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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

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Ok so the day of reckoning is upon me lol. I'm running extremely low on my suboxone. So low that i have actually divided it all out into very small dose, getting smaller by the day. These doses are very small...like less than .25, but i don't have an exact number. I have about 1 week left. Basically my goal is to get off of this is painlessly as possible. I recently found a new job, and I know that I'm going to to have a very hard time being productive at work in suboxone withdrawal. I pray to god is isn't too bad for me to work, because i haven't been there long and i have a feeling if i ask for time off they will just fire me.

It's messed up, you feel like you have your life back in order...going to school, found a new job, then the dark reminder that you have an ongoing opaite addiction creeps up on you. I knew this day was coming soon, but still, it's almost unreal. I fear so much the pain i know is coming....but i can't keep taking the suboxone. I stopped seeing my doctor LONG ago and have been getting by on the script she gave me like over 6 months ago.

I'm going to see my primary care physician soon and see if there's anything she can do to help make this less painful. I just want to be able to make it through work, and be able to get a small amount of sleep every night.

SO any tips from anyone that has kicked suboxone relatively painlessly? I've heard kratom can be helpful should I check this out?
 
I was able to quit for a while. And kicked it off the aid of suboxone and subutex. I did relapse but I was able to quit for about a year. I don't want that to scare you or make you think it is impossible because I have a few friends who were able to stick with it and still are clean and have met a number of people who have too. But what helped after I weaned off of the bupe was, first(in no particular order) was taking lots of imodium. That is the brand name for an anti-diarrhea medicine that actually has a chemical in it that comes from opiates. The reason you don't feel anything, even if you took 3 boxes, is because it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier. I would take 2-3x the suggested amount to help with stomach cramps and diarrhea. I'm sure it helps with other w/d side-effects because of being derived from opiates or whatever. Kratom helped a little too. Do some research on finding an effective type. The kind I used actually helped in making me feel a little more energetic. It helped relieve some of the cravings too, but not much. So don't just get Kratom in hopes of curing all side-effects and cravings. It won't do that. I know some people bash it, but I just think they were hoping it would eliminate everything like I was saying. But I can admit it was worth using for me. St. John's Wort helped too with energy and my mood. People take it with bupe to intensify it but it helped when I stopped taking the bupe too. I noticed a difference on days when I didn't have it. But SJW is just a herbal mood enhancer you can find at Walgreens, etc. Also try and make yourself eat properly so you can get the nutrients you need or take vitamins and drink lots of water. And just do your best to keep busy and entertained in your down time. That helps a lot. So your not just sitting there, craving and thinking about opiates.

And if you go to your primary care physician for help, like I did, he gave me Ativan to help with sleep and anxiety.

I was able to quit for almost a year. I was back to feeling pretty much normal. And that's when I messed up. I though since I was feeling normal without anything, that I could handle a shot here and a shot there. But nope. So I relapsed for another year and a half. And now have been in mmt for a few months. I just need to work on getting a proper sober support group/system going on before I quit the mmt.

It'll be a rough week to even few weeks depending on how long you were on sub and how much but it sounds like you weaned yourself off a pretty low dose for a long time. So let's hope it won't be too bad. That's all I could think of right now that helped me. If I can remember anything else, I'll let you know. I know how much of a difficult time this probably is for you, so I know it is nice to get all the help you can get.
 
i leave for my trip tmw. i have never done subs but i have about 12 8mgs. i plan to use tmw morning around 8:30am so when would you guys recommend i take my first dose? and i have about a 4 or 5 bags a day habbit. so should i start out with 8mgs. thanks in advance and hope to be ok til saturday....
 
Try just taking 4mgs sublingually. Wait at least about a full hour or more before trying to take extra.

The first time I took sub, I made the mistake of snorting a whole 8mgs, not feeling anything up to 30 minutes later, so I dissolved another whole 8mgs in my mouth. And let me tell you, after about an hour, I was laying in the bathroom for a day and a half because I probably threw up 20 times or seriously probably more. I couldn't eat or go to class or anything for two whole days.

A lot of people who I know and have witnessed this, when they take sub for the first time, it seems not to matter the milligram or how high or low their tolerance is, get sick. Whether it's just nausea or vomiting or both, but it does it's job and even is a little euphoric the first few times or if you have a low tolerance.
 
