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Suboxone, is this right for me?

C

cornflakes

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
46
Location
Tasmania, Australia
Hi, I'm new here and am hoping someone can help me. I've read around 40 pages of a Buprenorphine mega-thread that's around here somewhere, but I can't find any answers to my specific situation, which is as follows:

I am a long term codeine user, daily for at least 7 years now. My current average daily dose is 200mg, taken all at once in the evening (and yes, I'm swallowing an awful lot of paracetamol too).

I don't use to get 'high', I use so I don't get WD. I have tried to taper in the past but something always screws it up and I end up back where I started very quickly.

Now that codeine is getting hard to get hold of I'm coming off the stuff. Plus I'm sick of it, I hate being dependent on something. And I hate lying to chemists every single bloody day.

So, on Wednesday, I will be starting a Suboxone program. But since reading the buprenorphine mega thread, I'm wondering if this is such a good idea. Is it overkill? The doctor was talking about 18 to 24 months on the stuff. Should I call this off before I start?

Please help!

Stay crunchy.
 
What dose is he putting you on? 200mg of codeine isn't much (this is coming from a fellow codeine lover) and I can see the potential for him to put you on too much bupe.

I tend to think that at that dose, you'd be better going cold turkey. WD from bupe will be longer, and it has a strong affinity for the opioid receptors which can be trouble if you need strong pain relief. Keep in mind you will be labelled as being on maintenance as well.
 
^ I'd tend to agree with Mr Blonde; you might be taking one step forwards, two steps back by getting on suboxone. At 200mg a day I'd say the physical withdrawal symptoms won't be too bad if you were just to taper off and quit codeine without any other meds to aid the process.

Also 200mg of codeine a day is way too much paracetamol if you're not extracting the codeine! Start doing cold water extractions as soon as possible if you're going to continue using it!!!!
 
Yeah I read about and tried a few CWEs a few months back but gave up quickly. My doctor knows all about my habit so we keep an eye on my insides, which are doing fine and always have done.

Ok, what sort of WD am I going to get coming off 200mg? I've never made it past 12 hours before I ache like shit, double dose and then throw up. I've organised the next two weeks off work for the sub thing, but could I realistically use that time instead to do a quick WD at home?

Sorry for all the questions I know I'm small time but I'm all on my own with this one even my doctor doesn't really seem very clued in.
 
At first thought this seems to be really overkill.

I was on methadone for a few years then bupe for a good 2 years and didn't get of all that unitil I went to a rehab for 4 months.

So really think about getting on a maintenance program cause it is fucking hard to get off. I repeat FUCKIN hard.

Also I don't know if you like to travel much or if work a busy schedule? , cause once your on maintenance you are tied to your clinic/pharmacy, so don't expect to just piss off to the gold coast for a week or anywhere else, unless you can afford to get over a gram a of smack to take with you, or an illegal supply of bupe.

I only found codeine after I learnt what a CWE was about a year ago and I get nice slight buzz with a possibly nod when combined with something else, and i find it very hard to see how I could get addicted to it enough to warrant getting on bupe, but everyone is different.

But then again taking 200mg everyday for 7 years is pretty extensive abuse.
 
^ Don't worry brother, we will help you out as best we can and the WD will not be too bad. I went cold turkey off about 1200-1300mg of codeine and it was wasn't fun but nowhere near what coming off a high amount of stronger opioids.

The worst part of the WD from the codeine will last about five days; it increases over the first couple and the absolute worst is on the third day. After that, it all starts decreasing. Physical symptoms will subside after about a week, maybe even less with your dose, though you will have cravings for possibly a long time or course and perhaps slight depression that may persist for a few weeks.

For they physical WD, get generic Immodium to help with the diarrhea. If you can any benzodiazepines they will help you to relax as well but don't get into the habit of taking them all time; just as needed,

If benzodiazepines aren't available, try herbal alternatives for relaxation and sleep. Valerian works for some people, but you need to use higher doses then is recommended on the box I've found. Kava is much better in my opinion, so is passionflower extract but not as good as Kava.

Ibuprofen can help with the physical aches and pain; won't take them away of course but can help take the edge off.

You might feel nauseous but keep your fluid and food intake up. Lots of calories! Comfort foods especially, eat your favorite meals that always make you feel good. If you experience a lot of vomiting and diarrhea, which I doubt you will, replace those lost electrolytes with Hydralyte or something similar.

