Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Amanita Mushrooms Thread

[Jamshyd]

I'm not sure where to start... my initial responses to your post were respectful even though I disagree with you, but you seem to take offense (needless to say, cosider me "close-minded" just for disagreeing with you.

In any case, I'll try to address the convoluted logic in your reply to my last post:

I just have a different attitude towards you regarding them. I do believe in the existance of what people define as bad trips, I just don't consider them 'bad' and so therefore I don't beleive in "bad trips".I just have a different attitude towards you regarding them. I do believe in the existance of what people define as bad trips, I just don't consider them 'bad' and so therefore I don't beleive in "bad trips".

Well then, if you don't consider them "bad", how are they bad trips?? The fact that you don't consider your "bad" trips bad means that your trips were not bad 8)

Pain is a message to the brain that something is wrong. In my opinion, the same goes for "bad trips".

eg. If you burn yourself and your so overcome by the message of pain that you can't remove your hand from the fire, then nothing good will come of it. Whereas if you listen to the message, despite how unpleasant it may be, and understand it's nature - then you can stop from being burnt in the future.

Yeah, and so?

Your interpretation of, or reaction to, pain has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you are, in fact, experiencing PAIN, as long as you define it as such. Although you have learned from burning your hand, you did in fact experience PAIN. Otherwise, you would have not defined it as pain, again, regardless of what your reaction to it might have been.

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ Put simply, bad trip = one that left psychological scars from the experience. It's not bad as the opposite of good, it's as the opposite of 'well' - you can scare yourself etc, but as long as the unpleasant state doesn't last longer than the drugs effects, it's not a bad trip. If you end up getting disturbing consequences to the experience after the drug has long worn off, then it's a bad trip. It's not the experience while intoxicated that defines a bad trip, it's the continuation of a negative response long past the point they should have faded (along with the drug).

More of an absolute definition rather than a subjective assessment

 

[Black Octagon]

^No it isn't. Some of the best psychedelic trips involve all sorts of unpleasant feelings - pain, anxiety, emotional anguish and even (sometimes) spiritual 'hollowness.' Often what makes a trip so 'good' is when the tripper experiences these sensations, confronts them directly and honestly, and works through them to a beneficial conclusion. Those trips are much more personal and enlightening than simply getting fucked up, listening to trippy music and mindlessly laughing your ass off.

The fact that these experiences aren't all light-hearted euphoria does not mean that they are bad, because you actually get so much out of them and feel like you've grown as a person...as F&B said.

A 'bad trip' is one in which you walk away from the experience feeling like you got nothing out of it, or like the experience took away a part of you. I agree with F&B's comments completely.

I don't want to sound like a condescening, self-righteous pig, but I believe this kind of distinction is what separates 'real' trippers (those who use psychedelics for purposes of mind expansion and spiritual growth) from those who just use psychedelics as something to get fucked up on. It's a distinction that's especially important when it comes to muscimol, too.

That sounds very harsh but I'm not sure how to put it less crudely.

 

[Black Octagon]

I agree entirely. Bad trips are usually the result of the user being unprepared to cope with the combination of substance, set and setting (usually because he/she took the wrong quantity of the substance, or did so in the wrong setting, or most likely, failed to make 'internal' preparations).

 

[Phat_bass49]

Make sure you make water before your first cup, because the rest of your water you are going to re-ingest. Yes I mean the consumption of your urine. Don't worry it will not hurt you. In fact if your ill it will help your body fight off whatever ails you since all of the antibodies your immune system makes to fight off disease are filtered off into your urine (an intentional miraculous process). Besides you are a serious explorer aren't you? Remember, in the Christianity section, I said that Jesus said to the woman at the well, "If you knew who I was, you would ask me for waters to drink, for I would give you living waters" He was not kidding. It is an alchemical process even for those who are conditioned with repugnance to certain things. It is just an easier one to swallow if you are not fed a predisposition to abhor the idea. Just chase it with some Iced Tea you'll be fine. The post- alchemical-process material is much better, and worth the effort. After first passing water wait an hour before consuming any more source material. Do not waste your urine keep recycling until you achieve the proper effects.
http://www.jamesarthur.net/recipe.html

DEEEEEEERRRRRTY!

 

[youarewhatyouis]

check my report on A. Muscaria

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=218027

if you tripped on psilocybin shrooms before, you might be dissapointed. amanitas gave me sort of like a mind trip. no visuals or anything, but when I closed my eyes and listened to music, I could really feel the music. I could hear little details in songs I had never heard before, and it was pretty enjoyable. yeah... so I'd recommend taking them with something... anything

 

[Black Octagon]

What does a "proper preparation" constitute?

Is there something wrong with just eating them?

I don't enjoy hassling newbies, but you should read the links I posted before asking these basic questions (and, incidentally, hijacking someone else's thread).

Because you're new, I'll be super-nice and answer your question:

The active drug in Amanita Muscaria is called muscimol. But there are other things in these mushrooms too, the most important being ibotenic acid. This occurs in substantial amounts and if eaten causes extreme nausea and discomfort, and is very bad for you. In short, it ruins your experience by making you feel too horrible to appreciate musimol's subtle (and wonderful qualities).

