything at all.
but in an indirect way, it has changed me, as i have travelled to multiple third-world countries over the years with the primary mission of buying massive amounts of k OTC. so that, in a way, led me to life-changing travels and experiences of other cultures in the 'real' world. they have prolly shaped my general philosophy and outlook on life more than the k-trips themselves.
this thread really got me thinking though, and that's why it took me so long to reply. it's kind of odd really that one's most memorable and desired experiences haven't changed one's life as much as the more traditional psychedelics. i'd imagine it might have something to do with traditional psychedelics allowing one to interact with the 'real' world, and therefore altering your perception of it, perhaps forever. even something like getting high and losing it dancing at an outdoor party with awesome people under the stars can be considered a spiritual experience IMO. with k it's the exact opposite. you pass out, you don't even remember who you are, let alone what part of the multiverse you are from, so maybe that's it....hmmm...still confused..![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
.
in the beginning i was completely confused and intrigued by the experience, but over the years i have come to 'understand' it a bit more (as if one could ever truley do that). as real as the experience is at the time, i don't accept it as 'real' in afterthought. in all honesty i tend to use the experience of 'disembodied conciousness warbling through hyperspace' as more of a highly enjoyable selfish escape more than anything else. i don't really take much back with me to real life other than a very interesting and pleasurable memory, and a true fascination of the the human psyche, imaginiation, and the possibilities for traversing it in self percieved parallel dimensions. that is if i actually remember anything at all.
but in an indirect way, it has changed me, as i have travelled to multiple third-world countries over the years with the primary mission of buying massive amounts of k OTC. so that, in a way, led me to life-changing travels and experiences of other cultures in the 'real' world. they have prolly shaped my general philosophy and outlook on life more than the k-trips themselves.
this thread really got me thinking though, and that's why it took me so long to reply. it's kind of odd really that one's most memorable and desired experiences haven't changed one's life as much as the more traditional psychedelics. i'd imagine it might have something to do with traditional psychedelics allowing one to interact with the 'real' world, and therefore altering your perception of it, perhaps forever. even something like getting high and losing it dancing at an outdoor party with awesome people under the stars can be considered a spiritual experience IMO. with k it's the exact opposite. you pass out, you don't even remember who you are, let alone what part of the multiverse you are from, so maybe that's it....hmmm...still confused..
.
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threelibras99
Bluelighter
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After tripping a few times, I've noticed that peoples oras and energies are much more vibraannt to meee.
I was able to "become one" with my boyfriend and never experienced such a nirvana!
I was able to "become one" with my boyfriend and never experienced such a nirvana!
co.1nspire
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I dose 0.3 K for my first time the other night after reading this thread and holy shit...words cannot describe. I think I took alot more than I needed but it was still good. Ketamine would be the ultimate combo with any psychedelic even pills(speed/E) would be interesting with this stuff.
wow
wow
B9
Bluelight Crew
Seconded! ~Don't worrry no list exists ~ If I thought about it however ~ hmmmm
