Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-HO-DPT Thread

[Working_Class]

MiPT has been said to have some similar effects. I'd read that Foxy (5-MEO-MiPT) can have some negative interactions when taken alongside other drugs

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

So it seems 4-HO-DPT fumarate is highly insoluble in water....I'd like to try to freebase it to vape...
Can anyone with chemistry knowledge give any ideas ....there MUST be a way.
Any advice would be tremendously appreciated!

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

I decided to give vaporized 4-HO-DPT another shot. I had previously used sodium carbonate to convert some to freebase and ended up with a gray-green glob of it that turned hard when it dried. Vaporizing that out of an oil burner worked, but had a horrible chemical taste and left a lot of residue behind. I suspected that there was a lot of unreacted 4-HO-DPT fumarate in it, so I chopped it up and used heptane to recrystallize it. The yield was pretty small, but I ended up with some some nice sparkly crystalline 4-HO-DPT freebase. It's a gritty powder, not oily or waxy like freebase DPT and DMT.

I put about 8mg into an oil burner to test it. It melted and vaporized easily and didn't have a noticeable taste. I smoked no more than half of what I put in the pipe, but experienced some surprisingly strong effects. Within seconds, my vision started warping and colors started shifting. The effects do seem different vaporized compared to snorted or oral. The body load was a bit too much. I felt really shaky and had some nausea. 4-HO-DPT already gives me uncomfortable body load normally, but the sudden onset made it worse. It wasn't too bad though because the effects were so short-lived.

Interesting!!!
I completely missed this post...but I'm going to be running some conversion experiments in the next few weeks to see what would be the best way to freebase this stuff...I'm not in any way adept at chemistry so I have a bunch of most likely silly ideas of how to approach this....can you basify alcohols???
I wonder about dissolving 4-ho-dpt into the smallest possible amount of propylene glycol then adding baking soda and just seeing what happens....no idea if this is completely dumb or absolutely brilliant but without some solid chemistry advice it'll be a lot of trial and error...

EDIT:
Found this on another forum
"I had some success with using a flame to boil it with water in a spoon to increase solubility, as well as with adding propylene glycol, which seems to increase solubility as well as the viscosity of the mixture, enabling the undissolved portion to form a more uniform suspension."
My first thought would be to use boiling water, add the base (bicarbonate) and 4-ho-dpt hopefully it goes into solution at that temp and then use Naptha to recrystalize through freeze perception just like what's described in a DMT extraction tek...
If I have time I'll post my results next week!

 

[Neuroborean]

MiPT has been said to have some similar effects. I'd read that Foxy (5-MEO-MiPT) can have some negative interactions when taken alongside other drugs

the thing with MOXY (5-meo-mipt), is that probably has a lot of receptor interaction going on, affecting so many things at the same time, the serotonin aspect is quite obvious on its own, and the "physical involvement" seems quite clear too, (I know that is not a scientific way of talking but well..).
There's at least one paper that talks about organ damage in intermediate and high doses on rats, on 5-meo-mipt, the thing is that the drug was injected, and perhaps the first pass metabolism creates some non-that-toxic metabolites... who knows.

New Psychoactive Substance 5-MeO-MiPT In vivo Acute Toxicity and Hystotoxicological Study - PubMed

Low-dose 5-MeO-MiPT did not cause any serious histopathological effects on the liver, kidney, and brain. High doses induce apoptotic cell death through caspase activity.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Personally I wouldn't inject it nor use nasal route, even if we don't know how it works in humans sometimes I've had strange and painful twinges in very specific points of the gut that I didn't like, as well as bloating at the end of the experience.
My gf had a very bad psychotic episode on moxy once, and she was taking anti-depressants and low dose antipsychotics (to sleep) by that time, so, anecdotally, I would say it's better to be "clear" of shit before using moxy.

 

[Neuroborean]

Yeah 4-HO-DPT's dose is pretty high, and in addition, it really is not very much like plain DPT at all. I can't imagine it producing an ego death type of experience, it's very chill and peaceful feeling at any dose I've tried it at.

how would you define it, more or less?
I'm reading this page by page but I cannot find out how it its basic character, for example compared with 4-ho-mipt of 4-ho-met, those are the 4subs I've tried, I would like to have a basic idea since I've had intense experiences with things like DMT and I don't want a crazy rollercoaster at the moment, I like introspection and adventure, visuals are also welcome, would this substance fit?

