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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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A person gets "high" from opiates/opiods to do agonist activity primarily at the mu recp. If a person has no tolerance I.e. Non dependent taking a full or partial agonist will stimulate their recps past their baseline and they will notice a increase in mu activity. They are high. Regardless of affinities, kinetics, low, medium efficacys, partial, full agonism this person percieves a increase of mu stimulation and because high.

Now, if this person has increased their baseline(tolerance) with everyday usage of full agonists and they take a partial agonist that has a higher affinity for the mu recp also having a lower efficacy being a partial agonist this person will perceive a net decrease in mu stimulation and will go below their self imposed baseline and this will be felt as perc withdrawals. Because he/she is dependent on full agonist stimulation taking bupe ANTangonizes the full agonist and replaces itself on the mu rec being a partial agonist there is a net decrease in stimulation.
 
StartedHydro said:
A person gets "high" from opiates/opiods to do agonist activity primarily at the mu recp. If a person has no tolerance I.e. Non dependent taking a full or partial agonist will stimulate their recps past their baseline and they will notice a increase in mu activity. They are high. Regardless of affinities, kinetics, low, medium efficacys, partial, full agonism this person percieves a increase of mu stimulation and because high.

Now, if this person has increased their baseline(tolerance) with everyday usage of full agonists and they take a partial agonist that has a higher affinity for the mu recp also having a lower efficacy being a partial agonist this person will perceive a net decrease in mu stimulation and will go below their self imposed baseline and this will be felt as perc withdrawals. Because he/she is dependent on full agonist stimulation taking bupe ANTangonizes the full agonist and replaces itself on the mu rec being a partial agonist there is a net decrease in stimulation.
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Ok i kinda see what you're getting at, but the only thing that that would mean is that a dependent person would experience PWD's more severe than a non-dependent person (which makes sense, but i don't know if thats the case), but dependent or not it doesn't change the fact that taking bupe with a full agonist in your system would cause a fast chemical change by the displacement of the full agonist with a partial. I mean its obvious that you understand how PWD's work, but as i said other than dependence playing a part in severity of withdrawals i don't see how it matters.

Who knows, i could be totally wrong, but i've never heard that you need to be dependent in order to get PWD's. So i'm just going to rest my case until somebody else chimes in because at this point i feel like i'm just beating a dead horse, lol.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that the only reason i'm arguing about this so much is because if somebody who doesn't know anything about this stuff comes in here and reads what you've said and thinks "oh i guess it'll be ok" and goes through with it they could be in for a shitty time, and like JB said its not worth the risk either way.
 
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Yes!!! Dependent or not has everything to do with bupe and he/she's perception(effects bupe has) in relation to them.

If you are non-dependent going from partial stimulation to full stimulation or vice versa going from full stimulation to partial stimulation will result in a net increase of receptor activation. To this person bupe is very much like a full agonist in relation to true full agonist's. That is due to this persons non-dependence.

Once this non dependent person who took the full agonist.... Say he does not take anything else that night or rest of the week. When all the full agonist exits his body is he in withdrawals? No, he is at baseline, normal. So if he took bupe after oxy... Once the bupe takes over he is still high because he is ABOVE his baseline tolerance, their is a perceived positive effect.

Same senecio but this time he is dependent on 80 mg of oxy a full agonist. He needs 80 mg a day of oxy to feel normal. If he takes 80 mg of oxy and then 30 minutes later takes bupe, bupe takes over displaces the oxy and since it partially agonizes the rec, to this guy there is a NET DECREASE in recp stimulation and he percieves feelings of withdrawals due to the partial activation.

That is why they ask anyone dependent on full agonist to already be in withdrawal before your fisrst dose. Because in this case while being in withdrawals if you take a partial agonist in now causes a net increase in stimulation causing withdrawals to subside but since it's only partially agonizing the rec and due to tolerance to full agonist there is no high.
 