I quit smoking a week ago and have continued to take my normal 1 mg dose of bupe. I'm aware that quitting smoking lowers the activity of the cytochrome enzyme system. I'm starting to feel high taking the same dose of daily bupe. I'm wondering how to adjust my daily dose so I just feel normal.
 
a little advice from someone that has a very sensitive stomach.. i take low dose gravol 30 minutes before my sub dose.. it is ok to do this long-term..
 
For a 4-5 bag habit i would start at 8mg and move up from there, though It really depends on how pure the dope your were doing was.
 
Here's a suggestion for those of you who really want to quit. After you detox and get on your feet again... Go to an inpatient rehab hospital and do volunteer work. I've been an addict since Vietnam china white era. I was able to be TOTALLY clean for 5 1/2 yrs by going there and helping with their "newcomers group". If you see the destroyed lives coming in right off the street on a regular basis, it will do wonders for your motivation.... plus you will be doing good. I lost my dad, divorced, got fired, and had a kidney stone [morphine drip] all in a 6 mos period and it was to much for me. If I could only go back to my 30's again....
 
I am quite likely getting on bupe pretty soon..Have to speak to my doctor next week about that.

Not for a detox, in my case its for pain relief. I'm already on opioids, along with a fair few other CNS depressants. For occasional use, not daily, just as and when needed, I have a script for chlormethiazole and loprazolam. I take pregabalin for neuropathy also, and tizanidine, the latter is pretty heavily sedating, although I don't really get any sedation from the pregabalin, never noticed any respiratory depression, and I am tolerant to the tizanidine, so I imagine I should be ok with that.

Just how severe does withdrawal have to be from a full agonist opiate (dihydrocodeine at 120mg/d) before taking the first dose of bupe? Its likely to be tablet formulation, no naloxone. DHC isn't that strong, although I have been taking it for quite some time, a fair few years, so is precipitated WD likely if I wait until the very first signs of withdrawal from the DHC befor dosing any buprenorphine, or would I have to wait two days etc. in full-blown WD.

One other thing I'm wondering, is if its safe, from a precipitated WD point of view, to use MXE after having taken a dose of bupe? its an NMDA antagonist obviously, but having IV'ed MXE often enough to have gone through quite a few grams, and found its able to hold me completely without withdrawals from DHC, even if I've taken absolutely no DHC at all, so its quite obviously a full agonist opioid, of not un-respectable potency in its own right.

I'm not too sure either, as to there being much of a significant interaction between most other opiods and 'racetams, in terms of WD...but I do wonder if its possible that racetams that have significant positive allosteric modulator properties for AMPARs or the NMDAr might actually do the opposite of DXM, ket, MXE etc, and increase the development rate of tolerance to opioids... but I am on pramiracetam at the moment, I imagine it would make any respiratory depression much less significant, due to likely effects on AMPA receptor modulation, as other AMPAkines, such as the CX series seem to counter opioid induced respiratory depression.

Respiratory depression on bupe alone doesn't seem significant, but throw in a potent GABAa PAM such as chlormethiazole, or a strong benzo like loprazolam and its likely more significant.

Any advice before I start on bupe, assuming thats what I end up doing? I do hope I do get on it though, despite all the careful planning and titrating etc. that its going to need, the short duration of action of dihydrocodeine is getting on my nerves, as it takes time to kick in after oral dosing and thats a real nuisance seeing as it often wakes me up with WD symptoms, albeit relatively 'mild' compared to what would result from the same happening with a much stronger painkiller with a similarly short duration of action, and seeing as how DHC itself has never really been that effective at dealing with my joint pain in the first place.

One last question-when first dosing bupe, if micron filtered and prepped for IV, can I shoot a couple of units, if a moderate dose is dissolved in a 2ml rig, very slowly, and get in essence, a warning, if taking a full dose by any route, oral, sublingual, nasal, rectal etc would otherwise cause a full on precipitated WD, by WD still happening, but being much, much milder, due to the small dose injected?
 
I don't really know how to rate the intensity of withdrawal at the point which you can dose bupe. I'd start low at whatever point you feel is enough, unless it's been a really long time, like 48 hours since your last DHC dose. Higher doses of bupe take up more receptors, ripping off more of the bound drug as the dose increases. I'd start under 2mg and see how it goes.
 
