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The Big and Dandy HBWR/MGS/LSA Thread (Archive start - 4-14-2008)

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Some people might disagree with me but I say don't waste your time with any of the extraction techniques for Morning Glory/HBW circulating online. The resulting extract isn't going to be as powerful or as interesting as the seeds themselves would be. And why is this?

Well if you do an extraction you are only going to end up with some of the seeds' alkaloids as all of them aren't soluble. See, Morning glory/HBW seeds have a bunch of different alkaloids in them (called as a group "LSA's" or "Lysergamides") and the trip comes from the synergy between them.

As I recall most the extraction recipes online are trying to get pure Ergine (also known as "LSA") from the seeds. Pure Ergine aint no fun according to the master, Shulgin. He describes it as a bland sedative, not a psychedelic. Is the reason you want to an extraction to minimize the nausea?

If this is the case let me tell you something- not all MG/HBW seeds even cause nausea, only some types. Also if you grind the seeds finely, put them in capsules, and swallow them on a relatively empty stomach you prob. won't get much, if any nausea.

Don't believe me if you want and listen to all these inexperienced MG/HBW users inisting that extractions are the only way to go. But know I've tried HBW over 20 times and MG 5 or 6 so I think I know what I'm talking about from experience.

If you insist on doing an extraction try the cold water method. This prob. extracts more LSA's than using a solvent.
 
Merged in a question about LSA extraction.

I agree with The Wizard. Extractions will remove a lot of the psychactive components, for some reason. "LSA" should actually be called "LSAs", because it's not just one chemical, it's a number of them combined together.

If you're concerned about bodyload, just get some HBWR seeds, and chew them and hold them in your mouth and swish around for as long as possible to take them sublingually. Then spit it all out. This will create a bodyload-free experience that is stronger than an extraction, but still not quite as strong as just eating them. Eating them will create some body load, but it fades after a little while and it will for sure create the strongest and most psychedelic experience.
 
Nice to see someone who actually knows what they're talking about in the comment above me. I've never tried holding the seeds in my mouth for sublingual absorption because of the strange, icky taste. How did you adjust to that?

Some of the Erowid reports on sublingual use of HBW talk about also having orange juice or something else acidic in their mouth. Does this help absorption or they just do this for taste?

You have to have the seeds in your mouth for what, 20-30 minutes? I hear this sublingual method is weaker than oral and that one needs to use almost twice as many seeds. Is this true? How much quicker do the effects kick in sublingually? Orally it usually takes me a good 2-3 hrs to feel HBW and 4 before I feel it strongly. Is the sublingual trip also shorter?

For those fearing nausea from oral HBW know that if you throw up the nausea will prob. quickly go away and you'll be left with a smooth trip. Just make sure you wait a few hours to throw up till the seeds have totally absorbed. Also MJ does wonders for the nausea.

Has anyone tried preloading on an MAOI like Syrian Rue a couple hours before taking HBW/MG? It def. makes for a more intense, longer lasting trip though more nausea and body load too. I wish I had some Syrian Rue resin to smoke during the peak of the trip... I highly recommend taking a low to moderate dose of DXM on the comedown from HBW. Makes for a very interesting synergy.

I myself plan to ingest 15 HBW seeds ground up and packed in capsules tom. evening. I'll report back to you guys on how it turns out. I'll be trying a brand new batch of seeds I received the other day.
 
I wouldn't eat 15 seeds from a new batch. Although i've never had seeds so potent that 4-5 were the dose, it is possible.

You may be sent on one hell of a trip. %)
 
I WISH eating 15 seeds could be "too potent" and send me on "one hell of a trip." I have a permanent heavy tolerance to the effects of HBW that comes from having done it around 20+ times in the last year at increasing doses (up to 30 seeds). It never has approached feeling too intense or overwhelming at all. HBW feels quite peaceful and controllable to me. I know I should prob. abstain from HBW for a number of months to lower my tolerance but don't feel like waiting that long.

So I've been dosing up on Piracetam the last few days and will take a big ass dose (5 or 10 grams) before swallowing my HBW tomorrow and hopefully that'll potentiate it.

I also have quite a supply of relaxing sedative like drugs that can ease a trip if need be. I have on hand Taurine, Niacinamide, Valerian and beer. Even just Taurine and Niacinamide at high enough doses can do wonders to slow down a speedy trip. High dose Niacinamide is effective enough that doctors used to give it to schizophrenics to calm them down.
 
^^ You also might not be getting the best seeds. Are you getting the Hawaiin strain for a reputable vendor? The India and some other strains are weak and undesirable compared to the Hawaiin.
 
A lot of people have reported that extractions of any kind just don't get the full experience. I did a good extraction and had v ery underwhelming, incomplete results. Although I have never used tartaric acid as you suggest.

My favorite method is sublingual absorbtion of HBWR seeds. It results (for me) in a bodyload-free, full experience, and a bit faster than eating them.
 
