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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy DOC Thread - Third opinion

I'd recommend taking it at noon at the latest. it lasts a long time. You won't start peaking til hour 3 and the peak ends maybe hour 7, and the best part for dancing is after the peak. I can take even a very moderate, 2mg dose, at noon or 1 and sometimes I won't sleep all night. It really does last 16 hours or so. It's an all-day thing. Plus then you get to have a few hours to acclimate to it before you go to the events you've taken it for. I personally really enjoy alcohol post-peak. For mel, there's a point around 10 hours in where I suddenly hit the plateau, where I feel sudden;y like everything is firing perfectly, everything is effortless and everything feels awesome, and at this point, alcohol serves to increase this feeling and I can drink like a champion. Before that point, alcohol makes it feel more blurry and a bit sloppy.

But yeah, 3mg is probably good given you have plenty of psychedelic experience.
 
^ i agree ^ It is great at 1mg for going out to fairs & gathering for an all day thing in public ... it does last a long time...

4-mg is my personal sweet spot, for a deep experience... You can always turn it off with Xanax, near the end, of the Doc experience it too...
 
Yeah my plan was to take this at 1pm or so, and the festival area closes at 5am. There is one 24 hour stage somewhere so I'm not really worried about the length. I do have seroquel just in case, so at least I have some sort of chemical bungee-cord if needed.

But thanks a lot guys, just being able to ask these questions gives me a peace of mind. Final question: What is tolerance like with this? On a scale from DMT (low tolerance buildup) -> NBOMEs (unable to even have any visual response from a reasonable dose for maybe a week, tolerance lasts much longer still)
 
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All these people discussing how unhealthy DOC is, and I'm over here like 4mg turned me super saiyan about three weeks ago

Seriously though, my body has never felt more in shape than during my last DOC trip. I had endless energy for about six hours where I danced nonstop and had extreme confidence, mental acuity, and I literally felt like I was in peak physical condition of potentially my whole life.

I could flex every muscle in my body over and over again without the fatigue I usually experience and it felt like more testosterone was pumping through me than ever before. I felt like my adrenal gland was producing the perfect array of hormones and endorphins to put me in a state where I felt like a primordial beast.

When you see a lion with all of its hair standing on end and its pupils dialating as it roars, expressing its flight or flight response in a vulgar display of power, THATS HOW I FELT FOR LIKE 6 HOURS!

I was literally roaring and grunting and yelling shit like "TESTOSTERONE!"

If I wasn't yelling I was talking very similar to the way macho man randy savage does, much lower in tone and throatier than how I usually talk.

My core felt so strong after dancing for like 6 hours straight and eventually I got to the point where even just while I was walking I was flexing my triceps and my chest because it felt so good.

The whole week before I worked out more than I had in a long time and took a lot of preworkout supplements with high levels of arginine and creatine in them which almost certainly effected my DOC trip.
 
Xorkoth said:
Yeah near the end a good sedating benzo will knock you out (but not til the end).
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Hee hee, didn't work for me. 16hr in on 4mg, no dose of anything (we took a shitton of ativan) would put me to sleep. That 4mg trip was AWESOME but we made the mistake of dosing at night, and the next day at 10am or so we just wanted sleep and it wasn't to be. Next time, I'll dose at 7am or so.

I do love DOC, I think my best experience was 1.75mg or so mixed with a 'hit' of LSD. That was pure perfection in a psychedelic state if there ever was one.
 
SONN,

This sounds dangerous. Over exertion is dangerous regardless of if you feel the harm you cause your body. People describe meth the same. Over exertion can result in heat stroke, rhabdomyolysis, and other potentially fatal complications. This risk is magnified with the excessive duration of DOX amphetamines. Euphoric disregard of your bodies limits could result in disaster.
 
morninggloryseed said:
Hee hee, didn't work for me. 16hr in on 4mg, no dose of anything (we took a shitton of ativan) would put me to sleep. That 4mg trip was AWESOME but we made the mistake of dosing at night, and the next day at 10am or so we just wanted sleep and it wasn't to be. Next time, I'll dose at 7am or so.

I do love DOC, I think my best experience was 1.75mg or so mixed with a 'hit' of LSD. That was pure perfection in a psychedelic state if there ever was one.
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yeah DOC is great, a really beautiful drug. I'm excited to try DOPR, just waiting for an opportunity (as it's 20-30 hours, significantly longer than DOC), but the recent reports make it sound right up my alley, euphoric and nice feeling like DOC but more immersive and visual.

