Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
HCl salts are usually pretty light I think, but freebase is always the lightest/most potent. I'd guess around 10-15% heavier for the HCl but it's just a guess.
Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 5-MeO-MiPT Thread - Part 2
- Thread starter Jesusgreen
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If you really wanted you could calculate the molecular weights of both the freebase and HCl forms relatively easily, perp. It would take 10-20 minutes most likely. If you're at all interested but unsure of how to do so say something and I'll link you a resource for calculating molecular masses, it's simple math.
perpetualdawn
Bluelighter
I am a bit of a drug nerd but maybe more of a lazy type of drug nerd :D cheers psy
cj187
Bluelighter
It's pretty easy to calculate because you can look up the chemical on wikipedia to see the molar mass. 5-MeO-MiPT is 246 and HCl is 36, so the mass of the salt is 282. Divide that by the 246 and you'll see that the HCl salt weights about 1.15 times as much as the base.
perpetualdawn
Bluelighter
Hey sweet! This is the kind of thing that keeps me coming back to bluelight
Did you all vape the HCl?
For IMHO 5-MeO-MiPT FB has only a very small hint of a taste (very smooth). Nothing compared to e.g. DMT, and surely not DPT...
It's almost odorless vaped. Also if you smell it just like that it is almost odorless, compared to DMT, 5-MeO-DMT or other trypts where you can clearly smell a very distinct odor.
I personally think vaping it is a blast...so much better than oral. Interestingly, for me, total duration is very similar vaped vs oral, which seems very odd.
But that could also be, due to personal metabolism. E.g. as it seems especially 5-MeO-MiPT's effects seems to be strongly dependent on personal metabolism. E.g. oral it needs for me about 2h before any effect starts. Even on higher dosages, it never gets really much visual. IMHO this is probably due to a different CYP2D6 metabolism into 5-HO-MiPT (slow metabolizer). (E.g. also 5-MeO-DMT never gets visual for me).
E.g. for me the euphoria and body high are way stronger vaped vs oral. Dosage wise I would say, the vaped way is a bit more efficient for the same overall psychedelic effects. E.g. 10mg FB vaped is about the same for me as 16-20mg HCl oral.
Honestly vaped 5-MeO-MiPT FB feels for me at the beginning like the best stim I ever had. Way bigger rush and euphoria than e.g. meth.
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Yeah it was the HCl, maybe I should try converting to FB sometime. Though my buddy really liked the HCl from the same batch I didn't (but he had vaped FB before I think).
I think you were replying to me, looks like something I wrote but I believe it was quite some time ago I wrote that so if you were replying to someone else, please forgive me.
I think you were replying to me, looks like something I wrote but I believe it was quite some time ago I wrote that so if you were replying to someone else, please forgive me.
Lol, yes was from you. Was on the previous page, didn't look for the date...
What I really ask myself:
All over the net you find the claims vaped is way less efficient than oral (e.g. also on Erowid and Psychonautwiki). But for me this isn't the case, on the contrary. Now I'm wondering if this is because I always vape FB, or because due to my metabolism oral is just way less effective for me.
Guess I will have once to try vaping the HCl for a comparison.
What I really ask myself:
All over the net you find the claims vaped is way less efficient than oral (e.g. also on Erowid and Psychonautwiki). But for me this isn't the case, on the contrary. Now I'm wondering if this is because I always vape FB, or because due to my metabolism oral is just way less effective for me.
Guess I will have once to try vaping the HCl for a comparison.
Korrit
Bluelighter
On the net we can found that smoked is less potent than oral, vaped is different than smoked IMO.
Kaleida
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Could be both, too. I personally have thought for some time that metabolic differences likely account for most of the variance since the high variability of 5-MeO-MiPT's effects correlates with the high variability of CYP2D6 which seems to be one of its primary metabolic pathways. I actually do get very strong psychedelic effects from 5-MeO-MiPT myself and they are incredibly similar to those of bufotenine, or 5-HO-DMT, at least as much as MiPT is to DMT and 4-HO-MiPT is to mushrooms, as would be expected if it got these effects primarily via metabolism to 5-HO-MiPT.
@Kaleida:
Yeah, I also had similar thoughts about this conversion. With "psychedelic effects" you mean visual effects?
If this is the case, then I may be a poor metabolizer (CYP2D6). As, as I said above, even in quite high dosages oral, I get only very very small visual effects, and vaped I get no visuals at all.
