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The Big and Dandy HBWR/MGS/LSA Thread (Archive start - 4-14-2008)

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I wonder if LSA extraction experimenters realize that they can make a huge pile of cash when they're succesful.
 
Does anyone here have any experiance combining LSA (HWBS) with LSD-25?

I find HBWS to be more emotionly stimulating and euphoric than LSD, although LSD has far more intence visuals and thought patterns. The two combined sounds like a good idea but I am scared of the nausia. Anyonehave anything to add?
 
I combined HBW and L a few times last year and overall never liked the combo as much as ingesting either substance alone. Together, they actually weren't more intense and if anything it was a milder experience. I felt like they smoothed each other out so much that the introspective insightful side of the trip was missing. However, the visuals of the combined trip were excellent as was the body buzz. It's just the psychedelic aspect was sorely lacking, whereas a high dose of L or HBW by itself can be very psychedelically satisfying.

I also used to be disappointed by combining L and Psilocybe. That combo had a similar effect to the L/HBW combo- great (and i do mean GREAT) visuals and body buzz but a boring, dull trip. I wonder if ingesting 2 substances with similar mechanisms of action causes them to antagonize each other. Maybe they compete for receptor sites or something.

So now I stick to using L and HBW alone, having learned my lesson. I wonder if I'd find combining HBW and Psilocybe also unsatisfying. And I realize the reason I found the aforementioned combos boring and unsatisfying may have been just because of my heavy psychological tolerance to Tryptamines at the time.

I did enjoy the time I combined HBW and 2CE. I also very much enjoyed combining L and 2CE on another occasion. So from now on I'm more inclined to combine a Tryptamine and Phenethylamine psychedelic than 2 Tryptamines.

Recently, I had the fortune of getting to try a combination of 25 HBW seeds (15seeds from one vendor and 10 from another) orally plus 2 good quality, clean MDxx tablets rectally. Now this combo I LOOOOOVED...talk about euphoria....oh my god, man, I was on cloud nine. You know what the HBW/E combo actually reminded me of a LOT- a really, really high dose 2CE trip.

None of you should rush out to combine MDxx's or any other strong stimulant with HBW though, as HBW causes a lot of vasoconstriction and a strong stimulant could dangerously increase the level of vasconstriction of your blood vessels. Knowing this I'd been careful to take a lot of L-Arginine and CoQ10 (both vasodilators) to open up my blood vessels more.

Combining Japanese Sweet Flag 5X extract (try 3-5 grams orally or sublingually) with HBW reminds me a bit of my HBW/E combo but on a milder scale. Sweet Flag 5X taken alone is relatively mild and subtle but it really seems magical if taken during a HBW trip. It adds a nice mellow yet stimulating rolling-esque component to the Woodrose trip.

I'll briefly list most of the substances I've combined at various times with HBW: L, MDxx, 2CE, Sweet Flag 5X extract, MJ, Kratom, Hydrocodone, DXM, Syrian Rue, Caffeine, Wellbutrin, DL-Phenylalanine, DMAE, SAM-e, Piracetam, L-Arginine, CoQ10, fish oil, Lecithin and beer.

The most intense potentiator of HBW I've found to be Syrian Rue. The best way to mellow HBW I've found to be Kratom. If I want to make HBW more stimulating and energetic I go with Sweet Flag, Caffeine, Wellbutrin, DLPA, SAM-e, DMAE or Piracetam. I consider using DLPA, SAM-e, DMAE and/or Piracetam far safer ways to energize a HBW trip than Caffeine or Wellbutrin (which could intensify the HBW's vasoconstriction).

