Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[charsouth1]

^Your tolerance now is at 16mg buprenorphine/ day, which is really high. Codeine won't touch that, nor would just about any reasonable or safe dose of any opiate... Save them for when you're quitting Sub, is my advice...

Ha! Hadn't really thought about it that way, but that does make a lot of sense. Thanks for the advice.

 

[cj]

I have an observation. I know no one will listen to this but I have been dabbling with heroin alot the last two weeks going like 3 days on suboxone 3 days on heroin. At first it was all good but the more times I do it the less effective the subs are becoming at killing my cravings. Also I usually wait 24 hours after smack to dose the subs well when I did that the 3rd time I went into precipitated withdrawl which was one of the worst experinces of my life. I dont know what this means scientifically but be careful with your dabbling.

 

[moonshield06]

First day on subs!

Well I finally did it up and went to the suboxone doctor today. I had been pretty much a slave to oxycodone/contin, whatever opiates I could find for 14 months and doing them daily and in high dosages. I went 26 hours no oppies until I was in the office. Previous to going I did A LOT of research on Buprenorphine via this site and this thread in particular and I'm glad I did. Anyway, doc started me off on 5mg(Or what I would guess). Gave me an 8mg pill and told me to break it in half and ended up breaking it uneven. Said take the bigger piece and I'm gonna put a video on for you(same video you see on suboxone.com). Within 35 minutes I started feeling lifted. Felt great. My anxiety was fading and I noticed I had stopped bouncing my leg(from the anxiety). I began to lose the chills and the thought of oxy left my mind. Needless to say, I felt free for the first time in over a year. He told me to take the smaller piece when I got home, so I did, and ever since I've been loving life. He also wrote me a script for one more 8mg pill just until I see him tomorrow, then I'll be getting my full script.

Only thing I'm not too happy about is the fact that he really doesn't want me smoking bud. He didn't say "You'll be kicked from maintenance if you pop positive" so I don't know. Tomorrow I go in for a urine screening I guess to make sure I didn't try taking any pills(which would be retarded..)..so I figure I'm gonna pop positive still anyway for thc, so I'm blazing a bowl regardless...lol

All in All...Suboxone is a fuckin lifesaver. If you're thinking about kicking or giving it up, find a sub doc and make the call. Don't even think twice.

Thanks bluelight for giving me all the vital information I needed to know, and the doc was actually surprised at how much I knew about bupe.

 

[Tchort]

tramadol is more of an opiate than an antidepressant, yeah it does have antidepressant properties though

it gives you an opiate high. feels wierd because of all the receptors it hits, but its an opiate. higher up on the opiate-quality-ladder than propoxyphene/darvo at least

I disagree. I think Propoxyphene is an excellent opioid for a variety of applications. From a functional and side effect profile angle, I think it is better than Tramadol, Codeine & most of the partial agonists (Pentazocine, Butorphanol, etc).

It also has a very good history of being used as a palliative analgesic in elderly populations. Mild pain relief and palliative care (i.e. euphoria, making them comfortable) is something Propoxyphene is very good at. If used according to doctors orders, it is also relatively safe for this purpose. Look at the patient group who was most furious at the idea of Darvon becoming unavailable in the UK- elderly patients maintained on Propoxyphene for palliative care.

 

[ocforme]

okay so after almost 2 years of taking oxycodone everyday today is the 1st day well its exactly 24 hours of not taking any..i was upwards of 450mg a day at my worst but for the last month to month and a half i weaned down to 120mg at most over the day.

well i waited 15 hours today and took 3mg of suboxone and 45min later felt great.

i left NY and went to my timeshare in florida to detox and start subs because back home i would have called someone already for more pills.

my question is when should i dose my subs, i bought them off a friend. should i take it twice a day and how far apart?

my legs are KILLING me feels like ive been running for days and they just HURT. i took 5 hot hot showers today it seems to work for about 30 min but still its bothering me.

should i up my sub dose or take more often?

last dose was today at 4pm.

