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The Benzodiazepine Thread v. IV

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Pyrazolam really sounds quite useless in respect of beimg an efficient benzodiazepine. Probably the reason why its not prescribed in many, if any, countries.

There are far better benzos out tgere to do the job without having to take an absurd amount for medical application.

Its something i wouldnt personally recommend for the above reasons. Its too easy to get a valium or oxazepam script truth be told.
 
i'm on the clonaz train, i'm working
day by day
hour by hour
to keep my head
above the fucking water
?

Ok ok ok, need some serious advice here. I seem to have a HUGE tolerance regarding downers. About a year ago in an effort to sleep I took 300mg (yes, 300mg) of diazepam. No effect whatsoever. I really just wanted to talk to someone so I called a drug crisis line, next thing I know there's an ambulance at my house with threats of police action if I didn't comply and go to the hospital. What a f#*king waste of time, I wasn't in he least bit dopey. 6 hours later they let me to and then I had and hour to get to work. Helpful, NOT.

Anyway, my question is this. If I develope a tolerance to one type of benzo (let's go alprozalam here), does that mean I will have a tolerence to all other benzos? This is an addiction I desperately want to stop.

Please don't judge me. I'm in a bad headspace right now and am trying to get my life in order. Advice sincerely appreciated.
 
Anyway, my question is this. If I develope a tolerance to one type of benzo (let's go alprozalam here), does that mean I will have a tolerence to all other benzos? This is an addiction I desperately want to stop.

yes you will. benzos have a cross tolerance between each branch of the benzo tree. it is best to taper down on a longer acting benzo such as valium which is essentially the stock standard for such measures.

best of luck with it and dont hold back with any other related questions.

junkie said:
ohhh no im prescribed clonaz againwatch out

please take it easy and be as responsible as well.

clonazepam is rather deceptive in having you think youre not fucked up due to how subtle the high is. its not like xanax or valium for example where its a pronounced high.

take your desured dose and out ut away or if simeone else trustworthy is around have them look after them.

dont make the mistake of drinking heavily or taking high doses of other narcotics as you know it increases the chance of OD sigbificantly.

stay safe brother.
 
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Pyrazolam may have some application in the niche market for a very functional, non-inebriating anxiolytic (like a less sedative oxazepam), for non-severe cases - however, I'd still think that alprazolam or clonazepam, maybe bromazepam at a lower dose would be better options, unless one experiences paradoxical reactions. I found it to be the weakest benzo I've tried by far, with no recreational value and negligible medicinal use. My anxiety and panic has always been of quite a severe sort, though, so for some it may suffice and be a better option - after all, you want to be taking the weakest and least side-effect heavy drugs you can get by with.
 
yes you will. benzos have a cross tolerance between each branch of the benzo tree. it is best to taper down on a longer acting benzo such as valium which is essentially the stock standard for such measures.

best of luck with it and dont hold back with any other related questions.



please take it easy and be as responsible as well

Thank you. I feel very much alone in all of this (have certainly not told my family I think mum wild have a heart attack or something!) and I desperately need to get this evil closet monkey off my back.
 
I have chronic anxiety and need benzos to function, well I've been on them since 2004 so completely dependent on them. My favourite is clonazepam - I find it to be the same strength as Xanax but has a half life of 25hrs in comparison to xanax's 8. I agree being able to function normally without over analysing racing heart and being shaky, it's nice not to be high strung. That said I always ration my benzos so I can get cozy on them every so often. I get prescribed a mixture so down a cocktail and just relax with a DVD or something. I don't abuse them or mix with alcohol just save what I can. I've had problems with opiates but love that sedated but just awake feeling and benzos are a lot safer for me.

Ok I think I have to clear a few things up here; firstly, your post red shark is presenting mixed impressions. If you have "chronic anxiety" and "need" benzos - than you shouldn't have a favourite, but an isomer which has the highest efficacy which treat your symptoms (not to mentioned no doctor should be [providing the condition is anxiety] re-scripting for any benzo. Anyway, this is irrelevant tbh.