Therefore, the preparation (check the links) is a vital step before ingestion because it converts most ibotenic acid into muscimol. This way, the mushrooms you come to eat contain minimal ibotenic acid and your chances of having a bad trip are a LOT less.

 

[hazmat]

Two nights ago I received 1 oz. of Grade A. dried Arizona state caps from a web based seller. I ate abgout 5-7 grams and had a great time. major body buzz or should I say lack of feeling. Trippy mental high also. My vision got pretty choppy as well. I dont like them as much as psylocibin(sp?) mushrooms, but theyre still worth it in my opinion. I say give them a try.

 

[Toltec]

I always wondered how the Amanita Muscaria felt like. I certainly realizes they're nothing like psilocybin , after all the active drug in Amanita Muscaria is muscimol, not psilocybin. It's this part, the preparation and ritual that's hard to swallow so to speak.

Make sure you make water before your first cup, because the rest of your water you are going to re-ingest. Yes I mean the consumption of your urine. Don't worry it will not hurt you. In fact if your ill it will help your body fight off whatever ails you since all of the antibodies your immune system makes to fight off disease are filtered off into your urine (an intentional miraculous process). Besides you are a serious explorer aren't you? Remember, in the Christianity section, I said that Jesus said to the woman at the well, "If you knew who I was, you would ask me for waters to drink, for I would give you living waters" He was not kidding. It is an alchemical process even for those who are conditioned with repugnance to certain things. It is just an easier one to swallow if you are not fed a predisposition to abhor the idea. Just chase it with some Iced Tea you'll be fine. The post- alchemical-process material is much better, and worth the effort. After first passing water wait an hour before consuming any more source material. Do not waste your urine keep recycling until you achieve the proper effects

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Personally, I don't see why people nowadays, don't just basify their urine, and do a quick pull with a nonpolar solvent, gas and go.

The reason the Lapps drank urine, is as you said, muscimol is excreted in the urine, and the fungus was AFAIK in fairly short supply, thus making it nescessary to get the most bang for your money (or reindeer), we have the luxury of being able to buy them reliably, any at least in my own area, my local mushroom foraying woodland produces kilos of them in a couple of days when they are in growing season.

 

[Tranced]

Commercial Amanita (Fly Agaric) mushrooms

There is a headshop near me which sells Fly Agarics. I really want to try amanitas (possibly next week) even though I have read a lot of bad reports about the naseua involved on the internet.

The shop near me claims to sell 12.5 grams (one dried mushroom) of Fly Agaric. It is a commercial product (i.e not just picked out of a nearby field) which they obviously buy in from a supplier and after searching about the internet I've noticed that it's quite a common brand. The brand is "Salvia" and I was wondering whether anyone has any experience with it?

My main concern is that other websites which stock this particular brand of mushroom claim "These are cured at source, picked and taken to special drying chambers. They are then dried at 170-200F. This process turns some of the Ibotenic Acid into Muscimol, which is believed to be the most active element".

A few different websites say pretty much the same thing and after a quick search on google 170F is equal to about 76 degrees.

Would this kind of heating process most likely destroy a lot of the Muscimol or is it quite a stable/heat resistant chemical?

Does anyone have any direct experience with the "salvia" brand of fly agarics or have any speculation as to whether they will just be completely inactive.

According to erowid 5 - 10 grams is an average dose.

Thanks.

 

[Vastness]

A quick google reveals the melting point of muscimol to be around 184 degrees C, so it doesn't sound like that sort of drying would be a problem. You're allegedly supposed to cook them for a while anyway to convert some of the ibotenic acid into muscimol, so it's probably a good thing this is done for you.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Urrrg, the commercialization of holy plants really bugs me. "Salvia" is a genus of plant...the mint family specifically. One species, Salvia divinorum, is a powerful entheogenic substance. It has nothing to do with the Fly Agaric mushroom.

The only "brands" there are of A. Muscaria are these....

• Var. alba is white and restricted to northern North America
• Var. americana has a yellow or yellow-orange cap
• Var. flavivolvata is red, with yellow warts, and has a range from southern Alaska to at least Andean Colombia
• Var. formosa (a poorly understood European variety) is orange-yellow.
• Var. guessowii is yellow to orange, with center of cap more orange or reddish orange than the outer part, apparently restricted to northern North America
• Var. persicina is pinkish to orangish "melon" colored with poorly formed or absent remnants of universal veil on the stem and vasal bulb

There is no "salvia" brand...it is just some really stupid companies name for it. Check out erowid and wikipedia for more information (as you appear to have done.)

BTW, I am not encouraging you to eat this mushroom....but most of the 'bad trip' reports I have read came from people who ate too little of the mushroom and experienced mostly the side-effects. Like Salvia divinorum, and many other entheogens...there is a certain dosage one must take to get the full effects...and anything less is likely to be more of an unpleasant body high than anything else. But what "breakthrough" trip reports exist on this mushroom are facinating.

