Eight0Eight
Bluelighter
Yes - its all free.
Took me 10 days to get on.
See your GP or nearest drug clinic/needle exchange.
Took me 10 days to get on.
See your GP or nearest drug clinic/needle exchange.
-
OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010
- Thread starter Captain.Heroin
- Start date
- Status
I wish... there's no exchanges anywhere within 100 miles of me. The methadone clinic charges $2000.00 cash up front to sign up. Do you have a link for exchanges in the us? or anyone?
my doctor scripted me suboxone for 3 months then when I went into his office Monday the nurse said he cant prescribe it cause he does not have the special dea license so.. uh!!
my doctor scripted me suboxone for 3 months then when I went into his office Monday the nurse said he cant prescribe it cause he does not have the special dea license so.. uh!!
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HdoubleODeezy
Bluelighter
I just wanted to post that there is a difference in dosing between the two forms of hydroxyzine there's hcl (atarax a tablet) and pamoate (vistaril a capsule). the hcl is what you want to inject, the pamoate isn't water soluble. but if taken orally there is a difference between dosing with them. its aprox. that hcl is 2x as strong as the pamoate.. because i take 100mg vistaril it would be equal to about 50mg atarax. thats orally remember.. but for injection i would probably inject 25mg atarax, but with CH's posts maybe i would try 12.5mg first.
I just figured this should all be said, i know i said it in the old mega thread i beleive (i dont remember) but with all the talk on the upper part of this page about hydroxyzine i figured this should all be known, so everyone who already knew than just forget this post, but there's a lot of new people, so i figured i'd post it for them.
I just figured this should all be said, i know i said it in the old mega thread i beleive (i dont remember) but with all the talk on the upper part of this page about hydroxyzine i figured this should all be known, so everyone who already knew than just forget this post, but there's a lot of new people, so i figured i'd post it for them.
yoboy
Bluelighter
for those in the US: does your health insurance cover bupe or methadone treatment?
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HdoubleODeezy
Bluelighter
^ when i did have insurance for about a half a year lol it did cover my suboxone. appointment and prescription but with a co-pay. but it varies with coverage, i had very good coverage through my employer.
For those switching from Oxycontin to Suboxone (bupe)....
Just a little piece of useful information for everyone. After doing Oxycontin (snorting) and before switching to bupe I've noticed cleaning out your nose with water, before going to bed, helps to make the transition shorter. What I do, is look at my pupils, my skin to see if I have goosebumps, and hold my hands out flat too see if they're shaking a bit. These three things are all part of the COWS chart. In my opinion, cleaning out your nose may lower your transition time from 12+ hours to 7 or 8 hours.
Just a little piece of useful information for everyone. After doing Oxycontin (snorting) and before switching to bupe I've noticed cleaning out your nose with water, before going to bed, helps to make the transition shorter. What I do, is look at my pupils, my skin to see if I have goosebumps, and hold my hands out flat too see if they're shaking a bit. These three things are all part of the COWS chart. In my opinion, cleaning out your nose may lower your transition time from 12+ hours to 7 or 8 hours.
needlejuice
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2010
- Messages
- 87
i experimented with my buddy in town who hasnt done opiates in like 6 months. he was trying to get some bags,but nothing was certain and i told him i thought a bupe shot would be more cheaper& reliable to get him messed up since he didnt have a tolerance. i broke him out probably about .7mg of subutex. he said like 10 seconds later he was rushing feeling really happy and was noddin off the whole night and next day til the next night. i think u should try to lessen your dosing znegative if youre looking for more effect. maybe try .3-.4 every 12 hours
HdoubleODeezy
Bluelighter
i was shooting like that but every 6 hours sometimes every 4 even.. and was still getting a "rush" if you wanna call it that( the needle is bad and addicting, i would crave the needle but im off it now and back to snorting.. 1mg 2xdaily and it works just as well), it's more of a relief feeling, but for people opiate naive or with little tolerance subs will get them as high as H. but if your on bupe maintenance the only way to get a high from it is to not take it until you are in pretty decent w/ds like 4 days should work and then IV your dose and you will definitely feel a high. if your lookin for a high try that. but isn't being on subs about being clean? from opiates at least?even tho its not another opiate its just subs used in a way they aren't intended.. i haven't touched an opiate other than suboxone for 3 years. but i am also a benzo addict and am working on that also, but if suboxone and benzos keep me off OC's or H then i'll take em.. anyway back to you..
