Harm Reduction Tapering Plan Mega thread - community project

[subdetox]

So what do you think would happen after taking lortabs for 10 days? More withdrawals? For how long? 5mg tabs really aren't shit to me, I have a high opiate tolerance. Like I said I kicked my pain pill habit using codiene cough syrup before, I ran out of pills, started having w/ds and then sipped the syrup for 4 days and when it was gone I felt fine, no more withdrawals. I was going to try to take the tabs every other day but my boyfriend is now refusing to help with my 3 year old son and I can't care for him while sick with w/d so I took another 2 lortabs today just to get out of bed. I also still have 2 suboxone films sitting at the pharm that my doc called in for w/d symptoms. I'm wondering if after the lortabs I could do a fast detox with those. The first time I took suboxone was after i'd been addicted to pain pills for 4 years, a friend gave me a couple pills and I only took 1/4th a day for 8 days and when they were gone I had absolutely no w/d symptoms at all and stayed clean for 3 years. I'm wondering at what point I could do something like that again.

Hopefully someone can help, this is destroying my relationship and I've already had the worst week and a half of my entire life. I just want to be normal again.

 

[SubDude]

So what do you think would happen after taking lortabs for 10 days? More withdrawals? For how long? 5mg tabs really aren't shit to me, I have a high opiate tolerance.

I can't really say from direct experience but probably more WD's. It's a difficult question and there's conflicting thoughts from those posting about switching from subs to short acting opiates before WD. My opinion is... after going thru abstinence wd hell for nine days... why start taking any other opiates again. But it's already complicated with the history of your morphine/miscarriage and subsequent low dose lortabs use. So... at this point why not just follow the taper from the tabs?

Like I said I kicked my pain pill habit using codiene cough syrup before, I ran out of pills, started having w/ds and then sipped the syrup for 4 days and when it was gone I felt fine, no more withdrawals.

Subs is different... as you've already found out.

I was going to try to take the tabs every other day but my boyfriend is now refusing to help with my 3 year old son and I can't care for him while sick with w/d so I took another 2 lortabs today just to get out of bed.

Could you possibly get help from family or friends? Your boyfriend [sons dad?] needs a kick in the rear.

I also still have 2 suboxone films sitting at the pharm that my doc called in for w/d symptoms. I'm wondering if after the lortabs I could do a fast detox with those. The first time I took suboxone was after i'd been addicted to pain pills for 4 years, a friend gave me a couple pills and I only took 1/4th a day for 8 days and when they were gone I had absolutely no w/d symptoms at all and stayed clean for 3 years. I'm wondering at what point I could do something like that again.

2nd time around is always more difficult. I just hate to see no benefit from those 9 days of hell. Once again... if it was me and I was serious about long term sobriety, I'd do the quick pill taper or stop now. but then I don't have a child to care for.

 

[subdetox]

Yeah I'm just going to continue the taper with the tabs and hope for the best when they run out. My bf finally said he'd trust and support my tapering with thwe tabs and all is well again on that front. I am very serious about long term sobriety and I know I'll get there in the long run.

Thanks to everyone for the answers and support!

Oh and my bf is not my sons dad but he treats my son as his own and is generally a very supportive wonderful dude. He's just concerned and wants what is best for me (no more opiate addiction)

 

[synchronous]

help me with w/d - what i have left

I have been on various scripts, hydrocodone, fentanyl, oxycodone - all were scripts and was doing the whole pain management routine after a hellish accident.. now that my current doctor just got up and left and left me needing another doctor and to see anyone it will take time, time I don't have.. I want to end this tolerance and be able to not worry about it but I fear w/d so much..

I will tell you how it has been since last monday.

for a few day's I was taking it down every day by at least 20%, wasn't feeling great and still I wasn't getting barely any sleep, sleep is the worst part. Friday came and I was able to refill some, not much though and like a fool, I wanted to feel better so bad that for 3 day's I was taking 50-60mg oxycodone, from anywhere 15mg to 25-30 at a time, through the night it would about 20-25 waking up and just feeling restless unable to sleep and take 10mg, fall asleep for 2-3 hours and wake back up. sigh - I had it down for a bit and went back up.

total of 155mg oxycodone left
what should I should?

most horrible part is if I cannot sleep - how long can this part last for. been only a couple times where I went with very low amounts, went two days feeling terrible, no sleep, thrashing around and feeling like I just want to fall off a bridge to just fall asleep - not going to do that but it was the first time in my life where I felt like this.

I also have .02 clodidine x 10 of them.. can these help with sleeping and from what I read if you start taking them, start low, which I tried half .01.

I hear about how you can get over w/d through a clinic or hospital but i have no idea where to do this at.. ER will not help you, right??


