The Big and Dandy DMT Thread

[fastandbulbous]

I've mentioned this to zophen and I think the fact that you opt for a couple of hundred mg of DMT might have a bit of an influence! I only want about 60mg as DMT does frighten me a little (that's why I needed convincing rather than just saying 'yes' automatically).

 

[B9]

^Bah 60mgs , no ! Come on man !

 

[WaseFraKa]

Not sure whether it's because freebase DMT is so alkaline it irritates your stomach lining unless you dilute it with a little food and cola.

BUT..eating and drinking does seem to dilute the effects slightly. So, try both ways and see which you prefer. Although I normally hate vomiting it's not so bad when you're on DMT for some reason.

putting freebase in cocacola which has a ph of 2.? or 3.? should convert the base into hcl...

by reading you poor babies too afraid to upset your stomach, you make me laugh. the purge of dmt is what it is about. if you're afraid of it don't do it. if you want a pleasant feeling smoke some weed, but not oral dmt!
I understand one doesn't want to feel nauseous, but come on!

 

[Ismene]

putting freebase in cocacola which has a ph of 2.? or 3.? should convert the base into hcl...


But putting it into your stomach that contains hydrochloric acid should convert it to hcl anyway.

the purge of dmt is what it is about

I'm not so sure. I think the purge is sometimes valuable, but most of the time it just gets in the way of a good trip.

 

[Xorkoth]

the purge of dmt is what it is about

I don't profess to know, since I've not yet taken ayahuasca, but consider that the traditional view that the purge is necessary could simply have come about because the tribal people who developed that idea were only able to consume the whole plants, as they didn't know about the compounds locked within. Since that's the only way they were ever able to experience DMT, it would make sense that their view of the experience would have grown to include the purge.

I mean, it makes sense. You feel nauseous, and then you puke, and you feel much better! Who's to say that if you never felt bad in the first place, you'd have a less profound or healing trip?

 

[Delsyd]

Although im all for having a comfortable trip IME the trips that left the most long lasting impression upon me have been the ones that werent so comfortable.

Thus i have decided to take ayahuasca in its traditional form and in its traditional setting.
I feel that i will learn more from the experience if i did it the right way as opposed to just dropping it at home and having another purely hedonistic experience.

I highly suggest some of you look into one of those south amercan excursions where you take huasca with a shaman.
This was recomended to me by (of all people) my drug abuse councelor (he is an old time head. Took acid with psychiatrists way back when and has met shulgin a number of times).

just my 0.02

 

[Xorkoth]

^^ Now that I would love to do.

 

[Ismene]

Why would you want to take ayahuasca with a bunch of strangers who are only in it for the money? I can't think of anything worse. If they were caring people who were doing it out of the kindness of their hearts then maybe I'd be interested but not these fuckers charging a fortune for poorly prepared ayahuasca. They must be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[WaseFraKa]

the nausea is connected to dmt not ayahuasca (the wine)....though I have never taken dmt in it's pure form and can't attest that personally. Probably I never will, maybe once with caapi.

 

[fastandbulbous]

putting freebase in cocacola which has a ph of 2.? or 3.? should convert the base into hcl...

by reading you poor babies too afraid to upset your stomach, you make me laugh. the purge of dmt is what it is about. if you're afraid of it don't do it. if you want a pleasant feeling smoke some weed, but not oral dmt!
I understand one doesn't want to feel nauseous, but come on!

When you've gone through as many courses of proton punp inhibitors as I have, then theres a bloody good reason for not wanting to get stomach acid into my oesophegeus...(this macho bullshit about it's good to puke almost makes me laugh) the nausa is due to the harmine/harmaline not the DMT otherwise oral DPT at psychedelic doses would be expected to cause severe vomiting (harmala alkaloids cause dopamine increase in the CTZ, leading to the big spit)

And putting DMT into coca-cola produces the phosphate salt, not the hydrochloride

 

[fastandbulbous]

Why would you want to take ayahuasca with a bunch of strangers who are only in it for the money? I can't think of anything worse. If they were caring people who were doing it out of the kindness of their hearts then maybe I'd be interested but not these fuckers charging a fortune for poorly prepared ayahuasca. They must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Too bloody true. If I'm going for having my soul ripped out & dry cleaned, I want to be in the company of people I know and trust...

 

[Delsyd]

Why would you want to take ayahuasca with a bunch of strangers who are only in it for the money? I can't think of anything worse. If they were caring people who were doing it out of the kindness of their hearts then maybe I'd be interested but not these fuckers charging a fortune for poorly prepared ayahuasca. They must be laughing all the way to the bank.

i know what you are talking about.
But not all of them are like that.

You gotta dig through the shit to find a good one.
(or ask someone whos done it already)

 

[WaseFraKa]

When you've gone through as many courses of proton punp inhibitors as I have, then theres a bloody good reason for not wanting to get stomach acid into my oesophegeus...

sorry to hear that :/ (though I don't understand...)

