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Lysergamides The Big & Dandy 1P-LSD Thread - Volume 2

I want to dilute 10mgs of this to make drops of about 100ugs, what liquid should I use and how many mililiters? part alcohol part distilled water?
 
polidelaiko said:
I want to dilute 10mgs of this to make drops of about 100ugs, what liquid should I use and how many mililiters? part alcohol part distilled water?
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Assuming solubilities follow LSD, either distilled deionized water (DDH2O) or grain neutral spirits (Everclear/rectified alcohol), or the 2 in combination; DDH2O should work fine, GNS is more traditional in some circles particularly when putting it on paper but has the liability of evaporating if you are looking to store it in liquid which is actually a positive if you are laying blotter. The 1:1 combination (which is basically vodka) is commonly enough used too. This ensures that no nasty mold or any kind of stuff could form inside there even though this is unlikely. It does dissolve stuff a bit better than DDH2O although you should definitely be able to get 10mg into 2.5-3mL (the standard breath mint bottle) or whatever you are using, again assuming solubility is like LSD's, hopefully someone could come along and give a reliable answer to that.
 
Thomas Davie said:
I understand what you're saying, and to the extent that there are the same 'types' of receptors in rat brains, I'll agree that animal testing is of interest and limited applicability to humans. As soon as you start to talk about protein sequence differences and mechanisms of control (between species) I'll claim that all you can do is make limited inferences as regards comparison to humans. If this is all one wants to do, I'm completely on board.

However, when a researcher claims (for example) that 1P-LSD is 38% as active as LSD using rat models, you (a general you, not you personally) have to add in the caveat 'in rats'.

Add in ethics restrictions to the limited time, money and manpower that hobbles research into human studies with hallucinogens. And at the end of the day there probably isn't much money in it.

Tom
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All the paper said is that 1P-LSD induced head twitch in mice with 38% of the potency of LSD. That is a factually true statement.

The abstract read: "...male C57BL/6 J mice were injected with vehicle (saline) or 1P-LSD (0.025-0.8 mg/kg, IP) and HTR assessed for 30 min...It was found that 1P-LSD produced a dose-dependent increase in HTR counts, and that it had ~38% (ED50  = 349.6 nmol/kg) of the potency of LSD (ED50  = 132.8 nmol/kg)."

They stated the species they were testing an and the potency of 1P-LSD. They never claimed 1P-LSD has 38% of the potency of LSD in humans. I really don't see what the issue is that you are raising with regard to what they wrote in the abstract.

5-HT2A receptors are actually very similar in mice and humans...the structure of the binding site is about 90% identical. If you think that we should only be working with human 5-HT2A receptors then you will run into a big problem because some humans have 5-HT2A polymorphisms. So across humans there may be just as much difference in 5-HT2A structure as there is across different species! And have you ever noticed that the same prescription medicines are used to treat animals and humans? It really isn't the case that there are huge pharmacological differences between rodents and humans.
 
Thomas Davie said:
I understand what you're saying, and to the extent that there are the same 'types' of receptors in rat brains, I'll agree that animal testing is of interest and limited applicability to humans. As soon as you start to talk about protein sequence differences and mechanisms of control (between species) I'll claim that all you can do is make limited inferences as regards comparison to humans. If this is all one wants to do, I'm completely on board.

However, when a researcher claims (for example) that 1P-LSD is 38% as active as LSD using rat models, you (a general you, not you personally) have to add in the caveat 'in rats'.

Add in ethics restrictions to the limited time, money and manpower that hobbles research into human studies with hallucinogens. And at the end of the day there probably isn't much money in it.

Tom
Click to expand...

All the paper said is that 1P-LSD induced head twitch in mice with 38% of the potency of LSD. That is a factually true statement.

The abstract read: "...male C57BL/6 J mice were injected with vehicle (saline) or 1P-LSD (0.025-0.8 mg/kg, IP) and HTR assessed for 30 min...It was found that 1P-LSD produced a dose-dependent increase in HTR counts, and that it had ~38% (ED50  = 349.6 nmol/kg) of the potency of LSD (ED50  = 132.8 nmol/kg)."

They stated the species they were testing an and the potency of 1P-LSD. They never claimed 1P-LSD has 38% of the potency of LSD in humans. I really don't see what the issue is that you are raising with regard to what they wrote in the abstract.

The receptors are actually very similar in mice and humans...the structure of the binding site is about 90% identical. If the argument is that we should only be working with human 5-HT2A receptors then you will run into a big problem because some humans have 5-HT2A polymorphisms. So across humans there may be just as much difference in 5-HT2A structure as there is across different species! And have you ever noticed that the same prescription medicines are used to treat animals and humans? It really isn't the case that there are huge pharmacological differences between rodents and humans.



rave23 said:
There would be a never-ending supply of volunteers!

Just look at how many people willingly ingest research chemicals.
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Finding volunteers isn't the problem. Unfortunately, it is very expensive and time-consuming to run human studies. Additionally, test drugs have to be prepared using GMP (Good Manufacturing Practice) standards, which is extremely difficult with something like 1P-LSD.
 