 

[Xorkoth]

I don't know, to be honest. I only took it the one time at an active dose. It was subtle yet kind of powerful. I got the sense at a higher dose it could have really taken off, but I haven't gotten to revising it yet. Hard to explain what it was like. Definitely not in your face at all at the dose I took. Pretty pleasurable, but also clearheaded.

 

[Neuroborean]

So then, in which way it was intense/powerful?

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

how would you define it, more or less?
I'm reading this page by page but I cannot find out how it its basic character, for example compared with 4-ho-mipt of 4-ho-met, those are the 4subs I've tried, I would like to have a basic idea since I've had intense experiences with things like DMT and I don't want a crazy rollercoaster at the moment, I like introspection and adventure, visuals are also welcome, would this substance fit?

The 4 subbed versions are more like simple dpt than any if the other 4 subbed tryptamines.
I prefer snorting only this chemical as it has absolutely no burn at all but the effects are mild snorted compared to the same amount eaten.
It requires a larger dose orally as well at least around 50mg and I've tried it up to 200mg orally but I do not reccomend such a dose.
Orally it produces strong muscle tremors and incredible visuals.
Nasally it's much lighter and provides very interesting closed eye visuals.
Nasally it's more introspective and orally it's just like your along for the ride sort of like mushrooms are .
The 4aco version is more potent orally and produced no muscle tremors.
The 4aco version is by far my all time favorite tryptamine....it's visually unlike anything else.

 

[Xorkoth]

So then, in which way it was intense/powerful?

I felt a warm vibration and for a bit I felt like I was about to rise up out of my head. I closed my eyes and saw the shadows trying to part, and in the music I felt and saw a structure build around me from the directional qualities of the sound recording. At the same time, I could open my eyes and felt rather clearheaded and like I could probably deal with an unexpected situation. It was subtle yet powerful. It felt like it could become very powerful at maybe double the dose (I did I think 32mg or 36mg snorted, if I recall). That's the best I can explain it.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

I'm about to try vaping a small amount of this as a freebase green (blackish) oil.
It's impossible to weigh this goo so I'll start with a match head size blob....will report back in a few hours.....hopefully it's fireworks!

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

A match head size drop onto a ceramic flavor disc produced nearly overwhelming effects.
I was able to.set my rig down and turn the lights off and stumble into bed.
Extremely powerful stuff.
Duration I'd say maim effects when.vaped around 20 mins though still feeling afterglow

 

[Neuroborean]

The 4 subbed versions are more like simple dpt than any if the other 4 subbed tryptamines.
I prefer snorting only this chemical as it has absolutely no burn at all but the effects are mild snorted compared to the same amount eaten.
It requires a larger dose orally as well at least around 50mg and I've tried it up to 200mg orally but I do not reccomend such a dose.
Orally it produces strong muscle tremors and incredible visuals.
Nasally it's much lighter and provides very interesting closed eye visuals.
Nasally it's more introspective and orally it's just like your along for the ride sort of like mushrooms are .
The 4aco version is more potent orally and produced no muscle tremors.
The 4aco version is by far my all time favorite tryptamine....it's visually unlike anything else.

Can you explain to me a couple things?
1-why the visuals are different than anything else? more OEVs or CEVs?
2- when you say it's more like DPT than any other 4subbed, you mean it's as eerie and sinister as DPT is normally said to be? it's the Aco version the same in this aspect?

I don't know if the Aco version could bring "spirit abduction" moments which I'm not inclined to feel at the moment, just because it would be so similar to DPT. But well, never tried dpt, so I don't know how could affect me.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Can you explain to me a couple things?
1-why the visuals are different than anything else? more OEVs or CEVs?
2- when you say it's more like DPT than any other 4subbed, you mean it's as eerie and sinister as DPT is normally said to be? it's the Aco version the same in this aspect?

I don't know if the Aco version could bring "spirit abduction" moments which I'm not inclined to feel at the moment, just because it would be so similar to DPT. But well, never tried dpt, so I don't know how could affect me.

