Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[Captain.Heroin]

CH, only some of your posts have the sig, it's weird

There's a reason for it, though I'm not remembering it at the moment.

I find if I edit my post, it corrects that.

Thanks Captain.Heroin I was just coming back here to look for the mega thread. You just just made it quite a bit simpler.

I did see your links in another post earlier and I did read over a lot of the 'noob info', welcome info, etc earlier. Sorry, I thought I was posting in the right area. Thanks for moving it and straigtening me out

It's OK!

We tend to keep questions in the various mega threads such as this, because it reduces forum clutter.

In the link OD forum standards, there is a clause against "self-serving" posts, which basically encourages threads subjects to be applicable to more than one person. (I.E. This is my tolerance, this is what I have, am I going to get high? = self serving thread) - it's not a bad thing to answer these questions in Other Drugs, we just tend to keep it to mega threads and pre-existing threads. In Basic Drug Discussion you can post threads like that, and people will give you feed back.

I'm glad to hear you're feeling better! Suboxone is amazing like that.

Your brother said to wait 18 hours or so, because buprenorphine is a pretty long lasting opiate. You can take full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine, but it's essentially not "worth" it, if you intend on getting "high".

 

[itsjustme2]

Just a little update too ...

It's been about 3 1/2 hours now and the little bit of pain relief is gone and the little bit of 'somewhat happier feeling' is gone.

About an hour ago I did notice a slight headache and a very tiny bit of nausea. Of course I don't know if this is from actual WD symptoms or a side effect of the bupe.

Either way though its certainly not enough for me to really complain about because most importantly ... all the horrible WD symptoms are gone :D

Hopefully I'll either find some of my percs or a few more of these to get me through. Next month I *will* have someone else to keep my pills and ration me daily. I simply have absolutely no will power what-so-ever. If they're there I'll take em! Grrr! I get so damned angry with myself!

 

[itsjustme2]

I thought i saw someone asking if there was an easy and cheap way to get off opiates at home. Well, it's not easy, but I know what can easy wd symptoms. So just PM me if you want to know. I don't want to post it here for a few reasons.. but it helped me.
Just the word withdrawals makes me want to throw up!

Sidenote.. this mostly works for people who have a moderate opiate pill addiction, not heroin or anything stronger than pain pills.

Nope, nothing stronger than pain pills. I would PM you but since we're both greenlighters neither of us would be able to send.

 

[SideTracked]

Nope, nothing stronger than pain pills. I would PM you but since we're both greenlighters neither of us would be able to send.

Craftypisces
I would also like to know what your advice is, but can't send a PM
I want to get off of these so freakin bad, the WD are the only thing that stops me. I can't take time off work to be sick. I wish I had never started taking these f'in things!

 

[fm1983]

Anyway ... my brother did mention about not taking any of my percs for at least 12 - 18 hours? I didn't have a chance to ask him why. Anyone know why he said that? I took this about 7 PM - would I be able to take one of my percs at say about 7:30 tomorrow morning?

Hope I'm not being too much of a pest!

If you took a subxone at 7pm, you can take a perc when you wakeup, however the effects are going to be highly diminished. Bupe has a higher afinity to the recepters and will in turn block other opiates.

Are you aware of precipitated w/d? If you take a perc, and then a couple hours later take suboxone. you will be thrown into w/d. They will be short lived, but suck regardless. It is important to wait a minimum 12-16hrs after your last perc dose, or in full w/d. You should then not experience any Precip w/d.

 

[Craftypisces]

Itsjustme... I sent you an email. SideTracked, enable your email on here and I will email you.
I know how it feels. Wd is hell. I was on Tabs for a brain tumor and pain associated with that. I started out on the right path, but eventually started taking them like candy. I'm just an addict I guess. Now I won't go near them.. I just hope I never get sick enough to need them again. (unlikely!)

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Just a little update too ...

It's been about 3 1/2 hours now and the little bit of pain relief is gone and the little bit of 'somewhat happier feeling' is gone.

About an hour ago I did notice a slight headache and a very tiny bit of nausea. Of course I don't know if this is from actual WD symptoms or a side effect of the bupe.

