Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[Captain.Heroin]

Man why do i feel guilty about taking 2mgs of sub a day?

Will i have to take this forever to feel normal?

Is there anything wrong with taking suboxone long term if all other measures have failed.....

It feels as just im addicted to the sub but its way healthier than my behavoirs associated with oxy and heroin

You shouldn't feel guilty from taking buprenorphine. If it works for you, that's a positive thing, not a negative one.

Also, a lot of people find buprenorphine to be an excellent anti-depressant and helps immensely with anxiety as well. Buprenorphine has an instant effect versus anti-depressants which take weeks to begin taking effect, it doesn't readily build tolerance like any other mu-agonist or benzo when properly dosed, and the long half life of buprenorphine ensures people have relief for quite a long time, whereas most other (desirable/abusable/preferred) opiates or benzos tend to be shorter acting (though there are exceptions). Because of these reasons and more, (such as, weed + buprenorphine is a really compatible combo) people tend to prefer buprenorphine to other medications.

Congratulations. I'm glad it potentiated it for you. The first time I tried diphenhydramine with buprenorphine, it sure as hell was a lot more intense than I expected it to be.

Alprazolam is great for buprenorphine. Let me know how it goes.

Capt H,

I did my same 0.216mgx3+maybe 100mg diphenhydramine(CWE to remove the APAP coz mine comes with 500mg APAP)+ 1mg Alprazolam then after about 4 hrs i did another 1mg Alprazloam+ 100mg diphenhydramine.

I am sad to report that the experience was not as good as with midazolam. but the last time i dose with midazolam i had only 50mg diphenhydramine and then after 4 hours the other half of the midazolam+ 50mg diphenhydramine.

So do you reckon i screw up my high coz of too much diphenhydramine this time or coz i use Alprazolam??? overall i still had a high but it was not as long and as euphoric and as talkative as my last dose with midazolam

I must have done something wrong this time but am not sure what so????maybe Alprazolam is just a shitty benzo???? or too much diphenhydramine???

Please advise Capt H coz i hate to waste my precious 0.216mgx1 burpe.

Also do u reckoned i should stick with midazolam next time i dose( thursday, 4 days after my last dose) or should i try another benzo?? i've got some lysanxia, bromazepam, Rhoypnol and of coz diazepam which i take 20-40mg daily anyway.

Also one last question, if let's say i dose 0.216mgx3 at 12noon+ the usual benzo and dip and by 4-5pm i feel like the talkativeness is slipping away or the high is going, can i dose another 0.216 burpe?? coz i remember you telling me to wait at least 24hrs for a next dose.

Awaiting your advice mate, cheers and thanks once again

Though I haven't ever tried midazolam, I figure it's a more euphoric benzo than alprazolam. In my experience, alprazolam and buprenorphine is wonderful, but benzos act differently for different people.

I would suggest to stick to the midazolam. You asked if alprazolam is a shitty benzo, and I don't think it is, however it builds tolerance quicker than most other benzos. So, in essence, for your purposes, it's probably not as great of a choice as the midazolam is.

You can redose at 5 hours and you will probably feel it since your dose is on the lower-end. However, it's hard to say, maybe you won't feel it as much as if you had waited for another day. It's hard to say.

For me, personally, I take 0.5mg at a time, and I can re-dose in 4 hours and I feel it just as well. Sometimes I wait 8 or 12 hours depending on circumstances.

However, you have to also consider the idea that if you want to take it 2 times in a day, it might get to the point where you might want to do it every day as well. I get the feeling you're trying to avoid this, so my advice would be to just re-examine how you're using it.

If you're using buprenorphine recreationally 1 day out of the week, it's OK to dose 2 times in that day. However, if you're doing it 3 or 4 times out of the week, it's probably better to stick to 1 time each day. If you recreationally do it once a month or once every few months, then you can probably do it 2 or 3 times and be fine.

Re-dosing opiates is a sticky dichotomy, one day you think it's OK to do a little more, the next you feel you can't get through the day without it.

What it comes down to is how you feel. If you know taking it a second time in the day is going to be OK, you can try it. If you don't get what you wanted out of it, then you just shrug your shoulders and wait for next time.

People tend to react really uniquely to thebaine derived drugs, buprenorphine being one of them, that it's hard to predict if re-dosing 5 hours into it will be positive or neutral. For some people, it might not make you feel higher than you already are, but might just prolong the duration of the effects.

Let me know how it works out for you, and enjoy the midazolam. If you drink grapefruit juice, it should potentiate the midazolam, and from what I understand (which may or may not be true - I do not know) apparently lengthens the buprenorphine experience.

