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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

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^ (@lolitaofott) 3mg is not that small of a dose. What I'm not understanding is why you'd want to increase your dose if you're having severe nausea already? This tells me you should probably be lowering your dose. Most people find the effects of bupe to be most enjoyable in the 2mg or less range anyway.

There's no telling exactly how long you'll have to wait... It will probably be somewhere in the 24-36 hour range for some effects, longer for full effects.
 
Pegasus said:
^3mg is not that small of a dose. What I'm not understanding is why you'd want to increase your dose if you're having severe nausea already? This tells me you should probably be lowering your dose.

There's no telling exactly how long you'll have to wait... It will probably be somewhere in the 24-36 hour range for some effects, longer for full effects.
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no nausea at 3 mg... I do at 4.. so I'm letting my body get used to 3 before I go up... problem is that I'm still getting cravings (apparently you aren't supposed to when ur taking sub)

ALSO: I heard that if you just use a lot of oxycontin you WILL get high if you're taking 4mg or less (after 24hrs)... however..it seems doing this would be risky..

a guy I know would take 200 mg of oxy while on subs and would get fucked up.... but I would never do this.. cuz I`m not reckless like he is..
 
^There is definitely a risk to trying to jump over your bupe dose. I'd just wait it out and dose in a day or two.

If you really want to get rid of cravings while using bupe, I'd use smaller doses and take nasally. It seems to control cravings much better that way IMO/ ITOOM. I hate to recommend snorting anything, but you can make a nasal spray pretty easily.
 
I can't snort.. the pharmacist watches me take it every day.. sadly... You don't think that 4-6mg would be perfect for cravings.. it seems like its a perfect dose.. not too much (I know people who take 16 mg!!!) and its not too little.. I just want to STOP thinking about oxys... I wish I wasn't planning on using it again.. can sub make these thoughts go away??

also.. after waiting a couple of days and using oxys... how long should one wait before starting the suboxone again?
 
I've been on suboxone for 2 years now steady and I've found a pretty good way of getting wrecked when I want to do some opiates. I used to try taking an oxy after waiting like 30 hours after my last dose of sub. This would only leed to me being really tired with no euphoria at all.
Now I've found the best connect ever 100mcg/h fentanyl patches cheap too. I can even take my 4mg sub dose in the morning grab a couple patches at lunch time slap one on and suck the gel outta the other. Within 20 minutes I'm itchy,nodding, and just flat out jammed. Since I threw a patch on this lasts for 3 days non stop. Also love to grab a nice size gem and fill up my straight shooter.
After the 3 days of wearing the patch I suck the leftover gel out and get good and ripped for the rest of that 3rd day. This usually is long enough of a little bender to get this desire outta my system and is great.
I know that the only reason I'm getting high is bc the fentanyl is way stronger than the bupe. There's one huge problem though everytime I've gone to switch back to my subs I've gone into precipitated withdrawals ( PW ). I'd never even heard of PW until the first time it happened about 6 months ago and it was a nightmare.
That first time I had only waited like 12 hours after crashing from the patch so I understood why it happened. But I sucked it up that time and road the PW's out the 4 days and it was hell. The next time through 1 of my fent benders I waited 36 hours to dose my sub. This was at like 11 at night and I was withdrawing big time. Had fell asleep with a quarter of sub under my tongue and woke at 11:45 with my head whistling and in even worse PW's than before. I had to wait all night and wait to score a patch in the am just to get rid of the PW's. Stayed on the patch for an extra 3days and was ready to go back on the subs so I took the patch out saved it to smoke the gel at another time. I decided to wait like 48 hours to dose my sub. Within the 24 hours I was withdrawing and it was killing me to know I had my subs but they wouldn't help but I rode it out to the 48 hour mark and was in the full throws of withdrawal. It just so happened I was at work at sea at the time I figured I was set and waited plenty long. Snorted a quarter of a sub and sure enough within ten minutes I was in the worst mind fuck of PW's ever. Nothing I could do at all rode it out for the 4 days again.
I guess to finally get to the point I'm feelin the urge of one of my fent benders coming on. What's goin on with the PW's? Am I doin somethin wrong? Has my brain chemistry changed from being on sub so long? Any help out there and sorry this was so long but I thought some bacground might help with some answers. I'm not a novice opiate user I've been doin them for 19 years and have had a really high tolerance for years.
 