Good spotting! .... :) You're right in noticing Clonazepam (Klonopin) is half the strength of the Alprazolam (Xannax)*

It's also true that to live one's life on an manic/"high strung" state is no way to live, neither is chronically being addicted to a medication(s). Especially a medication of which with continual, chronic** use exasperates symptoms. You mentioned you are mixing the benzos with alcohol to potentiate it? One would assume that initially your scripted dose would have lasted you? Doesn't this show not just an addiction but tolerance and increasing (risky) behaviour to "make them last"? You've already mentioned you've had to struggle against (still do?) opiates, is this not basic transference? Yes, benzodiazepines do have a safer therapeutic index however poly-drug use will dramatically reduce this.

My point? Maybe it's time to follow up with further help? I realise each to their own and each at their own time - I know this personally. We are on BL however so HR is the aim! :)

....There is a similarly worded pharm Clozapine that is used in the treatment of schizophrenia so I think you might be confused.

As other's have said; Clonazepam and Clozapine are completely different drugs (with completely different MOA) - both however can both be scripted for anxiety (in certain circumstances). Which is more beneficial for each person however, is just that, dependant on each person (and their symptoms, life-style, personality, etc).


....I don't think clonaz is safer at all. The WDs from clonaz are absolutely horrendous, and are more drawn out than alprazolam......

I don't think it's (w/d from either alpraz or clonaze) a matter one is worst than the other. Each does have it's own drug profile but there's too many variables on the pt's side to say a sweeping comment such as clonaze w/d's are all horrible - I assume this was your experience though? :( That's unfortunate!!


Doctors aren't stupid man, you seriously think they don't know what a CWE is? .....Im no fucken expert but putting someone on suboxone for a codeine "addiction" seem really irresponsible, its like prescribing meth for a dexie habit.


Sorry, wrong on both accounts. Firstly the component covering recreational drugs (sx/dx/tx/etc.) for med students is very small! Let alone going into such details as to what a "CWE" is. This is most definitely not covered!
Secondly, I don't think you understand the concept of "replacement therapies" - such as ORT. Please have a read of (either the wiki page or better yet the country-wide, Government funded program Drug & Alcohol Services Association Inc. Each state has it's own page, this one is for South Australian's DASAA.*** Maybe whilst ya at it check out the definition of "addiction". To say the least having problems with how you are (or more often not) controlling something, anything - weather another person believes it's "just" (codeine) - is irrelevant!



* 0.24mg clonaze == 1mg alpraz
** By chronic use here I mean it medically beginning from 6 months to years/decades
*** If this information isn't enough, I'm happy to provide further information for those who require help with their addicition.
 
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.....I get a fair amount of euphoria from etiz, was curious if pyra gives similar euphoria....

Just between you and I, so do I! ;) Never felt an actual come up on a benzo before etiz! Blew me/surprised me completely!

yes you will. benzos have a cross tolerance between each branch of the benzo tree. it is best to taper down on a longer acting benzo such as valium which is essentially the stock standard for such measures.....

Good post tentram! I'm not sure if you said or not cornflakes however if you are a habitual user of benzos - and especially at these (ridiculously) high levels), without titrating your dose down over a considerable period (read: months) w/d's will be a bitch and at their worst lead to convulsions, seizures and death (not to scare you though sorry bud). In fact, I'd personally be thinking about either going to see your GP, psychiatrist or DASAA services to help plan a titration pathway! :\


.....There is a similarly worded pharm Clozapine that is used in the treatment of schizophrenia so I think you might be confused.

This type of confusion in medicine are called "Look-A-Like, Sound-A-Like Drugs" - something to be careful about!

Pyrazolam may have some application in the niche market for a very functional, non-inebriating anxiolytic (like a less sedative oxazepam), for non-severe cases.....maybe bromazepam at a lower dose would be better options.....

I personally wouldn't suggestion bromazepam (not to mention I've be surprised a GP prescribing it). Cornflakes, I think something you've got to keep in the back of your mind that any other benzo (Pyrazolam , oxzaepam [my suggestion] or other), you won't receive that high you'll be expecting - that high you usually got from the clonaze/alpraze! I think you've got to change your whole thinking about why you're taking them - and if it's something similar to a maintenance dose* which it sounds like it is - you in fact shouldn't be getting a high. The dosing should be just enough to keep your boy from entering w/d, so at the same time you can get on with your life (and not have it all about an addiction).

Get what I'm trying to say here? :)


Good luck! Hope all goes well for you!