Remember, we are here to help you and offer support. A lot of us have been through opioid WD but a lot worse and can offer advice and support to help you through it. Your two week break is the perfect time to quit brother; I'd say go for it. :)
 
Hiya cornflakes. I was a small time codeine addict too and I have damaged my kidneys and liver after many years of abuse. I ALWAYS do CWE now if I want to take it. I went on suboxone as a maintenance. It was good and bad. I was tired all the time, and tied to the pharmacy, difficult whenever you're a professional....nodding off in meetings etc. It was very hard coming off suboxone. Took a few tries and in the end, the WDs last much longer. I still abuse codeine, on and off, but never take paracetamol.

If I was you, I would have a really good think about it. If codeine no longer gets you high, with the help of a drug and alcohol counsellor plan a taper off codeine. Because it's a short acting opiate, your recovery will be much faster than tapering off a long acting opiate like bupe. And I'm talking months. Expect to feel depressed for a good while, so think about steps to deal with that.

The only way I would reccomend you go on suboxone is if you still feel like you want to get high, are not ready or feel ill eqipped for coming off all that stuff all together. Don't underestimate the help a good councillor or NA may be able to offer. If you're resolved to stop using all together, taper off codeine. In hindsight, I would have done it that way as I was depressed for a year and had withdrawals for weeks coming off sub. Traumatic.

You would be suprised at how easy it seems when you get to the other side. Hot baths, loving family and friends, go easy on yourself. Expect aches, pains, chills, sleeplessness.

The other thing you could consider are norspan patches. Its a bupe patch which lasts a week and will taper you off with barely any WDs.

Good luck, thinking of you and once you're on the other side, you'll kick yourself for being so afraid and not doing it earlier.
 
I haven't heard of norspan, I'll ask my doctor about it tomorrow. I think you guys have pretty mch turned me off suboxone, so I start my detox at home today! I guess what worries me most is the restlessness and lack of sleep, I hate not getting any sleep! It's knda what got me in this mess in the first place.

So, five days and the worst is over huh? Wish me luck!
 
^ Good luck brother. Looks like it might be the best decision you've made this week, the second best joining Bluelight :) pm myself or Mr Blonde if you need more help or advice, or even check out the Dark Side forum if you have the time?
 
I personally think it is right for you.

Will add more on why I think that on my lunch break.

Basiclly it sounds like you're deep in addiction. Doesn't have to be a huge dose...probably 90% of it is mental.

What kind of effects do you get from the 200mg? Is it just at the end of each day that you dose or the beginning? The paracetamol could be very harmful over that period of time, even if you're cold water extracting. Switching up your routine and making your habit 'legal' could help you change more easily. It'll also make you more even and not in and out of semi-withdrawal every single day.

It'd be way better to just stop taking the codeine and suffer through some withdrawals for a little while....but reading your post I'm thinking it's pretty unlikely you'll do this.

Main thing to worry about is what dose you're going to be put on. If your doc insists on giving you 2mg+ daily, you've just taken a massive step back. 0.5mg of bupe per day is plenty for someone with your kind of habit. After a week on .5mg daily you could switch to .5mg every second day and be fine. You won't have withdrawals with that amount...honestly. If anything it'll be a slight increase to the 200mg of codeine.

Your doctor might try and figure out equivalent dosage with a chart, IME these don't work very well...especially when bup is involved.

Bupe is very strong and doctors are educated to go for higher doses, they'll probably be like 'oh don't worry, it's easy to get off' while kind of acting cool suggesting that they have no probs upping your dose for the slightest reason.

Good luck :) I've been on bupe for quite some time, and even though I don't like being on it, I do recognize that it has helped me lead a productive/'happy' life
 
I usually take 100mg at 6pm when I get home from work, and the second 100mg around 8.30pm. If I don't take the second dose I'm up by midnight searching for pills because I can't sleep and I'm starting to feel achy and fluey.

I still plan on going to my bupe appointment tomorrow (in WD like they asked) but I will have some serious questions for the doctor.

I have two neighbors that know about my 'problem' and planned cold turkey and they are willing to help. I really wanna do this, and unless the doctor tomorrow says something REALLY convincing I'll be giving it a bloody good try.

200mg to nothing is do-able guys?