i feel great though otherwise, i went 36 hours once before actually with no OC and it took 8mg just to get my WD under some sort of control and still i wasnt feeling well.

i flew to FL my best friends died in an accident and i left NY that morning and didnt have time to pick up before i left, and it was THE WORST with WD EVER this was when i was taking 400+ mg a day 130mg when i woke just got me able to take a shower and get up for the day...even got to the point where when i couldnt get OC i would pick up 5 buns(5g) and sniff over a bun(1g) a day and would never get "high" my friend said there was something wrong with me he watched me sniff 6 bags and be exactly the same, just would keep my WD at bay until i could get more OC. thank god i turned down the pins i think id be SO much worse then i was.

anyway i hope i stick with this, my social life is gone, i lost my job from oversleeping...the fun was over long ago then addiction took over...i hope i can stick with this when i get home on friday.

man i wish OC wasn't so addictive lol

 

[BearLeeLive]

maby maby not

Placebo.


Seriously, Captain Heroin is the ONLY opiate-dependant person I have EVER known of that claims to actually get high off of IV subutex.

Yeah, if your a n00b it will get you wasted, otherwise its pretty much all in your head.

It does make your subutex go further - but you will find it more difficul towards the end of your taper, as (CH mentioned) it doesn't last as long - so you will be spending more and more of your day hankering for the next dose.

Thats the big mstake I made last time I weaned of subutex. If I had taken it properly (under the tounge) I honestly think it would have been a hell of a lot easier..

i dont like iv subutex yet i injoy ov suboxin??????????

 

[mayunholdup]

SJW Suboxone confusion

Hello, I have been a lurker on here for quite some time and I have a question to ask...I know it has been in previous threads but there has been no clear cut answer....

I take 16-20 MG Of Suboxone daily. I take my dose all at once since for whatever reason the second dose would make me very drowsy,clammy, and also add on to my already severe constipation...Anyways to my question...

I have read online that taking 600MG or so of St John's wort during your dose of Suboxone can increase the potency, giving you that "honey moon" feeling you first have when you get on Suboxone. However, I have read on the following site that taking it made people have a very bad reaction from it...

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21888
(Link to the bad reaction)

However, this next link which I'm sure a lot of you have read says that taking SJW after dosing actually produced a euphoric like feeling...

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/archive/index.php/t-293047.html

Maybe I'm not the best searcher but like I said I couldn't find an answer in the previous threads..

I will be taking my dose tomorrow around 1 PM PT as I always do and would like to know before then.

Thanks,
Ryan

(Edit Note: I forgot to clarify my question....Does taking St John's wort with your daily Suboxone dose potentate it anymore or is it just the possible "Placebo Effect." Also, has anyone else had a bad reaction in doing so as shown in the first link I posted.)

 

[johanneschimpo]

Do you have any questions or anything? I suppose people who have tried this will reply, so good luck.

Thinking about it more (I skimmed your post) I guess the idea is to induce CYP450 enzymes and turn more buprenorphine into norbuprenorphine, which is a full agonist. However, some buprenorphine will activate (and fill) the receptors too. Since bupe has a higher affinity than norbupe so it will block norbupe from working - At least in theory. I would say if using st. johns wort does work in this manner, it would only do so, or do so best, with low doses (so bupe is blocking as little as possible).

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Well I finally did it up and went to the suboxone doctor today. I had been pretty much a slave to oxycodone/contin, whatever opiates I could find for 14 months and doing them daily and in high dosages. I went 26 hours no oppies until I was in the office. Previous to going I did A LOT of research on Buprenorphine via this site and this thread in particular and I'm glad I did. Anyway, doc started me off on 5mg(Or what I would guess). Gave me an 8mg pill and told me to break it in half and ended up breaking it uneven. Said take the bigger piece and I'm gonna put a video on for you(same video you see on suboxone.com). Within 35 minutes I started feeling lifted. Felt great. My anxiety was fading and I noticed I had stopped bouncing my leg(from the anxiety). I began to lose the chills and the thought of oxy left my mind. Needless to say, I felt free for the first time in over a year. He told me to take the smaller piece when I got home, so I did, and ever since I've been loving life. He also wrote me a script for one more 8mg pill just until I see him tomorrow, then I'll be getting my full script.

