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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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What do you do for money CH? Are you a student or work? What are your aspirations in life?

Sorry for being nosy but you're obviously a large player in this forum and my curiosity is getting the best of me.

I'm a student, and am trying to find work.

My aspirations are to complete undergrad and go onto grad school possibly. I hope to one day be a therapist or psychologist studying or researching or practicing in one capacity or another. I haven't decided on what I really want to do yet though.

I thought about becoming a psychiatrist but it'll likely be more trouble than it's worth.
 
I'm a student, and am trying to find work.

My aspirations are to complete undergrad and go onto grad school possibly. I hope to one day be a therapist or psychologist studying or researching or practicing in one capacity or another. I haven't decided on what I really want to do yet though.

I thought about becoming a psychiatrist but it'll likely be more trouble than it's worth.

become a bupe doc, that's where the money and easy work is!

i was a psych major for the first three years of college, with a serious interest in addiction. then i got sober and went to rehab, i realized i hate people like me and would absolutely hate to deal with this crap every day! =D roflmaooo
 
Bupe 24 hours after H

This is just a report I wanted to post on the mega-thread.


I have been on suboxone this time for about a month. Three days ago I shot Heroin about 24 hours after my last bupe dose and felt a pretty good rush. I continued to use H for a total of three days, and then waited in anticipation to take my Suboxone.

I hate that about Bupe, waiting to feel sick enough to actually take the thing; that fear alone delayed my getting sober about half a year a while ago.

I waited a good 24 hours after using H, feeling very uncomfortable physically and extreme anxiety. I decided to IV my dose, as that always makes the transition alittle bit easier. I did about 1-1.5mgs.

Immediately I panicked, did I do it to soon? I looked into the mirror and my pupils dialated; I felt an instant flush sweat coming up from every pore, it felt. I was sure I was about to be sick, but after a moment, I felt good, relaxed even, and that "like a rush" sensation that suboxone provides took over.

Anyways, just wanted to post this for one more experience on the topic.
 