A post on bluelight said that St. John's Wort helps convert the buprenorphine to norbuprenorphine, whereas grapefruit juice lengthens the effects of buprenorphine.

Whether this is true or not, I know the grapefruit juice should potentiate the midazolam (also will potentiate the diazepam and alprazolam as well.)

 

[DJ25]

Yeah I think sub is metabolized by CYP3A4- GF juice inhibits this. BTW is Tramdol a definetly OK to take with Bupe or is it a subjective thing?

 

[bluemorning]

That is strange, because there was a point where I had been using diphenhydramine for a few months straight - 25-50mg every single night, and it wasn't until the end of that stretch that I noticed any tolerance developing.

Well I'm certainly in no position to tell you anything about diphen... I'm only speaking from my own experience... which could very well be an anomaly, but I known a few people who have the same sky-rocketing tolerance. I guess you're one of the lucky ones... or am I the lucky one, since I'll probably be getting Ambien due to benadryl no longer working?

My Mom tries to make me feel guilty about it, too. But, you have to realize that most people don't understand what you've been through or how you feel.

I HATE THAT! My mom is fine with it, but my dad tries to make me feel guilty too. He tells me I'm still a junkie cuz I'm taking pills everyday to get by, and he always wants to know exactly how much I'm taking everyday and when I'm going to lower my dose "and finally get of those fuckin' drugs".

You're right, most people don't understand at all... and many of those people are huge fucking assholes, and some just happen to be parents who are huge fucking assholes who don't understand.

Many a fight has been based around my use of Suboxone that's Rx'd to me by my doc, which I use as prescribed.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

is Tramdol a definetly OK to take with Bupe or is it a subjective thing?

I wouldn't take tramadol at all IMO, so I wouldn't know.

 

[Jabberwocky]

BTW is Tramdol a definetly OK to take with Bupe or is it a subjective thing?

it's definitely ok to take with buprenorphine. just don't exceed the 400mg in 24hours.

 

[ahlongsan]

.


Though I haven't ever tried midazolam, I figure it's a more euphoric benzo than alprazolam. In my experience, alprazolam and buprenorphine is wonderful, but benzos act differently for different people.

I would suggest to stick to the midazolam. You asked if alprazolam is a shitty benzo, and I don't think it is, however it builds tolerance quicker than most other benzos. So, in essence, for your purposes, it's probably not as great of a choice as the midazolam is.

You can redose at 5 hours and you will probably feel it since your dose is on the lower-end. However, it's hard to say, maybe you won't feel it as much as if you had waited for another day. It's hard to say.

For me, personally, I take 0.5mg at a time, and I can re-dose in 4 hours and I feel it just as well. Sometimes I wait 8 or 12 hours depending on circumstances.

However, you have to also consider the idea that if you want to take it 2 times in a day, it might get to the point where you might want to do it every day as well. I get the feeling you're trying to avoid this, so my advice would be to just re-examine how you're using it.

If you're using buprenorphine recreationally 1 day out of the week, it's OK to dose 2 times in that day. However, if you're doing it 3 or 4 times out of the week, it's probably better to stick to 1 time each day. If you recreationally do it once a month or once every few months, then you can probably do it 2 or 3 times and be fine.

Re-dosing opiates is a sticky dichotomy, one day you think it's OK to do a little more, the next you feel you can't get through the day without it.

What it comes down to is how you feel. If you know taking it a second time in the day is going to be OK, you can try it. If you don't get what you wanted out of it, then you just shrug your shoulders and wait for next time.

People tend to react really uniquely to thebaine derived drugs, buprenorphine being one of them, that it's hard to predict if re-dosing 5 hours into it will be positive or neutral. For some people, it might not make you feel higher than you already are, but might just prolong the duration of the effects.

Let me know how it works out for you, and enjoy the midazolam. If you drink grapefruit juice, it should potentiate the midazolam, and from what I understand (which may or may not be true - I do not know) apparently lengthens the buprenorphine experience.

A post on bluelight said that St. John's Wort helps convert the buprenorphine to norbuprenorphine, whereas grapefruit juice lengthens the effects of buprenorphine.

Whether this is true or not, I know the grapefruit juice should potentiate the midazolam (also will potentiate the diazepam and alprazolam as well.)