I also feel in peak physical shape during a DOC trip, except I try to keep particular attention to how I really feel so as to not overexert myself. I frequently will take some DOC and go river hiking (climbing boulders and waterfalls in a mountain river), and it's amazing for that, lots of focus and energy. But I didn't start using DOC for that until it became not too much of a (cardiovascular) challenge for me without it.
 
One could opt for Seroquel if a benzo doesn't work, I guess. Wouldn't do that too regularly, but neither would I use DOC too regularly I think.

p.s Wow, this is really good. Might have to take back that "neither would I use DOC too regularly"-statement. =D

I ended up not going to that festival, but it was weekend and in the evening there was a good party somewhere, so my hedonism did not end there. I ended up just doing the 3mgs to be spend sitting in a park, which was a bit more than I anticipated at first. Took the DOC at 1pm maybe, nervous as hell, which isn't strange if it's your first time with a long lasting psychedelic.

From what I've tasted this one really reminded me of my better 4-HO-MET (or maybe 25C-NBOMe more?) trips*. This one lets me tune in to some zen-like frequency, like those chemicals, but there is no shortage of spectacle for sure. During the come-up there were multiple times where I felt "OH SHIT!!1!!!111!, what did I get myself into?", but the setting had such a wonderfully relaxed vibe that those feelings soon left me. I felt empowered by the chemical, though more in a social manner than a physical one, opposite to any of the psychedelics I've tried. Mostly I feel I can't keep up with sober people, but with this I was the leader of the conversations. All the conversations. I'm not much of a macho man but this is just how I felt. Kind of like on a good line of cocaine, but with this I was actually listening to people and empathetic to what they said.

*Though not really?? If the comparison clicks for you, it clicks. If it doesn't it just doesn't, but how can I describe if not with comparison?

During the "oh shit"-phase I felt a spiritual edge to this that I don't feel with many RCs. I think I might want to try a high dose of this sometime and explore, but that will not be tomorrow or any time soon. The stimulation was okay, but not too much to note about that. Drinks were overpowering enough for me to completely forget the DOC, though I was still a bit of a talkative maniac and I felt good

All in all, I really like this one. DOPR has my eyes and ears prying on it as well now, might go for a hunt soon
 
As a first time, maybe. Then again, I get comeup anxiety on most serious chemicals and this was so good when it subdued, so it wasn't really too much and it never got bad. It's just that a lower-dose taster would've made a hypothetical 3mg second dose better.
 
I feel very empowered by DOC too... it turns me into a social animal but usually not until the initial stages wear off. I feel like I can everything well on it, anything involving critical thought, sociability, or physical prowess.
 
Xorkoth said:
yeah DOC is great, a really beautiful drug. I'm excited to try DOPR, just waiting for an opportunity (as it's 20-30 hours, significantly longer than DOC), but the recent reports make it sound right up my alley, euphoric and nice feeling like DOC but more immersive and visual.

I also feel in peak physical shape during a DOC trip, except I try to keep particular attention to how I really feel so as to not overexert myself. I frequently will take some DOC and go river hiking (climbing boulders and waterfalls in a mountain river), and it's amazing for that, lots of focus and energy. But I didn't start using DOC for that until it became not too much of a (cardiovascular) challenge for me without it.
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Nice that you acquired some now. :) Ah, I'm envious lol. It's really good, even on the trip I went too high with, but at least I was able to find out the [my] "too much" dose. The dose response curve is steep, seemingly like many others, since for me 4mg was kind of medium strength but manageable while 8mg was holy crappers. So gathering from ime, a good, strong dose is probably somewhere between there.

I was thinking of taking the last ~6mg dose instead of lsd last weekend, but I'd be so sad if it's gone already. I'm sure you know what to do, but please make a trip report too once you try it. I'd really like to read about it. It goes without saying, but have safe trips. :)
 
Well, I'll be damned... Congratulations on your new position as TR moderator, Kl! Did BL send you your free unicorn yet? :D
 
lamanogaucha said:
Well, I'll be damned... Congratulations on your new position as TR moderator, Kl! Did BL send you your free unicorn yet? :D
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Thanks. I was surprised as well. But now I have to get used to modding. Heh.

Well, they did send me something like that. Mostly pointers, and some intangibles. :)
 
You're welcome, chief. You'll get used to the modding in no time.

Pointers and intangibles are good, but I wish that BL had sent the unicorn along with those. They make for great pets -- very sweet, and generally quiet and undemanding. The best part is that they piss rainbows and shit Jolly Ranchers. Anyhow, I got mine from a Tibetan guy that breeds them for profit. I bargained hard and got it for a reasonable price. Her name is Artemis and she's almost five.