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yoboy
Bluelighter
interesting........ you clean out your nose? why?
HdoubleODeezy
Bluelighter
^ im guessing to get all remainders of opiates out so they don't linger and lengthen the wd maybe?
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Let's keep the thread about discussing Suboxone.
Take it to PM's, and try to be civil to one another.
Secondly guys, let's not argue about US v UK health care. This isn't PC&E, take such conversation there. Thank you.
I don't want to be a dick about this, we can discuss about how US and UK health care handle Suboxone and Subutex, but let's not get into a socio-political discussion.
Lastly, maintenance therapy is not a scam. Primerica is a great example of a scam.
Take it to PM's, and try to be civil to one another.
Secondly guys, let's not argue about US v UK health care. This isn't PC&E, take such conversation there. Thank you.
I don't want to be a dick about this, we can discuss about how US and UK health care handle Suboxone and Subutex, but let's not get into a socio-political discussion.
Lastly, maintenance therapy is not a scam. Primerica is a great example of a scam.
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Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
It only burns if I don't dilute it or if I use too much in a shot. When I stick to 4mg to 6mg per shot, I am golden. This would be of a 20mg/ml solution, so 20 to 30 units.
My veins are still wonderful, I just don't use hydroxyzine often.
I think the "burn" is due to an imbalance of the pH.
The UK isn't the only country where Subutex is more easily accessible, it's more popular in Europe. I would love to live in Europe if I had the same access to micron filters.
It sure does, but not everyone's insurance does. It depends on your policy.
My insurance covers more than 75% of the doctor's visit, and over 65% of the prescription cost.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
OK, so let's make something clear.
If you want to voice your opinions on matters related to Suboxone, Subutex, ORT treatment, this is a great place to do it. However, we're not going to make personal attacks against one another, as all of the rules for the entire forum apply here as well.
We don't want a negative/hostile environment. There were many positive ideas brought up in the discussion but this derails the discussion of Suboxone.
Furthermore, attacking people via PM is like attacking someone on the forum, and you can still gain an infraction for doing so. Please do not make personal attacks via PM.
This is supposed to be a friendly place for everyone to get along in. If we can't get along here, there's a problem and we need to solve it.
Let me try to get this back on track.
808, you said you were using 0.1mg doses, IV, twice per day, and were in withdrawal most of the day.
This is interesting, I was just using 0.1mg doses throughout the day (more like 4 to 6 times per day) and was getting plenty of good effects.
I am sorry that you were in WD most of the time though.
Do you want to expand on this?
If you want to voice your opinions on matters related to Suboxone, Subutex, ORT treatment, this is a great place to do it. However, we're not going to make personal attacks against one another, as all of the rules for the entire forum apply here as well.
We don't want a negative/hostile environment. There were many positive ideas brought up in the discussion but this derails the discussion of Suboxone.
Furthermore, attacking people via PM is like attacking someone on the forum, and you can still gain an infraction for doing so. Please do not make personal attacks via PM.
This is supposed to be a friendly place for everyone to get along in. If we can't get along here, there's a problem and we need to solve it.
Let me try to get this back on track.
808, you said you were using 0.1mg doses, IV, twice per day, and were in withdrawal most of the day.
This is interesting, I was just using 0.1mg doses throughout the day (more like 4 to 6 times per day) and was getting plenty of good effects.
I am sorry that you were in WD most of the time though.
Do you want to expand on this?
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
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phrozen said:What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.
Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.
Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.
As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.
Ceiling: 24-32mgs
Bioavailability:jasoncrest said:
Other Notes:
- Bupe is CIII in the US.
- Metabolized by CYP3A4(see potentiation thread for potentiators).
- Half-life: 37 hours.
- Drug tests: Not detected by regular 5 panel tests.
- A interesting thread by 'medicine cabinet' about a new version of Suboxone that's currently being tested can be found here.
- Buprenorphine gets metabolized into norbuprenorphine and into conjugated buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine.
- Severe opiate withdrawal in a heroin user precipitated by a massive buprenorphine dose
- Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction. -courtesy of thugpassion
Images:
Subutex
Suboxone
I couldn't find photos of Tamgesic, and Buprenex just comes in vials
Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.
Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Frequently Asked Questions
Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.
Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.
Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.
Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).
Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.
Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.
Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.
Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.
Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.
Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.
Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.
Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.
Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.
Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).
Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.
Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.
Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.
Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.
Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.
Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Suboxone Mega Thread Directory - Other links about buprenorphine in Other Drugs
Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use**
Buprenex - should I IM or IV?
Buprenorphine and Antihistamine IV FAQ
Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?
Buprenorphine dosages commonly prescribed are unnecessarily high
Buprenorphine for depression?
Buprenorphine patches
Buprenorphine withdrawals?
Ketoconazole Potenation of Suboxone
Mephedrone and Buprenorphine
Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ - How to Micron Filter Suboxone
Nasal Administration of Suboxone - Issues
Rectal (Plugging) Buprenorphine
Suboxone in place of Naloxone in the event of an opiate overdose*
Subutex has gone generic
Tramadol and Suboxone
Discussion in the Suboxone mega thread goes along quite quickly, so we have a few other threads to promote intermediate/advanced discussion of buprenorphine and its formulations. These threads are meant to divert some of the more advanced discussion that otherwise becomes buried in the mega thread.
If there's another link you think which would go well in this list of related buprenorphine threads, please let me know. We're trying to reserve extra threads on buprenorphine for more intermediary/advanced discussion mostly to reserve the mega thread for a place for questions that can be answered quickly, and the other threads for a place for questions which will otherwise not get the same discussion going on in the mega thread, due to its quick pace.
If you have an idea for a new thread on buprenorphine, it's probably best to figure out by talking to a moderator first to see if it's thread worthy or should be discussed in the mega thread.
*Not Advised. Opiate antagonists are the only safe thing to do in case of an opiate overdose. Please do not give people Suboxone if they have overdosed.
**also known as "6/7's method" or "SixPartSeven's method"
Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use**
Buprenex - should I IM or IV?
Buprenorphine and Antihistamine IV FAQ
Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?
Buprenorphine dosages commonly prescribed are unnecessarily high
Buprenorphine for depression?
Buprenorphine patches
Buprenorphine withdrawals?
Ketoconazole Potenation of Suboxone
Mephedrone and Buprenorphine
Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ - How to Micron Filter Suboxone
Nasal Administration of Suboxone - Issues
Rectal (Plugging) Buprenorphine
Suboxone in place of Naloxone in the event of an opiate overdose*
Subutex has gone generic
Tramadol and Suboxone
Discussion in the Suboxone mega thread goes along quite quickly, so we have a few other threads to promote intermediate/advanced discussion of buprenorphine and its formulations. These threads are meant to divert some of the more advanced discussion that otherwise becomes buried in the mega thread.
If there's another link you think which would go well in this list of related buprenorphine threads, please let me know. We're trying to reserve extra threads on buprenorphine for more intermediary/advanced discussion mostly to reserve the mega thread for a place for questions that can be answered quickly, and the other threads for a place for questions which will otherwise not get the same discussion going on in the mega thread, due to its quick pace.
If you have an idea for a new thread on buprenorphine, it's probably best to figure out by talking to a moderator first to see if it's thread worthy or should be discussed in the mega thread.
*Not Advised. Opiate antagonists are the only safe thing to do in case of an opiate overdose. Please do not give people Suboxone if they have overdosed.
**also known as "6/7's method" or "SixPartSeven's method"
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Welcome to 8.0! | So, What's New?
As you acquaint yourself with the new Suboxone Mega Thread, you might notice minute changes we've made in this version, so I'll make some notes so you don't have to go through the whole thing all over again.
New Directory Links:
Ketoconazole Potenation of Suboxone
If there's any other additions, we'll make sure to post a note of it here for you.
As you acquaint yourself with the new Suboxone Mega Thread, you might notice minute changes we've made in this version, so I'll make some notes so you don't have to go through the whole thing all over again.
New Directory Links:
Ketoconazole Potenation of Suboxone
If there's any other additions, we'll make sure to post a note of it here for you.
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Tahmsonmahsah
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2008
- Messages
- 23
Have been doing Bupe daily for a week now, nasal, amounts of 0.5 to 2mg daily. Earlier I have only been using various opioids 1-2 times a week for a long time. When do you think I can get recreational effect from Methadone?
homeydontplaythat
Bluelighter
check this out. i went to the er due to the dreaded phenazepam(did liquid measurments and all). and the whore who cant identify this benzo claims i must be abusing my bupe. so now my gf is nurse who watches me take it Sl everday. are we in russia, wait, somolia....no USAAAAAAA
homeydontplaythat
Bluelighter
low dose bupe talking 2mg a day once you are stabalized. it will steal your motivation but you wont steal cars.
- Status