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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v.4 The Orangeman Cometh

deficiT said:
Old Thread Here

What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:




Other Notes:
Frequently Asked Questions

Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541906
. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.

Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.

Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.

Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.

Suboxone Mega Thread Directory - Other links about buprenorphine in Other Drugs

Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use**
Buprenex - should I IM or IV?
Buprenorphine and Antihistamine IV FAQ
Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?
Buprenorphine dosages commonly prescribed are unnecessarily high
Buprenorphine for depression?
Buprenorphine patches
Buprenorphine withdrawals?
Ketoconazole Potenation of Suboxone
Mephedrone and Buprenorphine
Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ - How to Micron Filter Suboxone
Nasal Administration of Suboxone - Issues
Rectal (Plugging) Buprenorphine
Suboxone in place of Naloxone in the event of an opiate overdose*
Suboxone sublingual film official thread
Subutex has gone generic
Tramadol and Suboxone

Discussion in the Suboxone mega thread goes along quite quickly, so we have a few other threads to promote intermediate/advanced discussion of buprenorphine and its formulations. These threads are meant to divert some of the more advanced discussion that otherwise becomes buried in the mega thread.

If there's another link you think which would go well in this list of related buprenorphine threads, please let me know. We're trying to reserve extra threads on buprenorphine for more intermediary/advanced discussion mostly to reserve the mega thread for a place for questions that can be answered quickly, and the other threads for a place for questions which will otherwise not get the same discussion going on in the mega thread, due to its quick pace.

If you have an idea for a new thread on buprenorphine, it's probably best to figure out by talking to a moderator first to see if it's thread worthy or should be discussed in the mega thread.

*Not Advised. Opiate antagonists are the only safe thing to do in case of an opiate overdose. Please do not give people Suboxone if they have overdosed.
**also known as "6/7's method" or "SixPartSeven's method"

Thank you for all your hard work over the years compiling this information... RIP Captain.Heroin

w/ love
- @deficiT
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I've heard you can take subs orally if you take ginger extract with it. Is this true?
 
deficiT said:
I have been on 16mg as well. It generally isn't necessary, and yeah, the constipation for me became a bloody mess. I would ask for a dose reduction, 8mg should hold you just fine, and honestly, it'd probably be better to just do a little taper and come off subs completely, if you think you can handle that and not jump back into other opioids. But if you think you'll relapse, there's no shame in maintaining on subs, you just ought to lower your dose.

I have been opioid free for a couple months now and things, well they're not great but that's mostly personal, but physically I'm starting to feel a lot better. I've always had stomach problems and they came raring back, but at least I'm not shitting blood everyday like Suboxone can do to you.
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deficiT said:
I have been on 16mg as well. It generally isn't necessary, and yeah, the constipation for me became a bloody mess. I would ask for a dose reduction, 8mg should hold you just fine, and honestly, it'd probably be better to just do a little taper and come off subs completely, if you think you can handle that and not jump back into other opioids. But if you think you'll relapse, there's no shame in maintaining on subs, you just ought to lower your dose.

I have been opioid free for a couple months now and things, well they're not great but that's mostly personal, but physically I'm starting to feel a lot better. I've always had stomach problems and they came raring back, but at least I'm not shitting blood everyday like Suboxone can do to you.
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Yeah mate i have been Down to 8mg for two weeks. Myself not from addiction services.

What I do is pocket a 8mg when they not looking or swallow one of the 8mg rendering it pretty much useless and have felt OK.

Iam. Entering residential rehab in a week and they switching me to espranor with a plan to do a weekly 2mg cut.

Thank fuck.
 
Genedefekt1985 said:
Can anyone help me out here. I have been on 16mg sublingual buprenorphine now for around 6, 7 weeks.

WTF did the doctor put me on such I high level for when I was just messin around now and again with snorting bupe, bit of oramorph, lots of tramadol, codeine, in my past smoked heroin but never got reeled in and the final one that made me cry for help was taking maybe like 300-500mg of dihydrocodeine from which I had withdrawals from but was seeking help in the form of him maybe weaning me off them slowly.

I am shitting bricks as I don't want to be on it.

Now im parked on 16mg of bupe from day 3 of me starting it.

I am UK based.

Any help greatly appreciated.
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I also was put on Buphrenorphine / Subutex for a ridiculously low dose codeine habit in the UK. (8mg per day for for 180mg of codeine per day.). Come down as much as you can asap then jump off it.
 