Capt H ,

Is there any substitute to grapefruit juice or st john's warts??? i mean where i am , these 2 items is never available any times of the year...i can get pomelo akind of fruit that taste quite similar to grapefruit, do u reckon that'll help??

also i dose about 1 or 2 times a week max and i always do 3x0.216mg for each dose and you are right that i don't want to go there where i can't get thru a day without it( i told you i was on H everyday 15 years ago and i know the WD it's the worst coz back then i did my WD with my gf locking me up and throwing the keys away hahaha) anyway i feel quite in control now and since i am doing it max 2 times a week maybe i can try a redose after 4-5 hrs like you do.

So if i redose 2nd time in a day, how many 0.216mg should i sub??? and should the midazolam still be 15mg in 2 halfs or should i also pop another midazolam in 2 halfs after the second dose of the day??

And since you made no mention of my increase diphenhydramine intake, i assume it's ok to carry on with it at aboout 100mgx2 in a day right??


Thank you so very much once again mate and awaiting your expert advise

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Capt H ,

Is there any substitute to grapefruit juice or st john's warts??? i mean where i am , these 2 items is never available any times of the year...i can get pomelo akind of fruit that taste quite similar to grapefruit, do u reckon that'll help??

also i dose about 1 or 2 times a week max and i always do 3x0.216mg for each dose and you are right that i don't want to go there where i can't get thru a day without it( i told you i was on H everyday 15 years ago and i know the WD it's the worst coz back then i did my WD with my gf locking me up and throwing the keys away hahaha) anyway i feel quite in control now and since i am doing it max 2 times a week maybe i can try a redose after 4-5 hrs like you do.

So if i redose 2nd time in a day, how many 0.216mg should i sub??? and should the midazolam still be 15mg in 2 halfs or should i also pop another midazolam in 2 halfs after the second dose of the day??

And since you made no mention of my increase diphenhydramine intake, i assume it's ok to carry on with it at aboout 100mgx2 in a day right??


Thank you so very much once again mate and awaiting your expert advise

Grapefruit juice inhibits an enzyme, and I'm not sure if there are any substitutes. I think there are some drugs that do the same thing...but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure if there's a substitute for St. John's Wort, though it is common in any pharmacy where I'm from. I can see it not being an international item though.

I'm glad you feel in control, I do too and that's why I like buprenorphine a lot.

You could take another 3, you could experiment with less but I typically like to take the same dose each time. 4 to 6 hours is a good interval for this dose.

I would definitely keep the midazolam dose at where it is. If you wanted to use more of it, you can do that if you feel comfortable doing so. Personally I like to take smaller doses of benzodiazepines, it's one of the benefits of being on buprenorphine is that I feel benzos more than I would without it.

I would use less diphenhydramine because it probably takes away a bit from the talkativeness and parts of the experience you seem to like. If you want to use it with the midazolam after you've already taken it to re-vamp it maybe 6 or 12 hours later, then that would be a better idea.

Some people prefer to take diphenhydramine with every dose, I don't.

It's ok to take that much diphenhydramine, but it can leave one with a hangover, so that's why I would advise to use less of it.

Sorry I didn't see it posted the first time.

 

[DeLee]

BTW is Tramdol a definetly OK to take with Bupe or is it a subjective thing?

Yes, Tramadol acts very good with buprenorphine! But like someone wrote try not to take too much +4-500mg/day because of the seizure risk.
But the risk can be minimized by taking a medication like Clonazepam or Diazepam.
Im on about 4mg bupe, 4-800mg Tramadol, 6-950mg Carisoprodol, 10mg valium / day. Sometimes other bensos also like Alpra, Clona, Lora, Flun and so on.

They all give a nice buzz together so its something i can recommend.
But if you give drug tests bensos may not be the best thing if you aint got it on script... dont know if US drug tests show Carisoprodol and Tramadol in them though..

 

[DJ25]

Does anyone else feel that Sub took about a week to really gain the full benefits? I say this because I've been on 12mg for around a week and after today's dose I feel really good. Slightly opiated etc and just mellow. Maybe it's taken a while to reach a steady state?

 

[bluemorning]

Does anyone else feel that Sub took about a week to really gain the full benefits? I say this because I've been on 12mg for around a week and after today's dose I feel really good. Slightly opiated etc and just mellow. Maybe it's taken a while to reach a steady state?

I'm not sure it's a "steady state" medication plasma-level wise, as much as it is a psychological thing. First day on bupe instead of a full agonist, you're out of WD, but on agonists when you dose yourself to end WD you get some buzz, even the slightest one, if not a full-blown nodding out high. With bupe, you just feel more or less "normal".

Not just-fixed-up-to-stave-off-sickness normal, but the closest thing to pre-addiction-normal that you've felt in a long time.

