2 Years on Sub: Trials & Tribulations, Finally an End in Sight 
1).....
2) I've been on Suboxone for over 14 months now, and I'll be on it for a while longer. I am aware it might be difficult to discontinue, and I am aware that the drug has built up levels of itself in my system. Some mornings I wake up without withdrawal symptoms, that is what I'm really aiming for. I feel fine using buprenorphine for the long term - though all may not obviously. I do find it important to let people know that the long term use of any opiate can cause much more unpleasant effects instead of using them for the short term.
I was on it for 13 months and even thou it didn't steal my soul like dope did, I still saw a change in my personality that sub did to me. I did like being on it but once I got off I became a totally different person, seriously. People automatically notice now that someting good is going on with me, My posture changed, energy levels and more.
I totally respect your choice as I was on it for much longer than my closest peeps wanted me to be on it but once u r ready at least try to do a few weeks of being off sub, And use tramadol which any doc will give you. I got like 3 refills of 60 50mg pills just by going to some doc and asking for it. It WILL hold you almost 100% after stopping sub, something that greatly surprised me. I also used Zofran and Clonidine for several days once I stopped tramadol.
Can I ask why u choose to stay on it still? Don't want to derail the thread but I'm just really curious. My reasons were fear of chronic pain which I had really bad before getting into opiates and surprisingly it got better now to the point that I don't need meds for it, other than an occasional aleve here and there.
I’ve been on Suboxone since January 5, 2009, with one (pseudo) “break.” That is, initially I was scripted 8mg b.i.d. (twice daily) and stayed at that clinic for 6 months, until June ’09 when my doc and nurse practitioner left. I followed them to their new practice and officially got back on bupe November 11, 2009, this time with a script for t.i.d. (3 times daily, thus 24mg). Although not “officially” on it from June to November of last year, that first 6 months I never took (actually, I snorted it) more than 8mg and I “cycled.” By that I mean that I was able to actually
get high 4 to 5 days out of the week as I never snorted more than 8mg/day: I took 4mg roughly 50% of the time, 2mg 25% and 8mg 25% of the time,
plus I took two sometimes three 24 hour “detox” periods off each week. Thus, I squirreled enough away that I was able to continue taking Sub, even though I wasn’t scripted it, during aforementioned period last year.
Therefore, I’ve been on Suboxone for
22 consecutive months now ![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
[Caveat to what I’m about to convey: Not only are people’s bodies different, but from the time I was initially put on Suboxone until August of last year, I was under
immense stress with many environmental variables to consider/with which to contend; therefore, my experience with Sub the first 7-8 months may differ markedly from the experience of others.]
I should also mention that
I’ve actually been taking bupe for more than 22 months as I was dependent on opioids, albeit not for the first time, for 10 months prior to enrolling in the first Sub program… I had found a source for Temgesic and later Subutex and, as I was in graduate school and bupe doesn’t show up on drug screens, I could obtain it with virtually no risk of legal repercussions as opposed to buying opioids on “the street,” and I truly loved the partial mu agonist high- if I just chilled, it felt like a full agonist and I would actually nod, yet it also somewhat paradoxically gave me energy, motivation, and a
truly unique, effective antidepressant effect allowing me to go to class, see patients, and do research relatively well- it thus became my opioid of choice for a good 5 months and hence a large part of my decision to enter a Sub program.
That first clinic truly ONLY cared about money and the director was a douche- the only reason I was there is I first knew the Sub doc professionally and he’s the most competent psychiatrist I’ve ever met- he didn’t like how they did shit, so he and his nurse practitioner, who’s ten times more knowledgeable and compassionate than any doc I’ve met, quit. That way my doc could run a medication-assisted program the way it
should be run: I went from just taking piss tests every week and accomplishing zilch with an AA-level counselor to working with the only therapist who has ever helped me, a PhD level psychologist and full professor who accurately worked from a harm-reduction paradigm and had an existential orientation, which was really incredible.
