The Big and Dandy HBWR/MGS/LSA Thread (Archive start - 4-14-2008)
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I did 17 seeds for my first (and so far only) time with HBWR - and oh.my.lord, that was one hell of a ride. Started to feel the affects almost instantly, initially I thought it was just placebo then my friend asked if I was feeling things already also.
The next 2 hours flew by in a haze of fighting off nausea as metal-flecks started to streak across my visions and my shadows started to morph into cartoons.
I had some control over the OEV/CEVs - I could think "I want to see a monkey", and the pattern on my couch would start to look like a bunch of dancing monkeys.
After around 3 hours, I gave into the nausea, and started to have some of the most intense and painful vomiting I've ever had period. Felt cleansing at the same time, but god was it rough.
Audio distortions got so bad at one point that I could not understand anything that was said to me. CEVs that reminded me of a cross between LSD and Mushrooms, OEVs that had a nature of their own. Music sounded stellar and was like taking a trip into the back of my mind.
Ended up adding some mushrooms to the mix later in the night, I ate the seeds at around 8-9pm, and was not 100% base-line at 5pm the next day, in which I added some more things to the mix to toss it off as an amusing weekend.
All around, a very enjoyable and worthwhile trip - if slightly difficult at times. There were periods of the night where my body would twitch uncontrollably - if someone had walked in on me, they probably would of thought I was having a seizure.
The next 2 hours flew by in a haze of fighting off nausea as metal-flecks started to streak across my visions and my shadows started to morph into cartoons.
I had some control over the OEV/CEVs - I could think "I want to see a monkey", and the pattern on my couch would start to look like a bunch of dancing monkeys.
After around 3 hours, I gave into the nausea, and started to have some of the most intense and painful vomiting I've ever had period. Felt cleansing at the same time, but god was it rough.
Audio distortions got so bad at one point that I could not understand anything that was said to me. CEVs that reminded me of a cross between LSD and Mushrooms, OEVs that had a nature of their own. Music sounded stellar and was like taking a trip into the back of my mind.
Ended up adding some mushrooms to the mix later in the night, I ate the seeds at around 8-9pm, and was not 100% base-line at 5pm the next day, in which I added some more things to the mix to toss it off as an amusing weekend.
All around, a very enjoyable and worthwhile trip - if slightly difficult at times. There were periods of the night where my body would twitch uncontrollably - if someone had walked in on me, they probably would of thought I was having a seizure.
egor
Bluelighter
^^17 seeds is WAY too high for an initial dose. Try 8-10 next time and you should have a better time.
MrNice
Bluelighter
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- Jul 26, 2006
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If your using top quality seeds you shouldnt need to go above 10 seeds for oev's and impressive cev's. Quality varies a lot, it's worthwhile shopping around to find a high quality supply and sticking with them. Ive had 2 seeds from one supplier that gave me a stronger experience than 10 from a different source
goldomega9
Bluelighter
Ive never done HBWR seeds but i did morning glory. I ground up and swallowed 300 heavenly blues. They never got me sick but i did have pretty bad leg cramps at first. I just had a good happy buzz for the first 4 hours then i suddenly started tripping really hard. Definitely a powrful mind trip- there wernt many visuals. Ive taken shrooms and lsd but MG gave me a much harder trip. I went home and looked in the mirror and my pupils were really dilated and i noticed that i was starting to actually get good visuals. My face was melting when i looked in the mirror and when i tried reading i couldnt bc the words were moving around like waves. The peak only lasted an hour which was weird, and after the peak i was pretty much sober- just a little freaked out by the intensity. Overall, these things are just as powerful as any other psychedelic if u take enough- they are definitely underrated IMO.
Don Luigi
Bluelight Crew
I remember everytime I did MGs with my mate we would take full advantage of the mental aspect and would end up doing a roleplay for the whole trip, it was madness lol I've never had OEV's with the lights on with MGs, plenty of CEV's and darkness just plays tricks on me.
IGNVS
Bluelighter
ive only had one or two experiences with morning glories.
one time i did an isopropyl alcohol extract and the resulting amber goo smelt like honey, and tasted pritty good actualy, there wasnt enough for a trip though. anyone ever do something like that and come up with good tasting morning glory goo?
one time i did an isopropyl alcohol extract and the resulting amber goo smelt like honey, and tasted pritty good actualy, there wasnt enough for a trip though. anyone ever do something like that and come up with good tasting morning glory goo?