Thats the main reason I was wondering about dosing first with a very slow IV push, of a micron-filtered solution. The idea being to IV a couple of units from A total of say, 2mg bupe, as a 1mg/1ml solution, and if no withdrawal after a few minutes, very slowly follow it up with a few more, watching for mild signs of WD as I go.

As far as waiting 48 hours post last DHC dose, that seems like way too long, I can taper down on the DHC using chlormethiazole and/or pregabalin and tizanidine until 30mg BD, but never found it doable to get below that, at 30mg BD, after taking the first dose of 30mg I would typically start withdrawing in a few hours.
 
^Yeah, 48 hours is a long time. That's only the point at which I couldn't possibly see PW being an issue. Any time less than this is more dubious is all I was implying. 24-36 hours is more average, but I would feel bad if I said this amount of time and it turned out to be too short.

It sounds like you're at a pretty low dose of DHC, a short acting opiate anyway, so you'll probably be fine well before 48 hours, I just can't say when.
 
.25 mg.'s of Subutex does not touch my chronic pain, let alone 2-4 mg.'s It works well for many people that develop a chronic pain condition & have very low tolerance for strong instant release opiates. I wish that was (my case) I try using 8 mg.'s as a (base) to prevent pain But it only holds it back 50% of the time, then another 8 mg.'s might/might not help. But it is the only opiate that doesnt push tolerance to horrendous levels. It's also a catch 22 in regard that if I take Oxycodone Hcl on top of 16 mg.'s of Subutex to kill the pain, It needs to be 60 mg.'s to help at all. 8-24 mg.'s of Subutex is not unusual for a Doc' to try to treat chronic pain But the formulation is a far reach for (chronic pain) as of yet...
 
alright boys. down to .25mg sub twice a day. i have 1 8mg strip and 4mg. i dont wnt to open the 8mg and probably just give it away or try to trade for some benzos. i currently have 6 2mg xanax which i want to use to get off. anyone have any plan for me to taper? go to .125 for a day or 2? i just started the .25 2 days ago with no discomfort.

i want to get off with the 4mg, so 8 days is what i have. i want to be off prior and i work in a restaurant standing all day working fast. i have partys at work so i cant be C/T that day. tues and weds are off. anyone have any taper plan? im thinking taper as low as i can and take my last dose monday morning to get through work, then go C/T that night and be sick tues and weds. i should also note the xanax effects me at 1 mg but its not that strong and i feel like when im in W/D im gonna need at last 2mg xanax to sleep or not be going crazy.

also have weed and booze. this has been 15 months on suboxone and 5 years of oc/dones/heroin prior with only a few month of 2 breaks in between.

can anyone give advice or a taper plan? also now that ill be off oer coming off would it be worth asking my doctor to prescribe me a 2 weeks supply of longer lasting benzos? or would that be an automatic no with the whole addiction reason im seeing him? it costs me 120 just to go talk to him and im sure hed give me clonodine but really a short supply of benzos could help a lot more.
 
Larson0 said:
alright boys. down to .25mg sub twice a day. i have 1 8mg strip and 4mg. i dont wnt to open the 8mg and probably just give it away or try to trade for some benzos. i currently have 6 2mg xanax which i want to use to get off. anyone have any plan for me to taper? go to .125 for a day or 2? i just started the .25 2 days ago with no discomfort.

i want to get off with the 4mg, so 8 days is what i have. i want to be off prior and i work in a restaurant standing all day working fast. i have partys at work so i cant be C/T that day. tues and weds are off. anyone have any taper plan? im thinking taper as low as i can and take my last dose monday morning to get through work, then go C/T that night and be sick tues and weds. i should also note the xanax effects me at 1 mg but its not that strong and i feel like when im in W/D im gonna need at last 2mg xanax to sleep or not be going crazy.

also have weed and booze. this has been 15 months on suboxone and 5 years of oc/dones/heroin prior with only a few month of 2 breaks in between.

can anyone give advice or a taper plan? also now that ill be off oer coming off would it be worth asking my doctor to prescribe me a 2 weeks supply of longer lasting benzos? or would that be an automatic no with the whole addiction reason im seeing him? it costs me 120 just to go talk to him and im sure hed give me clonodine but really a short supply of benzos could help a lot more.
Click to expand...