It's really a pity that no vendor offers 5-HO substances (I really ask myself why). Would be really interesting to compare, to see what effects actually do come from converted 5-HO and not from 5-MeO-MiPT itself.
But generally I can relate it to 5-MeO-DMT:
* 5-MeO-MiPT also has a tremendous body high, although not that open totally energetic like 5-MeO-DMT, where it really feels as if your body gets connected to the cosmic power grid.
But 5-MeO-MiPT has no bodyload.
* No visuals
* typical tryptamine psychedelic headspace. But 5-MeO-DMT goes here definitely much quicker much further...
What seems quite special to me is the euphoria experienced on 5-MeO-MiPT. This is especially strong for me, when vaped. But I think this stems from the energetic body high.
It is indeed quite a special molecule. Quite unique in effects.
Yeah, I also had similar thoughts about this conversion. With "psychedelic effects" you mean visual effects?
If this is the case, then I may be a poor metabolizer (CYP2D6). As, as I said above, even in quite high dosages oral, I get only very very small visual effects, and vaped I get no visuals at all.
It's really a pity that no vendor offers 5-HO substances (I really ask myself why). Would be really interesting to compare, to see what effects actually do come from converted 5-HO and not from 5-MeO-MiPT itself.
But generally I can relate it to 5-MeO-DMT:
* 5-MeO-MiPT also has a tremendous body high, although not that open totally energetic like 5-MeO-DMT, where it really feels as if your body gets connected to the cosmic power grid.
But 5-MeO-MiPT has no bodyload.
* No visuals
* typical tryptamine psychedelic headspace. But 5-MeO-DMT goes here definitely much quicker much further...
What seems quite special to me is the euphoria experienced on 5-MeO-MiPT. This is especially strong for me, when vaped. But I think this stems from the energetic body high.
It is indeed quite a special molecule. Quite unique in effects.
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
As far as I know, no 5-HO-tryptamines have ever really been tested except for serotonin and bufotenine, both of which cause some worrisome side effects when introduced exogenously. I wouldn't feel comfortable at all being the first to test 5-HO-MiPT.
Or did you mean 5-MeO and just said 5-HO?
Well from what I've heard, bufotenine's side effects aren't really bad if you vape it pure. Surely another story when taken orally, which seems to make you quite nauseous.
Haven't had yet the possibility to test myself. But at least that's what I got as info from several users at the DMT Nexus.
They basically unisono describe the experience of bufotenine as very visual with no mindfuck at all and no real bad side effects, except at the beginning a kinda strange feeling in the neck and head.
Haven't had yet the possibility to test myself. But at least that's what I got as info from several users at the DMT Nexus.
They basically unisono describe the experience of bufotenine as very visual with no mindfuck at all and no real bad side effects, except at the beginning a kinda strange feeling in the neck and head.
As the 5-MeO's anyways very likely partly get converted into the 5-HO's by CYP2D6, I personally wouldn't be that anxious about trying them myself.
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I've read a lot about bufotenine and I've read a lot of reports of people smoking/vaping it, and it seems like most report pounding heartbeat, fear and very sick feelings for a brief period, along with psychedelic effects. I've read some stuff about people being able to get spectacular effects without the sickness too. It was always my impression that 5-HO-tryptamines could be dangerous. I mean who knows whether directly ingesting them would affect you differently than feeling the effects when the body converts it? Anyway I agree it would be fascinating if they became available. I just wouldn't want to try them until there was a good amount of anecdotal evidence for safety. I mean too much serotonin and you can die (serotonin syndrome).
Kaleida
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Very much so.
Yeah, visual effects are the dominant property for me, but it's worth noting that I've only taken up to 8 mg so far and signs of some decent psychedelic mental effects were already showing up, like a heavily introspective focus, some paranoia and insecurity when being out in public, and some of the mind's eye imagery that is common for me on very mental psychedelics such as abstract human forms and repetitive designs very much alike this. The intensity of these effects at that low of a dosage lead me to strongly suspect that 5-MeO-MiPT will also produce a full-blown heavy psychedelic head trip for me at higher but still reasonable concentrations.