I am going to try and see a doctor tomorrow and see if they can help with anything, recently fractured my neck, c-1 fracture, being up at night unable to sleep and thrashing around just makes the pain in the neck/spine unbearable.

with what I have, the only logical break down would be, forget the logical part, i have no idea anymore and remember I have the clodidine too..

40mg monday
30mg tuesday
30mg w
30mg t

I didn't put much thought into the numbers above, but it does show what I have left though. I read on here that exercise, a lot of exercise can help. Does this help with speeding up the process too?? Also will it help to sleep easier doing it about 3-4 hours before sleep, I would love to just fall asleep and stay asleep.

 

[splenda]

just rough it out and cut off cold turkey and use the clonidine as needed for sleep. the withdrawals will be harsh but you should be able to pull through if you're dedicated enough. i've been through many withdrawals cold turkey with an even larger habit and i can say that although they were bad they were still at least bearable.

 

[fakenamedotcom]

clonidine really does do wonders...itll help you sleep in mild WDs, but not in the severe stage.

try to buy some benzos from a friend (like xanax or klonapin, a lot of people have this kinda crap laying around the house)

but how much are you taking a day..50mg? thats not too bad, the WDs will seem terrible to you but to others who are taking 10 times the dose you do, its not bad at all.

dont take more than .03mg of clonadine a day.

and work out a regimin for your opiates.
but the truth is, you're going to have to go through some sort of withdrawls at one point.

 

[synchronous]

just rough it out and cut off cold turkey and use the clonidine as needed for sleep. the withdrawals will be harsh but you should be able to pull through if you're dedicated enough. i've been through many withdrawals cold turkey with an even larger habit and i can say that although they were bad they were still at least bearable.

Splenda - from your experience and have taken more, how bad was the sleep for you, what did you do - maybe I am not taking enough clonidine - I would feel the side effects of the clodidine (dry mouth, being very light headed and very drowsy but still unable to sleep, that was taking a half of a .01 to a full .01 over the course of a couple hours.

clonidine really does do wonders...itll help you sleep in mild WDs, but not in the severe stage.

try to buy some benzos from a friend (like xanax or klonapin, a lot of people have this kinda crap laying around the house)

but how much are you taking a day..50mg? thats not too bad, the WDs will seem terrible to you but to others who are taking 10 times the dose you do, its not bad at all.

dont take more than .03mg of clonadine a day.

and work out a regimin for your opiates.
but the truth is, you're going to have to go through some sort of withdrawls at one point.

so what should the dosing be on clonadine - I haven't had luck sleeping on it yet, do I need to take a full .01 @ night. average was about 50mg a day, for about 3 day's it was 90-120mg and back down again.. that dosage was only very short term, so really the average about 50mg/day... I hope it works like that.

 

[splenda]

Splenda - from your experience and have taken more, how bad was the sleep for you, what did you do - maybe I am not taking enough clonidine - I would feel the side effects of the clodidine (dry mouth, being very light headed and very drowsy but still unable to sleep, that was taking a half of a .01 to a full .01 over the course of a couple hours.



so what should the dosing be on clonadine - I haven't had luck sleeping on it yet, do I need to take a full .01 @ night. average was about 50mg a day, for about 3 day's it was 90-120mg and back down again.. that dosage was only very short term, so really the average about 50mg/day... I hope it works like that.

I've cold turkey'ed from 1200mg (1.2g) oral morphine sulphate a day using clonidine in the past to help with sleep and anxiety, etc. I usually took one 0.1mg pill and if it didn't help me get to sleep within an hour I'd take one more (and repeat every hour or so.) Usually a dose of .3mg clonidine would help me get to sleep real well.

 

[addicted2different]

Cold turkey man.. its better to have 2-3 days of absolute hell and a little while of shitty, rather than feeling like shit for a month or more.


flush it down the toilet, stock up on neo citreon and have a shitty time.

 

[fakenamedotcom]

if your average is 50mg a day, then you can cut it to 30mg tomorrow with minor problems.

the clonidine, .01 is what you should take, some need more but that should be fine. i used to take .01 and realized that all i needed was .005mg to feel fine...thats half

and with the wean off the opaites...STICK TO A SCHEDUAL...im on suboxone now, and i stayed at 3mg for a loongg time, or longer than i wanted because i didnt stick to a schedual. now im down to under 1mg a day cuz i stick to a schedual

basically, the longer you wait the better the outcome.

once you start feeling the bad WDs set in, wait atleast 2 more hours, or if you can 4-6 hours.
dont sit still or itl make it worse.

make sure you eat, take vitamins and stay active.

 

[synchronous]

basically, the longer you wait the better the outcome.

once you start feeling the bad WDs set in, wait atleast 2 more hours, or if you can 4-6 hours.

makes sense, what i can do when i feel the bad WDs is exercise, have cardio elliptical machine here and waiting plus the extensive cardio should help..