Everyone is different when you get this low and what happens next... Tapering from 1/2mg to a 1/4 or less is something you really can't set a time frame with since it's extremely diffcult for some and others do ok with it. The real problem for most who've been on ORT for at least a couple of yrs is going to ZERO subs. With that you need a detailed strategy including a lot of support from non using family/friends and guidance from addiction professional. When you make the final drop you may need to some comfort meds to get your thru the first few weeks.

You can do this if your strong and determined... and you can stay off if you replace drugs with something more important like service, love, and career. As I previously mentioned...during my 5+ yrs of abstinence the thing which helped me more than anything was volunteering once a week at an in patient rehab center. They had a newcomers group which I helped lead. If you want motivation to stay sober... watch people coming [off the street] into rehab on a regular basis. That keeps you focused on whats important and what happens with relapse. NA/AA didn't work for me but that did. Again... the kidney stone/morphine drip did me in... but it didn't have too. I should have never let them hook me up to that shit.

Also find a good woman/man who doesn't fuck with anything. Starting a business also helped keep me busy... try it even if it's a home based business. You'd be surprised how much better it is working for YOU as opposed to making money for someone else.

I once knew a guy who was on 5mg of MMT for about 7-8 moz which amazed all of us. But he must of known what he was doing because he eventually got off.... though he didn't follow up with the clinic so no one knew how he did.

You probably already know the following but I'm going to throw it in anyway...

You need a detailed strategy including a lot of support from non using family/friends and guidance from addiction professional. Get in a therapy support GROUP if you can. When you make the final drop you may need some comfort meds to get your thru the first few weeks.

Here's a quick list to choose from:

CAUTIOUSLY & TEMPORARILY- Benzos - sleep/anxiety
Clonadine- RLS- sleep
Loperimide- Immodium AD
CAUTIOUSLY & TEMPORARILY- Tramadol/Ultram
Soma- Sleep
Neurontin or Gabapentin- RLS
Requip- RLS
Phenegren
Aleve
CAUTIOUSLY & TEMPORARILY-Kratom
Kava Kava
Chicken Soup
Warm Clothes
Hot-tub/Hot baths
Ensure/Gatorade/water
exercise

ANTI-ANXIETY

* Mulungu. Erythrina

* Kava Kava root.

* Phenibut & Theanine & alcohol

* Valerian root.

* Passion flower.

* Hydroxyzine simply for the slight sedation it induces.

* Sominex-diphenhydramine

SLEEPING MEDS:
Seroquel
CAUTIOUSLY & TEMPORARILY-Ambien
Risperdal
Trazadone
Sominex
Warm Milk
=================

Valerian Root - Great for sleep. This stuff smells really bad... but doesn't taste that bad. Don't over-do it, could have reverse effect and keep you up.. About 1 teaspoon of powdered herb or 2 tsp of ground (use a coffee grinder, works geat!)

Kava (Kava-Kava)- herbal "valium"
try to get the powdered form. About 1 TABLESPOON in boiling water... stir it up, let sit.. do it like "shooter". Works fast. be careful, this stuff is strong.

St. Johns Wort - About 1 TBL to start. Do it 2x day. Will help you rest and does wonders for the mental crap too.
===================


1) Imodium AD - and get the SYRUP - you can also get the pills or gel-caps as they will come in handy later.. you can get the generic shit too, just make sure that the ONLY active drug is loperamide hcl .. get a big bottle, hell, get 3 or 4 .. and no, it doesn't have a "pleasant cherry taste"

2) Fruit juice - carbonated beverages won't do ya a lot of good... I have done this many times, and I find some apple juice to be the drink of choice ..

3) Aleve (or generic - you want naproxen sodium) .. this will help with the muscle aches and pains ..

4) Sominex (or generic - you want diphenhydramine).. this is an OTC sleep aide that *WILL* knock you out! Now if you have benzos or some other type of tranqualizer, thats better as they have other properties that we desire - but still, pick some of this up because without it you will just toss and turn all night...

5) Soup - whatever you like, it taste the same comming up ..