StartedHydro said:
Yes!!! Dependent or not has everything to do with bupe and he/she's perception(effects bupe has) in relation to them.
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Source please... with regards to PWD's opiate naive vs tolerant?

What you say seems to make sense but bupe is a unique drug and affects individuals in many different ways. I'd like to see what the "expert" position is on this. Mainly because it's always best to error on the side of caution. That being said, I doubt the guy would get WD sick [taking 8mg subs] 4 hrs after 20mg percs... but theres a decent chance he'd get a headache, sweating, nausea, vomiting... etc from taking too much [8mg] as an opiate naive person
 
Started Hydro once again you are mistaken....my posts earlier explain everything that needs to be said in response to what you are saying. If you choose to disagree than thats your choice but please do not spread false information as it could have a negetave effect on someone. I do not want to be rude at all I just want the correct information out there.

Once again, I know from personal experience that you dont need to be opiate dependant to experience PW's. It has happened to me when I was clearly not opiate dependant. Not only that, but thats just how PW's work.

The pain from PW's does not come from the opiates being ripped off your receptors causing you to go back to "your" baseline, and in the case of a non opiate dependant person, baseline would be feeling normal. The pain from PW's actually comes from the opiates being ripped off of your receptors causing a sharp decrease in the release of serotonin(feel good chemicals) in your brain, causing you to feel extreme pain.(or sometimes not so extreme, it depends on the situation)....its NOT because you all of a sudden are "back to baseline", which in an addict, would be withdrawals.

Theres a difference in regular withdrawals and PW's....they even feel different. But what your saying StartedHydro is that they are the same basically...because your saying that an addict gets PW's from the opiates getting ripped off the receptors putting them to where they were before they took the opiates, which is regular withdrawal.....but thats not what causes the PW's...once again, its the fact that there is an immediate drop in the serotnin levels in your brain that causes PW's....not the fact that your brain is back to where it was before you took the opiates. Its complicated and hard to type and hard to understand...I can see where one would get confused.

Please do a little more research on the subject to figure out exactly whats going on inside your brain when you take that suboxone. The more you know the better.

If you have any more questions just let me know, ill be glad to help.
 
The pain from PW's actually comes from the opiates being ripped off of your receptors causing a sharp decrease in the release of serotonin(feel good chemicals) in your brain, causing you to feel extreme pain.(or sometimes not so extreme, it depends on the situation)....its NOT because you all of a sudden are "back to baseline", which in an addict, would be withdrawals.


Site your source please?

In fact, in high doses and under certain circumstances, buprenorphine can actually block the effects of full opioid agonists and can precipitate withdrawal symptoms if administered to an opioid-addicted individual while a full agonist is in the bloodstream.

http://buprenorphine.samhsa.gov/about.html

PW will occur if admined to a person addicted to full agonist's.

For first hand accounts... I have 5 friends who enjoy opiates. 2 of the 5 enjoyed them so much they aquired dependency the other 3 use a lot less maybe one a month. I can not count on one hand how many times we started the night off with a few OCs and a few hours later the 3 who we not ADDICTED could take bupe that same night and HAVE ZERO negative effects and in fact would actually perk them up, give them great energy, they would be EXTREMELY chatty once again.
 
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I do agree though that the PW's in someone who is not opiate dependent will be MUCH less severe than someone who is dependant....but the PW's with be there nonetheless. And just because they are not as extreme does not mean they shoul be classified as something other than PW's....they still are PW's, just much easier to deal with.
 
Yep, I am quite familiar with that reading. It makes no mention of PW in a non addicted person.

If you are a non addicted person bupe will not cause PW.

I never made any mention about it being less in a non addicted person.
 
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It's even mentioned in the Bupe megathread on the first page and one of the first quotes. That is can cause PW in addicted indiv's.
 
Do not take 8mg of sub if u can get a buzz off 20mgs.

I used 30mgs daily for 3 years and get a buzz off like .5mgs of bupe

dont dont dont dont dont.

Ur friend is a fucktard.
 