Congratulations! Sounds like it's going to work well for you.

Only thing I'm not too happy about is the fact that he really doesn't want me smoking bud. He didn't say "You'll be kicked from maintenance if you pop positive" so I don't know. Tomorrow I go in for a urine screening I guess to make sure I didn't try taking any pills(which would be retarded..)..so I figure I'm gonna pop positive still anyway for thc, so I'm blazing a bowl regardless...lol

Find a different doctor who doesn't do urine analysis. You're trying to get help for HEROIN, not weed. If he's not offering you any meds to stop taking weed, get a new doctor. He's a quack.

THC alone doesn't even make you high. 8)

If you only get one month's prescription before he sees that you've tested positive for weed and get kicked off, 30 times 8mg per day is 240mg, which should be enough to completely taper you off as comfortably as possible, if you want to do a quick taper. If you were looking forward to maintenance, or don't think a quick taper (3 - 6 months I'm estimating) will help you much, look for a new doctor.

All in All...Suboxone is a fuckin lifesaver. If you're thinking about kicking or giving it up, find a sub doc and make the call. Don't even think twice.

Thanks bluelight for giving me all the vital information I needed to know, and the doc was actually surprised at how much I knew about bupe.

Congrats man! I'm glad this was a good resource for you. I have been clean for 17 months now thanks to Suboxone.

Let us know how it goes and best of luck!

okay so after almost 2 years of taking oxycodone everyday today is the 1st day well its exactly 24 hours of not taking any..i was upwards of 450mg a day at my worst but for the last month to month and a half i weaned down to 120mg at most over the day.

well i waited 15 hours today and took 3mg of suboxone and 45min later felt great.

i left NY and went to my timeshare in florida to detox and start subs because back home i would have called someone already for more pills.

Glad to hear you got a change of environment. Environmental tolerance and triggers can be quite an issue for people recovering. Florida should be absolutely beautiful this time of year!

my question is when should i dose my subs, i bought them off a friend. should i take it twice a day and how far apart?

my legs are KILLING me feels like ive been running for days and they just HURT. i took 5 hot hot showers today it seems to work for about 30 min but still its bothering me.

should i up my sub dose or take more often?

last dose was today at 4pm.

i feel great though otherwise, i went 36 hours once before actually with no OC and it took 8mg just to get my WD under some sort of control and still i wasnt feeling well.

i flew to FL my best friends died in an accident and i left NY that morning and didnt have time to pick up before i left, and it was THE WORST with WD EVER this was when i was taking 400+ mg a day 130mg when i woke just got me able to take a shower and get up for the day...even got to the point where when i couldnt get OC i would pick up 5 buns(5g) and sniff over a bun(1g) a day and would never get "high" my friend said there was something wrong with me he watched me sniff 6 bags and be exactly the same, just would keep my WD at bay until i could get more OC. thank god i turned down the pins i think id be SO much worse then i was.

anyway i hope i stick with this, my social life is gone, i lost my job from oversleeping...the fun was over long ago then addiction took over...i hope i can stick with this when i get home on friday.

man i wish OC wasn't so addictive lol

I'm sorry to hear about your best friend.

I'd say you should dose your Suboxone 1 or 2 times per day. I wouldn't exceed 8mg per day.

Try to taper down when the WD symptoms stop being as bad as they were (it sounds like this is still your first week or two with it), and take it easy. Hot showers are a plus!

Good luck with the recovery man! Let us know how it goes.

This is just a story - if your friend is ODing on an opiate called the ambulance.