I don't know whether I could recommend preloading on Rue before a HBW trip. The combo is extremely intense and euphoric but also feels a bit dirty and has a lot of body load. I'd take 2-5 (usually 3-4) grams of Rue orally an hour or 2 before ingesting my HBW seeds. I'd usually end up with a MUCH more visual, physically euphoric and disorienting HBW trip. There's much more of a weird otherwordly body stone (almost Salvia-esque at times) and much more lively visuals. Tactile sensations became EXTREMELY intense (just having my finger sucked by my girlfriend felt like a blowjob). Mentally I'd find myself in some really, really strange, bizarre headspaces.

Now the downside.....the fucking nausea and body load. Rue made the HBW body buzz much heavier and sloppier which gets annoying. I like my body to feel light and energetic enough that I can move around and the Rue/HBW combo often kept me sitting or laying down feeling as if I had a great weight on me. The nausea of the combo was fucking horrible on 2 different occasions. Just horrible, man. If you've ever experience HBW or Rue nausea alone imagine what it's like combined. Feels like you've got an alien in your stomach trying to fight it's way out... Last time I did HBW/Rue together even after vomiting I still couldn't calm my stomach down, it was in an uproar.

As far as combining DXM with HBW I prefer to wait till the HBW comedown before I dose on DXM. 300-600 mg of Dex can be quite nice on top of a fading HBW buzz. An hour later when the DXM kicks in suddenly I'm shot back up and tripping but in a different way than I was earlier on just HBW alone. Verrrry mellow, euphoric, giggly combo. Even dosing on DXM 24 hours after a HBW experience still causes a great synergy- it's as if robotripping the day after a HBW trip brings back remnants of that familiar HBW psychedelic euphoric from the night before.

I consider preloading on high doses of Piracetam for a few days as a pre-requisite for any of my HBW trips these days. I take an especially high dose (2-4 grams) of Piracetam a couple hours before my HBW trip. I find preloading on Piracetam to do wonders for boosting Tryptamine psychedelics (especially Ergolines). Piracetam makes Ergolines cleaner, more focused and more intense. I can only imagine what Deprenyl or Hydergine would feel like with HBW (drools)...

Lastly, in response to the guy who said folks could possibly make a lot of profits selling LSA extracts to friends- I disagree, man. I dunno how much experience you have with HBW/MG/Rivea, but I find a lot of people really don't enjoy the effects of these drugs- they get either a lot of nausea or a lot of muscle cramps or both. Then, there's other people that just straight up get overwhelmed and have bad trips.

Also, if you were selling an extract of the LSA's in the seeds to people they wouldn't get nearly as satisfying a psychedelic trip as if they'd ingested the seeds. I don't know if you know this or not but extracting the LSA's out of HBW/MG/Rivea and ingesting them produces a much milder, duller trip than if one ingested the seeds. Soaking the seeds in water or a solvent and performing an extraction isn't going to extract all the goodies out of the seeds- you will instead only be left with some of the alkaloids.

LSA extracts are far more sedating and boring effects wise than ingesting the actual seeds would be. The only way to truly get the FULL impact of HBW/MG/Rivea is swallowing the crushed seeds. Don't waste your time with silly extractions folks trust me.... (this is coming from a guy who let's just say has tripped on HBW a LOT in the last year and has his share of MG experiences).

In closing, HBW continues to be overall one of my all-time favorite psychedelics and often I find I get more out of trips on it than L or 2CE. I need to watch my tolerance though because sometimes I see HBW quickly losing its magic for me when I get in a pattern of using the seeds a few nights a month and get to the point that I need 25 high quality Hawaiian strain seeds to trip. I'd suggest not using HBW more than once a month, preferably once every few months. What I really miss is the Madagascar strain of HBW seeds...now THOSE were fun. It's a shame they're so much less common and more expensive than the more common Hawaiian strain... Oh and folks, never spend money on the Indian or Ghana strains of HBW because they fucking suck.
 
whatever

morninggloryseed said:
Do you live in Mexico? Or a Carribean island? Because unlike the heavenly blue morning glory (tlilitzin), ololiuqui is not an ornimental plant and is only native to places in Cental America. It used to be rather rare, until the rise of internet vendors who are able to obtain such exotic plants/seeds. Now they are not hard to get, but it is still an uncommon plant to most places in the world.