I can add some anecdotal evidence to support StartedHydro. I just got off the phone with a friend who uses oxycodone infrequently. Absolutely opiate naive. His DOC is alcohol with pot/. I gave him some subs awhile back to pay off a debt. I asked him if he ever used the subs after using the oxys and his answer was yes. He's taken them both with and after oxy use and said he's had no sickness whatsoever. He couldn't recall amounts of each but this tends to backup hydros claim.

Anyway... neither side cited a specific source with quotations to back up their position... which leads me to believe the truth lies with the individual. Bupe is one drug which isn't good to make generalized statements unless there is absolute proof thru research one way or the other... and that isn't always reliable due to the propaganda influenced by govt. Most bupe dr's are inconsistant in what they tell their patients. One example is... they [and drug companies too] claim subs/naloxone will initiate WD's thru IV use which obviously isn't true for many users.... especially at low dose.

The only person at BL who I totally trust [opinion & knowledge] with regards to truth about drugs... is CaptainHeroin... perhaps he'll chime in for the final word.
 
howdy. ive been concentrating my efforts into the lyrica mega thread, but this is the other thread that applies to me as those are the two medications i take.

for anyone taking buprenorphine in any form, any ROA. pregabalin POTENTIATES THE SHIIIT out of it. its almost like shooting heroin again at times. ive cut down and it just feels so much better. i wake up, take 150mg of lyrica and a tiny shot of bupe (.3mg). about 1.5 hrs later i feel LOVLEY. so clear, so calm, yet with energy to conquer the day. it is amazing.

i HIGHLY suggest that anyone with anxiety issues check out lyrica, it way better than benzos. anyway, i just wanted to let you all know that i get a rush from shooting subs now that im on lyrica. its crazy, like when i first started taking it. very thankful, to say the least. peace.
 
So today I did a .5mg shot after a couple days with no other opioids except maybe some spent fent patches I still had stuck on. Didn't really feel much which wouldn't have been an issue except I was presented with the opportunity to get some h, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone. I did one h shot and really didn't feel much of anything, then did 12mg dillaudid and got a mediocre rush but no lasting high or anything close to nodding. I did 8mg more and stopped since I really don't want to waste my supply.

So I'm thinking the culprit was the .5mg bupe on my receptors. I remember back when I was a full blown addict I could shoot through a few mg's and not feel much of a difference. What are other people's experiences.

homeydontplaythat said:
howdy. ive been concentrating my efforts into the lyrica mega thread, but this is the other thread that applies to me as those are the two medications i take.

for anyone taking buprenorphine in any form, any ROA. pregabalin POTENTIATES THE SHIIIT out of it. its almost like shooting heroin again at times. ive cut down and it just feels so much better. i wake up, take 150mg of lyrica and a tiny shot of bupe (.3mg). about 1.5 hrs later i feel LOVLEY. so clear, so calm, yet with energy to conquer the day. it is amazing.

i HIGHLY suggest that anyone with anxiety issues check out lyrica, it way better than benzos. anyway, i just wanted to let you all know that i get a rush from shooting subs now that im on lyrica. its crazy, like when i first started taking it. very thankful, to say the least. peace.
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Very interesting, I just took 300mg to see if it helps with my tolerance issues. :o
 
I can do 2 stamp bags of quality dope and push thru the bupe if i take a .5mg shot of sub at like 10 am and do the dope around 5 p.m and get high from it.. I find it's always diminished tho, esp the rush unless I wait over 24 hours.
 
Georgie25 said:
I can do 2 stamp bags of quality dope and push thru the bupe if i take a .5mg shot of sub at like 10 am and do the dope around 5 p.m and get high from it.. I find it's always diminished tho, esp the rush unless I wait over 24 hours.
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Thanks for the info, I'm interested how bupe effects people differently and whats the "sweet spot" range where you can still use full agonists on top of it. I know I probably wasted a good amount of dillaudid and one opana and bag. I just want to not off, maybe it's time to hit the JWH-018.
 
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