(this macho bullshit about it's good to puke almost makes me laugh)

It's not masochist, it is a relief when it comes, it's a clensing thing... getting the bad toxins out of you.
Before a session you can also take some other purgative plants, that make you sweat and so on...but that is more for people wanting to desintoxicate from them drug abuse, as to lessen the craving.

the nausa is due to the harmine/harmaline not the DMT otherwise oral DPT at psychedelic doses would be expected to cause severe vomiting (harmala alkaloids cause dopamine increase in the CTZ, leading to the big spit)

maybe but dmt is also a factor. I don't see the link between dpt and dmt. I'm no chemist but I guess they don't operate on exactly the same receptors...
the brew I took without dmt was almost nausealess, but those containing dmt, there was far more nausea

And putting DMT into coca-cola produces the phosphate salt, not the hydrochloride

care to explain, I'd like to know, so next time I won't make a bald statement again :/

 

[swilow]

Ayahuasca is used as a purgative by traditional folks- its a dewormer, so they had good reason to do this. I'd suggest the physically medicinal side of ayahuasca brew has been mistakenly linked to its other use.....

I would like to have a true shamanic experience, but I don't know what that means, and I can't see why I have to go to the amazon to do it. If i did it, my scepticism would likely lead me to difficulty. I don't like how western psychedlic users revere old religions (well, how old are they?) and shamanism as this absolut pinnacle of thought.... Most shamans would freely admit they have no idea how they are doing they are doing, they may suggest they are communicating with ancestrors because these plants are ancient, but thats just an educated guess on their behalf.

What is a shaman? In everything I've read, I still can't define it. If its ritual, I'd call it stagnant, because rituals are unchanging due to doubt and mistrust of further, different examination. I don't think the context for DMT should be old and ingrained, though that could help to ground one. DMT is very spontaneous which is why I don't tend to use it with other people who almost tie me down through social etiquette and demands.

 

[Ismene]

The theory I've heard is that MAOI's increase the amount of serotonin floating around your gut which stimulates the vagus nerve and makes you vomit.

BUT..moclobemide by itself doesn't make you vomit. Moclobemide with DMT and food/coca-cola doesn't make you vomit, just moclobemide and DMT with nothing else in your stomach makes me vomit so I'm not sure what's going on. And it doesn't make everyone vomit either.

Incidentally, you arn't putting the DMT into the cola before you take it - that does no good whatsoever - you'd still vomit your guts up. You're taking the DMT and THEN drinking 500ml of cola on top of it once it's in your stomach.

 

[Ismene]

What is a shaman? In everything I've read, I still can't define it. If its ritual, I'd call it stagnant, because rituals are unchanging due to doubt and mistrust of further, different examination. I don't think the context for DMT should be old and ingrained, though that could help to ground one. DMT is very spontaneous which is why I don't tend to use it with other people who almost tie me down through social etiquette and demands.

True. For me going to see a shaman would be like going to see a Bishop to find out about God. The whole point of psychedelics is that it's YOUR direct experience with the entheogen. No bishops required

 

[swilow]

^^^Care to elaborate, i don't know much myself except for what I've read and watched on doco's etc.

 

[WaseFraKa]

they know the ways of the plants. They can see in what state you are, they can make the trip go in a opposite direction just by singing an icaros, they can see your problems. It's not just a show. The center Takiwasi uses shamans in conjunctions with traditional occidental medicines to cure addicted patients. If you ever do a session with a shaman you will see that they know exactly what they are doing, and it is to help and cure you.
ayahuasca is not a fun experience, but neither are heavy doses of other psychedelics...until which point it can heal will depend on you, but from my experience it is amazing

 

[Ismene]

I get where you're coming from. Shaman's are guys who are experienced with the plants and can offer bits of advice, but it still isn't something that appeals to me. The shamans experience of ayahusca is HIS experience of ayahuasca, I want my own experence. And I'm not entirely sure how much I value the opinion of shamans to be honest. When you read what they say they often start dredging bits of bullshit they've heard catholic missionaries say about "Jesus" and "Mother Mary". To me that's just contaminating the whole experience with superstitious garbage.

As for the "healing" your problems side of it - I think a lot of that is just taking advantage of primitive people. Like in Africa when the Witchdoctor puts on a skull mask and says someone is going to die and the next day they die because they're so clueless they believe what he tells them. The shaman will give you ayahuasca and say "You've got bad guts but they'll be better in a week" and they will be simply because of the placebo effect.

I think ayahausca and heavy doses of psychedelics are fun, and I think the fun is probably the vital component of any "healing" for me. As Shulgin once said "Euphoria is good for you".

 

[swilow]

^^^To call people primitive is somewhat wrong, i would think a society of terrorism, George Bush and nuclear warheads is more primitive then withdoctery. In this case, the psychsomatic power of the brain, and the respect and reverence tribespeople may have for their shaman, probably contributes more to the healing then the drugs- but the fact that these guys can exploit the 'placebo' effect so masterfully as to wreak tangible change, is rather amazing.

In a sense, shamen certainly wouldn't be the safest people to tripwith, they take (usually) very large doses and utilise datura's/etc in their rituals for further derangement of the senses- their aim, it would seem, is complete dislocation to cleanse perception- not many sheltered and socialised western psyches seem to be able to handle that sort of stuff very well. The shamen simply know which plants wreak what effect, not how or why. Thats what i want to know.