wassup yall. im really been diggin this sub megathread the past days. Ive been havin some SHIT fuckin problems wit subs the last 2 times ive tried to stop bangin dope and detox myself off subs. So here goes,
Me and my girl (both IV dope users, me bout 1/2 brick 30 bag a day habit, hers about 15 - 20 bags a day ish.) We decided to go into a detox, me hopin they did detox like they did 5 - 6 yrs ago with low mg's of methadone and weened u off that way. nope, its all bupe. and this detox is incridibly ignorant. So i did my last shot at 7 AM b4 iwent in. I kno about precipitated w/d's b4 this but im by no means a sub doctor w/ half lifes and agonists and all that shit. So i wait al day and at 10 o'clock meds i realized it aint been newhere near 24 hrs yet but i asked the nurse if iwould be okay takin it, she said yea. so i fuckin ate it, sublingually of course. I ate a kpin my roomate snuck is so at first i was told by my gf that she came in to kiss me gnite and i was sleep. but about 1/2 hour after eatin the sub all hell broke loose. I felt like my insides were jumping around like i had a bunch of fuckin little men running around inside of me. I couldnt sit or lay down for more than 20 seconds without getting jolted up uncontrollably out of bed or off the toilet. I got up and was walkin around the halls (getting yelled at in the meantime) cuz it was physically impossible to stay in that tiny room, i ahd to keep moving, regardless of the other w/d symptoms i was having. Eventually they threatned to put me in a restraint chair/ and send me to the psych ward if i didnt get in my room. it was about 12 am at this point. ididnt kno wat else to do, i knocked on my girls door to let her kno wat was up but there was no way i was gettin strapped in a restraint chair in that condition. I calld my pops for a ride from my roomates smuggled phone and i ran out the only unlocked door, the fire door. I was in this condition ALL NIGHT even at home and i was so frantic on wat to do; i was forced to ride it out and finally was able to lay still at like 8 am and slept till 3 pm. Woke up and felt alrite but still not 100%. so i got dope. (kill me). Continued to use esp with the guilt of leavin my girl in a detox alone. Now this time i decide to stop, and i thought this was a sure thing this time. I got some subutex from a friend who went into a detox and didnt need em. I thought there wud b less chance of it throwin me into w/d cuz it doest have the nalaxone in it like subs do. Well 2 days ago from today i did only 5 bags in the middle of the day after doing 25 the day before. IT was my last of the 30 i had. SO i didnt do anything all taht night and slept and all. I woke up at about 8:30 and was pretty fuckin sick. I held off till about 10:30/11:30 and had to figure suttin out. i figured i try shootin like 2 mg of the subutex hopin for some relief. and i ate the other 6mg sublingually. about 10 mins later i was alot sickker than i was normally and it was BAD. honestly NOT as bad as the time of detox, but BAD. i was forced to lie ot my pops to get hte spare car, get my gf to make him tell her where the spare was cuz i cant drive nad he knew i was sick. told em i needed to get to a meth clinic (which are havens, only time i dont feel sick is on like 45 mg's of methadone all day n night im okay) made her drive me to the hood and get some bags, shot like 2, and it did barely nuttin, had like 5 more so i shot 4 and gave her 1. i actually felt SOMEWHAT OKAY, and mind u this is like 4 ish now cuz we got in an accident on the way down (which the wait was HELLLLLL). i still felt bad tho, and the sickness came back full effect about an hour or so later. I went BACK DOWN and got 6 bags, it was about 5:30 now and i shot 3 and got the WORSTE CRAZY PINS N NEEDLES OF MY LIFE!!!! i didnt kno wtf was goin on i thought i was gonna OD, and it was decent good everyday dope. i guess it was the reaction from breakin the sub, cuz after iwas sooo much better. Now i had 3 bags extra and i did 1 last night. and the 2 bag mini shot this morning. I really wanna stop and im thinking about gettin some bags and just doin 1 bag shots wen i feel horribly sick for a day or two then wait and take a sub, hopefully that will make the w/d's that bad or at least barely have any dope in me to fuck the sub up AGAIN. cuz i dont kno wat to do. do you think sinc ei did most of the dope besides this mornings mini shot with sub in my system ill be decently safe taken a sub next time i get sick, whenever taht happens. or shud i ween off first. I realy need to stop doin dope but icant stand w/d's and the precipitated w/d's ARE TEN TIMES FUCKIN WORSE> i NEVER EVER wanna feel that way AGAIN. ESP with no moeny and no ride. omg, how horrible these experiences were, its making me really think i shudnt be on sub and shud maybe go to a meth clinic. please someone help ASAP, i gotta get my shit striaght.

Thanks for listening to the rant, but this has been a HUUGE problem and wat ive gone thru is unthinkable.


I was going to say that sounded like someone I know then I looked at your username. :o Sorry to hear you guys went through that shit and I'm glad you're trying to get clean now.

I have been though some pretty fucking awful experiences with doctors and hospitals around bupe which caused me to relapse (my stories are on page 1 and 5). I have never gone through precipitated withdrawal because I read so much about bupe from these megathreads and have been extremely careful, but I'm sure it was hell for you.

The first rule you should follow when dealing with bupe is: DO NOT TRUST DOCTORS OR ANY STAFF. Ever, or at least until you are sure they are competent but even then that can backfire. Read these threads and trust the experienced people here on bluelight who know way more about bupe than any doctor. Learn everything these is to know about bupe and read peoples experiences and then trust yourself before listening to some idiot who has never been addicted to anything in their life.

That doctor was a complete fucking moron and should have never let you start on bupe after waiting ~12 hours or less on a 30 bag a day habit. That is the type of shit I would sue for malpractice except addict generally don't look good against doctors in court unless you have a damn good lawyer, so it sucks they can get away with that. I know your experience was hell but do not let that deter you from getting clean with the help of bupe. If you're using now then wait at least 36 hours after your last dose before starting suboxone. You should be feeling pretty shitty in full withdrawal by then and suboxone will be a huge relief instead of a nightmare once you get it.

Take some benzos to hold you over if it gets unbearable. I would avoid clonidine since they take your blood pressure and are looking for it to be high showing you are in WD before dosing. That aside, I have tried taking it then taking bupe shortly after and my blood pressure was so low I was almost passing out every time I stood up and my vision would go black and I would get really dizzy.