Either way, seeds begin to form after the flowers close. While the flower only stays open for a day, it takes a few weeks for the seeds to fully form and mature after the flowers close. The petals of the flower will fall off, and then the little ball left will swell with the seeds. If I recall, ololiuqui only has one seed per capsule. You will need a large patch for a good yield. The seeds are ready when the capsule is dry like paper and cracks when touched. You will know where the seeds are and when they are ready. If you don't yet see seeds, then the plant is not seeding yet. When it is, it isn't something you can miss. They are brown, round, capsules and every place a flower was, a capsule will form.

Ololiuqui is only half as potent as tlilitzin (heavenly blues) according to numerous analysis I've seen. A dose therefore would be between 100 and 600 seeds (as a tlilitzin dose is between 50 to 300 seeds) if the literature is true.

Then again, I read in classic literature that only a thimbleful of seeds is used for ololiuqui, and that is a lot less than 100 seeds. Probably only a couple dozen or so seeds would fit in a thimble. It may be that seeds from their native Mexico are much more potent than those bred for flowers, and ones commonly used by Westerners for tripping contain much less alkaloidal content. And those seeds that had analysis done were from flower-bred stock. Or perhaps the genetics of those in the areas where ololiuqui grows makes them very sensitive to LSAs.

Humphrey Osmond (who coined the word psychedelic) tried ololiuqui in the mid '50s and ate 100 when he tried it. He reported very positive effects, and from the sound of the report, I'd say that dose produced what is now called a "plus-two." I've had powerful heavenly blue seeds before where as few as 50 would produce a plus-two. That would correspond to ololiuqui being only half as potent as heavenly blue. But it still doesn't answer why I've read in a few places that only a few dozen or so ololiuqui seeds are used by shamans.

So I'd say start low and work your way up because the dosages for ololiuqui is unclear at the moment.

Is it worth is? Depends on what you want.
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morning glory seeds would more be between 300 to 700 and again it just depends on who you are it coul also be un hundred. Ololiuqui are more like 30 if you want a heavy trip, 15 to start. if you take 600 i'm not sure you would die, but you would probably be sick enough to end up in an hospital.check on google, iamashaman or erowid.com and you should find your answers..i hope you didn t take 600 already if you did goodbye. check out twice to be sure, five to be safe and remember that what trips me out could kill you and what trips you out could kill me we are all different and our bodies riact differently
 
^ololuiqui is not that strong. literature says .012 - .07% ergot alkaloids by dry weight.

but like morninggloryseed says, you don't really know, especially since the recorded chemical levels and corresponding ethnobotanical data from shamans are quite different in doses
 
Most sites seem to reccomend starting with 10 seeds and then proceeding, as needed, by an extra five seeds at a time. Whats the nausea like with these things?
 
I recently ate 150 ololiuqui seeds with a tablespoon of syrian rue seeds, crushed and swallowed. I felt nothing more than a mental looseness and slight color enhancement. Howeverm the seeds were reputed to be low potency. Just goes to show you how variable ololiuqui seeds are - most batches of seeds floating around at the moment need dosages of 100 - 300 seeds, it seems.
 
Yeah I hear there's a lot of unreliable batches of Rivea going around right now- that the potency between batches can vary tremendously. Now would this potency variation be more a result of some of these Rivea being old, too exposed to heat, light, air and moisture, or naturally having a lower amount of LSA's than other batches?

If your Rivea aren't doing the trick for you try preloading on a couple hundred milligrams of Moclobemide or a few grams of Piracetam. And smoking good nugg helps too of course.
 