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
I do have good goo. Baby batter.
goldomega9
Bluelighter
The CEV's i got from morning glories scared the crap out of me. They were just way too bizarre and i dont understand how my mind could come up with such strange stuff. I usually enjoy CEVs from any psychedelic drugs i take but these visuals just seemed foreign to me and shutting my eyes overwhelmed me so much that i would almost get sick. Ayone else ever get something like this from morning glories?
ungelesene_bettlek
Bluelighter
it says everywhere that the coating of the seed is poisonous. is that true? which toxic substance is in there? is the outher furry coat ment, or the hard brown shell?
egor
Bluelighter
I have never seen a legitimate reference to the nausea causing agents being in the seed-coat.
If anyone knows of one please post the info so we can settle this once and for all.
If anyone knows of one please post the info so we can settle this once and for all.
tregar
Bluelighter
I've been researching this topic for over a year now and I believe that morninggloryseed is one of the most knowledgeable people there is on this subject along with my friend xxxxx (used the seeds for years to great effect). Alfred here at the forum has done some excellent studies on this topic.
And yes, MG seeds appear to be more visual than HBWR.
A year ago I think, morningglory brought up the topic of tartaric acid added to water as a hypothetical method of extraction--it might just be possible to get more of the alkaloids out this way.
D-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide is a fascinating compound found in the seeds and is a labile adduct of acetaldehyde and LSA. I've wondered if a shot of sherry or sweet wine (contains the most acetaldehyde (300mg per liter) of all the wines & alcohols added to the tartaric water extract AFTER the extraction...and left to spin on a portable magnetic stirrer in the fridge for about an hour wouldn't help in re-creating some of the lost d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (a condensation product of acetaldehyde and LSA in the seeds) that is quickly hydrolyzed back to LSA during a typical extraction.
I've had great success using ph=3.0 to ph=4.0 water to prepare ayahuasca from psychotria and caapi as well, but that is a whole nother subject.
I hypothetically tried it and it worked very well.
1 gram of seeds (30mL of the 8 oz 8 gram extract) provided an excellent experience with enhanced music perception, insights, mild euphoria, patience. I've hypothetically taken acid over 200 times back in the mid-90's when it was around--no longer is in my part of the world. And this low dose experience was tops in my book--it was an experience of beauty and enhanced perceptions.
All of my previous cold water extractions not only did not work but they did not glow bright blue under blacklight (glowed yellow/green or not at all). The tartaric 1 hour soak in the fridge worked on the other hand.
For only 1 gram of seed to work better than the 8 to 12 grams of seed extractions I've hypothetically done in the past is quite a feat. In the past, no tartaric acid was used and also the soak was too short (30 minutes). I also did not agitate the tea-bag enough in the past.
And by the way, the method with reagent lab grade petroleum ether and latter everclear soak of the dried seed mush (the faq over at erowid) just gave me hypothetical sedation and ended up putting me to sleep with 12 grams of seeds.
Tartaric acid can be found on ebay or wine brewing sights...it has a ph of 1.0, so don't use too much of it--just a tiny dash (50 to 60 mg) in 16oz of spring water will lower the ph to 3.5. I checked it three times with two different calibrated ph meters and with ph paper.
You must have a scale that is accurate to within 10mg to be able to measure out 50 to 60mg or so of tartaric acid in powder form. Don't try and eyeball this--you don't want to be drinking water that is the acidity of battery acid (1.0).
Also, don't use tap water--not only does it have chlorine which destroys LSA & LSD on contact, but it will not achieve the same low 3.5 ph with 50 to 60mg of tartaric acid.
Hypothetical method used:
1) Hammer then grind 8 grams of seeds to a fine powder in low-light conditions (candle, or 40 watt red light pointed against a wall).
2) Put seed powder into an empty family sized tea bag.
3) Add 50mg of 99% DL racemic tartaric acid (it is a very fine white powder) to 16oz (.5 liter) of spring water. Measure the pH , it should be around 3.5. Buy some pH paper for a few bucks. Tartaric acid is pH = 1.0 so don't use very much of it...this is much less...yes I said 50mg only...this is a TINY amount...it is much safer to use 2 teaspoons of lemon juice instead added to 16oz of water...both will get you to 3.5 pH in the water. DL racemic tartaric acid will not change the polarization of the ergolines. I used the spring water that comes in those individual 6,12, or larger drinking packs for biking, walking, on the go, etc.
So either: 2 teaspoons of fresh squeezed lemon juice (citrate) or only 50mg of tartaric acid. Citrate or tartrate doesn't matter. Both amounts will give you ph=3.5 in 16 oz of spring water.
Orange juice has a pH of 4.0....coca cola has a pH of 2.5....the extraction here with 2 teaspoons of lemon juice or 50mg of tartaric acid (looks like baby powder) has a pH of 3.5.