This is probably the absolute weirdest tryptamine in my opinion.
Snorted, I've only ever experienced extremely complex closed eye visuals that seems extremely ordered.
Oral administration produces very DPT like open eye visuals but also much muscle tremors in the arms and legs.
I've never felt thst DPT had a darkness personally but if I had to compare the AcO ver vs the HO I'd say the AcO version is much much friendlier. The HO version seems more serious and less forgiving orally.
I generally never snort any drugs ever but I make an exception for pretty much only this chemical on rare occasions because so far its the subjectively best ROA I've tried.

 

[Neuroborean]

This is probably the absolute weirdest tryptamine in my opinion.
Snorted, I've only ever experienced extremely complex closed eye visuals that seems extremely ordered.
Oral administration produces very DPT like open eye visuals but also much muscle tremors in the arms and legs.
I've never felt thst DPT had a darkness personally but if I had to compare the AcO ver vs the HO I'd say the AcO version is much much friendlier. The HO version seems more serious and less forgiving orally.
I generally never snort any drugs ever but I make an exception fir ordtty much only this chemical on rare occasions because so far its the subjectively best ROA I've tried.

Ok, got it, thanks!
then I only have another question,
How would you compare DPT oevs to 4-ho-mipt or DMT? because I don't have any idea about them, people usually say that are "powerful" and sometimes close to hallucinations but I've read a lot of different stuff, like entities or powerful colors like on bufotenine...

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Ok, got it, thanks!
then I only have another question,
How would you compare DPT oevs to 4-ho-mipt or DMT? because I don't have any idea about them, people usually say that are "powerful" and sometimes close to hallucinations but I've read a lot of different stuff, like entities or powerful colors like on bufotenine...

DPT is like DMT older more serious brother thst you could learn a lot from but who just might beat your ass if that makes any sense.
I really like DPT but it has a more serious tone to it than DMT.
The other 4 subs are uncomparable
I'd say 4acodmt is maybe closest to DMT.
And the same is true for tge DPT 4 subbed versions.
4ho/aco met is pretty different from met and 4aco/ho mipt is quite different from mipt.
Probably has to do with symmetry.

 

[Neuroborean]

DPT is like DMT older more serious brother thst you could learn a lot from but who just might beat your ass if that makes any sense.
I really like DPT but it has a more serious tone to it than DMT.
The other 4 subs are uncomparable
I'd say 4acodmt is maybe closest to DMT.
And the same is true for tge DPT 4 subbed versions.
4ho/aco met is pretty different from met and 4aco/ho mipt is quite different from mipt.
Probably has to do with symmetry.

I guess if DMT beats my ass if I take a big dose (breakthrough) then it would be dangerous for me to use something more "serious", I do consider DMT extremely serious, but maybe is because I judge it by it's spiritual undertone, more than anything else, I don't think it can be compared to other psychedelics (that I've done). If DPT is more serious because of it's spiritual undertone then I may be better far from it or analogues..

 

[Kaleida]

My gf had a very bad psychotic episode on moxy once, and she was taking anti-depressants and low dose antipsychotics (to sleep) by that time, so, anecdotally, I would say it's better to be "clear" of shit before using moxy.

This actually seems to be a relatively more common risk with 5-methoxytryptamines compared to other common psychedelics. Despite having a reputation for being light (aside from 5-MeO-DMT), some people trip extremely hard on them and I've heard of psychotic reactions from both 5-MeO-MiPT and 5-MeO-DiPT. My most extreme episode ever was clearly triggered by 5-MeO-EiPT. Even people that smoke 5-MeO-DMT often talk about still "battling spirits" and such for weeks after. They're ridiculously powerful molecules that in my opinion should not be considered exactly the same as most other psychedelics, even the synthetic analogues that are often said to be more recreational.

how would you define it, more or less?
I'm reading this page by page but I cannot find out how it its basic character, for example compared with 4-ho-mipt of 4-ho-met, those are the 4subs I've tried, I would like to have a basic idea since I've had intense experiences with things like DMT and I don't want a crazy rollercoaster at the moment, I like introspection and adventure, visuals are also welcome, would this substance fit?