I've been gathering oodles of these mushrooms for years (they grow everywhere around here in spring) but have yet to try any.

 

[Tranced]

Urrrg, the commercialization of holy plants really bugs me. "Salvia" is a genus of plant...the mint family specifically. One species, Salvia divinorum, is a powerful entheogenic substance. It has nothing to do with the Fly Agaric mushroom.

The only "brands" there are of A. Muscaria are these....

• Var. alba is white and restricted to northern North America
• Var. americana has a yellow or yellow-orange cap
• Var. flavivolvata is red, with yellow warts, and has a range from southern Alaska to at least Andean Colombia
• Var. formosa (a poorly understood European variety) is orange-yellow.
• Var. guessowii is yellow to orange, with center of cap more orange or reddish orange than the outer part, apparently restricted to northern North America
• Var. persicina is pinkish to orangish "melon" colored with poorly formed or absent remnants of universal veil on the stem and vasal bulb

There is no "salvia" brand...it is just some really stupid companies name for it. Check out erowid and wikipedia for more information (as you appear to have done.)

BTW, I am not encouraging you to eat this mushroom....but most of the 'bad trip' reports I have read came from people who ate too little of the mushroom and experienced mostly the side-effects. Like Salvia divinorum, and many other entheogens...there is a certain dosage one must take to get the full effects...and anything less is likely to be more of an unpleasant body high than anything else. But what "breakthrough" trip reports exist on this mushroom are facinating.

I've been gathering oodles of these mushrooms for years (they grow everywhere around here in spring) but have yet to try any.

I do realise this which is why I placed the word salvia in quotation marks. Upon further reasearch I have found that they are called the "special salvia company". An odd name for a company selling Fly Agarics but it's not as if these so called "herbal high" companies are ever very informative/realistic when selling powerfull psychedelics. I assure you it made me cringe as much as it did you.

This headshop is however pretty much my only hope of trying Fly Agaric anytime soon, as it is not season in the UK at this moment in time.

Is there any reason why you have not tried them yet?

I also have found some of the effects/trip reports fascinating although it doesn't sound like something that I'd really want to over dose on, so to speak.

 

[fastandbulbous]

This headshop is however pretty much my only hope of trying Fly Agaric anytime soon, as it is not season in the UK at this moment in time.

The season for collecting fly agaric is much longer than that for liberty caps in that you can find some at the end of July/beginning of August in some of the damper areas of the UK - just look for the silver birch trees and away you go!

Got to admit that the decarboxylation of ibotenic acid at ~80'C is quite unusual given that to decarboxylate most amino acids requires temps. a fair bit higher

 

[Morninggloryseed]

>Is there any reason why
>you have not tried them yet?

Like many thing, I've just not gotten to it yet.

But also, the nature of the intoxication can include not being aware that one is in an intoxicated state. There are reports I've read (the one that stands out is in the book Chocolate to Morphine) where the person injured themselves, and was taken to the hospital..but didn't realize what was happening. He thought he had gone to heaven, and the doctors were angels.

Even if that is not the 'norm' I won't take a chance...thus me taking the Fly Agaric depends on me having a babysitter.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Been contimplating trying A. Muscaria mushrooms for a bit, but have since found much better substances taking me away from bothering at this point in time.

How do you know, if you never tried it.

There are a few VERY fascinating reports among far many more horrible ones. But it seems most of the horrible reports either regard underdosing (where physical side-effects predominate) or with fresh mushrooms (which feature mostly ibotenic acid which causes many more side-effects as compared to muscimol) or both.

But from the good reports...it seems like a very unique one-of-a-kind experience...and definitely one capable of producing a +4.

 

[straatkat]

im from south africa and here they grow in the pine plantations in the province Mpumalanga, and from what i've heard is that u should only eat the skin of Fly agaric, i could be wrong as i sead that this is something that i heard one of my friens who say that, that is wat he did when he tried it, isnt there a picture of the products that we can compare?

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

The flesh isn't toxic, well, it is, but the entire mushroom is, but thats outside context of recreational/spiritual use, and more in the case of some poor bugger harvesting them for food, and failing to prepare them correctly.

The flesh just under the skin, and its skin contain the same alkaloids (ibotenic acid, muscimol, muscazone, and a cholinergic toxin, muscarine, which is only present, in very small amounts, in the entire fruitbody)

The only significant experience I have had with A.Muscaria, was with a capsule containing the etherial extract of the basified juices that exuded from a batch of flys that I was cooking at the time, on top of a dose of Psilocybe cyanescens, a very pleasant experience, apart from the tearing caused by the muscarine content, which got a little annoying at times.

Anyone have tips on drying these? thats my only problem, kilo after kilo are available, and I have tried drying over NaOH, P2O5, and over a low heat for a long time, but I can never manage to dry them out well.

 

[c00kiemonster]

Amanita muscaria - 10x Resin

Has anyone happened to sample this yet? What did you think? I'm very tempted to get 3 grams