Either way though its certainly not enough for me to really complain about because most importantly ... all the horrible WD symptoms are gone :D

Hopefully I'll either find some of my percs or a few more of these to get me through. Next month I *will* have someone else to keep my pills and ration me daily. I simply have absolutely no will power what-so-ever. If they're there I'll take em! Grrr! I get so damned angry with myself!

Good luck! What you're experiencing might be a side effect of the buprenorphine, or part of the opiate withdrawal itself.

 

[itsjustme2]

Itsjustme... I sent you an email. SideTracked, enable your email on here and I will email you.
I know how it feels. Wd is hell. I was on Tabs for a brain tumor and pain associated with that. I started out on the right path, but eventually started taking them like candy. I'm just an addict I guess. Now I won't go near them.. I just hope I never get sick enough to need them again. (unlikely!)

Oh wow - didn't even notice that option! Thanks! I got your email. I don't know if I'll get to reply tonight yet or in the morning. It's getting pretty late here and surprisingly I'm tired. I was afraid this was going to be a horrible night but maybe now it won't be so bad. I did take a couple of generic pm's after doing a lot of reading to see if it'd be okay for me to.

For someone like me who used to love pills ... it's not so great anymore. I mean don't get my wrong ... I love em ... but it's a real love hate relationship I've got. I would love to get to the source of my pain and finally get rid of these once and for all. If I was able to get off these ... I'd have to be in some immense pain before I'd ever touch any of them again. I too started out for total legitimate reasons but unfortunately those legitimate reasons are still there.

 

[itsjustme2]

If you took a subxone at 7pm, you can take a perc when you wakeup, however the effects are going to be highly diminished. Bupe has a higher afinity to the recepters and will in turn block other opiates.

Are you aware of precipitated w/d? If you take a perc, and then a couple hours later take suboxone. you will be thrown into w/d. They will be short lived, but suck regardless. It is important to wait a minimum 12-16hrs after your last perc dose, or in full w/d. You should then not experience any Precip w/d.

Thanks for the warning ... I greatly appreciate it! However, I am aware of all that. My brother forewarned me. I didn't know the exact reasons until I came here but I knew enough to trust he knows what he's talking about. How ironic ... for once in his lifetime little bro is helping me out for a change!

I waited today until I was really feeling w/d - and then even waited more. Then I still took very, very little just to be on the safe side all the way around.

I've taken a lot and some people would probably freak out knowing what I've taken but that said ... I'm still super careful. No matter what I still have 2 kids that I need to be here for.

 

[itsjustme2]

Good luck! What you're experiencing might be a side effect of the buprenorphine, or part of the opiate withdrawal itself.

Thats what I was thinking but really in comparison to what I was heading towards this is a simple (almost fun at one point) walk in the park!

Thanks so very much for all your help and support! It means alot!

P.S. Congrats on your 18+ months clean of the H! That's awesome!
(I read that somewhere in another post.)

 

[itsjustme2]

About taking gabapentin for WD ...

Some have been privately recommending that I take gabapentin to help w/ WD symptoms. I've tried that. As a matter of fact that was one of the meds my doc tried to prescribe me before for pain.

Ack! I absolutely 100% hate those things so much! I cannot stand the way they make me feel. I had found a bottle that I had gotten at the time - dang near full - and thought I'd give it a try for WD (after reading several experiences). I figured they didn't work for the pain maybe they'll at least come in handy for this. I was quickly reminded why I hated them so much. I simply cannot stand them.

They make me so nervous, jittery, disoriented, confused, can't concentrate ... oh I could go on. All that seemed to do for me was intensify the wd symptoms.

And I was so hoping that would be my miracle help after reading so many success stories especially when I have plenty of those.

But thanks for all the suggestions! Any help is always welcome!

Edited to add: I'm assuming Lyrica is similar?

