The Big and Dandy AMT Thread - 2nd incarnation
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Xtc <3
Bluelighter
Does the euphoria from AMT work in a similar manner to MDMA?
By that I mean I shouldn't have to open a junior's saving account for serotonin, save up for weeks and weeks and then BAM!!! withdraw it all at once for some euphoria like MDMA
.
Forgive me as my knowledge of neurochemistry is pretty wank but I would like to get a basic grasp on the whole concept. Here goes...
The way I envision the whole serotonergic system is like this...
You have a serotonin chamber where serotonin is made and used respectively,
I picture each serotonin molecule to be like a post-it note which will then get put in the postbox (SERT) ready to issue a command , the more post-it notes the brain has to send out the more effectively the system can run. A shortage of notes however mean that less messages can be sent so the system is less stable resulting in depression etc.
Also in this chamber are serotonin receptor's that are used to measure the serotonin so the brain knows how many post it notes it can send out, when these receptors are activated by a serotonin molecule your mood improves (depending on number of receptors and amount of serotonin available depends on how happy you feel).
From what I can gather when MDMA is taken, it comes into your system and says to the little post-it notes waiting in the mailbox 'Hey its okay ill take your place and relieve you of your duty because I can also fit in the mailbox (SERT), you go back and chill in the chamber and smoke a J or something'
So now the chamber gets flooded with serotonin, the exact amount depending on the dose of MDMA consumed and the amount of serotonin in the system prior to consumption.
The serotonin activates receptor's much more frequently now due to the excess serotonin in the chamber and more receptors become active to deal with the work load of trying to re-post all the notes that the MDMA replaced.
This is what makes you feel high.
Im aware that the whole system is MUCH more complex than that, but I would very much appreciate some feedback on the quality of my general understanding of the concept, I am very eager to learn and any help will be greatly appreciated.
Any recommendations for some good books for the beginner wanting to get a greater understanding of neurochemistry would be wonderful as well.
I see that AMT is a serotonin releaser + reuptake inhibitor, what does this mean exactly and how would it be represented in my analogy of the serotonin system?
Woah, long post... got carried away
By that I mean I shouldn't have to open a junior's saving account for serotonin, save up for weeks and weeks and then BAM!!! withdraw it all at once for some euphoria like MDMA
.Forgive me as my knowledge of neurochemistry is pretty wank but I would like to get a basic grasp on the whole concept. Here goes...
The way I envision the whole serotonergic system is like this...
You have a serotonin chamber where serotonin is made and used respectively,
I picture each serotonin molecule to be like a post-it note which will then get put in the postbox (SERT) ready to issue a command , the more post-it notes the brain has to send out the more effectively the system can run. A shortage of notes however mean that less messages can be sent so the system is less stable resulting in depression etc.
Also in this chamber are serotonin receptor's that are used to measure the serotonin so the brain knows how many post it notes it can send out, when these receptors are activated by a serotonin molecule your mood improves (depending on number of receptors and amount of serotonin available depends on how happy you feel).
From what I can gather when MDMA is taken, it comes into your system and says to the little post-it notes waiting in the mailbox 'Hey its okay ill take your place and relieve you of your duty because I can also fit in the mailbox (SERT), you go back and chill in the chamber and smoke a J or something'
So now the chamber gets flooded with serotonin, the exact amount depending on the dose of MDMA consumed and the amount of serotonin in the system prior to consumption.
The serotonin activates receptor's much more frequently now due to the excess serotonin in the chamber and more receptors become active to deal with the work load of trying to re-post all the notes that the MDMA replaced.
This is what makes you feel high.
Im aware that the whole system is MUCH more complex than that, but I would very much appreciate some feedback on the quality of my general understanding of the concept, I am very eager to learn and any help will be greatly appreciated.
Any recommendations for some good books for the beginner wanting to get a greater understanding of neurochemistry would be wonderful as well.
I see that AMT is a serotonin releaser + reuptake inhibitor, what does this mean exactly and how would it be represented in my analogy of the serotonin system?
Woah, long post... got carried away
You're a little off, consider serotonin to live in a house A (being the first neuron), in the neighbourhood there is another house, B, that has a place where serotonin can do its job, let's say deliver the paper in the morning.
In house A serotonin has a partner (SERT) who doesn't want serotonin to spend all day away from home and gets it and takes it back inside. This is what normally happens. And it happens to dopamine as well.
Taking MDMA is like all over your brain, 'serotonines' in many houses want to go deliver the paper like a madman and spam the neighbours, not even does the partner forget to get serotonin back inside, MDMA causes the SERT partner to kick serotonin out when it is inside, at home. So a two way street becomes a one way tsunami, which is why MDMA feels great but is not the lightest drug on the brain. Again, this is true for dopamine as well.
a-MT is a little different. It leaves the SERT partner alone but sends more serotonin out to do their job in a balanced way and it does this for serotonin, but also dopamine and norepinephrine.