4) Staple the tea bag shut then Dunk it in 16 to 20 oz of ice cold spring water (a mason jar is perfect).
5) Screw the mason jar shut then put it in the fridge to soak for 1 hour.
6) Every 10 minutes shake the jar really hard then swirl it, then put it back in the fridge.
7) After 1 hour take the jar out of fridge and remove the tea bag--throw it away (it contains oily, stringy non-polar crap). Split the bag open if you want to observe that the oily stringy material stayed on the inside of the bag--then dispose of it.
8. Take the solution and blend it up in a blender for a few minutes.
9) OPTIONAL: vacuum filter the solution through a funnel with cotton balls (may not be necessary at all)
10) Draw up 10 mL in a long pipette and put it front of a four foot long blacklight. Observe the glow color.
11) Drop a few drops from the pipette onto dry white cotton. Observe the glow color.
12) The liquid should fluoresce bright bluish/white.
13) If the liquid glows yellowish/green or not at all there could be contaminants in the water (non-polars) or you might have inactive or weak seeds.
14) Keep the jar in the fridge and out of light when not in use. Do not expose the entire jar to the blacklight--UV light, bright light, heat, oxygen & chlorine decomposes ergolines. However, now that they are tartaric or citrate (lemon juice) salted slightly, they may not decompose as fast.
Post #37 shows a pic of the crystal clear water extraction and a deep layer of white polar active material that lines the bottom--notice that there is no discoloration (nausea causing non-polars) in the water. I siphoned off 30mL from the top (about 1 gram worth) pic #2 shows the bright blue glow under blacklight.
http://forums.mycotopia.net/showthread.php?t=14769
And yes, MG seeds appear to be more visual than HBWR.
A year ago I think, morningglory brought up the topic of tartaric acid added to water as a hypothetical method of extraction--it might just be possible to get more of the alkaloids out this way.
D-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide is a fascinating compound found in the seeds and is a labile adduct of acetaldehyde and LSA. I've wondered if a shot of sherry or sweet wine (contains the most acetaldehyde (300mg per liter) of all the wines & alcohols added to the tartaric water extract AFTER the extraction...and left to spin on a portable magnetic stirrer in the fridge for about an hour wouldn't help in re-creating some of the lost d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (a condensation product of acetaldehyde and LSA in the seeds) that is quickly hydrolyzed back to LSA during a typical extraction.
I've had great success using ph=3.0 to ph=4.0 water to prepare ayahuasca from psychotria and caapi as well, but that is a whole nother subject.
I hypothetically tried it and it worked very well.
1 gram of seeds (30mL of the 8 oz 8 gram extract) provided an excellent experience with enhanced music perception, insights, mild euphoria, patience. I've hypothetically taken acid over 200 times back in the mid-90's when it was around--no longer is in my part of the world. And this low dose experience was tops in my book--it was an experience of beauty and enhanced perceptions.
All of my previous cold water extractions not only did not work but they did not glow bright blue under blacklight (glowed yellow/green or not at all). The tartaric 1 hour soak in the fridge worked on the other hand.
For only 1 gram of seed to work better than the 8 to 12 grams of seed extractions I've hypothetically done in the past is quite a feat. In the past, no tartaric acid was used and also the soak was too short (30 minutes). I also did not agitate the tea-bag enough in the past.
And by the way, the method with reagent lab grade petroleum ether and latter everclear soak of the dried seed mush (the faq over at erowid) just gave me hypothetical sedation and ended up putting me to sleep with 12 grams of seeds.
Tartaric acid can be found on ebay or wine brewing sights...it has a ph of 1.0, so don't use too much of it--just a tiny dash (50 to 60 mg) in 16oz of spring water will lower the ph to 3.5. I checked it three times with two different calibrated ph meters and with ph paper.
You must have a scale that is accurate to within 10mg to be able to measure out 50 to 60mg or so of tartaric acid in powder form. Don't try and eyeball this--you don't want to be drinking water that is the acidity of battery acid (1.0).
Also, don't use tap water--not only does it have chlorine which destroys LSA & LSD on contact, but it will not achieve the same low 3.5 ph with 50 to 60mg of tartaric acid.
Hypothetical method used:
1) Hammer then grind 8 grams of seeds to a fine powder in low-light conditions (candle, or 40 watt red light pointed against a wall).
2) Put seed powder into an empty family sized tea bag.
3) Add 50mg of 99% DL racemic tartaric acid (it is a very fine white powder) to 16oz (.5 liter) of spring water. Measure the pH , it should be around 3.5. Buy some pH paper for a few bucks. Tartaric acid is pH = 1.0 so don't use very much of it...this is much less...yes I said 50mg only...this is a TINY amount...it is much safer to use 2 teaspoons of lemon juice instead added to 16oz of water...both will get you to 3.5 pH in the water. DL racemic tartaric acid will not change the polarization of the ergolines. I used the spring water that comes in those individual 6,12, or larger drinking packs for biking, walking, on the go, etc.