Hi. I got put on subutex in april last year, went up to a ridiculously high dose, 28mg, and stayed on that for about 8,5 months.
Was so tired, had intense kidney pains, hormones all fucked up (no period for like 3 months at a time) and the list goes on and on.
Started tapering 3,5 months ago and is now at 3mg/day. Just gotten stable on this dose.
I've dropped my dose, waited 3-5 days until I get stable and then I've for the most part immediately dropped again. Hasn't been comfortable but hasn't been too bad either.
I just can't wait to finally be free from this substance.
 
I'm still not stable on 3 mg, woke up in pain this morning. It's the worst drop so far so id take away 0.5 or 0.25 mg at a time instead of 1 if I was you.

Yeah my mind wanders all the time but been taking Methylphenidate, gabapentin and ketamin the last few weeks to manage the symptoms. But you just have to accept craving stuff 24/7 I'm afraid, its just about how loud the cravings are. Maybe it's not that bad with lower dose drop though. Im just stubborn about not increasing when I've gotten down lower.
Gabapentin has helped a bunch.
Hopefully you'll get your dose down @bonomoopiojo55
 
Yesterday I finally felt stabilised at 3mg, (from 4 to 3mg) it took maybe 10 days to not wake up not in withdrawals.
But feeling okay of course made me want to make another drop so I only took 2mg in the morning and 0.5 at night yesterday.
Didn't feel too shitty today after waking up, but I'll guess tomorrow and the day after will be a bit harder.

Thinking of just jumping off, take 1, 2 days on gabapentin and diazepam, then switch to oxys for 7-10 days, high dose first days, then go lower and lower, then be off it completely.
I'll have access to real oxys, and it is NOT unlimited access. That's what makes me think I could actually make this work.
What do you guys think?
 
I've read up on it several hours yesterday, and sadly it seems like I would have to suffer for a month if jumping on anything above 1 mg, and then not feel alright for several months later either. Tapering seems like the only sane solution that and I'm quite disappointed about that. I just want off this. 8-9 months on 28mg is just insane for a 3 month heroin habit 😭
 
aesthetic.addict said:
I've read up on it several hours yesterday, and sadly it seems like I would have to suffer for a month if jumping on anything above 1 mg, and then not feel alright for several months later either. Tapering seems like the only sane solution that and I'm quite disappointed about that. I just want off this. 8-9 months on 28mg is just insane for a 3 month heroin habit 😭
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28mg for a 3 month heroin habit is definitely crazy!

Hell there's not even a real need to put anyone on bupe for a 3 month long heroin habit honestly. But the whole Suboxone thing is just a racket now.
As you've probably seen, sub withdrawals can last over a month because of how long acting it is. Even if you jump off lower doses.

I once went a week without any subs & I didn't sleep that entire time. It was pretty awful. You'll definitely need a taper.

You could always try to take the lowest sub dose possible one day, see how many days you can go without it & then take that same small dose again & then repeat. Maybe eventually you'll find that you don't need another dose after a couple days.

I've been on bupe 10 years & I'll probably never get off of it at this point. I'm okay with being on opioids permanently myself, I just wish I had more options than just crappy bupe every day. It's such a mixed/crappy opioid that some days I DO wish I wasn't on it, but then other days I'm like "fuck that, I could never stop".

I wish you all the best though!
 
I have a hard time not taking it in the morning and night, but I've noticed that I can go lower much faster by dosing this way instead of the whole dose at once in the morning. Already down another half mg now actually.
Your method will probably be great for when it's time to get of completely though. I can't wait for the day when I realise I haven't taken it in weeks. ❤️
 
Still on 2mg. Since the last jump didn't even phase me I'm just toughing this one out. Nightmares and stuff, and those morning wd's are back if I'm not dosing late at night. A little harder since I've quit the k and having a small tolerance break from the gabapentin (...a few days XD)

I want my brain back NOW, please leave buprenorphine you're not wanted here
🛑✋️🧠 ✋️🛑
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
Cool, sounds more like you just wanna disagree with any opinion I give, so do whatever you want.

Kratom's weaker than buprenorphine anyway, so if you didn't like bupe, don't expect much from kratom. Especially any "antidepressant" relief.
I mean you said at first you wanted antidepressant effects, now it's just 'withdrawal relief' & then it's because of the money, etc.... So which is it? Cause I think I touched all of those boxes anyway in my answers.