4-HO-DPT is literally nothing like DMT as far as tryptamines go. In my experience it is extremely calm and smooth, in fact it's the only psychedelic I can clearly remember not having stimulation from on the comeup aside from DPT, and it's definitely lighter than DPT, although I find them superficially comparable. Honestly, I'm not sure introspection, adventure, or visuals are the right reason to go into it.... It's pretty unique. To me the thing that stands out the most about it is that at low dosages it feels like most of the psychedelic effects have been hollowed out compared to other tryptamines and it's just a euphoric and dissociating psychedelic high, but if you take a high enough dosage certain effects are still present, and those effects being really strong like normal yet separate from the other effects that usually come with high dosage tryptamines is part of what makes it so novel. I can be wandering around lost in thought feeling almost entirely unaltered, yet close my eyes and see very vivid, sexy, and intricate tryptamine-like closed eye visions, moving around very 3D perhaps more than on most 4-substituted tryptamines, but without too much overwhelming sensory overload or anything like that. If I do take enough to get geometric visuals, they also stand out as very unique from most other tryptamines, broad and darkly colored, but very pleasant to look at. I actually consider it one of the easiest tryptamines and it's not one of my favorites but it has given me some memorable experiences. I have known some people who really love it a lot.

I don't know if the Aco version could bring "spirit abduction" moments which I'm not inclined to feel at the moment, just because it would be so similar to DPT. But well, never tried dpt, so I don't know how could affect me.

If you want my advice, don't try to fathom DPT before you try it. You'll probably be wrong and a lot of people scare themselves off of it due to the reputation some have given it for being dark. In my amateur opinion and also some of other people I've known to use it much more than myself, it can actually be a much easier molecule to use than DMT, just don't go overboard with the dosing for your first time. It having a more serious tone doesn't make it a harder trip, it's really a nice psychedelic all together in most ways. Most people I know who use it find it incredibly blissful and I thought it was also one of the easiest psychedelics I've ever used, especially for its intensity.

How would you compare DPT oevs to 4-ho-mipt or DMT? because I don't have any idea about them, people usually say that are "powerful" and sometimes close to hallucinations but I've read a lot of different stuff, like entities or powerful colors like on bufotenine...

Closer to 4-HO-MiPT than DMT but stronger. DPT's open eye visuals actually remind me of 4-HO-MPT's and they're something about it I really enjoy. Lots of trippy faces everywhere for me. (This is also similar to 4-HO-MET but with less of a plant vibe.) They're nowhere near as powerful as bufotenine's open eye visuals, but you can insert literally any other psychedelic there in the place of DPT and that will still be true for me.

I guess if DMT beats my ass if I take a big dose (breakthrough) then it would be dangerous for me to use something more "serious", I do consider DMT extremely serious, but maybe is because I judge it by it's spiritual undertone, more than anything else, I don't think it can be compared to other psychedelics (that I've done). If DPT is more serious because of it's spiritual undertone then I may be better far from it or analogues..

Honestly, DMT is miserable compared to most other psychedelics. It feels so sweaty and alien and uncompromising. On DPT the spirits are apprehensive of me, not the other way around. But really, don't think too much about it until you try it, that's my advice. Like, think about it enough to do it safely, but try not to expect much from the trip. Just start modestly with your dosing and it's really not that much of a deal.

 

[Neuroborean]

Honestly, DMT is miserable compared to most other psychedelics. It feels so sweaty and alien and uncompromising. On DPT the spirits are apprehensive of me, not the other way around. But really, don't think too much about it until you try it, that's my advice. Like, think about it enough to do it safely, but try not to expect much from the trip. Just start modestly with your dosing and it's really not that much of a deal.