On topic... What MGS said about combining DOC and LSD sounds intriguing. I might try a slightly modified version of this mixture later in the year -- DOC @ 2mg and 1P-LSD @ 100ug.
 
SONN said:
All these people discussing how unhealthy DOC is, and I'm over here like 4mg turned me super saiyan about three weeks ago

Seriously though, my body has never felt more in shape than during my last DOC trip. I had endless energy for about six hours where I danced nonstop and had extreme confidence, mental acuity, and I literally felt like I was in peak physical condition of potentially my whole life.

I could flex every muscle in my body over and over again without the fatigue I usually experience and it felt like more testosterone was pumping through me than ever before. I felt like my adrenal gland was producing the perfect array of hormones and endorphins to put me in a state where I felt like a primordial beast.

When you see a lion with all of its hair standing on end and its pupils dialating as it roars, expressing its flight or flight response in a vulgar display of power, THATS HOW I FELT FOR LIKE 6 HOURS!

I was literally roaring and grunting and yelling shit like "TESTOSTERONE!"

If I wasn't yelling I was talking very similar to the way macho man randy savage does, much lower in tone and throatier than how I usually talk.

My core felt so strong after dancing for like 6 hours straight and eventually I got to the point where even just while I was walking I was flexing my triceps and my chest because it felt so good.

The whole week before I worked out more than I had in a long time and took a lot of preworkout supplements with high levels of arginine and creatine in them which almost certainly effected my DOC trip.
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I think the perception of unlimited endurance is a pretty common experience on DOC.

5ht2a agonism decreases the threshhold for muscle activation (thus the tremor, muscle tension, etc). This makes muscular activity seem easy.

There's nothing too wrong with this in isolation (and it feels great, and offers performance advantages) but be wary that prolonged muscle activation leads to the breakdown of muscle tissue. Even in a weightlifting setting, increases in muscle mass are achieved at night/during periods of rest AFTER the muscle breakdown that occurs during weightlifting itself.

So the danger here is the prolonged activation, without adequate recovery. After all, DOC lasts a very long time (and its metabolites remain in tissues at significant concentrations for longer than most people realize.)
 
Earlier I added a comment mentioning my concerns about DOCs safety.

SteamboatBillJr said:
People continue talking down the dangers of DOX chemicals. They falsely claim toxicity is low, predictable, and dose dependent. My experience shows these things, in the end, foster significant unpredictable toxicity risks.

Though if you won't take my word consider Alexander Shuglin's. Shulgin invented DOX chemicals. These were the earlier and less developed of the phenethylamines Shulgin created. Shulgin moved away from the DOX chemicals because they exhibited inferior safety profiles and excessive duration.

Alexander Shulgin said:
The obvious step to go was take off the methyl group and get away from the amphetamine chain. So I took the methyl group off and that gave 2C-B and then 2C-I, a host of other materials in the same ilk, that was just a beautiful rich collection of compounds. Many of them not as potent as the amphetamines but shorter lived and much more benign and much more friendly than the corresponding amphetamines.
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Source: A FEW WORDS FROM OUR ELDERS, Psychedelic Salon podcast #200 (~25:00)
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Others comments claimed the evidence of DOCs danger was insufficient. This evidence is sufficient: Life threatening physical complications and at least an individual fatality were reported in medical journals. Other reports of fatalities exist outside the medical literature. Another report on the Shroomery demonstrates overdoses result in dangerous vascular constriction. Why do these other accounts continue promoting such dangerous chemicals despite the evidence showing the dangers?

Now look at the older comment from Shulgin. Realize Shulgin abandoned DOX chemicals early on in his research and the quote explains the reason. Shulgin describes the 2C-X phenethylamines as "more benign" implying DOX were the opposite. The exact opposite of benign is malignant.

malignant
[muh-lig-nuh nt]

adjective
1.
disposed to cause harm, suffering, or distress deliberately; feeling or showing ill will or hatred.
2.
very dangerous or harmful in influence or effect.
3.
Pathology.

tending to produce death, as bubonic plague.
(of a tumor) characterized by uncontrolled growth; cancerous, invasive, or metastatic.
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The creator of DOX chemicals abandoned his research on them and later implied they were malignant.

I warned of these risks earlier and people said I was wrong, then the user on the Shroomery od'ed, almost died, and lost his toes. If this chemical is distributed as widely as 25I-NBOMe we should expect more seizures and fatalities. These fatalities further tarnish the reputation of safe and therapeutic psychedelics and fuel the drug wars.
 
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