Besides that a-MT itself acts like it delivers papers only not all that often, but it does that pretty much everywhere in the brain equally.
If I'm not mistaken, the papers a-MT deliver are the reason for it's psychedelic effect while the sending out more regular old serotonin and pals cause the anti-depressant effects and euphoria.
Oh yeah not to forget the reuptake inhibition, which in this visualization is the same as preventing the partners (SERT, DAT for dopamine and NET/NAT for norepinephrine) from getting their neurotransmitter back inside the house. This is sometimes not mentioned.
In house A serotonin has a partner (SERT) who doesn't want serotonin to spend all day away from home and gets it and takes it back inside. This is what normally happens. And it happens to dopamine as well.
Taking MDMA is like all over your brain, 'serotonines' in many houses want to go deliver the paper like a madman and spam the neighbours, not even does the partner forget to get serotonin back inside, MDMA causes the SERT partner to kick serotonin out when it is inside, at home. So a two way street becomes a one way tsunami, which is why MDMA feels great but is not the lightest drug on the brain. Again, this is true for dopamine as well.
a-MT is a little different. It leaves the SERT partner alone but sends more serotonin out to do their job in a balanced way and it does this for serotonin, but also dopamine and norepinephrine.
Besides that a-MT itself acts like it delivers papers only not all that often, but it does that pretty much everywhere in the brain equally.
If I'm not mistaken, the papers a-MT deliver are the reason for it's psychedelic effect while the sending out more regular old serotonin and pals cause the anti-depressant effects and euphoria.
Oh yeah not to forget the reuptake inhibition, which in this visualization is the same as preventing the partners (SERT, DAT for dopamine and NET/NAT for norepinephrine) from getting their neurotransmitter back inside the house. This is sometimes not mentioned.
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Rectal supposedly has much less nausea. It also comes up faster and doesn't last the long haul like oral does.
I quite like oral dosing though; much much better than vaporization. Vaporization doesn't make one trip; it's just a crappy stimulant without much euphoria.
Oral dosing takes a long time to come on but the high is so amazing
As for oral; try 4-5mg for starters. Most people aren't the crazy lightweight I am but 5mg had me feeling a bit crappy; but that could have been the benzo rebound anxiety I was having at the time.
3mg oral the next day was one of the most euphoric experiences I've had in a long time. Very reminiscent of MDMA but not in a rushed or speedy way. Very relaxed and euphoric with a pleasant body energy.
Is it possible to get high with only 3mg??! I dont try this because the longer duration and several nausea reports
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
3mg would be in the antidepressant range for most, I'd think. I find 5mg gives a nice bit of gentle, light euphoria and puts a spring in my step if vaped. I don't really use AMT orally cos of the loooooong come up and GI discomfort. I almost always vaporise it as I find it to be highly effective, of more manageable duration, and with no nausea. Low dose AMT is great for a mild-moderate lift but I wouldn't expect anything too strong or even close to psychedelic at those levels - more like 20-30mg for those effects when vaped. YMMV, of course
Xtc <3
Bluelighter
Cheers solipsis just what I was looking for, very helpful :D
Btw my AMT has arrived and it smells really strongly even through the baggy, the smell is not too dissimilar to the smell of some JWH-073 I had a while back?
Is this normal?
Btw my AMT has arrived and it smells really strongly even through the baggy, the smell is not too dissimilar to the smell of some JWH-073 I had a while back?
Is this normal?
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
Xtc <3
Bluelighter
Sampled AMT for the first time with 2 others on the weekend.
Attempted to plug 35mg which was difficult as I was not aware it isn't soluble in water, still managed anyway.
Comeup was pretty rough yet easily bearable for about 2 hours, most similar to 2C-I imo.
What followed was not what I expected from this chem at all, SOOOOOO much stimulation...
I havn't been so stimulated in all my life, and not the yippee lets run around in circles and rave kind of stimulation, just sitting there legs tapping and gurning wildy.
One thing that particulary struck me about the state was how similar it was to my perception when i'm dreaming, my waking world was experienced like a lucid dream (Be it a highly stimulated one
)
About 6 hours in I decided to smoke a bowl and that highly amplified the psychedelic side of the drug for quite some time, which was rather pleasant.
1.5mg of Phenazepam nearer the end chilled me out and put me to sleep, felt fucked up and lethargic for all of the following day.
The gurn from this substance was unreal, mephedrone or ecstasy dont even come close to the facial tension AMT gave me, wish I bought my dummy with me hehe
Attempted to plug 35mg which was difficult as I was not aware it isn't soluble in water, still managed anyway
.Comeup was pretty rough yet easily bearable for about 2 hours, most similar to 2C-I imo.
What followed was not what I expected from this chem at all, SOOOOOO much stimulation...
I havn't been so stimulated in all my life, and not the yippee lets run around in circles and rave kind of stimulation, just sitting there legs tapping and gurning wildy.