Thanks for your message Kaleida, a lot to think of and to compare with. As you can imagine if one starts trying to know how a substance is, before the triangulation process the most common thing is to find contradicting reports, or at least reports that vary a lot. That's always the reason why I tend to test substance instead of just decide in a second-hand "no-thing", (but I like to ask, anyway).
Some people say that DPT is very eerie and dark, some even say demonic. I didn't tell you, yet, about my DMT breakthrough and what happent the week/months later, I think, probably is in any of my messages of this forum, not sure, my memory is not the best. I wouldn't want at the moment anything like that since I'm in a complicated moment of my life where I need to be 100% awake and functional, cannot commit mistakes, for a while. That's why I thought, thinkin about those reports, that DPT could be not my thing. Maybe, I'll just give it time, and dose low.
Seems that Aco or Ho DPT could be much easier than DPT, then I would try, for some months I was away from psychedelics, that's an important thing to consider! I reconciled with psychs in my last low dose 4-ho-mipt trip.

his actually seems to be a relatively more common risk with 5-methoxytryptamines compared to other common psychedelics. Despite having a reputation for being light (aside from 5-MeO-DMT), some people trip extremely hard on them and I've heard of psychotic reactions from both 5-MeO-MiPT and 5-MeO-DiPT. My most extreme episode ever was clearly triggered by 5-MeO-EiPT. Even people that smoke 5-MeO-DMT often talk about still "battling spirits" and such for weeks after. They're ridiculously powerful molecules that in my opinion should not be considered exactly the same as most other psychedelics, even the synthetic analogues that are often said to be more recreational.

Now I think more or less the same, I was initially doubious about using it or not because of it's potency, I had bio-assayed once before sharing it, but I considered it to be... neutral or positive in terms of headspace, only with a somewhat sexy/perverted/"dark" undertone sometimes, but nothing really sinister. Then I discovered that it can cause a lot of wreck and I saw the most suffocating thought-loop ever, I didn't acted allright cause I found I didn't have proper tools at that moment, it was very difficult to manage, and I gave up when I thought the stuff was finishing (because I thought that we were clearly on the comedown), it was another mistake.. I felt guilty for quite a long time (she also made me feel that way) but was a big big learning for me (and probably for her too).
Strangely enough something similar happened to her during a 20mg ho-met trip months after that which I think it's not that normal...

It's remarkable that you called DMT miserable and uncompromising, never heard that words about it, but certainly it seems totally uncompromising. My feel there was that I was not invited there in anyway, that I didn't belong there and that they would like me to be a toy (even if they couldn't) to have fun in the cosmic spirit lands. Never had that feeling with other psychs but again, I think it's totally different from other psychs I've tried. Alien it's another appropiate word but that one is commonly heard about it... I'm not sure what that world is so I may go again, even having grown a lot of respect for it, I don't share the "it's our subconscious mind" hypothesis nor the biochemical reductionist point of view.

 

[Kaleida]

Thanks for your message Kaleida, a lot to think of and to compare with. As you can imagine if one starts trying to know how a substance is, before the triangulation process the most common thing is to find contradicting reports, or at least reports that vary a lot. That's always the reason why I tend to test substance instead of just decide in a second-hand "no-thing", (but I like to ask, anyway).

No problem, and I totally get that. I've just known a lot of people to scare themselves off of DPT without even trying it based on some of the reports so I try to warn people against doing so. Something else I think may get in the way of people getting a good picture of it is lots of the early reports used what I would now describe as ludicrously high dosages, like snorting over 100 mg and sometimes as high as 250 mg without even having any experience with it. 30 mg smoked was notably powerful and satisfying for me for my first time.

Some people say that DPT is very eerie and dark, some even say demonic. I didn't tell you, yet, about my DMT breakthrough and what happent the week/months later, I think, probably is in any of my messages of this forum, not sure, my memory is not the best. I wouldn't want at the moment anything like that since I'm in a complicated moment of my life where I need to be 100% awake and functional, cannot commit mistakes, for a while. That's why I thought, thinkin about those reports, that DPT could be not my thing. Maybe, I'll just give it time, and dose low.

It can be dark, but like I said in the other thread it is comparable to 4-AcO-DET for me where the darkness is more about the theme of the trip, not the feeling. It is a very, very different vibe from DMT for me. DMT is like a terrifying heaven and DPT is like a soothing hell.

In my experience, base tryptamine trips in general do seem to have a tendency to stick with you after the fact, not as much as 5-methoxytryptamines but more so than 4-substituted tryptamines on average. I would probably recommend avoiding them for the moment if you don't want some trailing headspace.

Seems that Aco or Ho DPT could be much easier than DPT, then I would try, for some months I was away from psychedelics, that's an important thing to consider! I reconciled with psychs in my last low dose 4-ho-mipt trip.