Unless kratom is free where you're at, you're just gonna be burning a hole in your pocket to stay well on that, when any given dose of buprenorphine can last 24-48hrs. You say you don't care about dosing, but you also say you don't wanna be burning a hole in your pocket by having to dose all the time. So both statements contradict each other & come off like you're just being condescending toward me.

I literally have bags & bags of kratom sitting around. If it actually did anything worth while, it wouldn't still be in my possession.

Kratom is literally so weak that it's still legal here in the US. If it was even comparable to genuine opioids, it would have been made illegal along time ago.

We went from, "Does buprenorphine cause a buzz/antidepressant effect" to "Oh I don't care about a buzz! I just want to get away from the up & down dosing" to "I don't care about dosing, I'm trying to save money!"......... Okay, you just sound like a dick really at this point. Especially considering I answered all of those "concerns" with what would be the better option.

Do whatever you want though, I don't care. I was just trying to be helpful. I mean you asked on a public forum lol And I have extensive experience with both. Kratom couldn't even keep me well in buprenorphine withdrawals, let a lone rid of me of depression. But if you think it'll help you with a full agonist, then all you can do is try for yourself anyway. Buprenorphine is more versatile in that you can get a buzz from it if you're having a bad day & really need one or you can just stay well with it & it's a good mood stabilizer if you suffer from severe depression. Kratom is too weak IME for a person with a love of full agonists to really enjoy it. Not to mention it's full of other NON-opioid alkaloids that you'll be feeling as well. Including opioids antagonists & dopamine blockers. Unless you stick with pure kratom extract. At least tramadol has an active full agonist metabolite & can last up to 8hrs, so it's worth the taste.

But if you'd rather gulp down grams & grams of plant powder every day, for less effects than you'd even get from tramadol or buprenorphine, then go for it!!! I encourage you to knock yourself out & form your own damn opinion. Instead of asking on a public forum & then treating the person who answers you, like they don't know what they're talking about. Again, good luck. Actually scratch that, I really don't give a shit.
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lol, me too. Going to toss these bags of kratom taking up room in my freezer. Like you, I found it to be a needless risk, mainly health possibilities like stomach cancer or something like that. Who knows what pesticides they use in the part of the world this sit comes from?!
 
CfZrx said:
lol, me too. Going to toss these bags of kratom taking up room in my freezer. Like you, I found it to be a needless risk, mainly health possibilities like stomach cancer or something like that. Who knows what pesticides they use in the part of the world this sit comes from?!
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Kratom is total trash. lol

The extracts I can see people actually enjoying a bit, but even those are pretty mild at best.

I'll take buprenorphine over kratom any day. And I'm not a huge fan of bupe either. lol
 
Although kratom would do nothing for me at this time (thanks suboxone), I recall it being a definite opioid with constricted pupils and gravelly voice increase. That was when I was only taking 45 mg/day morphine sulfate though. It seemed better than norco/vicodin due to zero monitoring by a doctor.
 
CfZrx said:
Although kratom would do nothing for me at this time (thanks suboxone), I recall it being a definite opioid with constricted pupils and gravelly voice increase. That was when I was only taking 45 mg/day morphine sulfate though. It seemed better than norco/vicodin due to zero monitoring by a doctor.
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It must be incredibly variable.

I've tried so much different kratom over the past 10 years & I've never felt anything resembling an opioid high or euphoria. At most, it would make me a little drowsy & I'd have to lay down, similar to opioids, but wasn't enjoyable or anything in the slightest. Everyone is different though I guess.

For me, the least to best opioids I've done would be <least> loperamide, tianeptine, kratom, poppyseed tea, buprenorphine, hydrocodone, tramadol, propoxyphene, methadone, heroin <best>
I'll leave fent off that list cause I'd just prefer not to use it ever again whether it's better than kratom or not lol
 
aesthetic.addict said:
I'm getting feelings and memories back that I had forgotten existed. So it is worth it
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I love this so much.

I had been on relatively low doses of bupe but taking it IN always from 8mg tablets. For maybe a couple of years. Through various personal circumstances I have very slowly tapered from about 1mg a day back in November last year to currently 0.6mg currently. I split this dose up into a morning and night dose but am considering doing just one of those.