When I found out they were leaving, I simply got my month’s script and left. I didn’t transfer to their new clinic right away as I was (and still am) broke. Instead, after trying to taper off Sub somewhat gradually yet unsuccessfully as I always went back up in dose after 48 hrs, I stopped abruptly. W/Ds hit at the 36 hr mark as expected. At around the 48 hour mark, I lost ALL motivation and became completely apathetic; by 72 hours it was less apathy and more clinical depression. I literally was unable to even get off the sofa, I simply lay there and suffered, not eating or drinking even- I’m sure my wife made me eat something at some point, but I don’t remember. I was on that sofa for 10 days.
I expected the W/Ds to get better over time; however, they got worse. By day 7, the physiological aspect wasn’t troubling, however the psychological one was. On the night of the tenth day, I attempted suicide, ended up in the psych ward.
Forgive me if this is turning into a “war story” or autobiography, I simply want to make clear some of the circumstances that undoubtedly influenced my experience with Suboxone. See, in February ’08, I’d been completely clean from not only drugs but booze as well for 5 years, and in that time I’d managed to earn a Bachelors in Psychology (while still working full-time), be accepted to a non-terminal PhD program in Clinical Psychology, marry the woman I’d been living with for 3.5 years then (literally two days later!) move across the country to enter said PhD program.
However, that February ’08 my wife began having
severe panic attacks as well as
psychotic episodes , seemingly out of the blue. Her primary care physician put her on a high dose (12mg/day
) of Xanax and a well-respected PhD psychologist recommended immediate institutionalization. As it turns out, she’s not crazy… After 7 years, she’d started drinking, and when she’s drunk, she literally is clinically psychotic. None of the professionals she saw picked up on this, I thought I smelled booze once but it could have simply been that her blood sugar was so high (she’s insulin-dependent); it wasn’t until 2 weeks of this hell that I found the first bottle (two 750ml bottles a day of 100 proof, no food or meds- that became her norm when drinking, after 3-5 days of this her pancreas would hurt so bad she’d have to be hospitalized).
Point is, the next 18 months I would either be living with my wife, fresh out of yet another treatment, or more often a fucking crazy person- the longest she had sober during that period was a few months. That’s a large part of why I started using after being clean 5 years.
When I got out of the psych ward for the suicide attempt that occurred when I was trying to kick Suboxone, I gave her an ultimatum, she moved to another state into a half-way house. I was then left to my own devices beginning August ’09. I went to my Sub doc’s new clinic, although I wasn’t on Sub at the time- they do other stuff too. In a short period I got really into full agonists which culminated with scoring some high quality coke (as I stated before, I stuck to pharms and stayed away from “street drugs” for fear of legal issues). I hadn’t done coke since college- my first attempt at college, not when I was clean and got my Bachelors- back then I was under investigation by the DEA, my room was raided and although LOTS and LOTS of benzos and opioid pills were recovered, no coke and surprisingly no arrest; however, I got out of the state, and got clean, shortly after that raid
In the past, I’d only snorted coke, of course this time I couldn’t wait to slam it. I OD’ed but didn’t go to the hospital. That was scary, but what was far worse was I knew from one night it was more addictive than crack, the high was so euphoric I was prepping 3 shots at a time. The comedown was the worst comedown I’ve ever had, serendipitously I had an appt with the nurse practitioner that Wednesday, Nov. 11 ‘09 (had been shooting on a Thursday through Friday), told her the story, she gave me Sub in her office that very day, it immediately took away my cravings for IV coke which were still intense after that single 36ish hour binge.
Again, although I’ve essentially been on Sub maint. the last 22 months (plus five mos use prior to that), when I changed from one clinic to another there were a LOT of environmental things that changed as well. I’d attempted suicide and gotten heavily into drugs albeit for a short time; on the plus side, I was now living alone, no more psychotic drunk in the house. That change, as well as how I’ve taken my Sub, has made it truly like being on Suboxone a second time, it’s that different. Granted, I spent the first several months spending 5-6 days a week in bed I was so depressed, not from the Sub simply digesting all the frantic hell of the previous 18 mos as well as feeling sorry for myself (I’d dropped out of grad school summer ’09, poor me I’ll never be “Dr. Faust,” plus I couldn’t even get a job at a fast food joint- of course I was so down I made others not want to be around me and it comes off as insincere when you try to fake it yet are so depressed and isolated it’s as if you’ve lost all your social skills as well as social awareness).