I'm going to give piracetam a try, and moclobemide if I can find it easily. These were the Matthew's seeds (we were PMing @ edot about them). I did receive the HBW seeds you suggested, but I haven't had the time to trip longer than a few minutes over the past week. I'll probably be using piracetam w/ HBW and smoking DMT all throughout tomorrow night =D
 
If you're going to preload on Piracetam to maximize how much it potentiates your HBW make sure you've been consistently taking Piracetam every day for at least a few days in advance. I think it builds up in the system gradually and eventually has a stronger effect than if one was just taking one single high dose of Piracetam. I'd recommend you take 2-4 grams of Piracetam each day for at least a few days. Some people would say this is too much Piracetam but I think big attack doses are good the first few days to get your system used to it. The day of your HBW trip make sure you take the Piracetam BEFORE dosing on HBW not AFTER. I hear Piracetam doses if you're already tripping don't cause potentiation.

Moclobemide is widely available from online pharmacies, just ask your fellow Bluelighters where the best deals are. I hear 100-200 mg of Moclobemide before a trip is a high enough dose for MAO potentiation. An alternative way for MAO potentiation would be preloading on Deprenyl (also available online from Mexico or Europe, try Cyprenil from Mexico).

Preloading on Rue/Harmala will also potentiate your HBW but in a strange somewhat dirty way that I don't recommend. Rue adds an unwanted body load and nausea element. Rue can, however, make HBW a lot more visually, physically and mentally intense and longer lasting in effect. The cleanest way to ingest Rue is smoking it in resin form. If you want to do Rue orally take 3-4 grams an hour or 2 before your HBW.

Another way to potentiate HBW is preload for a few nights on very high doses of Melatonin (6-24 mg a night). I find this Melatonin preloading nights in advance makes my Tryptamine psychedelic experiences a lot more visual and long lasting. You won't find anyone else online who's familiar with using Melatonin preloading at night to potentiate a psychedelic taken the day after your preloading. Most folks assume I'm full of shit about Melatonin being a possible potentiator. I get the last laugh though and their losses :)

I'd imagine Hydergine might potentiate HBW too. I also find a high dose of SAM-e to add to the mental euphoria and energy of HBW too. SAM-e boosts the brain's serotonin and dopamine plenty. A high dose of Lecithin granules (5-10 grams) before or during a HBW trip might also synergize. High doses of Lecithin can help one meditations and possibly help them get more CEVs and OBEs while meditating.

Remember to preload on fresh ginger (taken by tea or orally) hours before your HBW to make your stomach stronger and better able to handle potential HBW nausea. And as I've said before eat very lightly the day of your HBW trip (mild foods like pudding, yogurt, etc). Preloading on L-Arginine might be a good idea too as it's a vasodilator and HBW may cause a lot of vasoconstriction for you. A good way to tell if HBW is giving you vasoconstriction and see whether it's making your muscles tense and sore (a sign of vasoconstriction). A hot bath can also help open up your blood vessels and decrease the vasoconstriction.

The 1st few hours after ingesting your HBW don't move around too much till the nausea passes and take some puffs of MJ if need be. Remember that the best way to ingest HBW and not get nausea is finely grinding the seeds (coffee grinder) and packing them in big capsules (just drink lots of fluid so you dont get the capsules stuck in your throat).

If you can hold down the HBW in your stomach for a few hours and still feel like vomiting go with it and let your body vomit (but vomit gradually not violently). I say try to not vomit till a few hrs into the trip because vomiting too soon might mean all the LSA's in the seeds havent absorbed yet so you might weaken and shorten da trip.

HBW may cause you a lot of sleepiness and lethargy. If this is the case try moving around and exercising. If this doesn't help you could always use energizing nootropics (Piracetam, Hydergine) or energizing herbs/supplements/vitamins (DMAE, Rhodiola, Yerba Mate, Japanese Sweet Flag 5X, Vitamin C, Vitamin B12).