I am so eager to jump off. I did try to quit completely last weekend and while I think I could tough it out if I absolutely had to, I am lucky to have a good supply to keep going slowly with.

When I was trying to jump to nothing last weekend I noticed wd symptoms came in waves. Bupe seems to be a bit cruel in that you might feel fine for the 24-36 hours of quitting but when it comes for you - jeez. Mostly sweats, chills, nausea sometimes and definitely felt like my guts were starting to wake up lol. But I would rate it 3/10 in terms of discomfort. Idk it’s all subjective I guess.

I feel much camaraderie reading everyone’s posts and experiences here. Sorry if my post is kind of weird and rambling, or not quite forum etiquette. It’s my first time. 😅 the post I quoted i inspired me.
 
If I were you @Sitting Kiwi93 I'd taper down to 0 since you have access to it. I've read for hours and hours all over the web and it seems like that is the best option.
I've been wanting to jump off as well but changed my opinion after all the horror stories. You are on quite a low dose already but as I said since you have access, just taper down. Patience is key with coming off this substance it seems. 🩷

Also some extra tips: start exercising, meditating and eat omega 3, cut down on ultraprocessed food and nurture your relationships. It will help a ton.

I'm down to 1mg now. 0.7 some days. I've tapered quickly up until now though so I still have residual wd symptoms from my taper, like intense night sweats. But I've feel like my "connection to the rest of the universe" is coming back. I'm also dreaming again, even though I'm still smoking cannabis! That's huge for me, I've missed it so much.
 
Yesterday morning I had taken 0.3 mg bupe, and about 12 hours later in the evening I thought I wanted to try taking some oxy to see how that would suffice me, I snorted 5mg and swallowed 5 ans actually got the tiiiniest little effects from that, before it leveled out to something non noticeable. But I actually fell asleep without my second bupe dose with the help of that oxy. I could've taken more and I wanted to when feeling those effects but I'm glad I stuck to it.
At first, I started my taper from 28 mg bupe to be able to take other opiates again, but these 4,5 months have changed my mind about it. I mostly just want to get off opis complex, due to how shitty this taper have had me feeling. But feels nice to be able to indulge once in a while even on a low dose bupe.
Don't know what I'm rambling about. Some kind of accountability post I guess.
These kinds of "testing my opiate receptors"(🤣) bullshit stuff are what leads to serious relapses
 
aesthetic.addict said:
Yesterday morning I had taken 0.3 mg bupe, and about 12 hours later in the evening I thought I wanted to try taking some oxy to see how that would suffice me, I snorted 5mg and swallowed 5 ans actually got the tiiiniest little effects from that, before it leveled out to something non noticeable. But I actually fell asleep without my second bupe dose with the help of that oxy. I could've taken more and I wanted to when feeling those effects but I'm glad I stuck to it.
At first, I started my taper from 28 mg bupe to be able to take other opiates again, but these 4,5 months have changed my mind about it. I mostly just want to get off opis complex, due to how shitty this taper have had me feeling. But feels nice to be able to indulge once in a while even on a low dose bupe.
Don't know what I'm rambling about. Some kind of accountability post I guess.
These kinds of "testing my opiate receptors"(🤣) bullshit stuff are what leads to serious relapses
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You've been doing an incredible job! Way more courage than me!
But if your goal is to avoid opioids altogether, then definitely be careful with your oxy vacations! All it takes is getting those good euphoric feelings again & you're back to wanting it all the time. Hell, for some one like me, the post-acute withdrawal symptoms I'd have if I quit opioids would mean I'd go nuts. It'd be dangerous for me to come off of opioids altogether at this point.

Do you ever find that the lower doses of bupe give you a buzz at all? I've seen a lot of people talk about how when they tapered down to these smaller doses, it started giving them a buzz. And it's very possible due to bupe's weird pharmacology of being a mixed agonist/anatagonist. If you really crave an opioid buzz & don't wanna be messing with oxy or full agonists, then maybe taking a little bit extra of your bupe some days can provide a mild buzz & maybe help with that craving.

Either way, you're doing great! I have no idea who you are or anything about you, but I'm proud of you! People who've never been through opioid withdrawals have no idea what it's like. And it takes so much courage, strength & commitment, that you should be proud of yourself as well!

Take care my friend!
 
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