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there must be so many obstacles to human trials with drugs in general, let alone psychedelic ones. It seems to be loosening up a bit generally, but it's pretty heavily stigmatized, regulated, unfunded, potentially professionally dubious, liability etc...
 
perpetualdawn said:
there must be so many obstacles to human trials with drugs in general, let alone psychedelic ones. It seems to be loosening up a bit generally, but it's pretty heavily stigmatized, regulated, unfunded, potentially professionally dubious, liability etc...
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A pharmacology study I was involved in in 1992 cost $250,000 US to run over a 30 day period. 60 human volunteers (30 male/30 female; 50% smokers/50% non smokers). 60k went to the volunteers and the rest went to 2 study nurses and lab analysis of samples. And this was for a drug that had already been granted FDA approval. Even though this was on a 'safe' drug that was going to be marketed to people, it still had to pass multiple protocol approvals. It never would have happened without big Pharma behind it.

For an RC such as 1P-LSD, this would probably not happen without philanthropy :) Even for something as safe as Cannabis the purse strings are still clenched pretty tight.

Tom

So, even though I am somewhat opposed to the way that MJ legalization was going forward in Ohio, I do appreciate the fact that backers were willing to throw money into research. Given the failure of their attempt, I wonder what will happen now....
 
WOW this stuff is beautiful. I took 150ug and had the best trip I've had in years.
Battling good and evil in my head, moving with the music, feeling connected and grateful for life, dusting off the corners of my mind I haven't used in a while. At one point I felt I was made of decisions, shedding the bad ones until I feared if I shed all my decisions I wouldn't be anything, but then I realized some decisions can't be shed, and that's a positive thing cause I must have made some good decisions to be where I'm at in life.

I couldn't tell any difference between this and Regular LSD except for that I was never wondering if I was sold a mis-represented product.
Also even though I already knew this it was a great reminder how low street LSD is dosed these days
 
Has anyone tried this with methoxetamine? I'm planning to try it on its own, and then, a month after, with some methoxetamine... unless i read it shouldn't be combine for some reason? Do you think it would be better to have the methoxetamine before, or wait till i feel the effects of the pl1sd, or its peak?
 
On the tail end of my trip I sprinkled like 30mg of mxe onto a bowl of herb and covered it with some ash and smoked that. It made the residual visuals a tiny bit more wobbly, and left me nicely relaxed.
 
supersmoker27 said:
On the tail end of my trip I sprinkled like 30mg of mxe onto a bowl of herb and covered it with some ash and smoked that. It made the residual visuals a tiny bit more wobbly, and left me nicely relaxed.
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i guess it would improve the come down, but at the same time it might make it harder to fall sleep. I've never tried smoking mxe. I prefer to snort it or plug it. I was planning maybe plug 30 mg half an hour after eating the pl1sd
 
I would think taking the MXE first would really be the way to go.....of course I would prolly redose several times over the course of the acid trip
 
i tried 1P yesterday for the first time, and if my calculation were right i took only 57ugs, and man, it was strong, very visual, faces in the grass, smoke coming down the ceiling and touching me, very energetic on the come up. Am i the only one who finds it super strong?
 
I find it very strong man dw I find just more than a half tab has me tripping pretty strong forinstants that comes to mind was a time on half when a friend blew out smoke from a j it came out rainbow coloured . I think it's to do with the purity
 
Has anyone considered this may also breakdown into other lysergiamides, like lsa ? Or is this highly unlikely
 
polidelaiko said:
i tried 1P yesterday for the first time, and if my calculation were right i took only 57ugs, and man, it was strong, very visual, faces in the grass, smoke coming down the ceiling and touching me, very energetic on the come up. Am i the only one who finds it super strong?
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I find the stuff very strong too. Half a tab give me those effects you described but not quite as strong.

Never seen faces on anything but I'm glad you mentioned smoke coming from the ceiling. It's a strange visual I haven't been able to describe or seen any one else mention.
 
It was just a thought due to such vivid visuals but with a lessened energy and slightly shorter duration , the description sounds quite similar to what people also describe for the likes of Mgs and HBWR seeds . Although this could just be me thinking into it too much as I have personally found it to hit just as hard (if not harder at times) as LSD . No matter what whether this is active it's self (unlikely) , breaks down into LSD or again as you say unlikely but into something else, I still love this compound it reminds me of some awesome combination of shrooms and acid that has the chilled ness of shrooms but the trippiness of acid mentally and visual
 
Seph said:
I find it very strong man dw I find just more than a half tab has me tripping pretty strong forinstants that comes to mind was a time on half when a friend blew out smoke from a j it came out rainbow coloured . I think it's to do with the purity
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or the cannabis and 5ht2a agonist combo?
 
Seph said:
It was just a thought due to such vivid visuals but with a lessened energy and slightly shorter duration , the description sounds quite similar to what people also describe for the likes of Mgs and HBWR seeds . Although this could just be me thinking into it too much as I have personally found it to hit just as hard (if not harder at times) as LSD . No matter what whether this is active it's self (unlikely) , breaks down into LSD or again as you say unlikely but into something else, I still love this compound it reminds me of some awesome combination of shrooms and acid that has the chilled ness of shrooms but the trippiness of acid mentally and visual
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Only some have suggested a shorter duration - if they are correct and not just reacting to the fact LSD can have a variable duration then it can't be turned to LSD really - can't see any likeness to shrooms (luckily) but it does feel different and milder mannered as people keep pointing out so; LSA or anything like that not likely (not sure what you got from descriptions to suggest that one particularly but trip descriptions are very variable since it's so hard to put in words). I like some say it may be less visual on the whole. Your right to think some of all these descriptions may be suggestion but I'm not ruling out that it might be partly turned to LSD as well as having some effect of it own. It's hard to see how a difference could be explained otherwise even if it's considered unlikely 'scientifically', which amounts to an educated guess which could be proved wrong
 
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