So the other night. T'was over at a good friends place. He decided to IV some Diamorphine. He instantly nodded out (which isn't all that uncommon with this stuff he uses) usually he comes too within a few mins, i waited, and waited, and then became worried. Making sure he was still breathing this whole time his breathing became "not good." I dunno what came over me but i knew he was ODing for sure. Breathing slow, and labored. So by the grace of god there was like a 1mg maybe 1.5mg piece of suboxone in the room and I just crushed it like a mad-man filtered it real good and slowlyyyyy injected it into his vein. and like within 30secs my friend slowly started coming back and the day was saved... he was pissed that he wasn't high anymore - i don't think he really realized what I or He had just gone threw...


i never wanted to have to do this, but I am glad there was a Suboxone tablet there.

And he wasn't in agony from the shot? I'd imagine he went through precipitated WD's or at least vomited a good bit.

I'm glad he pulled through all in all though. I don't blame you for doing that, but it's not a good example to set. You put a "just call an ambulance" advice in the beginning of your post though, so what you said was OK. We're all about sharing experiences here.

In the future maybe you can try to get a vial of naloxone for when friends are coming over to shoot H?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

SJW will increase metabolism of buprenorphine, so expect a slightly shorter duration for sublingual use.

I wouldn't bother taking SJW to "potentiate" buprenorphine at all.

-> Suboxone Mega Thread

 

[JahRed24x]

^ Yeah that whole taking St. johns wort to enhance BUP is kinda stupid..

Capt. H i have been wondering, i have some kratom tinctures and extracts and was wondering if you know if kratom will have ANY effect while on subs? doesn't kratom have other effects other then just the weak mu- opiate receptor connection? (I dunno, i dont wanna really waste it cuz this tincture was expensive and is the 7-hydroxy-Mitragynine / full-spectrum and 20x extract poweder)

 

[moonshield06]

Just got back from sub doc...

Ok, so I went back in for the day after follow up with my bupe doc and..well..let's just say I'm not fucking happy. This guy is a total quack. Like an idiot, I told him I smoked weed last night to "celebrate" finally being free of OC's, because I didn't want to lie to him. I had to take another urine screening anyway. Fact is if I smoked or not, it was still gonna pop positive regardless.

So anyway, he gives me this speech about how if I don't give up weed, I'm not ready for the treatment. Like what fucking gives? I'm here because I want to get off opiates. Not be completely fucking sober, straight edge for the rest of my life. It's my body, and I can choose to do whatever with it. It's not like I'm physically or psychologically dependent on fucking weed. He's acting like me smoking is going to interfere with my treatment and have my relapse. Does this make any fucking sense? So he stresses to me again, no more weed, no nothing, and writes me a script for a weeks worth of subs and I have to go back next tuesday.

What do I do here? I can't believe this guy is threatening to kick me from the program for fucking weed. So because I smoke a little green once in a while, you're gonna send me packing back to the streets to score OCs and dope again?

What other options do I have? Do I call around and try to find a doctor who doesn't urine screen? I'm really fucking annoyed right now.

 

[Fresco]

Bupe Questions

I have a couple of questions regarding bupe.

If a heroin addict (who's been a user for several years) goes on a bupe program to counter WD's, how long does he have to stay on the bupe for??
And how much does Bupe eliminate the WD's?? To the point where someone on Bupe can go to work normally?? Or must he stay in bed or rest at home??

I didnt know where to put this thread, sorry

 

[ocforme]

yea well the 1st time i went into WD was in july when my friend passed and i said i would never let that happen again, this time i weaned down my OC intake to 120mg split up over 3 doses throughout the day..now 2mg sub in the AM 2mg sub in the afternoon and i feel amazing

happy, wanting to do things again..i would not have been able to start being home, so being away from all i know is 100% helping. today is day 2 feeling good

 

[rhythmtech]

I just started on subs and its not taking away my WD's or cravings. I'm on 2mg 3x a day. This morning i shot 1mg and put 1mg under my tongue. No relief. I'm gonna score one last time as I am sick but was wondering. Will 54mg of hydromorph cut through that? I'm thinking I'm gonna feel something at least cause I'm pretty fuckin sick right now

Edit - Its more of a rhetorical question. I'm gonna do it anyways so.. Ill let BL massive know

 

[moonshield06]