(Oh btw I'm female. No worries fellas)
 
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^ personally I'd say it's definitely do-able. Honestly 200mg isn't a huge amount. The fact that you've been using it for so long is more of a concern, along with the amount of paracetamol you're taking. Whatever your dr is telling you about that can't be healthy: if you're taking panadeine-strength tablets that's ~10g of paracetamol a day, over twice the recommended maximum dose and very toxic to your liver. Going to your appointment and talking to the doctor is a great idea. If you don't go with the suboxone maybe see if you can get a low dose of diazepam or temazepam to help with the withdrawals and insomnia.

Sorry about the gender mix up :S
 
Yeah good advice belarki.

Main concern - paracetamol. Your priority number one should be to stop taking it.

Doctors can be a huge asset when dealing with this kind of thing. Definitely sit down and have a good honest talk. I hope I didn't sound too negative about doctors in my previous post...they will almost always do their best to help you out. It's just important to remember they're human - when they get their training to become a bupe prescriber it's mostly geared towards heroin or much larger doses of painkillers. They'll generally try to give you more than you need (so long as it isn't a dangerous amount) the thought behind that is - better to be generous with dose rather than not give enough and have patient relapse. It makes sense for most opiate addicts but not for people who have been at a stable low-med dose for years like you.

You'll be OK either way I think cornflakes :) You have absolutely nothing to lose by giving cold turkey a go. It's 100% doable. Some people find it easier to jump off opiates suddenly, while they feel the itch to get clean + have the motivation. Don't worry it isn't like in the movie trainspotting. I won't pretend it'll be fun though. Any meds the doctor can give you for relief I would take. (as prescribed :\)

Couple quick tips -

When you start feeling the symptoms of withdrawal you may get slightly panicky and be like 'oh noez not WD :( :(' Try and catch yourself, take a deep breathe, relax your muscles as best you can and ask yourself 'whats the worst thing that could happen?' You'll feel sick for a while, maybe miss some work or study. WD won't kill you or be the end of the world - us long time opiate users tend to have this massive fear of WD that's unrealistic.

If you manage to do the cold turkey method, brilliant that's like 3 gold stars I reckon.

If you end up not being able to go through with it that's ok. Just make sure you organise something with your doctor like a low dose bupe maintenance. If you manage to remove paracetamol from the equation that's 2 gold stars. You can learn new skills while on maintenance and come off that when you're ready.

I'm very tired from working early this morning so hope my advice came out ok. May have repeated a few things and rambled but think that's everything I wanted to say.

Let us know how you go, Ok?
 
us long time opiate users tend to have this massive fear of WD that's unrealistic.
Click to expand...

This is very true, and having an overtly negative mindset will set you up for a worse WD. Of course it's not going to be fun, but keep yourself positive and think of your goals. It will help a lot. :)
 
Not like Trainspotting huh? That made me lol, needed that, things were gettin serious there.

Well it's 6:30pm and my body is saying "right-o, time for daily dose now". Sorry body, sorry brain, but I've gotta hold out on you guys from now on. It's for your own good. Yours too, sanity...

Here we go.
 
Good on you sweetie. It won't be that bad. You won't need buckets. I agree with above. Do not panic. Remember, "what's the worst thing that can happen to you?". If you get restless, get up and do stuff. Mindless work like washing the skirting boards. If you have time off work, perfect. You don't need to be well rested. In two days, you'll fall asleep and it will be beautiful.

I was told that for every year of opiate addiction, expect a month of depression or PAWS (post accute WDs). I found this to be true. I got a psychologist, who was amazing, and I started on an antidepressant. It helps. The reasons you started abusing opiates will resurface too. For me, it's anxiety.

You are getting healthier with each uncomfortable moment. Your brain will start manufacturing required neurotransmitters in no time. But I still think norspan patches are a good solution too. I have a friend who got off a serious morphine addiction with almost no discomfort.

Thinking of you!
 
I'll get clean with you if that will help! I'll start as of now.

Let me know how you are going mate, we'll work through it.
 
Holy crap BLISS, went to bed at 9.30 and have practically SLEPT THROUGH (6.30am now). That has never happened before! Yep, very sweaty but that's no biggie.

Off to the doctor appointment in a few hours, DEFINATELY gonna say no to bupe.

Thanks for your support everyone, I have my eyes on the prize.
 
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