Just stay with it and things will work out. I would recommend you go on maintenance with bupe (not sure if you were trying to rapid detox or not) since not having cravings and not being able to get high on 24-32mgs of bupe is a blessing and will help prevent you from relapsing. Learn from my mistakes- once on maintenance do not try shooting bupe or fucking with needles again. Some people in this thread do it with success and it is talked about a lot but for most people who had an IV addiction IVing bupe will only lead to bad things. Find a competent bupe doctor/program and stick with it. Don't try fucking with your dose or getting high off it. I know the idea of shooting it with antihistamines sounds great but it's not worth the risk. Even if a low dose could hold you being at 16mg+ is a great safety net to prevent cravings and the ability to go back to dope if you feel like it one day and get in a mindset where all you can think about is getting dope, and you will probably do it. While 2mgs might eventually hold you, the cravings get insane and you will be back to dope pretty quick. After that happened to me it was probably around the last time I saw you.... :|
 
Anyway onto my problem... I'm looking into different options for rehab or outpatient counseling and like 90% of these places are vehemently against bupe saying it should only be used for detox and maintenance is evil and that I would need to go into a detox before entering their programs.

For one, I really don't agree with that philosophy and it's unfortunate since a few of these places sound like they could really help me with a lot of my issues that aren't directly related to substance abuse and get me back into the world again. I would even consider detoxing I just don't know how I can trust a place and buy into their methods if they don't believe in bupe maintenance. I have a REALLY hard time trusting doctors and anyone who specializes in addiction after my experiences. After reading bluelight, doing lot of independent research reading journal articles and educating myself about pharmacology I find myself constantly criticizing and challenging doctors whenever they spew misinformation or total BS. It hasn't really helped things in my recovery. I know I am smarter than a lot of them and definitely know more about the pharmacology than most of them and that's getting in the way of me being able to get help with the things I actually need to.

It seems there is a big split in philosophies in the addiction treatment field and I just can't go into many of these programs since I don't agree with their philosophies. I can't take people seriously and get anything out of treatment where people spew BS and don't know what they're talking about when it comes to certain technical things. I feel like I would be better off ignorant and just going with the flow of whatever they say and buying into a higher power and all that crap but I'm an intelligent person and that's not who I am.

Has anyone been to or know of a good rehab or program that embraces bupe maintenance as part of it?
 
Yeah but it's 6 hours south of you. :(

Plus I have no idea if they're accepting new patients.

That's ok and actually preferable to staying in NY. If there is a residential type program that is really good and helps you with sober living and transition back into school, work, or whatever I would go almost anywhere.
 
Help

After over a year of using heroin recreationally, since Christmas I have been using every day, and realise that I have become an addict with a habit.

It is a habit I want to kick, but am unsure to the best way how. Do I tell my doctor? And should I get a script?

If so which route? Methadone or Subutex?
 
capt heroin, you say iv subutex and iv suboxone have the same effects. have u tried iv subutex at least once or twice to verify this? because i was just reading the case studies thread and the pdf of the 10 subutex complication studies in malaysia, and at the end of it they stressed that suboxone would replace tex because "when being injected into the blood, produces a much less euphoric effect"... is there any way the naloxone could block a certain part of the bupe high?
 
not possible for the naloxone to have any effect even when IV, because the bupe has a greater affinity for receptors than the naloxone
 
After over a year of using heroin recreationally, since Christmas I have been using every day, and realise that I have become an addict with a habit.

It is a habit I want to kick, but am unsure to the best way how. Do I tell my doctor? And should I get a script?

If so which route? Methadone or Subutex?

Subutex.

I don't know how you brits run the Sub clinics over there, sorry.

capt heroin, you say iv subutex and iv suboxone have the same effects. have u tried iv subutex at least once or twice to verify this? because i was just reading the case studies thread and the pdf of the 10 subutex complication studies in malaysia, and at the end of it they stressed that suboxone would replace tex because "when being injected into the blood, produces a much less euphoric effect"... is there any way the naloxone could block a certain part of the bupe high?