 

[ATLL765]

I would try waiting until you feel the withdrawal hitting you and then take about 10-15mg. See if this will take away the symptoms, if not, take another 5-10mg and that should do it. Then, as another poster said, wait until the w/d hits you again and take 10-15mg and start the process over again.

If you do this, it should keep the w/d symptoms to a minimum. If you have trouble sleeping use the clonidine by taking .1 and waiting about half an hour and then take another .1 and just keep doing that until you fall asleep.

No matter what you do it will never be 100% painless, but if you do what I said, it should be about as easy as possible with the items you said you have in hand.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I have been on various scripts, hydrocodone, fentanyl, oxycodone - all were scripts and was doing the whole pain management routine after a hellish accident.. now that my current doctor just got up and left and left me needing another doctor and to see anyone it will take time, time I don't have.. I want to end this tolerance and be able to not worry about it but I fear w/d so much..

I will tell you how it has been since last monday.

for a few day's I was taking it down every day by at least 20%, wasn't feeling great and still I wasn't getting barely any sleep, sleep is the worst part. Friday came and I was able to refill some, not much though and like a fool, I wanted to feel better so bad that for 3 day's I was taking 50-60mg oxycodone, from anywhere 15mg to 25-30 at a time, through the night it would about 20-25 waking up and just feeling restless unable to sleep and take 10mg, fall asleep for 2-3 hours and wake back up. sigh - I had it down for a bit and went back up.

total of 155mg oxycodone left
what should I should?

most horrible part is if I cannot sleep - how long can this part last for. been only a couple times where I went with very low amounts, went two days feeling terrible, no sleep, thrashing around and feeling like I just want to fall off a bridge to just fall asleep - not going to do that but it was the first time in my life where I felt like this.

I also have .02 clodidine x 10 of them.. can these help with sleeping and from what I read if you start taking them, start low, which I tried half .01.

I hear about how you can get over w/d through a clinic or hospital but i have no idea where to do this at.. ER will not help you, right??


I am going to try and see a doctor tomorrow and see if they can help with anything, recently fractured my neck, c-1 fracture, being up at night unable to sleep and thrashing around just makes the pain in the neck/spine unbearable.

with what I have, the only logical break down would be, forget the logical part, i have no idea anymore and remember I have the clodidine too..

40mg monday
30mg tuesday
30mg w
30mg t

I didn't put much thought into the numbers above, but it does show what I have left though. I read on here that exercise, a lot of exercise can help. Does this help with speeding up the process too?? Also will it help to sleep easier doing it about 3-4 hours before sleep, I would love to just fall asleep and stay asleep.

Ii am going to merge your thread into this thread.

 

[lozgod]

I can say from a lot of experience, the fear of withdrawal is worse than withdrawal itself. Withdrawal sucks. It sucks really bad but it won't kill you 999 out of 1000 times, with time it passes, and you will be glad you went cold turkey vs going on suboxone or methadone. Withdrawal will make you think twice before using again. Most addicts will use anyway but enough withdrawals and you will start looking at using differently. I am finally tired of it. I am making a sincere attempt at getting clean. I have the luxury of pain management as well and have someone controlling my meds and am lowering my dose every month. You don't have that option but have some good tools to assist you. Follow the previous advise and remember the fear is worse than the withdrawal itself. Benzo's can help with that and sleep as well.

 

[Jabberwocky]

but enough withdrawals and you will start looking at using differently

fucking a.

my doc has just gone on holidays for a month so i am going to have a rough couple of weeks ahead pain management wise as the other doctors at my practice won't even give me the time of day with what i'm on because of my age. i'll be dropping the oxycontin in the mean time and relying on just tramadol, nerontin and possilbly a bottle of valium.

i've been skipping doses only to double or triple up on occasions when hitting wd lately so this will be interesting to see how it plays out for me.

 

[lozgod]

fucking a.

my doc has just gone on holidays for a month so i am going to have a rough couple of weeks ahead pain management wise as the other doctors at my practice won't even give me the time of day with what i'm on because of my age. i'll be dropping the oxycontin in the mean time and relying on just tramadol, nerontin and possilbly a bottle of valium.

i've been skipping doses only to double or triple up on occasions when hitting wd lately so this will be interesting to see how it plays out for me.

I don't know what dose of oxy you are on but 100-150 mgs of tramadol will get me through my day. I never had to use it long term but I had a bottle of 100 50mg pills and they came in handy when I had them.

 

[Egeo_consilii]

What is everyone's opinion regarding the length of tapering? Is one to two weeks sufficient to *significantly* reduce the pains of withdrawals? Or, is a longer taper optimal at reducing w/d's?