I definitely think they're easier, and fairly easy in general (probably unless you take a huge dosage, anyway). I get why you bring up the break but that really doesn't give me much apprehension with 4-HO-DPT still. I'd be more afraid of the 4-HO-MiPT personally.

Now I think more or less the same, I was initially doubious about using it or not because of it's potency, I had bio-assayed once before sharing it, but I considered it to be... neutral or positive in terms of headspace, only with a somewhat sexy/perverted/"dark" undertone sometimes, but nothing really sinister. Then I discovered that it can cause a lot of wreck and I saw the most suffocating thought-loop ever, I didn't acted allright cause I found I didn't have proper tools at that moment, it was very difficult to manage, and I gave up when I thought the stuff was finishing (because I thought that we were clearly on the comedown), it was another mistake.. I felt guilty for quite a long time (she also made me feel that way) but was a big big learning for me (and probably for her too).

That definitely sounds rough, but I'm glad you learned from it. I once rather carelessly introduced someone else to psychedelic research chemicals as their first hallucinogens, and they quickly had an order of at least DPT and 5-MeO-MiPT and I want to say at least something else I forget now that they were going balls deep into on their own with almost no guidance from myself or anyone else. I didn't even learn that they had DPT until they said something to me like "Yeah, I got a gram of DPT but I railed that up pretty quickly, it was great." and I was like "I'm sorry, you did what?" One night he texted me out of the blue saying he took a huge dosage of 5-MeO-MiPT and was basically stuck in his first ever crazy thought loop and they had already been tripping for like ten hours with no signs of slowing down. I think it took them around fourteen to start moving beyond it, but it's been years now. I stayed on the line for as long as they needed help and they were good again after a while. It's definitely a much more powerful drug than it's given credit for, even if a lot of people manage to get away with a light trip for low dosages.

Strangely enough something similar happened to her during a 20mg ho-met trip months after that which I think it's not that normal...

It's normal enough, especially for someone who trips hard on 5-MeO-MiPT. 4-HO-MET is another one whose reputation has started to over/undersell what it really is, because for years now it's been the go-to answer most times anyone asks "What's the psychedelic with the least headspace and the most visuals?" Which it's not necessarily the best answer for either by the way, but I think it's the one that fits that question that the most people have taken by this point, and relatively consistently does that for them.

4-HO-MET can definitely still throw people for a loop. I have a good friend who considers it and 4-AcO-MET to be about as powerful as any other mentally deep tryptamine and more than some for sure. We have discussed it at length and tend to agree that it is in some ways just different than something like psilocin, maybe sharing some of the qualities of things like DPT and 4-AcO-DET that we've mentioned here and elsewhere too, where its dreaminess somewhat belies the depths of its capacity to alter consciousness. I find it to be a lot like LSD in its headspace personally, which is generally still pretty controllable to me after it really sets in and I'd say 4-HO-MET is lighter than that still, but it's still a very heady trip for me, just one where I usually still know what's actually going on.

It's remarkable that you called DMT miserable and uncompromising, never heard that words about it, but certainly it seems totally uncompromising. My feel there was that I was not invited there in anyway, that I didn't belong there and that they would like me to be a toy (even if they couldn't) to have fun in the cosmic spirit lands.

That is what they want, hyperspace entities are like that. Eternity gets boring.

Can't speak to whether or not they want you there. Mine actively tell me they want me to come so that they can play with me, but they didn't always. I've heard of people having many DMT breakthroughs and then suddenly being told to stay out and feeling like they couldn't do it again after that. So, if you feel like it's not the time to go in, maybe try again during another phase in life.

Never had that feeling with other psychs but again, I think it's totally different from other psychs I've tried. Alien it's another appropiate word but that one is commonly heard about it... I'm not sure what that world is so I may go again, even having grown a lot of respect for it, I don't share the "it's our subconscious mind" hypothesis nor the biochemical reductionist point of view.

Nothing makes me feel exactly like DMT does and I've taken a lot of psychedelics at this point. There's something different about it for sure, although I'm not rating that difference as either better or worse.

My theories on the reality of these experiences are... unusual.