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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

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Eveleivibe said:
I was complaining about the taste of suboxone that's it.
I hadn't gone down from 12 mg to 8 for only 24 hours - it was for 3 days. And I was sick. I do not going making myself sick. I was only wondering if that could have been why was all. It may have been a bug I had. But I do not go making myself sick. I found that a bit offensive when I was only asking if my reducing from suboxone was a possibility of me being sick. All I needed was - no i probably isn't, Evey.

But really I was just complaining about the taste of suboxone when not feeling well.... Was trying to make a joke of it.

I just posted this to give you a response. Can we please move on now?
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Nobody was attacking you. Just trying to help. You need to learn to not take things so personal. Sorry if you feel you were attacked.
 
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Just wanted to relay my 2.5 going on 3 years of experience with Buperenorphine. I take Subutex generics instead of Suboxone, although I did take the 8mg strips for the first 6 months of treatment. I was constantly nauseous, felt this bizarre burning taste/feeling in my mouth/skin throughout the day, would vomit from time to time, get random headaches, not be able to sleep, other days all I would do was sleep.
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This sounds like too much buprenorphine. When I started Suboxone maintenance, I was thrown at a too high dose at the beginning, I believe. It was around 2 months after I quit methadone, I did use morphine and codeine a few times in between, but mostly it was only tramadol prescribed to me as a lighter form of maintenance. Buprenorphine's long half-life makes the dose overlap with the previous day dose, so it's good to saturate your receptors with it, but when I took 4mg for the third time, I got a terrible headache with nausea, although I didn't feel a buzz at all. But then in like 2 weeks I didn't feel 100% well even at 6mg.

Now I'm at 4mg, I increased the dose from 2mg 2 weeks ago and it's still not enough, but I feel ashamed to ask again for an increase. :! I know I shouldn't, because clearly it's because I quit clonazepam recently. I never looked at my opioids doses as being stronger because of benzodiazepines, but now it seems so obvious.
 
So the other day I was at a friends and he was saying that his friend was coming over, and that he was like 6 months clean, with the exception of taking the subutex that he was prescribed.

So the kid came over, and was going on about how he's 6 months clean, while he was crushing up his subutex with xanax and sniffing it all in the same line, which also rolling a joint at the same time. He said that he's prescribed klonopin so therefore taking xanax isn't really 'using' since he's basically prescribed it. He was literally talking about how long he was clean for, and mid sentence he would do a line of the subutex/xanax mixture, and then continue talking about how much better he's doing now that he's clean.

Now I know that people have a different idea of what's clean when it comes to maintenance drugs, and IMO suboxone is a tool that's used in the process of getting clean, but when you're sniffing 20mg a day, running out of your script early due to taking more than prescribed and selling some, then abusing xanax, smoking weed each day and selling that too, that's not even close to being 'clean' and I don't know how this kid could convince himself otherwise.

"I've been clean for 6 months, well if you don't count subutex which is just a partial agonist anyway." Well try kicking that and see how 'partial' the withdrawals are. People like that are basically just putting their opiate addiction on auto-pilot since they get a steady dose of it each day so don't have to worry about that, while their other addictions get worse and worse. I wasn't even close to being as bad as him during parts of my active heroin addiction, and this is the 'clean' him so I would hate to see him when he's 'using.'

I know that was a random story, but after that happened I needed to share that story with someone so figured here would be an alright place.

Animoe said:
So I could be wrong but I'm assuming/calculating that 1mg IV bupe is equal to about 3mg sublingual bupe yes?

If so, if I were to get down to .0833mg IV and jumped off at that point, would it be equal to jumping off at .25mg sublingual?
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It wouldn't really be equal to jumping off at that dose since you would be doing it without the aid of the longer half-life which is obtained by taking it sublingually. So essentially it would be the same as jumping off of a short acting opiate rather than a long acting one, so the withdrawals would be worse than if you had taken it sublingually. Therefore your best bet is to switch to taking it sublingually before jumping off.
 
Yeah I mean.. while it's possible to successfully detox via an IV ROA with bupe... you're seriously hampering yourself right out of the gate. Your chances of success, and the ease of tapering, rise greatly if you switch to SL. So, when giving detox advice for bupe, switching to that ROA is always one of the first pieces of advice I give if the person is currently IV'ing.
 
