Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[Pegasus]

today's my jump-off day with Bupe. I am jumping off of 0.5 mg/day. It hasnt even been a full 24h since my last 0.5mg dose and I'm already starting to feel mild WDs starting. I can't afford to jump off completely so I'm planning on using these 50 Vicodin ES 7.5mg to taper. I've been on subs for 2 years , started with 2MG and worked my way down to 1 MG. Been doing 0.5mg for about a week now.

Anyone recommend how to do this? What to start with and where to go from there? I have 50 pills... I am planning on starting the vike later tonight after its been a full 24h since my last dose of bupe

Yeah, it's a good idea IMO. Just take the smallest dose of the hydrocodone that you can get by on, and lower that dose at a pace that doesn't leave you feeling shitty until you're skipping days and eventually off altogether.

 

[Mystery Brew]

Is there any dip in effectiveness if sub dose is taken all at once or splited into two dose during the day?

 

[previouslyhere]

Are you trying to accomplish quitting opiates?

Yes. I know it sounds ass backwards but its what I'm dealing with. I can't afford to jump off 0.5mg all together and feel like shit for 2 weeks. I'd rather get on the Vike, taper off of that, and feel like shit for 4 days or so if I have to... Believe me, I can not wait until I do not have to take a fuckin pill every day. Sub saved my life but my doctor retired and I have to get reassessed by a new one that I don't know. My script is out - I've been preparing for this since November tapering from 2MG down to 0.5MG since then

I'm thinking of starting with 4 pills today and tomorrow (30MG) and tapering off of that by half a pill every two days until I get down to 2 pills/day then cut down by half a pill every 3 days.

Yeah, it's a good idea IMO. Just take the smallest dose of the hydrocodone that you can get by on, and lower that dose at a pace that doesn't leave you feeling shitty until you're skipping days and eventually off altogether.

Thanks for your reply . I have faith that this will work if I follow the taper strictly. I cant wait to to be done with this shit

 

[Pegasus]

Is there any dip in effectiveness if sub dose is taken all at once or splited into two dose during the day?

You will have two peaks in concentration as opposed to one if you dose twice daily. The only difference would be that there is more fluctuation in between doses when taking once a day and less fluctuation between the twice daily doses.

 

[Pegasus]

Thanks for your reply . I have faith that this will work if I follow the taper strictly. I cant wait to to be done with this shit

No problem! Keep us updated on how it goes!

 

[darkz]

A few questions..

Searched around for a bit, couldn't find an answer. Sorry if this is in the wrong place.

I'm turning 18 in a few days and I really want to get put on bupe. The thing is though, I don't know hardly anything about my insurance. All I know is that its a Blue Cross HMO plan. I was wondering how the insurance companies deal with these kind of things, I want to go on bupe without my parents knowing but I am still covered under my parents insurance...Is there a way to pay for the script/refills myself without my parents being able to see anything from the insurance?

Hopefully I'm not being too vague. :/

 

[Captain.Heroin]

to the mega thread and beyond!

Call your insurance provider and ask them some questions.

They should send you a booklet every year with updates to your policy (re: how much drugs cost you).

http://www.suboxone.com/patients/resources/find_a_doctor.aspx

Your parents will get the bill and they will see what docs you went to. Just tell them you need to see a psychiatrist for medicine. If they're ignorant, or can't put 2 and 2 together, you should be just fine.

Otherwise, just be upfront and honest with your parents. You're already on opiates if I'm not mistaken, right? If they don't find out eventually do you think they'll be mad at you for being honest? I think not...

then again they may be, so I can't exactly tell you, I don't know your parents, sorry.

 

[DangerChamber]

I already did that Cpt H they threw me out of the house.

 

[needlejuice]

the white spots are not inflamed or red. i dont really have any track marks, and there are no bruises. its just two white splotches on my skin around the injection site, that werent there a week ago. could this be a signal for anything bad?


also, to the person saying u cant get precipitated withdrawal if u take a break off suboxone and do dope for a few days. you just got lucky you waited long enough. dont go thinking that next time u can just get back on bupe whenever u want. u can go into precipitated from doing dope once if u dont wait long enough after, im surprised capt or anybody else hasnt corrected u on that.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

^ no ones corrected them on it probly because they will learn it them selves when they try it again and get sick.. its been talked about a million times about how long to wait and why to wait and all that stuff. it gets kinda old. they'll find out by themselves what pwd are if they screw up on their dose timing.

 

[needlejuice]

i find it pretty interesting reading about the kid who said his suboxone cottons gave him more euphoria than the suboxone itself. i think it's because the naloxone is more water soluble and after u filter it once all the naloxone gets out, while some of the bupe sits in the cotton. i wonder if there could be a way you could filter out the naloxone this way. like break the pill up, add water, but dont mix, and filter out that shit because it def. makes a difference when shot compared to subutex.