Eventually, after many months of depression and anxiety manifested as extreme avoidance behaviors (sleeping for 3-4 days at a time), I pulled myself out of it enough that I was at least able to look for work- albeit with no success- and take my Suboxone on a fairly regular schedule.
Nevertheless, I kinda hated being on it, so for that or some other reason(s) of which I’m not yet aware I have consistently quit cold turkey every 2 weeks or so, usually for 48 hours up to 72. It’s MUCH different though, in that although I have physiological symptoms, they’re not NEARLY as troublesome as the psychological- not depression per se, but certainly ZERO motivation (not even enough to get up and take a Sub or eat some food when I want to!). Now, I felt that during those 10 days prior to the suicide attempt, but it’s been more intense now as I’m at a higher dose and/or have been on it longer, idk for sure. Fortunately it doesn’t make me suicidal- I don’t have the energy!- which is why I can’t “blame” Sub W/Ds for my suicide attempt, especially when there was so much shit going on in my life at the time… the chemical imbalance it caused simply pushed me over the brink. This time around, on a higher dose and having been on maint longer, as I said the psychological W/Ds are worse, but there is mercy in that I will sleep through it like a baby as opposed to just laying there and agonizing.
In September of this year, I got booted from the Sub program for non payment- I’ve had no insurance the whole time I’ve been on it and payment in full is expected up front if no insurance, but they were nice and just kinda let me slide with small partial payments until I’d wracked up a truly massive debt. The reason I asked for 24mg a day is that a spot had opened up and I was in the patient assist program, however I only took 16mg a day. So I’m not too concerned as I have many months squirreled away contingent on how I take it.
About a month ago, I did a 72 hour detox, then when I went back on instead of 16mg I took 8mg. (I quit snorting it some time ago, and although I’ve tried the other ROAs, I’ve been taking it SL for the last 10 mos or so- I first brush and rinse with Listerine (40 proof), then break an 8mg pill in fourths and drop it under my tongue followed by 2 ml of booze in a dropper- I found a “super secret recipe”
that’s half 70 proof liquor and half 100 proof, yet surprisingly doesn’t burn).
The first week or so after dropping from 16mg to 8mg, I felt noticeable physiological W/Ds… yet, conversely to when I would quit cold turkey, I (thank god!) didn’t suffer the psychological W/Ds.
Even during that first week, in fact the FIRST DAY that I went to 8mg, all my family and anyone that knows me were commenting that I seemed like myself for the first time they could remember. 8mg is holding me now and truly I’m beginning to feel like myself for the first time in 2 years 
I still have a TON of fear and ambiguity; that is, I don't know if I can EVER live my life completely drug free again... I could sure stand to get off my (both scripted and "self-prescribed") high dose of daily benzos, and booze is truly a poor man's drug- I can enjoy a glass of good Scotch but if I'm trying to catch a buzz it's futile. And I could (and have as of late) do without the IV midazolam binges or the IV Ritalin plus pentazocine (also in pill form; btw,
yes you can get high off pentazocine while on bupe maint., in fact I found the best way is bupe and pent in the same barrel so that bupe's kappa antagonism keeps pent's agonism in check- I started a thread on it).
However, to live without ANY "added" mu activity... that will take some time. ATM, my goal is simply to continue to lower my Sub dose... I would LOVE to be able to catch a buzz off it again, hell, if I could get my tolerance down to almost nothing, use only bupe and no full agonists and not do it daily, I'd be quite content
(thing I like about bupe used recreationally is the built in incentive NOT to use it daily and NOT to increase dose as you will lose the high!).
As I stated, there have been a lot of variables that may make others’ experiences with Suboxone maintenance FAR different from mine. However, if I have one piece of advice it’s that if you get on bupe, within a few days of your induction try to drop to as low a dose as will hold you. If you’ve been on it a while, consider tapering down slowly (don’t have to go as quickly as I did, I was advised 6 mos!)- you can begin to taper on your own without your doc telling you to, for some, if you leave it up to them you may be on it for life