* Of which, (and to be fair I am going on just the posts in this thread) I would highly suggest seeing a professional in helping your write out a quit plan. At the same time be given not only the correct type of benzo but the correct dosages at the correct weeks in order to titrate you down to, well hopefully nothing! :)
 
ABC a.m. today story on Xanax T.G.A set to re-schedule alpraz tomorow they had the magistrate who heads Vic's Dgruc Court G.P.'s who prescribe, a few dif ppl was quite anti - Xanax fairly one sided but *most* of the ppl seemed knowledgeable on the subject. Not really one positive thing to say about the meds which is usual I spose.

* of course they had a crying woman who had lost her sister to an o.d. wouldn't be a drug story w/out one hey! they did however point out she had 6 dif med in her system.
 
JJJ Hack are also doing a piece on the same. Anyone here who has been denied medicine they need should phone up with their story.
 
Tyrael:

I find it very hard to believe putting someone on something like bupe or methadone which has far more potential to be abused than codeine is pretty silly, even having 15mg less a day or few days over a month or two makes a lot more sense to me.

Shit I just realised this is the benzo thread I better say something benzoish . Anyone here get Kalma brand alpraz? I switched over from Xanax and find them to be much better to crush.
 
Yea I can attest to the Kalma being much easier to break down - down here in Tas there is a huge scene of ppl mixing opies (pharms) done, oxy MSContin what eva in big 20ml barels with a few bricks thrown in far to many OD's for the size of our I.D.U. population down here.
 
JJJ Hack are also doing a piece on the same. Anyone here who has been denied medicine they need should phone up with their story.
Yea also listened to that was far more balanced at least they were talking & had callers talking about how Alpraz had really worked well for them (when not abused)
 
XANAX ABUSE PROMPTS PUSH FOR TOUGHER REGULATION OF THE ANTI-ANXIETY MEDICATION

Doctors, health researchers and a magistrate are welcoming likely new rules designed to halt the over-prescribing of controversial anti-anxiety medication Xanax.

The ABC has been told Xanax is likely to be rescheduled by regulators as early as tomorrow.

The drug is a form of benzodiazepine that is prescribed to combat anxiety, panic attacks and even depression.

But it can also be addictive, and has been blamed for dangerous criminal behaviour and causing deaths.

In the space of a generation, the supply of Xanax, generically known as alprazolam, has exploded by more than 1,400 per cent.

Previous attempts to restrict the use of the popular drug have failed.

Megan McNeil's sister died suddenly last year. She had six prescribed drugs in her system, including Xanax.

She also had a history of drug addiction.

While the family has already been through a coronial inquest, they are worried the community is being kept in the dark about what can so easily go wrong.

"She just collapsed with no sign of struggle," Ms McNeil said.

"She still had her mobile phone in her hand, just like normal and she's just fallen asleep.

"You wonder, 'do the doctors know and are they educated and are they aware of how dangerous this mix is?'"

Xanax bingeing has 'dangerous' consequences

The head of Victoria's Drug Court, magistrate Tony Parsons, says he often sees the worst side of Xanax's use in the community.

"It's a drug that has terribly high addictive qualities and it has an effect on the users, which is quite frightening," he said.

"Commonly I see people who have been bingeing on Xanax, the first thing that happens is that they lose their memory.

"Often we'll see defendants who wake up in the police cells, they'll have no memory of what's happened in the preceding three or four days and they'll have no recollection that they're charged with 10 or 20 burglaries.

"So it's a dangerous drug when it's abused. It causes amnesia, it makes people lose almost all of their inhibition, and consequently very dangerous behaviour follows."

Dr Angela Rintoul, who works in preventative medicine at Melbourne's Monash University, is concerned the drug is being prescribed for extended periods.

"Alprazolam is approved only for short-term use, which is two to four weeks in Australia, because there's no evidence of medical benefit beyond short term," she said.

"It's actually a fast-acting benzodiazepine and it has a short half life, which means it's more likely that patients could become dependent on the drug."

On top of that, she says the drug commands a price on the street.

"They can purchase Xanax on the street for around three tablets for $10. So there is a significant black market for Xanax in Australia," Dr Rintoul said.

Tougher rules on the way

Australian Medical Association president Dr Steve Hambleton says there appears to be an epidemic of Xanax abuse in Australia.