 

[Bojangles69]

i find it pretty interesting reading about the kid who said his suboxone cottons gave him more euphoria than the suboxone itself. i think it's because the naloxone is more water soluble and after u filter it once all the naloxone gets out, while some of the bupe sits in the cotton. i wonder if there could be a way you could filter out the naloxone this way. like break the pill up, add water, but dont mix, and filter out that shit because it def. makes a difference when shot compared to subutex.

You could technically seperate bupe from nalaxone using solubility rates without too much trouble, the only issues is the amounts you would need. It could take about 100 suboxone to have enough solvent to work with. But I thought people said there is no difference between injecting suboxone and subutex. I though a general consensus was reached that the nalaxone is still useless when injected.

Unless I'm wrong idk I've been reading too much different stuff lately..

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I already did that Cpt H they threw me out of the house.

I'm sorry to hear that! Some parents can be especially ignorant about drugs.

 

[Bojangles69]

I know if it was my parents they would be happy and most people would expect my parents to kill over something like that (as traditional as they are).

But first time they found out they just cried but were happy that I wanted to get clean. If you show them you WANT to be clean I don't see how they could possibly get angry.

-------------------

Now I have 1 more question about this suboxone

I rescheduled because I don't know what I'm saving pods for. ( I was more or less worried about the bupe not doing its job really)
So today I'm doing an early final dose of pods. Have nothing left that I ordered or anything.

My timing is this todays monday (pods at 6pm) tuesday (nothing) wednesday (work).

I'm afraid of taking a sub wednesday morning and nodding out or being tired/nautious during work. I need energy tuesday otherwise I may kill myself with the machines we're using.

I'm thinking it would be smarter to do the sub tuesday night, just encase I have a strong reaction or pwds, I'm thinking they will stablize hopefully by morning.

So if do my last few pods early today, I should basically be in the clear my tommorow say 8pm? I usually start getting pains in my upper quads and hot flashes around 16-20 hours after my last dose so I think I should be ok.
I just don't think it will be smart to wait till morning and possibly get sick or high off the bupe. Any thoughts are def welcome, thanks! (I know this forum is bombarded with timing questions but I just want to be safe then sorry)

 

[DangerChamber]

I'm sorry to hear that! Some parents can be especially ignorant about drugs.

Yeah tell me bout it. It's aite tho.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Either way, ill probably stay away from Zoloft unless literally nothing else works.

And by the way sorry for hijacking this thread with my own problems, the suboxone issue has been confirmed.

It's OK! We go over a lot of topics in the Suboxone Mega Thread, especially since it can be connected to Suboxone, or Suboxone based ORT treatment in a broader sense. We go over a lot of adjunct medications. We also go over many people's problems, so it's all good. %)

Oh yeah, except for the question about whether or not i can make my suboxone last longer by taking it under my tongue or shooting smaller amounts of it? Don't forget my goal is the make what little pills i have last as long as possible, i don't care about getting high as long as im not withdrawing. Its kinda nice to be back in a state of mind where i can just go buy some weed when i want to get high.



I know im going to get an answer about how shooting pills is a bad idea so please just save it, im not saying im even going to shoot it im just wondering what the truth about that would be with risk factors aside.


I know you IV your subs captain

Well it depends on your tolerance. Sublingual doses will last you longer when you have a medium/high to high tolerance to opiates. When you get to zero to low (possibly low/medium) tolerance to opiates, IV buprenorphine can last you longer "if" you do it right. You would want to beat the BA curve by using less than 1/3rd of your sublingual dose, because you should account for dosing more than once a day.

When IV'd, buprenorphine is active in the microgram range, and not the milligram range. Well it obviously is active in the milligram range but it's not as good, and using large IV doses of buprenorphine will only blow your tolerance up.

So really it depends on the way you do it. Some people might find snorting their pills makes them last longer due to a longer duration than IV but less than sublingual.

There's a few different reasons why sublingual, snorted, or IV might be an ideal ROA for you. I don't want to say flat out one is better than all...but you know what side I tend to favor.

Looking back I should have stayed on it sublingually longer than I did, but after a few weeks I managed to taper down rather easily to a much lower dose, where I started enjoying the effects via IV a lot more.

today's my jump-off day with Bupe. I am jumping off of 0.5 mg/day. It hasnt even been a full 24h since my last 0.5mg dose and I'm already starting to feel mild WDs starting. I can't afford to jump off completely so I'm planning on using these 50 Vicodin ES 7.5mg to taper. I've been on subs for 2 years , started with 2MG and worked my way down to 1 MG. Been doing 0.5mg for about a week now.