IV zubsolv feels more like agonist than antagonist, so this applies especially for zubsolv. Something that feels that good CANT be good for helping you taper. IME it makes me want more drugs. Hah. Just words of warning to fellow BLers who are thinking of doing the above with their Zubs.
 
I don't believe that's clean if he's doing that, Tommyboy, it's still very much addict behaviour, in my opinion. Especially if he can't take it as prescribed or how it's meant to. I don't class myself as "clean" for being on suboxone myself. I'm running from my own fears n the inevitable. Still I've no one to blame but myself.

Back on topic subs is a tool agreed but it's so very easy to use it as a hiding mechanism too.
 
Therefore your best bet is to switch to taking it sublingually before jumping off.
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Ziggy stardust said:
Very true...
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I was going to write the same thing. Its just going to make it easier.

Tommyboy said:
So the other day I was at a friends and he was saying that his friend was coming over, and that he was like 6 months clean, with the exception of taking the subutex that he was prescribed.

So the kid came over, and was going on about how he's 6 months clean, while he was crushing up his subutex with xanax and sniffing it all in the same line, which also rolling a joint at the same time. He said that he's prescribed klonopin so therefore taking xanax isn't really 'using' since he's basically prescribed it. He was literally talking about how long he was clean for, and mid sentence he would do a line of the subutex/xanax mixture, and then continue talking about how much better he's doing now that he's clean.

Now I know that people have a different idea of what's clean when it comes to maintenance drugs, and IMO suboxone is a tool that's used in the process of getting clean, but when you're sniffing 20mg a day, running out of your script early due to taking more than prescribed and selling some, then abusing xanax, smoking weed each day and selling that too, that's not even close to being 'clean' and I don't know how this kid could convince himself otherwise.

"I've been clean for 6 months, well if you don't count subutex which is just a partial agonist anyway." Well try kicking that and see how 'partial' the withdrawals are. People like that are basically just putting their opiate addiction on auto-pilot since they get a steady dose of it each day so don't have to worry about that, while their other addictions get worse and worse. I wasn't even close to being as bad as him during parts of my active heroin addiction, and this is the 'clean' him so I would hate to see him when he's 'using.'

I know that was a random story, but after that happened I needed to share that story with someone so figured here would be an alright place.
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Haha, no kidding. Lets try not to confuse being "clean" with having money. Because you no longer are spending it all on dope or painkillers. Sure it makes life a lot more stable to not be spending all your money on dope and focusing all your time on obtaining it. That doesn't make you clean. Honestly you are probably better off with a opiate addiction than a benzo one, except one is easy to afford and the other is almost impossible to financially maintain.
 
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Talked with my key worker n she says I can stay on 12 mg of suboxone until April/May n if I don't want to reduce I don't have to. Oh I'm so very pleased with this news. I can stay on my suboxone script. Was rather worried that they'd make me reduce now :)
 
I've been taking 1mg sublingually every day for the past 10 days. There were one or two days in between where I took somewhere between .2-.5mg. Yesterday I took .5mg. It's been almost 36 hours since my last dose and I feel relatively good, like 75% good

I know due to half life that it could take a little while to start to feel sick so do u think im still feeling the sub considering my low doses?

My history: I use dope IV. I've been clean since sept. but for the past 6 weeks I would get high between once every week-10 days. I'd only use 3-5 bags a day. Occasionally I would use two days in a row but no more often than that

Thanks
 
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Ziggy stardust said:
Hey Capt Heroin! Just want to give you a shoutout for over two months free of sub. Good on ya! I know it's hard..I jumped last April. It gets better month by month. It took me about 4 months to feel 90% better. I have mega respect for those who have battled sub and won. Congrats on being free!
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Thanks. I'm a bit over two months, and I'm feeling 75 to 80 % back to normal.

Still minor PAWS.

Still have PTSD symtpoms too which are worse than the PAWS to be quite honest.

Congrats on being 11 months clean ziggy, that's simply amazing!!!
 
