Zeta:
Ah, it's no wonder I missed this, lamanogaucha! It happened just about a month before I finally returned here from a long absence. I very much appreciate you linking me to the full story. Also, before getting into my more scientific response, let me just say that I am very thankful you are okay and nothing worse occurred! And I am very happy you recognized what was happening and went to the hospital when you did.
I must say, this is highly concerning. Speaking only from my
incredibly amateur perspective on this matter, I feel I must mention that that it sounds very much to me like you may have been experiencing rhabdomyolysis. In case you aren't familiar with it (and again I am no medical professional so please take my word with caution, but I am basing this on widely available and regularly repeated information), rhabdomyolysis is a condition involving a rapid breakdown of skeletal muscle. While there are many things that can cause it and thus it is somewhat difficult to nail down with absolute precision, one of the most common (but to my knowledge not ubiquitous) signs of it first of all would be muscle weakness; I don't believe I saw you mention this directly, but correct me if I'm wrong in thinking that there may be a hint of it in your claim that "[t]he walk [to the hospital] took considerable effort...." More definitely relevant to what else you had to say,
one of the primary symptoms of rhabdomyolysis is significant leakage of myoglobin into the system, potentially leading to kidney failure. Furthermore, rhabdomyolysis can be treated to full recovery
if promptly administered IV fluids.
You may or may not know this, but rhabdomyolysis is a rather common severe and potentially lethal effect of "overdoses" of certain psychedelic drugs. It is documented in a significant number of NBOMe death cases, and
a scientific study has already directly linked 25B-NBOMe-mediated 5-HT2A receptor activation to rhabdomyolysis in zebrafish larvae. Rhabdomyolysis has also been documented in non-NBOMe psychedelic emergency reactions such as with
DOC,
5-MeO-DiPT,
and DPT. In the case of DPT, it was also noted to occur alongside tachycardia. For what it's worth,
5-HT2A receptor stimulation has also already been documented to be able to increase glucose levels, and of course serotonergic systems in general are already well-known to be able to affect blood pressure and heart rate.
I would very strongly recommend that all current and aspiring psychonauts take this very important lesson to heart:
JUST BECAUSE IT'S A TRYPTAMINE DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S SAFE TO PUSH THE DOSAGE INFINITELY.
I do not mean to suggest that you were being particularly irresponsible in this case, lamanogaucha, as the dosage you took is not outside what I have heard about before or would have roughly expected translated from the dosages people were taking through non-oral routes of administration. In fact, we have taken 100 mg of 4-HO-DPT orally ourselves based on this reasoning, though while we didn't have an emergency reaction such as you did here, the body load we received at that dosage was already miserable, and it is what prevented us from pushing it further or taking it again in any way as of yet.
Everything I have said so far was based on research and information that I specifically tied back to 5-HT2A receptor stimulation. However, I would also like to make a more theoretical note, to be taken with a grain of salt at this point in time, that we have been doing additional research in our spare time that has led us to believe that most if not at all tryptamines can probably also produce anticholinergic effects if taken at high enough dosages, dosages that may not always or often be too relevant to the effects of most of them, but especially including the kinds of particularly large dosages required for tryptamines such as 4-HO-DPT. There are many claims throughout this thread and elsewhere that 4-HO-DPT, especially in particularly high dosages, can produce hallucinogenic effects that are unlike what the users are familiar with on most other psychedelics and tend to involve more realistic hallucinations, which would in and of itself be similar to anticholinergic deliriants, and, while it seems like the posts may have been deleted, there was once a report in this thread of taking 500 mg of 4-HO-DPT orally that resulted in what sounded to us at least like a complete anticholinergic delirium, including the conversations with people who weren't really there. While most of the time we have been researching the potential psychedelic-deliriant overlap personally out of curiosity related to how it might impact the hallucinogenic and mind-altering effects of these substances, it is also worth considering that altered heart rate, blood pressure, and glucose levels, as well as rhabdomyolysis have all been documented specifically as a result of taking anticholinergic drugs as well, and thus, if 4-HO-DPT (or other similar tryptamines) does have this kind of activity as well in addition to its standard serotonergic properties, its risk of having these problems occur could also be greater relative to other psychedelics.
On that note as well about people who have already taken dosages of this in the order of several hundreds of milligrams orally and survived, let's not forget that people have died on much smaller dosages of NBOMes than others were perfectly fine on.
I need to wrap this up now but that's about all I have to say about this so far anyway. Does any of this sound on point to you at all, lamanogaucha?
Also, I'm curious, what nasal antihistamine are you employing? Particularly because many antihistamines also have anticholinergic effects, which could of course plausibly increase the risk further both additively with any potential anticholinergic effects of 4-HO-DPT and independently from them if it doesn't really have them for the same reasons it having them could increase the risk on its own.
Once again, I thank you very much for the thorough report and warning as well, and hope you are feeling fully recovered and healthy as of now.