Anyone recommend how to do this? What to start with and where to go from there? I have 50 pills... I am planning on starting the vike later tonight after its been a full 24h since my last dose of bupe

Do you have any buprenorphine left?

You should try getting down to 0.25mg at least, since you're stating you're already experiencing mild WD's. Just a thought.

I would save the Vicodin for when you are opiate free and would like to use here and there (or you can save them for legit pain). I wouldn't personally want to taper with hydrocodone, but if you really want to use that to help yourself step down, it is possible.

If you only have the Vicodin, take one or two per day max for no longer than 3 days. Then for the rest of the week, take 1 per day.

See if you can get down to half a vicodin per day, as a means to not have nasty WD's but to step down from the WD's so that life is bearable but not "nodding out high" either.

I would then try to have half a Vicodin every other day, and I would tough out each in between day with whatever mental strength (and with whatever benzos/antihistamines I have) to get through to the next day. Then I would probably just jump off from that, and save the rest of the Vics for yourself later down the road.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Is there any dip in effectiveness if sub dose is taken all at once or splited into two dose during the day?

It depends on how much you take. I prefer to have at least two doses per day if I'm using Suboxone sublingually but I can get by on one.

You can always try taking your daily dose, and splitting it into 1/4th's, see if 2 or 3 doses works instead of one bigger dose in the beginning of the day.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

the white spots are not inflamed or red. i dont really have any track marks, and there are no bruises. its just two white splotches on my skin around the injection site, that werent there a week ago. could this be a signal for anything bad?


also, to the person saying u cant get precipitated withdrawal if u take a break off suboxone and do dope for a few days. you just got lucky you waited long enough. dont go thinking that next time u can just get back on bupe whenever u want. u can go into precipitated from doing dope once if u dont wait long enough after, im surprised capt or anybody else hasnt corrected u on that.

Are the white spots scaly, or just regular skin texture?

It might be a signal for something bad, but I really have no idea.

Is it getting larger or smaller, or staying the same size?

I didn't correct them because if they don't get precipitated WD's they can do as they please. If they have precipitated WD's one day, that'll be the truth being painfully obvious for them. And if they don't, they got lucky.

I'm afraid of taking a sub wednesday morning and nodding out or being tired/nautious during work. I need energy tuesday otherwise I may kill myself with the machines we're using.

Don't worry about that. It's more likely you'll still have lingering WD from the full agonist, and won't be nodding out your first time on Suboxone. Just be conservative with your dose, and make sure you are in the "feel OK to function" area, and don't take any more than that. Taking a huge dose could cause you to nod, but just don't take huge doses.

Nausea is common with quitting opiates. If anything Suboxone should help you with nausea. If you have to puke just run to the bathroom. You can say you had some bad leftovers.

I'm thinking it would be smarter to do the sub tuesday night, just encase I have a strong reaction or pwds, I'm thinking they will stablize hopefully by morning.

Yeah, that is a good idea. Start with a small dose to test your reaction.

So if do my last few pods early today, I should basically be in the clear my tommorow say 8pm? I usually start getting pains in my upper quads and hot flashes around 16-20 hours after my last dose so I think I should be ok.
I just don't think it will be smart to wait till morning and possibly get sick or high off the bupe. Any thoughts are def welcome, thanks! (I know this forum is bombarded with timing questions but I just want to be safe then sorry)

You should be good to go!

Yeah tell me bout it. It's aite tho.

Best of luck man! I can't imagine being disowned because of drug addiction. I quit using, and that really helped and all, but what people don't understand is drug addiction is nothing to be ashamed of or looked down upon.

If you're stealing from your parents and other people for dope money, well that's one thing. Simply using and not hurting anyone in the process, is another. "Victimless crimes" are not crimes.

I mean in terms of moral standards. The law obviously loves making victimless crimes.

 

[StaffWriter]

Now, I know that the naloxone in the Suboxone preparation is essentially inactive, but I have noticed a decrease in my desire to drink since I've been on suboxone (almost 19mo now). I've never been a heavy drinker (maybe more like a binger in college) but I don't even want to drink a beer anymore. Do you think it could be the naloxone or is it something else?

 

[needlejuice]

when i used to be on a higher dose of bupe (8mg a day) it would take some pretty good bags (at least 3) or at least 80 mg worth of methadone to break through the bupe. me and my friend are having an argument. he thinks that no matter how good the bags are, you have gotta wait a certain amount of time after taking bupe to get high on heroin. i disagree and think if the bags are good then it doesnt matter how long after youve taken the sub, because they will still break through. (in my experience the bags dont get blocked if you do enough)