Not something I'd be excited about evel... Your tolerance will continue to skyrocket as a result... God forbid you ever need painkillers for anything because they won't work anymore, at least not the ones that they will be willing to prescribe... 12mg = 4800mg of your DOC prior to treatment... I don't know why you'd do this to yourself, you could've saved those receptors... Oh well to each their own. I can't only blame you though, I blame your doctor for over prescribing as well.

People who used iv heroin, fentanyl, opana, dilaudid, etc... We were fucked anyway, but you... You HAD a chance... Now you're in this shitty boat of tolerance with the rest of us... And you didn't have to be.
 
Guys, I'm starting suboxone, or if I can get it, subutex today for the first time. I'm worried I've already messed up.. I have only just stopped smoking the last bag of H. My appointment is at 10AM, in 4 hours and 15 minutes to discuss it with the medical doctor and get the script.
What's the best dosage for someone using around 1g a day of heroin (mostly smoked, IV'ing 0.3ish a day). I really want subutex instead of suboxone after reading up on both of them. Any advice on how to get it from my doctor?
The last time I can pick the script up is 5PM today. Less than 12 hours... What should I do?!? Is that too soon? Please help me.

Thank you.
 
Kace, chances are you will not get what you want, doctors are very reluctant to prescribe tex. you'll probably get suboxone. I would suggest you ask for Zubsolv as I found it much better than suboxone in every way. Your dose will probably be within the 12-16mg range at first. But everyone's different and honestly you can taper to lower doses of bupe and be just fine. Do not ask specifically for subutex, it'll make you look bad, the dr might think you're looking to shoot your treatment medication. Honestly, the naloxone in subs/zubs doesn't have a chance against bupe, bupe has a much higher affinity for your receptors. You'll need to wait 24hrs before dosing your meds or you will go into the worst withdrawal of your life. You have been warned!

P.S. Seriously though, get Zubsolv instead of suboxone. You'll be so much happier with it.
 
Why will asking for subutex make him look bad? I asked for subutex because I tomd them a friend had been on it for over 4 year n it worked for her. They nicely told me that they don't prescribe it n only prescribe suboxone. It did not make me look bad as my doctor, who is also a psychologist, shook my hand n was very much nice to me. And now I'm on 12 mg of suboxone.
 
I asked and told them I think I get headaches and stiff joints from the naloxone in it. This is semi true, but I've noticed not swallowing the saliva after administering helps with this. I did this with 2 doctors and both seemed very reluctant, so obviously they did not. I think in Massachusetts the law prohibits it being Rx'd to anyone but pregnant women. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the only criteria they have for it.

I would get the Zubsolv too, from what everyone says about it. Seems it has all the advantages people seem to relate to Subutex over Suboxone.
 
Rtrain, if you're talking about subutex I know of a non pregnant male filling a script in august. If the ins u have will not cover suboxone the pharmacy will sometimes give u generic subutex...which was quite cheap mid of last year.

I am in sub withdraw now and everyday feels like the third day of dope withdrawal...never ends.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Also, u can usually send a request to insurance asking for them to cover tex. My insurance and many others mention the guidelines in the packet they send you.
 
^^

Usually it's headaches that people complain about from the naloxone. Even still, some doctors refuse to script anything but suboxone, or now Zubsolv. They wont give subutex or generic bupe. Plenty do though, so it just depends.

A lot of doctors also have deals with the pharm company that makes suboxone, and get kickbacks from exclusively prescribing that. Doctors do that with all types of brand name drugs. If they script you something else, they're making another company money, and reckitt benckiser doesn't like that.
 
Oh it really is pathetic especially as I was only addicted to codeine so never snorted or IVd n really, correct me if I'm wrong, the naloxone is to stop abuse of the drug? I

I am wondering something though is subutex stronger than suboxone with it nnot including naloxone? Reason I'm asking is that a friend was put on subutex, I think 12mg (not sure) but this person told me they were completely tired out for 2 days sleeping etc - yet when I was put onto suboxone I just felt completely normal. I wasn't tired, zonked out, sick, high - nothing, just completely normal.
When I inducted I didn't take it all on one go, I took it throughout the day to stop PW. But I can't understand why my experience was so different unless it concerned the naloxone.
However, I've been told that naloxone isn't active unless I try to inject or whatever, so there are still a few things that confuse me.

But yea I think doctors are a bit strict with disallowing subutex in some cases.

Evey xxxx
 
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