 

[Craftypisces]

Lyrica is actually not as annoying as Gabapentin. I wouldn't be the person to ask about how that drug works vs Gabapentin/Neurontin, but it helped me during wd immensely. I didn't like Gabapentin at all, but had to take it at night. I had a brain tumor that was causing my face to go numb and the Gaba was helping me regain feeling and combat the pain. I couldn't stand to take those things during the day though. Lyrica, for me, is so much better than Gabapentin. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Craftypisces]

I know what you mean. I'm a pill freak. I attribute it to my parents who were alway shoveling pills down my throat if I even mentioned a headache or I sneezed more than once. My mom gave me a bottle of oxy's for menstrual cramps and a bottle of Lortab. She just didn't understand the addictive qualities in the drugs. I had my gallbladder out at 19 and two other surgeries in the following years b/c my body just freaks out. Fibromyalgia makes you so much more sensitive to pain or the body's basic functions. Honestly, it's so odd to me.
But I know what you mean, I loved those pills. They were my best little friends that I kept in my purse.
But they are also little demons. After awhile they didn't even help my pain. They just made me not care about it as much. Sorry if I'm rambling, I took three Lyrica 50mg and I am feeling a little stoned. (speaking of pills... ha)

 

[itsjustme2]

I was thinking about the Lyrica and I do remember that not too long after my surgery the doctor had given me a couple of Lyrica samples. I don't remember how I felt on them but I do remember that they didn't help w/ the pain.

A couple of doctors I've seen have speculated that the pain I'm experiencing is because a nerve(s) got caught in some scar tissue as I was healing after the surgery. But none of the nerve meds we've tried have done anything for the pain. So it makes me wonder - if those types of meds don't work - is it indeed a nerve thats causing this pain?

A little bit of background w/out writing a story here ... I had a lobe of one of my lungs removed because of an infectious mass that simply wouldn't heal w/ no amount of antibiotics and well it was a mass, it just had to be removed. Luckily it was not cancerous. And the pain from after the surgery just never went away. I often regret having the surgery but I have to remember that it was necessary ... I didn't have a choice ... and I remember the pain that I had before the surgery was just unbelievable. It was a constant pain to begin with and then every once in a while I'd get a shooting pain that was strong enough to literally stop my heart from beating, took my breath away and stopped me dead in my tracks. As long as I keep reminding myself of what it was like before the surgery I don't feel so damned sorry for myself for being where I am today.

I'm starting to see this trend a lot as I do some research. A lot of these pill addictions start w/ a legitimate reason for being on them. I'll never forget the day it finally dawned on me that I wasn't just dealing w/ a mental addiction but a physical one too.

And to think I quickly got myself off oxy's after the surgery because I was afraid of getting addicted. Yeah, a lot of good that did me!

 

[itsjustme2]

Update ...
It was a bit after one that I finally went to bed. And even though I felt really tired from the PMs I took ... I just laid in bed for I don't know how long trying to fall asleep. I felt tired but the sleep just wasn't coming.

This morning I woke up, took the kids to school and at about 8:00 I took another perc. I fully believed I wouldn't feel anything from it ... unbelievably, I did. (Let's just say I was one happy camper about that!)

Now the thought of precipitated w/d scares the hell out me, lol so it'll be quite later today before I take another dose of bupe. Yesterday I took a perc at 7:30 and then took the bupe about 7 that evening. I did very well w/ that so I think I'll stick to that today.

 

[itsjustme2]

I know what you mean. I'm a pill freak. I attribute it to my parents who were alway shoveling pills down my throat if I even mentioned a headache or I sneezed more than once. My mom gave me a bottle of oxy's for menstrual cramps and a bottle of Lortab. She just didn't understand the addictive qualities in the drugs. I had my gallbladder out at 19 and two other surgeries in the following years b/c my body just freaks out. Fibromyalgia makes you so much more sensitive to pain or the body's basic functions. Honestly, it's so odd to me.
But I know what you mean, I loved those pills. They were my best little friends that I kept in my purse.
But they are also little demons. After awhile they didn't even help my pain. They just made me not care about it as much. Sorry if I'm rambling, I took three Lyrica 50mg and I am feeling a little stoned. (speaking of pills... ha)

Yes, I love my pills. I've loved pills since high school. Although there were many years in between when I was using in high school and how I take them now. Aside from the occasional legitimate reason I may have gotten a small script here and there. A few weeks on them for whatever pain I was in ... then when the script ran all that was it ... the fun was over. But as I said yesterday it really is a love / hate kind of relationship. It kind of ruins the fun when you're forced to take them.