Good Luck
 
Ok so tommarow will be my last day dosing suboxone, and it will be a very small dose at that. The anxiety is killing me more than anything else right now, plus the fact that i've been taking tiny sub doses the past week or so, so I'm already kind of in mild withdrawal. I've been thinking of buying some kratom to help ease withdrawals, not to take everyday, but just for work. I haven't requested any time off and I'm going to have to work next weekend. I was just wondering if anyone has experience with the different kratom strains and which ones seem to be most effective in helping ease withdrawal symptoms.

I really don't have anything else to help me get through this. I'm going to see my primary care doc soon, but i find it doubtful i will actually receive any real help. Doctors don't like writing ANY prescriptions for addicts in my experience i usually get a "suck it up and go home" I do have *A* 7.5mg hydrocodone pill. Since i tapered down to less than .25mg of bupe it MAY come of use. maybe, we'll see.
 
well lucky me 2 of my 6 xanax bars melted in my pocket at work today so now i have 4 left. i dropped to .125 or even less tonight. i think its about .08mg. i really want to go to my doctor and ask him to just give me a 20 day script of valium but he is actually a good doctor and dont know if he will do it. he wouldn't give me ambien or lexapro for sleep because they were in the same class as benzos while i was on sub.

im not gonna be able to do it without some meds. i gave away my last full suboxone today so now i have about 5 mg left. im more worried about how long the withdrawal is going to last, plus this is probably the 8th time i've gone through complete withdrawal so i know it will be worse.

tomorrow i may drop the dose again and try to schedule a doc appt. then tues and weds i have off from work. im worried i might sweat it out tues/weds and then be in hell for the next 5 days i have work. only shitty thing is that appt is 120 a pop and then money for the script and i dont even know if he will give me a benzo script.

i dunno. i am just nervous about this. i took a full xanax bar 2 hours ago and it didnt even touch me. i just want to be done being a slave to something that is fucking up my life and not even getting me high.

maybe that bar did mess me up a little because i feel like i just rambled this post out. 8 days from now i should be dopesick or coming back to sober after 6 years of addiction. wish me luck guys i really need it. i also have a loving girlfriend hwo doesn't do any drugs but she doesn't understand what ill be going through
 
2 nights ago I went out partying until 7 am (only drinking). Yesterday, I went to work for the first time in 2 weeks as the result of an injury to my achilles tendon. While working, the pain got so bad that when a friend offered me a tiny strip of something and said 'put it under your tongue,' I barely even blinked before doing so. He later told me it was suboxone. Well, an hour later, I felt like I was drunk, then extreme nausea kicked in and I vomited 5 or 6 times last night. I had taken 600mg's or ibuprofen some hours before the suboxone, and had gotten extremely drunk the night before (and had eaten little yesterday). Does it sound like I put my health in serious danger last night, or does this sound somewhat normal?
 
Oh ROXIanne! said:
Also it seems that since I've started taking suboxone daily I've been experiencing small myclonic jerks here and there. They are most prevalent when Im drifting off to sleep, is this a common side effect of bupe?
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This happened to me when I snorted some sub after not being on it for a long while. It doesn't seem to happen if I take it under the tongue, or if I'm trying to go to sleep hours after I take it, which is normally the case.

The time it happened really bad, I was exhausted and trying to take a nap, but I also had just snorted some sub and I was twitching like a bastard lying there lol

I'm glad I am not the only one
 
Changed said:
2 nights ago I went out partying until 7 am (only drinking). Yesterday, I went to work for the first time in 2 weeks as the result of an injury to my achilles tendon. While working, the pain got so bad that when a friend offered me a tiny strip of something and said 'put it under your tongue,' I barely even blinked before doing so. He later told me it was suboxone. Well, an hour later, I felt like I was drunk, then extreme nausea kicked in and I vomited 5 or 6 times last night. I had taken 600mg's or ibuprofen some hours before the suboxone, and had gotten extremely drunk the night before (and had eaten little yesterday). Does it sound like I put my health in serious danger last night, or does this sound somewhat normal?
Click to expand...

That depends -- are you completely opiate naive? Was it a 2 mg strip or 8 mg?

Either way, that was a pretty dumb move by your coworker to give you that. Suboxone shouldn't be used for analgesia especially in a high dose in an opiate naive person
 
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