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^ you might wanna clean that post up a bit.. like in paragraphs, sentences and make it easier to read because most will just pass over a wall of text like that, just like i did, so if you were asking a question, how you present your post *can* effect how fast you get a reply.

Sorry if this sounds like preaching, im just trying to help you out for the future also.
It's all good %)
 
BlueberryfishY said:
Does anyone here that's on Suboxone feel that they need a cig constantly?

I can't stop smoking and it's really getting to me, i want to quit cigs anyway.
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Nicotine and the other active ingredients in cigarettes (MAOI's) potentiate the effects of buprenorphine and other full agonist opiates. It also specifically increases the analgesia associated with buprenorphine.

The best advice I have for you: Go to the doctor and ask for chantix. Try it out. Make sure to be aware of the horrible side effects (bizarre nightmares/dreams, suicidality, depression beyond what you would feel in regular nicotine withdrawal) - there are more side effects, but you should be fine because not everyone has those side effects.

Varenicline is a partial agonist, much like how buprenorphine is a partial agonist for the mu opioid receptor (the receptors responsible for the psychological and physical addiction to opiates would be the mu subtype 2 and mu subtype 1 receptors), varenicline (brand name Chantix) is a partial agonist for the α 4 β 2 subtype nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. Due to its weak effect, it doesn't strongly increase the downstream release of dopamine.

Due to its competitive binding on these receptors, varenicline blocks the ability of nicotine to bind and stimulate the mesolimbic dopamine system, akin to the action of buprenorphine in the treatment of opioid addiction. [10]
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If you are scared by the side effects, I might suggest you try getting a prescription (or better yet, simple, legal plants containing said alkaloids) for scopolamine. I would keep going on and on about this but it isn't entirely foolproof and will be a horrible backfire if used too heavily.

You could also try snuff, which is powderized, snortable tobacco. It isn't great for you but it isn't as reinforcing as smoking a cigarette (from what I have seen in others - I hate tobacco myself and am entirely happy as a non-smoker).

Camel is also coming out with a dissolvable form of tobacco - but currently only in select cities.

Snus is unfortunately dosed way too high per pouch - most users will be nauseated at first - even if you are used to smoking. However, it has some fans who have quit using it, I have read posts about many people who have quit within a month or so of switching to snus.

My personal opinion is that it is better to quit tobacco while you still can. If you have mental issues, it might be wise to get help while you quit. I am not implying you do though, I have just witnessed someone go out of their mind for a long time (days) due to tobacco withdrawal. They have bipolar disorder (rapidly changing moods) - and I theorize the MAOI effects were some form of an antidepressant, because even going through a day with just 1 to 4 cigarettes, they wouldn't have issues whereas with zero cigs and no nicotine for a long time, they are not OK.

So yeah, I just wanted to say that because sometimes people don't realize what they are up against. A psychological infatuation with tobacco is much worse; I used to know this girl who would, every day without doubt, smoke 2+ packs a day. They never bought one pack, it was always 2+. Every morning they woke up they would chain smoke 4 cigarettes back to back. Every time they walked outside they would chain smoke. Every time they got in the car, they would chain smoke. I remember the first time they tried to quit (that I knew of and witnessed) they caved in before 2 hours was up.

My point being, if you want to quit, and you can and will put in the effort, research, etc. - then I have no doubt in my mind you can do it.

From a psychological perspective, you should focus on eliminating triggering phenomena, such as throwing away all your ash trays, any paraphanilia (empty packs of cigs lying around, empty cartons, cig coupons, cig butts, the smell of smoke in your car/house, etc.) As well you should avoid places and situations where you will see people smoking or where you have smoked in the past. With all addictions, the brain creates a very heavy link between the drug experience and the environment, creating environnmental tolerance over time (evidenced by piles of cig butts by people's driveways, and so on).

Most importantly, stay motivated towards all of the positive things you will gain out of quitting smoking: less stress/anxiety (constantly coming down off of nicotine creates anxiety, especially for people who smoke over a half pack a day), greater lung capacity, being able to do cardiovascular activities (running, jogging, swimming, sex, etc) more efficiently, a greater sense of taste, more money, and overall a much lower likelihood of developing a plethora of life debilitating/threatening diseases such as emphasema, lung cancer (many other types of cancer as well, 90% of the cancer risk from tobacco is due to radioactive fertilizers most major brands use), and so on. Most importantly, you will have the potential to live a longer life. :)
 
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Simple enough question, but one which doesnt looks like its been covered elsewhere:After a few months of sub maintenance what would your average junkie's short acting opie tolerance be? Given that bupe is a partial agonist, I would assume that your bupe tolerance wont be equivalent to say a morphine tolerance
 
Why

When i inject 2.4mg of subutex i get as high as a dose of heroin?