"This is not the first line drug that you'd want and yet people are actually seeking it out," he said.

"It's often not the regular patients of the practice. It's often new people coming in."

He concedes his profession needs to lift its game.

"We do need to make sure we're asking sufficient questions," Dr Hambleton said.

"Practices often need to have a practice policy set up to actually make sure that they minimise the misuse of this drug.

"Of course if any doctor says they have never been fooled by a patient, they really haven't been around long enough."

The ABC understands that after a protracted battle, the Federal Government's Therapeutic Goods Administration is poised to pave the way for Xanax to be rescheduled.

That means doctors will have to think harder before prescribing, and it will be more difficult for anyone to remain on the drug for long periods.

Drug manufacturers and other interested parties will have two weeks to challenge the rescheduling before a final ruling is made by the end of next month.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-...er-regulation-of-the-anti-anxiety-medication/
 
Tyrael:

I find it very hard to believe putting someone on something like bupe or methadone which has far more potential to be abused than codeine is pretty silly, even having 15mg less a day or few days over a month or two makes a lot more sense to me.....


Obviously it depends on the extent* of the addiction but codeine can be just as addictive** as any other opiate! Have you been into somewhere like DASSA, spoken with someone who works in the field (addiction nurse/doctor) or those in R&D of pharmacotherapy for drug abuse?.... I have with all 3 and if one has a such strong addiction to codeine - they won't put you treatment plan taping your codeine! Other than the fact that the only drugs legally of use for pharmacotherapy is (Suboxone) Buprenorphine and Methadone (and no other opiate is legally allowed to be prescribed in the treatment - how ever in excess - of addiction).

Additionally, it is becoming extremely less common for one to be put on Methadone and (straight) Buprenorphine due to the addiction potential - Suboxone is what will be given (for a variety of reasons - reduced possible IV use, Bupe's ceiling-dose effect, Bupe being a mixed agonist/antagonist and other pharamacological properties of the drug of which is why using Methadone as ORT is a lot less common these days***!). I can guarantee you can get much higher on codeine than Buprenorphine (Naloxone present or not) (and especially with potentiators), due to all these properties!

I'm not saying titrating your own dose of codeine down isn't better - if you can do it of course it's much better! I'm telling you from a legal and protocol stand point (which is generally consistent across all states), this is how it will be!

To bring it back to benzos; what we're seeing here (rescheduling) with Alprazolam, I would place money on this eventually happening with codeine! From what I'm hearing from people in (opiate) addiction research and doctors, there is a gaining popularity/push for the scheduling and current OTC dosage to be re-evaluated. Due to the fact that these people are seeing more and more people with codeine addictions and this is primarily due to the easy of availability of the drug! Just have a look at the post (and how many reincarnations of) in the Codeine & CWE Megathread thread!!


* Of course it's also all individualised - one doesn't just go into a ORT clinic and they take their word on it (that they're addicted) and put them on bupe/methadone - there's therapy, blood tests (for example come back with no drug plasma concentrations and yet the person isn't showing signs of w/d - something suss there!), consultations with trained addiction professionals, plus much more one must go through.
** Look up the definition of addiction - it's not just for a certain drug, just dosing oneself x-number of days nor dosing x-mg worth of a drug, etc!
***There are exceptions - tolerance (eg, immunological responses for one), pregnancy (incompatible with Naloxone/Narcain), drug profiles of each, etc.
 
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so what do they plan on doing with people that have been seeing the same doctor for years and have been prescribed it for years?

I think the aim is to prevent long term scripting off Alpraz - it isn't be a drug which is design for long term use. Also, making it harder for someone to be scripted it in the first place (and subsequently become "hook" - which is ridiculous since there are many other drugs with similar drug profiles for which this could occur.)

It can still be prescribed, just an authorisation number would be required (same a drugs of dependence) - that's how I read it.

Failing that, transferring onto another (similarly efficacious) drug (maybe Clonazepam being ~1/2 the potency of Alpraz?)?
 
We feally dont see too many counferfeit pharms here so id be more exoecting in higher diversion rates and cost as a result.

I know of people paying up to double what the average price youll pay for oxy when purchasing valium.

Black market price will definitely go up and probably see a rise in diazepam as a result of the rescheduling.

Check this space in a few years - valium will be schedule 8.
 
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