One thing that particulary struck me about the state was how similar it was to my perception when i'm dreaming, my waking world was experienced like a lucid dream (Be it a highly stimulated one
)About 6 hours in I decided to smoke a bowl and that highly amplified the psychedelic side of the drug for quite some time, which was rather pleasant.
1.5mg of Phenazepam nearer the end chilled me out and put me to sleep, felt fucked up and lethargic for all of the following day.
The gurn from this substance was unreal, mephedrone or ecstasy dont even come close to the facial tension AMT gave me, wish I bought my dummy with me hehe
psood0nym
Bluelighter
I found RA of aMT to be more stimulating for longer than oral or even IM (same for 2C-E). I have no idea why it should be more stimulating than IM, and it's probably just natural variability between doses and coincidence, but for less stimulation it's probably best to go with oral instead. The come up typically takes at least an hour to even be felt, so it's best if you can wake up early, take it, and go back to sleep. I start smoking cannabis as soon as I start feeling stimulated from aMT. It really takes the edge off. I use my one-hitter and smoke just once an hour during the plateau, since there's a definite ceiling on how high you can get during that phase, but even a little cannabis enhances the euphoria significantly. I know quinine is used by some bruxism sufferers, so when you go to get gum next time it might be worth picking up some tonic water for the muscle relaxing effects. If I need to sleep I use the rest of the tonic for a nightcap with gin along with diphenhydramine to help me keep from stirring in bed.
pseudononamouse
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Is there any difference in stimulation between oral and sublingual administration?
Hi folks, I have just received 0.1g of AMT to test. I am 6ft 4in, 249lb and 27 yrs of age. I have quite a high tolerance for MDMA/M1 and am wondering what would be a good starting dose. I was thinking 35mg in a gelcap rectally taken around noon. Any thoughts would be appreciated as I dont want to undershoot and yet this will be my first experience with the compound so also dont want to overdo it!?
psood0nym
Bluelighter
^Given your size and tolerance to other monoamine releasers you'll probably find the dose light in terms of stimulation and euphoria (and probably always will). Still, there's no telling how you will react to aMT's psychedelic side, so 35 mg is a good starting dose.
^Nice 1, think i'll stick with 35mg then and see how it goes.
Also I think i've got the freebase form (fine/white) i.e. not thick crystals as in HCL??? (I think thats right). Would it work rectally in a gelcap in this form ie. not water soluble, or should I just eat it?
Also I think i've got the freebase form (fine/white) i.e. not thick crystals as in HCL??? (I think thats right). Would it work rectally in a gelcap in this form ie. not water soluble, or should I just eat it?
psood0nym
Bluelighter
I think I've read reports that state the freebase will work regardless, but if you want to be sure converting to the acetate salt is super easy. Just dump the freebase in a small amount of 5% white vinegar. After it's dissolved dilute with water so it's about 2:1 water to vinegar (to avoid sting) and plug away.
I don't think there's any necessary difference in superficial appearance between HCl and freebase.
I don't think there's any necessary difference in superficial appearance between HCl and freebase.
I have a few questions concerning amt.
I am 5,10 and weigh ~70kg. I have very little psychedelic experience. I've done shrooms twice, one was a high dose the other a medium one. I have done 2c-c a few times and thats it. I havn't done mdma for over a year or any other stimulants for two months ie, mephedrone.
I was thinking about starting with 30mg orally. What do you guys think?
Also I heard this stuff has a bad jaw clench. I was thinking of taking magnesium to ease this. Will magnesium help and will it it interact with the amt in anyway (maoi problems)?
I am 5,10 and weigh ~70kg. I have very little psychedelic experience. I've done shrooms twice, one was a high dose the other a medium one. I have done 2c-c a few times and thats it. I havn't done mdma for over a year or any other stimulants for two months ie, mephedrone.
I was thinking about starting with 30mg orally. What do you guys think?
Also I heard this stuff has a bad jaw clench. I was thinking of taking magnesium to ease this. Will magnesium help and will it it interact with the amt in anyway (maoi problems)?
pseudononamouse
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2009
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30mg should be a medium dose I think.
How much magnesium and in what form should be taken to prevent jaw clenching? What dose starts to have laxative effects?
Has anyone tried combining gingo biloba with AMT?
I take 500-700mg in elememtal form to help ease jaw clenching(it doesn't stop it). I also dissolve it in some orange juice and leave it for half an hour to increase the bio-avaliability.
I haven't shit myself yet on magnesium but ymmv.
I haven't shit myself yet on magnesium but ymmv.
i havnt tried amt in a long while, the price has gone up quite alot since i last had it, i hear there is quite alot of crap stuff that was going around, i may have too look into some though because i used to love it as an anti depressant as low levels
pseudononamouse
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Has anyone else found that the unique value of AMT is partly because of its tendency to keep the ego intact but still induce a psychedelic state?
Iodjini_dk
Bluelighter
I know its been a long time since this was posted. But is it really true that AMT releases as much serotonin as MDMA does? I was not under this impression.
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