I assume current research doesn't begin to pinpoint what liquids allll the Lysergamides are soluble in. Sure some might be very soluble in water or a solvent but do we reallly know all are? There's a lot of different Lysergamides in Woodrose/Morning Glory and very little studies have been done on focusing on the impact of each. People like Hoffman seemed to quickly dismiss Lysergamides like Ergoline (aka LSA) as boring sedatives. Shame he didn't realize some of the other alkaloids in the seeds are MUCH more interesting.

The fact some batches of Woodrose I have are sedating, some are stoning, some are trippy and some are energetic goes to show just how different the alkaloid profile of different batches of seeds can. And yes, I'm pretty sure most the Woodrose seeds I've ingested were from very reputable suppliers. I'd research their track records thoroughly beforehand and compared the quality of their seeds to other vendors. I've found in the last year 4 reallllly solid Woodrose sellers. 3 offer Hawaiian seeds, one offers Madagascar. I wish the Madagascar strain was more widely strained, as it was EXCELLENT the few times I used it. And yes I've heard of how weak India and Ghana's seeds can be and I've shied from those.
 
Can anyone name all the known alkaloids in HBW seeds?

We know of course that LSA (also known as Ergine) is one of the alkaloids and offhand the others I recall are Isoergine, Ergonovine and Methylergonovine..

I actually collected some information I found on websites about the effects of each of these alkaloids if taken in their pure form.

Here's my info:

Ergine (aka LSA)-
1.) A potency 1/10 to 1/30th that of LDS. It has some similarities in effect to LSD, but is generally considered much less stimulating and can be sedating.
2.) Hofmann tried an I.M. injection of 500 micrograms of LSA and found the effects medium-strong. Hofmann later reports that the active oral dose of LSA at "2 to 5 milligrams".
3.) An I.M. administration of a 500 microgram dose led to a tired, dream state with an inability to maintain clear thoughts. After a short period of sleep, the effects were gone and normal baseline was recovered within 5 hours."

Isoergine-
No entheogenic effect was noticed by Hofmann after taking 2 milligrams of isoergine, although sedative symptoms similar to LSA inebriation were prominent. Hofmann's description of perceiving the 'unreality and complete meaninglessness of the outside world' after taking 2 millgrams of isoergine (Hofmann 1963), however, sounds like the paradoxical depressant effect experienced commonly with the threshold doses of psilocybin and other entheogens and it is possible that isoergine is entheogenic at higher doses."

Ergonovine-
Has LSD-like action at levels of 2-10 milligrams. Clinical dosages are ten times lower.

Methylergonovine- Has LSD-like actions at doses above 2 milligrams. Clinical dosages are ten times lower.
 
I was lookin up chemical constituents of HBWR when I came across the following active species:

Argyreia acuta, A. barnesii, A. cuneata, A. hainanensis, A. luzonesis, A. mollis, A. nervosa, A. obtusiflora, A. philippinensis, A. speciosa, A. splendens, and A. wallichi.

So its not just A. nervosa.

Also, the related vine Stictocardia tiliafolia (syn. Stictocardia tiliifolia?) also contains large quantities of ergot alkaloids.
 
Hmmm wonder why I've never heard of any of these other Argyreia species u speak of (A. acuta, A. barnesii, A. cuneata, A. hainanensis, A. luzonesis, A. mollis, A. nervosa, A. obtusiflora, A. philippinensis, A. speciosa, A. splendens, and A. wallichi). You heard only that they contain Lysergamides or also heard confirmation that they're been tested and shown to be psychoactive?

Don't think I've ever heard of Stictocardia tiliafolia either. Unless this is the proper name for Sleepy Grass. Ever heard of that stuff? I find so few references online to Sleepy Grass containing LSA's and no one seems to have tried it themself so I assume it has an undesireable alkaloid profile.
 
I thought I recalled reading one of the shamans' preparation methods for Rivea was a water extraction. But maybe this could have been for Morning Glory, instead as I can't remember. Just grind your Rivea up as finely as possible (coffee grinder works like a charm) then soak the seed powder in purified water (tap water can damage the LSA's in the seeds) in a sealed container in the fridge for a few days. Then, strain out the seeds and drink your Rivea water, possibly mixing it with some flavoring to help the taste (for some reason people used to often recommend Koolaid).

Alternatively, you just could pack the seed powder in capsules to swallow. I'd assume this would get more LSA's in your body than consuming a water extract.
 
Madagascar Woodrose Seeds

Hey everyone.

So I saw these on a website and it said that a typical dosage for an LSA trip would be 3-6 seeds. That's insane! Does anyone have any previous experience with this type of seed for LSA?
 
Dunno. I just typed in madagascar woodrose in google and some sources selling it wrote "These seeds have been used ethnobotanically in the Pacific Islands by certain high priests to induce communication with the spiritual world."

Im pretty sure that is not true at all. There has been no known use of A. nervosa as a ritual plant like the morning glory species.
 
And that is not really insane.

I can achieve a good strong trip on 5 HBWS. One on its own will still give me a massive boost in energy and add a slight strange feel to mundane things.
 
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