No, naloxone does not block any part of the buprenorphine high. Trust me I get high on buprenorphine all day long. If there was any "blocking" it I would have relapsed.

The only reason why someone would think Subutex is a better high is if you're not micron filtering. Suboxone has more inactives. If you can't reasonably filter it out efficiently, then Subutex has a higher proportion of buprenorphine.

I have not IV'd Subutex but look forward to trying it soon. To this day I have only had Suboxone.

People are scared of naloxone and most people need not be. You can be scared of naloxone if you're on heroin, but buprenorphine out-competes naloxone for the mu-opioid receptor.
 
Subutex.

I don't know how you brits run the Sub clinics over there, sorry.



Which out of Methdone or subutex would be best considering I have a high chance of using again? As although I want to stop I struggle considerably with the desire to use again.

What treatment is most effective at combating these cravings?
 
Which out of Methdone or subutex would be best considering I have a high chance of using again? As although I want to stop I struggle considerably with the desire to use again.

What treatment is most effective at combating these cravings?

Well it's different for each individual.

If you have a high chance of relapse, you might like methadone more as it is a full agonist.

However, if methadone does not work for you, it's harder to switch to Subutex. Not impossible, just trickier.

You can use Subutex, and if it doesn't work for you, you can get on methadone, and that's a lot easier. That's why I suggested Subutex first.

Best of luck little dragon jones!
 
Thank you.

This evening I have tried subutex and whislt it is working quite effectively for my partner it's not having the same effect on me. It has actually made me feel quite sick.
 
Thank you.

This evening I have tried subutex and whislt it is working quite effectively for my partner it's not having the same effect on me. It has actually made me feel quite sick.

Maybe you should have done some basic homework (like read the first page of this thread) before trying it without a doctor. You're having precipitated withdrawal. 8(
 
Maybe you should have done some basic homework (like read the first page of this thread) before trying it without a doctor. You're having precipitated withdrawal. 8(

I was under the impression that if you haven't done any heroin for a while then it's fine to take the subutex, so how long is long enough? We've both been 24 hours now without any heroin, and my partner isn't experiencing any sickness and says the subutex have made him fine whereas I'm not getting what he's getting from it.. just a slight feeling of nausea.
 
Has anyone been to or know of a good rehab or program that embraces bupe maintenance as part of it?

Nassau Central Guidance Center. Long Island

Its in Plainview or Hicksville, close to the LIE. Its an outpatient place. I used to goto 1 or 2 groups a week then 1 private session. They gave me subs there. You had to be in the program to see the doc ofcoarse. My doctor left after I had left, but I am pretty sure he was replaced. I just looked on the suboxone website and it had 2 docs listed at what I think was the address of the place, def the town and street.
Also they take insurance, and dont come after you for copays. I owe prob 200, but they havent tried to collect it and its been over a year.

Also there is Cornerstone in NYC, and in westbury L.I. Its outpatient, and I think they do sub maint also. I went upstate to their inpatient place in Rhinebeck but wouldn't recommend it for anybody wanting to stay clean. It was court mandated, so pretty much everybody there was mandated for violating parole after doing a 6+ year bid... Not fun. Plus the doc was letting me take xanax still, and gave me methadone and I didn't think I was gonna make it. They pretty much put everybody on seroquil so they wouldnt take over the staff.
 
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To littledragon

Whats your tolerance like? As long as you were in withdrawl when you dosed the subs then i doubt your in precipetated withdrawl. How much suboxone did you take it can take up to 24mg for some people to feel well on it.
 
So I am back on them little tasty pills.
They don't get me high but its either Buprenorphine or Methadone that keeps the cravings away and the cravings are destroying my whole life. No work, no appartment, nothing..

I have other medication for social anxiety, depression and sleep disorders and they do work on the social plan and as a countereffect against Depr. & Anxiety but not for cravings.. I always have the urge for heroin or opioids in general.. its a deep rooted feeling.

Now im thinking of trying to get into the Suboxone Maintaince Program here in Sweden.
But how the heck am I gonna start this off... talk to my perol officer? Psychologist? Doctor? Social Services?

And what about my medications like Efexor...
I guess its different from which country you come.
 
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