Oxy & Loratab for cramps! Holy crap! And here I didn't like giving my daughter a bunch of alieve for hers! Well ya gotta love mom for doing her best to keep you pain free ... but wow ... talk about over doing it!

 

[itsjustme2]

And now I'm (almost) patiently waiting till I can take another dose of bupe again ...

Ya know, letting myself run this low has to have been my biggest screw up yet!

 

[Pegasus]

I've been experimenting in the days leading up to quitting bupe taken daily, taking doses of poppy pod tea/ eating poppy pods, and it seems to help me titrate the sub down quicker. I won't have any w/ds for around two days after taking the pod tea (because of all the alkaloids still kicking around)... I of course waited till near when w/ds would kick in to take the pods, and then went back on the sub the day after the two days covered by the pods (basically, nearly four days later).

I'm at a really low dose of bupe daily (maybe 0.2mg/day insuffulated nasally), and am thinking these long breaks (almost four days), if I fit in like one more within the next few days, will help a lot with the sub withdrawal because I have been covered by another opiate for a pretty substantial amount of time (something like 7-8 out of 9-10 days). It seemed to go as I expected for the first four-day stint, and I feel that I may have been able to hold off of the sub even longer, but I was having quite a bad day and caved in to taking the dose.

Anyways, the idea here is taking another opiate in the weaning stages from bupe so that your body is not dependent solely on bupe for it's effects. The opiate addiction itself will linger, of course, but will be weakened by the drop in tolerance from each drug from the time taken off of it (especially the 7-8 days of 10 without Suboxone...!) I suspect that this could be easily done with other opiates rather than poppy pods, but I do think the long half-life which can allow you to go 2-3 days without feeling withdrawals can be helpful!

I should add that I am addicted to benzodiazepines to a somewhat small degree as well, (...more like at the end of my month of use and time to taper off), but anyways, that makes my 0.2mg bupe definitely stronger than it would have been on it's own. That's why I don't just drop off the dose right from here... I know from past experience that I will get w/ds pretty bad even from stopping all at once from 0.2mg bupe combined with a benzo daily. This time, I intend to not stop all at once (as described above, and also, by skipping days between doses before quitting altogether. I think both of these things should make for a much smoother taper off...)

 

[Lando138]

If it wasn't for BL i never would have known/thought of taking such a tiny amount of sub.

BollWeevil, or anyone else doing the same thing, at which point do you jump off then? 0.2 is really small, especially when you compare it to how much some people take. I would think eventually your body would just get so little out of a tiny dose that you could stop and it wouldn't notice. I don't know, sub is a really strange drug.

Also, i recently dropped from 8mg's to 2mg's without any real wd's. That was about 2 weeks ago. Would it be ok to drop again at this point to 1mg? Basically i'm doing this in an attempt to lower my tolerance.

 

[Znegative]

BollWeevil,
after many days off the bupe, do you get high when you take it? The reason I'm asking, is I'm on this quest to get off on my subs. I already I.V them, and do no more than 1 mg a day. I'm trying to go lower than that. I'm already getting decent effects from the suboxone, a definate mood lift and energy, but it's not like the high you get when you havn't taken opiates in a long time and you take a little suboxone.

I figure that the less suboxone I take, and the longer I wait between doses, the more I will feel each dose. However, that also means putting up with feeling shitty a lot of the time. I'm hesitant to do it, because I fear that even if I do get off on it after a period of abstinance, than my tolerance will just get so high that the next time I dose it wont be the same. Does anyone know if there is a certain dosage, that if given regularly at different intervals, would be low enough, that your suboxone level is always below the cieling effect, so each dose you feel high?

Sorry, this is kind of a rambling question, I just want to know if tapering down like this does pay off. It seems to be alot better than high dosages, and I guess my question is, can it become a real "buzz".