So either: 2 teaspoons of fresh squeezed lemon juice (citrate) or only 50mg of tartaric acid. Citrate or tartrate doesn't matter. Both amounts will give you ph=3.5 in 16 oz of spring water.
Orange juice has a pH of 4.0....coca cola has a pH of 2.5....the extraction here with 2 teaspoons of lemon juice or 50mg of tartaric acid (looks like baby powder) has a pH of 3.5.
4) Staple the tea bag shut then Dunk it in 16 to 20 oz of ice cold spring water (a mason jar is perfect).
5) Screw the mason jar shut then put it in the fridge to soak for 1 hour.
6) Every 10 minutes shake the jar really hard then swirl it, then put it back in the fridge.
7) After 1 hour take the jar out of fridge and remove the tea bag--throw it away (it contains oily, stringy non-polar crap). Split the bag open if you want to observe that the oily stringy material stayed on the inside of the bag--then dispose of it.
8. Take the solution and blend it up in a blender for a few minutes.
9) OPTIONAL: vacuum filter the solution through a funnel with cotton balls (may not be necessary at all)
10) Draw up 10 mL in a long pipette and put it front of a four foot long blacklight. Observe the glow color.
11) Drop a few drops from the pipette onto dry white cotton. Observe the glow color.
12) The liquid should fluoresce bright bluish/white.
13) If the liquid glows yellowish/green or not at all there could be contaminants in the water (non-polars) or you might have inactive or weak seeds.
14) Keep the jar in the fridge and out of light when not in use. Do not expose the entire jar to the blacklight--UV light, bright light, heat, oxygen & chlorine decomposes ergolines. However, now that they are tartaric or citrate (lemon juice) salted slightly, they may not decompose as fast.
Post #37 shows a pic of the crystal clear water extraction and a deep layer of white polar active material that lines the bottom--notice that there is no discoloration (nausea causing non-polars) in the water. I siphoned off 30mL from the top (about 1 gram worth) pic #2 shows the bright blue glow under blacklight.
http://forums.mycotopia.net/showthread.php?t=14769
Last edited:
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
FYI everyone - I'm in the process of upgrading the Big and Dandy threads by adding a "External Links" section to the first post in each. This section cointains links to important external (not in Bluelight) information about the substance in question. If anyone has any ideas for new links that I haven't put in, please let me know and I'd be glad to add them.
So far the MGS/HBWR/LSA, Salvia, mushrooms, DXM and 2C-B threads have had this added.
So far the MGS/HBWR/LSA, Salvia, mushrooms, DXM and 2C-B threads have had this added.
Thug Love
Bluelighter
are there any stores that have a shitload of them for cheap? at the store theyre like fucking 3 dollars a pack. and each pack only has like a gram.
delta_9
Bluelighter
^I doubt it. There probably are stores like that somewhere, but i sure as hell couldn't find 1 in my city. Your best bet is to buy them online.
eefanass
Bluelighter
im a little confused here.
people above are stating they trip off 10 seeds??
erowid expresses like 300 for a good trip. im suspecting the diffrences is between the HBWR and morning glory seeds.
i saw morning glory at walgreens, would those work? and if they do how much do i need to have a good trip off of?
people above are stating they trip off 10 seeds??
erowid expresses like 300 for a good trip. im suspecting the diffrences is between the HBWR and morning glory seeds.
i saw morning glory at walgreens, would those work? and if they do how much do i need to have a good trip off of?
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
eefanass said:
All of the seeds are in the morning glory family. Most of them are fairly weak (including the ones used in Mexico as a divinitory agent) require at least 100 seeds for a trip. One species however (the baby woodrose) is one of the strongest psychedelic plants there is....a half gram of the ground seeds (4 or 5) is enough for full effects.
qwe
Bluelight Crew
me and many of my friends went up to and over 400 seeds with MGS many times without trippage (online, organic seeds)
then one time i did it with someone who got a bad trip, which gave me a rough ride, and now 3 years later trees are still cartoons. however im just starting to get back into psychedelics and i think ill go for HBWS this time
then one time i did it with someone who got a bad trip, which gave me a rough ride, and now 3 years later trees are still cartoons. however im just starting to get back into psychedelics and i think ill go for HBWS this time
qwe
Bluelight Crew
is there anything you can do in case you get leg pain? it's vasoconstriction, right? would a sedative (benzo) help?
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