When i inject 1.2mg of subutex, i feel it, but not properly high?

When inject any quantitys, large or small, of suboxone, i get protection from withdrawals and elevated mood, but no high at all?

I get 1* 8 mg tab of suboxone, and, 3* 0.4 of subutex a day. Been on it for um cant remember, i have memory problems.

I think the naloxone prevents me from getting properly high, what other explanations for my observations?
 
^ try putting cigs out half way and saving em. That's what i do. It saves me a lot of money in the long run. It works for me, I don't need an entire cigarette every time i go out to smoke. Buy 100's, get more bang for your buck
 
^^ that's what I do too is buy hundreds and I buy cartons from an indian reservation. But def put it out halfway each time and you will be golden cause honestly I used to force myself to smoke the whole cig when I would smoke one so I wasn't wastijg it then I started just putting them out and now I barely smoke a half a pack a day unless I am sniffing dope then I smoke a lot more
 
Antecessor said:
When i inject 2.4mg of subutex i get as high as a dose of heroin?

When i inject 1.2mg of subutex, i feel it, but not properly high?

When inject any quantitys, large or small, of suboxone, i get protection from withdrawals and elevated mood, but no high at all?

I get 1* 8 mg tab of suboxone, and, 3* 0.4 of subutex a day. Been on it for um cant remember, i have memory problems.

I think the naloxone prevents me from getting properly high, what other explanations for my observations?
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I don't notice a difference. It's pretty much established that the naloxone doesn't really do squat, since bupe has a higher affinity for the receptors than it. I've shot suboxone and felt the effects before, but if you're opiate tolerant bupe just isn't going to get you a good high.

I don't get why you are on suboxone AND subutex...that doesn't make any sense. Essentially they are the same drug (suboxone is just subutex with naloxone)
 
Hi, Can someone please answer me a question!! I'm freaking out!! I have my first sub appointment tomorrow with a new dr. tomorrow. I have mostly detoxted but last night i was feeling crappy and a friend gave me a few vicodins to help with my h withdrawl as was also on klonapin but finished that yesterday. My question is will the doc still rx me the sub? the last dr I went to would not rx it unless the drug test was neg for opiates! Anyone please have answers, I get paid tomorrow and dont want to go to the west side!!! but I dont want to pay $150 to not get the sub. I need to be clean for myself and son! Help please!
 
I been off subs for 2 months, and I still cant get out of bed and its day 62. wtf? i go to gym 4-5 days out of 7 and do 5 miles on a bike there. than i get some food and go back to bed. i get road rage fast soon as someone tailgates me close. i stopped smoking, and drink less. I take b12 and magnesium for few weeks now. mentally i want to do stuff like working and arrends but my body just wont follow suit after my mind. any advice how to jump start the day?? thx
 
To the poster at the top of the page who is going on Fent benders:

I had a huge problem with this when I first started Sub. I was on Methadone and at the time I had access to a lot of stuff so I just quit the clinic two weeks before my appointment with the sub Dr. I used Oxy, H and a bunch of 100mcg fent gel patches to get through to my appointment.

Well 48 hours before my appt I smoked my last bit of fent and took off the patch I had been wearing since the day before. I went in to my Dr appointment feeling fairly sick told the Dr that I had not used for 48 hours and he gave me a 2mg Suboxone as we started what was supposed to be roughly an hour long intake appointment.

Within 15min the shit hit the fan!!! Almost literally (I HAD to excuse myself to the bathroom because PW had almost made me loose control…).

Anyway the Dr. at first was a little annoyed and kind of was like “well this is what you get for lying to me about the last time you used”, but then he started questioning me about my last use.

He wanted to know EXACTLY what, how and quantity. When I told him about wearing the fent patch two days prior he instantly had a change in attitude and explained to me what was going on.

According to him, and I guess some other stuff I have read recently here on BL, just because fent itself has a fairly short half life, does not mean that the fent actually leaves your body that quickly when WEARING the patches.

Basically the Dr explained that the patches use a two fold system to slowly release the drug into your body over two TO three days.