However, again, at that 8 mg it was primarily the visual effects that defined the experience. The most consistent but (relatively speaking) least complex were the open eye visuals, which consisted largely of constant warping, melting, pulsing, sliding, and other such distortions over every single inch of my field of vision while bleeding a full spectrum of rainbow colors behind every movement, long, detailed tracers alike a strong LSD trip but more red than blue as that is for me, and every so often extremely large and intricate mandala patterns, more so than with any other psychedelic I've ingested, would make themselves known, but at this dose they were not quite complete yet, being transparent and context-dependent. With eyes closed, sometimes not much was going on but other times it was highly impressive, and more variable and developed than the open eye visuals; the things that stand out in my memory the most are a detailed jungle scene forming before me built entirely from abtract geometric imagery, an utterly massive and distant complex electrical grid with a mixed ancient alien machinery design that I could actually both see and feel the electricity running through via synesthesia, and this sort of grid-based virtual world imagery but FAR more detailed and meaningful than that picture, with a sort of rolling fields, gigantic electrical spires, and loving human entities theme to it. So yeah, pretty darn visual.... Quite honestly, I consider 5-MeO-MiPT to possibly be the most classically visual psychedelic I've ever ingested, feeling comparable to even DMT in strength in ways that other things generally simply aren't.
It's worth noting that most people I've talked to that have taken 5-MeO-MiPT did not give visuals this strong, but a few others indeed have; I have some suspicion that they and I may be on the higher end of CYP2D6 metabolism, and notably I do get strong effects from low doses of codeine-type opioids and have very short-lived DXM trips, other things that might suggest higher activity via this enzyme....
Yeah, I would really love to get my hands on some pure synthetic 5-HO tryptamines too, especially 5-HO-MET and 5-HO-MPT, but I would have to agree that the body loads may be an issue or prevent them from getting popular too. The only bufotenine I've had was poorly extracted so it may not be the best idea example, but it did hit my body like a fucking train, unbelievaly uncomfortable and alarming in the moment, and while it was nowhere near as bad, 5-MeO-MiPT at 8 mg was already beginning to produce some of the same effects from bufotenine that are not common with other tryptamines for me, like feelings of being uncomfortably hot or having some weird GI tension, and 5-MeO-EiPT for me was actually far worse and almost as bad as bufotenine, and specifically getting that bad when its own bufotenine-like visuals kicked in for me. So, I definitely think it's something worth considering, but I'd still want to do them anyway... especially 5-HO-MiPT, since once again 5-MeO-MiPT was very light and fleeting with these physical effects by comparison even though they were indeed present.
The euphoria of 5-MeO-MiPT is quite nice for me too, very comparable to LSD in a way alike MiPT and 4-HO-MiPT.
I've not tried 5-MeO-DMT though I'm afraid, but you're definitely reviving my interest in it....Fun fact, 5-HO-DiPT was profiled at serotonin receptors decades ago and seems likely to be a decently active psychedelic, but I'm pretty sure that was the first and last time it was ever investigated either scientifically or recreational, and there were no notes on the body load. Given the reputation of 5-MeO-DiPT, you wouldn't see me being the first volunteer....
I don't know, I'm pretty sure it was fractal enchantment who used to do bufotenine all the time out of respect for the extreme trip but still eventually decided it wasn't worth the horrendous body load anyway.... I've definitely seen opinions all over the place on this, I probably wouldn't expect it to be kind to you until you've tried it yourself to be sure.
You know, I always had that impression too, but the more I think about it, the I'm not sure it actually came from anywhere. I don't think bufotenine is considered very dangerous from animal tests like LD50, and I've heard of some ridiculous oral doses of 5-MeO-MiPT like 80-100 mg that were described as non-threatening despite many 5-MeOs seeming to produce problems when taken by ROAs that avoid metabolism to their 5-HOs, like rectally. And, for the record, I read that serotonin syndrome requires something like fifty-five times the normal serotonin concentration to actually start becoming dangerous....
Here's an interesting idea.... I actually read recently that 5-HT2A receptors are present in many of the same peripheral neurons as TRPV1 channels, the site activated by capsaicin from chili peppers, which appear to produce a nociceptive signal via glutamate release. Could it simply be that high efficacy 5-HT2A receptor agonists can merely produce the illusion of pain sensitivity and overheating via potentiation of these same activity channels, but don't actually produce any threatening effects at all this way, and the downstream NMDA receptors could maybe be the target by which dissociatives largely reverse psychedelic body loads? Just some food for thought....
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Interesting thoughts Kaleida. Dissos certainly do reduce psychedelic bodyloads. I also wasn't aware that 5-HO-DiPT had ever been assayed. I'd like to know more about that.
Dissos certainly do reduce psychedelic bodyloads. I also wasn't aware that 5-HO-DiPT had ever been assayed. I'd like to know more about that.