What is the most effective way of reducing dosage of suboxone? Would skipping a day (and eventually 2 or more) after you get stabilized be effective at reducing w/d's when one jumpes off, or would reducing daily dosage be better? What about a combination of the two. For example: if one were stabilized at 2mg/day, then skipped a day; then when one is stable at that reduce the dosage to 1.5, and so on?

In the same vein as the above question: would waiting longer into withdrawal from full-agonist opiates (like 2-4 days) and then taking some bupe help reduce w/d's?

I have a lot more questions, but these seemed the most important. I hope everyone's weekend is going alright; thank everyone for sharing!

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

CT is easiest and fastest.. i just did it. It just takes will power, just keep telling yourself that you WILL feel better soon, sleep as much as you can (i found coming off bupe made me really tired) it makes time go by faster, and what goes away with time? THE W/D's!! lol clonidine vistaril and clonazepam help also.. but honestly i was on it 4 years and when i cold turkeyed it only lasted a week and i was better, i suggest to everyone since to just suck it up for a week.. i used to write out taper schedules for people but i really do feel that CT is best with a little bit of benzos and time you will come out of it feeling like a champ and that you just kicked withdrawals ass with your bare hands. and give you a sense of good accomplishment. I am going thru benzo withdrawal now.. im not going to be a drug addict no more even tho the bupe and benzos were prescribed i still felt like a drug addict (which i was technically since i was addicted to them) but i did cheat my w/d's yesterday with a little phenazepam.
But back to bupe.. CT #1.

BTW first 2 years on bupe i was on 16mg/day and the last 2 years on 1-2mg/day.. and for benzos i was addicted to 5mg clonazepam/day and 10mg phenazepam/day BUT i tapered with the benzos down to 1mg clonazepam, wish my dr woulda went lower but he stopped at 1mg. my taper was dropping .5mg every month or every other month (one year taper).

 

[amapola]

Hi Egeo_consilii,

We've found in OD that most tapering plans have the same basic concepts and have made a mega tapering thread. Although there are slight variations depending on the substance the questions that you have posed seem well fit with the mega thread so I'm going to merge this thread in with that one. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

What is everyone's opinion regarding the length of tapering? Is one to two weeks sufficient to *significantly* reduce the pains of withdrawals? Or, is a longer taper optimal at reducing w/d's?

This question can't be answered by anybody but you. It is all about how much pain your are willing to feel in order to be done with it quicker. The longer the taper, the less present the symptoms.

Would skipping a day (and eventually 2 or more) after you get stabilized be effective at reducing w/d's when one jumpes off, or would reducing daily dosage be better? What about a combination of the two. For example: if one were stabilized at 2mg/day, then skipped a day; then when one is stable at that reduce the dosage to 1.5, and so on?

It is generally better to take smaller doses every day as it achieves a more constant opioid level within your system and eliminates peaks and valleys.

would waiting longer into withdrawal from full-agonist opiates (like 2-4 days) and then taking some bupe help reduce w/d's?

The more painful symptoms you experience the shorter the taper will have to be. All that pain has to come out eventually and it's just how fast you let it out. It's worthwhile to note that you should wait until you are well into withdrawal to take bupe as it can cause precipitated withdrawal.

 

[Pegasus]

CT is easiest and fastest.. i just did it. It just takes will power, just keep telling yourself that you WILL feel better soon, sleep as much as you can (i found coming off bupe made me really tired) it makes time go by faster, and what goes away with time? THE W/D's!! lol clonidine vistaril and clonazepam help also.. but honestly i was on it 4 years and when i cold turkeyed it only lasted a week and i was better, i suggest to everyone since to just suck it up for a week.. i used to write out taper schedules for people but i really do feel that CT is best with a little bit of benzos and time you will come out of it feeling like a champ and that you just kicked withdrawals ass with your bare hands. and give you a sense of good accomplishment. I am going thru benzo withdrawal now.. im not going to be a drug addict no more even tho the bupe and benzos were prescribed i still felt like a drug addict (which i was technically since i was addicted to them) but i did cheat my w/d's yesterday with a little phenazepam.
But back to bupe.. CT #1.

BTW first 2 years on bupe i was on 16mg/day and the last 2 years on 1-2mg/day.. and for benzos i was addicted to 5mg clonazepam/day and 10mg phenazepam/day BUT i tapered with the benzos down to 1mg clonazepam, wish my dr woulda went lower but he stopped at 1mg. my taper was dropping .5mg every month or every other month (one year taper).

Man I really hope you don't jump off clonazepam at this dose, when I tried jumping from 0.5mg it was still pretty unpleasant! 1mg is still a huge dose, it is what I would take for a recreational dose if I were to take some today!