If your HBW gets too intense for you and you want to calm down or sleep it off try one or more of the following: Kava, Phenibut, Taurine, Niacinamide, L-Theanine, Valerian, Pedicularis, Scutellaria, Bali Kratom, Wild Lettuce, Glaucine, Papaver somniferum pods, Opiates/Opioids. Also, get in the right mindset and setting with positive music and tripsitters around and lie down, close your eyes, clear your mind and breath slow, deep breaths.

Well, this is all the advice I have for you now off the top of my head. Good luck on your HBW trip and on anyone else's, my psychonaut brutha.

And as I've stated before doing a moderate dose of DXM (300-600 mg or more) the day after a HBW trip will somewhat bring back the magical effects of the HBW, as will some good Sinsemilla.

Oh, and never buy HBW from Matthew- I've tried his seeds and they're easily the worst quality ever. I literally ate up to 40 at once with no discernable effect. Once you feel really comfortable with the effects of HBW and want to take it to the NEXT LEVEL try ordering Madgascar HBW...now THOSE are fucking intense LOL...
 
I'm considering trying morning glory tonight. I went to the garden store after school but I wasn't sure which strain to buy, so I bought 3 different varieties. One of them are the heavenly blues which I now know are considered to be the best. The others are crimson rambler and a package of mixed. Do the crimson rambler seeds also work?
 
HBWR help.

I recently ordered and received 50 count HBWR seeds. My plan was to dehusk, powder, and gelcap about 5 seeds worth for my first trip. However, I did not expect these seeds to be so hard/small. I found it very difficult to break one open with scissors, and can't imagine how one goes about getting rid of the shell or hairy outside parts.

Can anyone detail some techniques to isolate the LSA containing part of the seeds? and how long can I expect the onset with the gelcap method? Thanks.
 
Check the package closely to see if it says the MG's are treated with any toxins. Some brands coat their seeds with poisons. If you swallow poisoned seeds you might get horribly nauseous and feverish for hrs. If you find out your seeds are treated, wash them with some type of cleaning fluid thoroughly.

If your seeds aren't treated your best way to ingest them would be grind them to a fine, fine powder then either put them in capsules and swallow them or mix them with a beverage and chug it or sip it.

Doing a solvent or water extraction of MG won't give you a stronger trip and doesnt ensure you dont get nausea. If you want to absorb all the LSA's you need to actually swallow the ground seeds. The finer theyre ground the better your body will absorb tha LSA's.

You prob. won't get as much nausea and muscle cramps with your MG as u would with HBW. I think MG causes less vasoconstriction. If you eat poisoned MG you might be in for a real rough time though. I recommend Burpee brand of MG sold at Wal-Mart.

And yes, Heavenly Blue has the highest concentration of LSA's. I do think combining a few strains of MG can be fun. I think different varieties have different alkaloid profiles so they might synergize. As I recall there's Wedding Bells, Pearly Gates, Flying Saucers and Blue Star.

I'd recommend you eat 10-15 grams. 15-20 grams if you're a psychonaut veteran.

In the words of the old SNES game Smash TV- "GOOD LUCK YOU'LLLLL NEED ITTTT!"
 
rodox said:
I recently ordered and received 50 count HBWR seeds. My plan was to dehusk, powder, and gelcap about 5 seeds worth for my first trip. However, I did not expect these seeds to be so hard/small. I found it very difficult to break one open with scissors, and can't imagine how one goes about getting rid of the shell or hairy outside parts.

Can anyone detail some techniques to isolate the LSA containing part of the seeds? and how long can I expect the onset with the gelcap method? Thanks.
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--> Big & Dandy Thread
 
Anybody else think that LSA just plain ROCKS!?

lsaproofzq5.jpg

found this photo of a chronic baby woodrose muncher!

Seriously, such a pleasant seed! down a dozen in the eve, wake up next morning with a grin on your face and flowers waving around on the wall... tear into an orange and jam out with django!

djangoqq5.jpg


woo babe that jazz is hot!
 
Sentiment appreciated, but probably journal material :)
 
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