First off they are designed to control the amount of drug that releases into your skin.

THEN, since, fent is so soluble in fat, the drug settles into your subcutaneous fat and is slowly released into the blood from there.

The Dr. then went on to explain that this is why some people need a new patch every two days when they are supposed to last three. He said that body type, location patch is placed, and other variables play a huge role in the speed of elimination making it VERY hard to know how long the drug will be present in the body.

He then went on to ask me about 20 times how long I had been WEARING the patches. I assured him that it was only for about 24 hours, 48+ hours ago. He wanted to make sure I had not been wearing them for an extended period of time because I guess long time patch users can test positive for the drug many days and even weeks after the last patch has been removed.

The PW’s were hell and he could see I was very uncomfortable so he let me leave the appt early with a Lorazepam script and weeks worth of Subutex.

His instructions were “go home and do what you have to do to make yourself comfortable, but DO NOT put another patch on!!!” He basically sent me on my way and said “do your best to abstain as long as you can then try the Subutex, hopefully a week from now at your next appt you will be starting to get stabilized.”

I spent the hour drive home flipping the fuck out and jumping around in my mom’s car, dropped the scripts off at the pharmacy and went home. I banged a bag or two of really good dope then an Oxy 80, snorted an Opana IR 10, then proceeded to smoke a good bit of a patch, just to get myself feeling better.

I did my best to use lightly for the next few days, completely avoiding the fent, went a little less than two days with nothing and started the Subutex. I didn’t feel great, but it didn’t put me in precipitated withdrawals. By the time I saw my Dr. again (I had to change my week appt to almost two weeks) I was doing well on the Subutex and he switched me to Suboxone.

Anyway the whole point of my long story (sorry) is that wearing the patches deposits the drug in your fat where it is slowly released making it hard to know when it is safe to take buperenorphine. Maybe you could try just eating or smoking the gel and avoid wearing the patch and maybe this will help you transition back to your sub better.

Also keep in mind that when going on a binge like this for days the levels of bupe in your body drop drastically and it can take a few days to get back to feeling normal.

I want to point out here that this is just my experience with the patches and buprenorphine along with what a doctor told me. I do not have any actual references to back up what I experienced or what the Dr. said about the way the patches work.

Thanks for reading…
 
OEandricearoni said:
^ try putting cigs out half way and saving em. That's what i do. It saves me a lot of money in the long run. It works for me, I don't need an entire cigarette every time i go out to smoke. Buy 100's, get more bang for your buck
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I wish I could put it out after half. The biggest problem is my work. I work on an offshore fishing boat and it's not like I only get an alotted amount of breaks either. I tend to smoke tons more at sea especially since we dont have to pay the taxes on the cigarettes before we leave. So we get name brand cartons for $20. Plus the long hours we work on deck too. I probably hit the 4 pack a day mark at sea.
 
@ONandOFF777 thanx for that my Dr. doesn't know that I've been taking these benders cuz I don't have to take urines anymore. I actually had to go to 1 of my appointments with him while I was in precipitated withdrawals and he kept asking if I was alright. It wasn't like I wanted to tell him what was going on bc I woulda gone right back to having to see him weekly instead of every 2 months and I woulda had to start taking urine screens again.

I believe you may be correct about eating the gel though. When I first started getting the patches I didn't think putting them on would do anything bc of the suboxone. So I would suck the gel out and transition back to the sub fine when I was ready.

As far as smoking the fent I've never gotten anything outta that. Unless there's a better process than what I've done.Thanx again also thanx for taking the time to read that mega post.
 
If you have not done it before then I am not going to suggest you try.

Its not safe and is extremely addictive and since your are already straying from your bupe program I don’t think that it would be a good idea to give you any info that would make it better and easier to abuse such a potent drug.

The info is out there/here so it’s not like you can’t find it with very little effort, I am just not going to go there in this thread.

Otherwise hope my post helps you in your transitions, but now that I think about it, maybe I should have just not said anything because I am guessing the pain of switching back to your Suboxone was keeping your binges to a minimum. Now that you know how to transition better, I really hope you don’t get out of control.

I can tell you that it is all too easy to go from using bupe as a maintenance drug and only using dope on occasion, to maintaining a dope habit by bridging the gaps with your bupe script.

Your on a slippery fucking slope with grease on your shoes my friend, especially with access to 100mcg Fent gel patches!!!!!

Good luck
 
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