Kaleida
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Thank yous. I thought it was a worthwhile idea.... Yeah, dissociatives can make a huge difference for me, a full balloon of nitrous oxide was capable of even 100% stopping my bufotenine body load in its tracks, for a moment. I figure there must be some kind of connection....
Here's that paper for you to check out:
Differential interactions of indolealkylamines with 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor subtypes.
The data is older and limited, but they did test an interesting and unusual set of tryptamine derivatives at 5-HT1A, 5-HT2A, and 5-HT2B, such as 5-Me-MiPT, 4-HO-DiBT, 4-HO-DsBT, and N-methyl-N-isopropylbenzofuran. The first one actually interests me quite a bit too, the data seems to suggest that 5-methyl tryptamines in general might be decently potent....
I thought it was a worthwhile idea.... Yeah, dissociatives can make a huge difference for me, a full balloon of nitrous oxide was capable of even 100% stopping my bufotenine body load in its tracks, for a moment. I figure there must be some kind of connection....Here's that paper for you to check out:
Differential interactions of indolealkylamines with 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor subtypes.
The data is older and limited, but they did test an interesting and unusual set of tryptamine derivatives at 5-HT1A, 5-HT2A, and 5-HT2B, such as 5-Me-MiPT, 4-HO-DiBT, 4-HO-DsBT, and N-methyl-N-isopropylbenzofuran. The first one actually interests me quite a bit too, the data seems to suggest that 5-methyl tryptamines in general might be decently potent....
@Kaleida:
That is really very interesting. Amazing how different 8mg can be. For me 8mg oral is absolutely nothing in the visual department. I start to get very very faint visuals (just on the level to start to get aware of minor visual perception changes) at dosages of 16-20mg.
Lol, seems like 5-MeO-MiPT is an excellent test to see what kind of CYP2D6 metabolizer you are...
Seems like I'm a poor one, as also even on high Codeine dosages, I hardly feel anything...
But OTOH makes one also rethink about experience reports of other 5-MeO substances as I would suggest this difference occurs to all of them. So these reports are possibly highly dependent on personal CYP2D6 metabolism.
Reports of poor metabolizers show the effects of the 5-MeO itself, whereas strong metabolizers probably rather experience the 5-HO.
That paper is really interesting BTW. Thanks!
I'm really wondering now about 5-methyl-trypts. Has anyone else ever heard of any research on them?
And I now ordered some A. colubrina to do some extraction. Rekindled my interest in 5-HO-DMT. Want to test it myself now.
As I read with Xylene rexing it is quite easy to get crystalline bufotenine.
But apart from purity, the different experiences regarding side effects could also stem from differences in metabolism.
That is really very interesting. Amazing how different 8mg can be. For me 8mg oral is absolutely nothing in the visual department. I start to get very very faint visuals (just on the level to start to get aware of minor visual perception changes) at dosages of 16-20mg.
Lol, seems like 5-MeO-MiPT is an excellent test to see what kind of CYP2D6 metabolizer you are...
Seems like I'm a poor one, as also even on high Codeine dosages, I hardly feel anything...
But OTOH makes one also rethink about experience reports of other 5-MeO substances as I would suggest this difference occurs to all of them. So these reports are possibly highly dependent on personal CYP2D6 metabolism.
Reports of poor metabolizers show the effects of the 5-MeO itself, whereas strong metabolizers probably rather experience the 5-HO.
That paper is really interesting BTW. Thanks!
I'm really wondering now about 5-methyl-trypts. Has anyone else ever heard of any research on them?
And I now ordered some A. colubrina to do some extraction. Rekindled my interest in 5-HO-DMT. Want to test it myself now.
As I read with Xylene rexing it is quite easy to get crystalline bufotenine.
But apart from purity, the different experiences regarding side effects could also stem from differences in metabolism.
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
You may have a good point. I remember my first research chemical experience, I was in college and some guy across the street was selling 20mg doses of "foxy" (which was a crazy high single dose, also I knew nothing about 5-MeO-DiPT at the time nor did he say it was called that, I found out later). I enjoyed it but didn't find it visual at all, I remember music sounded crazy, I felt good and me and my friends laughed like crazy. But one of my friends said it was the hardest she's ever tripped, every time she did it. She experienced visuals stronger than any she'd ever had from LSD and would be just totally off the planet level tripping, while the rest of us were nowhere near that level.