So it takes a while to adjust to the let-down of not catching a buzz.

That's how I've looked at it for myself, at least. It's very possible that it could be a matter of reaching a steady-state of bupe in your system, however.

 

[bow-viper1]

Does anyone else feel that Sub took about a week to really gain the full benefits? I say this because I've been on 12mg for around a week and after today's dose I feel really good. Slightly opiated etc and just mellow. Maybe it's taken a while to reach a steady state?

Nope. My very first dose provided the full effects. Although, I was thrown into about 45 minutes of precipitated withdrawal, but once that ended, I was overwhelmed by the sweet relief.

 

[comptonking]

OK i need help I am tapering and i'm currently on about 10mg's of methadone a day and about 15mg of oxycontin. But i've run out of both. beofre that i was doing about $10-15 dollars of H a day so not a huge habit and i could do 40-60 mg of oxycontin with a light buzz.

So i got 2 8mg sub's the orange ones with the swords. How much should i take? thanks

 

[bow-viper1]

OK i need help I am tapering and i'm currently on about 10mg's of methadone a day and about 15mg of oxycontin. But i've run out of both. beofre that i was doing about $10-15 dollars of H a day so not a huge habit and i could do 40-60 mg of oxycontin with a light buzz.

So i got 2 8mg sub's the orange ones with the swords. How much should i take? thanks

You can find all of those answers in this post. But, you need to wait until you are in pretty heavy withdrawals to take any buprenorphine. When you do take it, take 2mg (1/4 of a tablet). Wait a couple hours and if need more, take another 2mg.

You shouldn't need much more than 4mg total.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Does anyone else feel that Sub took about a week to really gain the full benefits? I say this because I've been on 12mg for around a week and after today's dose I feel really good. Slightly opiated etc and just mellow. Maybe it's taken a while to reach a steady state?

I had something similar with bupe. I only felt totally good after the first two weeks. Before that I just didn't feel well...stomach pains and other stuff. Maybe the bupe just has to readjust your system from heroin to bupe. Cuz these drugs are different. I dunno, just a guess.


How much of an effect will tramadol have for bupe w/d. Will it ease it a little bit? My mom has some and I can always take some if I need it.

 

[comptonking]

are you sure 2mg with my low tolerance? I read someone with a 60mg tolerance to oxy getting floored by 2mg of sub for 36 hours...

 

[DiscoS]

are you sure 2mg with my low tolerance? I read someone with a 60mg tolerance to oxy getting floored by 2mg of sub for 36 hours...

Yah, I'd start lower myself since you're goal is to get sober.

Personally, i'd wait until the w/d's really start taking affect (obviously), and then take 1mg of sub. If after 30-45 min or so you're still feeling lousy, you can always take another 1mg.

Just my .02... with the old motto in mind that you can always take more, but once you've done too much, well that's that.

 

[ThePharmacist25]

So I have a Dr. appt tommorow and I havne't gotten a blood test, yet. I will probaby get one tommorow, my appt is at 11am, and I am not feeling too good (I haven't had any opiates since this morning, and it was ~15mg of hydrocodone), but I am prescribed oxycodone 15mg QID. I have one 8mg suboxone, but the withdrawals aren't that bad, but by tommorow it'll be hellish just waiting (usually 2-3 hours) then finding it to get filled. Will suboxone, well (bupe) show up onthe blood test? I am not exactly sure if he is testing if we have what we're supposed to have, or if he is testing for what we're not supposed to have.

 

[gtown301]

Subutex (no Naloxone)?

I got ahold of an 8mg Subutex and ive had it for a while. Well today i decided to try a little. Ive had Suboxone before so i kinda knew what to expect, but i never have tried it without the Naloxone(SP?)

Anyway, i shaved a little piece off of it and railed it. It wasn't much, i would say less than a MG. But my question is...Since its straight Buprenorphine will it still block opiates from getting you buzzed or killing pain? Im getting my dentist's Percocet script tomorrow after surgery, and was just wondering if they're gonna work since dosing Bupe.

Also, if i dosed some opiates tonight would they effect me?

I dosed the Bupe around 4 hours ago, and i really don't feel much of it anymore.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

The buprenorphine still overpowers naloxone, so it doesn't matter whether you're using subutex or suboxone; each will block mu-agonists for some time.

This should have gone in a megathread.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Depends on what he's running, it shouldn't if it's a NIDA 5.

There are always false positives, which is why drug tests are BS in the first place.

And we don't allow drug testing Q's on the board.