I just started on subs and its not taking away my WD's or cravings. I'm on 2mg 3x a day. This morning i shot 1mg and put 1mg under my tongue. No relief. I'm gonna score one last time as I am sick but was wondering. Will 54mg of hydromorph cut through that? I'm thinking I'm gonna feel something at least cause I'm pretty fuckin sick right now

Edit - Its more of a rhetorical question. I'm gonna do it anyways so.. Ill let BL massive know

Dude, call your bupe doctor and tell him this! Tell him you're still having major cravings and are feeling sick! Chances are he'll either have you come in that day, or tell you to up your dose by such and such increment until he sees you.

With a really hefty tolerance, 2mg isn't gonna be enough to hold most people. I take 4mg a day, 4mg at night. Or some days I just take the full 8mg in the morning just to try and catch a little "something" but it's my only second day on bupe. I don't get a high from it all. Which doesn't bother me at all considering it's taking away ALL WD symptoms, and I don't crave them in the slightest. Sure I think about them due to reading the forums here and such, that's the extent of it.

Suboxone saved my life that's for sure. I know it's kinda too early to tell but for right now, I feel GREAT. Completely content. Only thing I'm really peeved is the fact I have to give up weed since this doctor is a quack and wants me "completely sober living".

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^ Yeah that whole taking St. johns wort to enhance BUP is kinda stupid..

Capt. H i have been wondering, i have some kratom tinctures and extracts and was wondering if you know if kratom will have ANY effect while on subs? doesn't kratom have other effects other then just the weak mu- opiate receptor connection? (I dunno, i dont wanna really waste it cuz this tincture was expensive and is the 7-hydroxy-Mitragynine / full-spectrum and 20x extract poweder)

I would save it man. Just to get the most for your $.

You can take other opiates while you're on a dose of buprenorphine, but it is probably preferable for you to save the kratom so as to get as high off of it as you can.

I'd vote save it for a rainy day.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What do I do here? I can't believe this guy is threatening to kick me from the program for fucking weed. So because I smoke a little green once in a while, you're gonna send me packing back to the streets to score OCs and dope again?

What other options do I have? Do I call around and try to find a doctor who doesn't urine screen? I'm really fucking annoyed right now.

Go find another doctor like I advised in the first place. Your doctor is an ignorant fuck.

You could say "oh I tried so hard to quit, but I accidentally smoked once *sob sob sob*" and see if he'll believe you're not smoking that much.

I don't know what the UA will tell him.

My doctor doesn't care if I smoke weed, and doesn't UA me.

But, yes, stupid doctors really think opiates are safer than marijuana. A little propaganda/lies/deceit/hear-say can go a long way. 8)

 

[ellua]

What other options do I have? Do I call around and try to find a doctor who doesn't urine screen? I'm really fucking annoyed right now.

no doctor could maintain a successful bupe clinic if they dropped every patient that did another drug at some point while on sub, 'specially weed or alcohol... if you think he's truly threatening to boot you and not just preaching the clean living deal, find another doc.

asking if they urine test over the phone won't get you very accurate results, i would bet all of them (or nearly all) will say that they do, even if they don't actually test once you go in-- I've been to 3 different bupe docs over 3 years and ALL of them had formal policy agreements that included a statement about mandatory & random drug tests and pill counts, however, i never EVER had to piss in a cup for any of them.

i think that if you lie to your bupe doc about your using/history/cravings, that's a way bigger indicator of not being ready to actually stay clean than an actual relapse or two (or three...) that you can be honest about to yourself and your maintenance doc. god i'm glad my doc is so awesome- maybe this makes him look like the worst addictionologist in the world but last time i went in he had acquired a vial of Delysid and has it on display in an antique medicine cabinet. i asked if we could bust it out but he said not til he's retired prolly a good answer for a practicing doctor...

anyway good luck, find a doc you feel you can tell anything to and your recovery will be 100x easier.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

last time i went in he had acquired a vial of Delysid and has it on display in an antique medicine cabinet.

I'd stare at that thing the whole appointment!