Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[gtown301]

Ahh, man...i always post stuff in the wrong freakin place...(sorry guys)

I figured since it wasnt actually suboxone that it could be posted in OD.


But youre saying it will still block opiates from my receptors?

Even at that small of a dose?

 

[bluemorning]

I got ahold of an 8mg Subutex and ive had it for a while. Well today i decided to try a little. Ive had Suboxone before so i kinda knew what to expect, but i never have tried it without the Naloxone(SP?)

Anyway, i shaved a little piece off of it and railed it. It wasn't much, i would say less than a MG. But my question is...Since its straight Buprenorphine will it still block opiates from getting you buzzed or killing pain? Im getting my dentist's Percocet script tomorrow after surgery, and was just wondering if they're gonna work since dosing Bupe.

Also, if i dosed some opiates tonight would they effect me?

I dosed the Bupe around 4 hours ago, and i really don't feel much of it anymore.

You might have made a big mistake, depending on what kind of surgery you're having tomorrow.

If there's giving you opiates for any part of the surgery, the Bupe will be active and blocking whatever opiates the doc gives you.

This leaves you with two options:

1) Risk being in pain during surgery since the opiates won't work, and wait until it wears off to take your Percs.

2) Tell your dentist about using Subutex so he can compensate the anesthesia appropriately , at the risk of losing the Rx for Percocet.

Of course, this all depends on the surgery and how much bupe you took. If it was less than a mg, you'll be fine... if you took more since then though, you might be in for some pain.

Don't take anymore bupe and you'll be fine both for the surgery and to catch a buzz afterwords.

Enjoy the percs.

 

[Jabberwocky]

merging gtown13's question into mega thread

 

[geomantric]

Well ya right used the norspan patch for 2 weeks and it worked for extra week because when took patch off 3 days ago im having mild withdrawals now,like someone pulled the batteries out of me got f-all energy/motivation hoping it passes in next couple of days.

But 2 weeks off morphine good effort for a 10 year habit so seems to be working so far I thought would went through hell for such a long time on opiates maybe its yet to come but so far so good, thanks for help/advice so far guys it helped alot at time stick with it its appreciated alot.

 

[gtown301]

You might have made a big mistake, depending on what kind of surgery you're having tomorrow.

If there's giving you opiates for any part of the surgery, the Bupe will be active and blocking whatever opiates the doc gives you.

This leaves you with two options:

1) Risk being in pain during surgery since the opiates won't work, and wait until it wears off to take your Percs.

2) Tell your dentist about using Subutex so he can compensate the anesthesia appropriately , at the risk of losing the Rx for Percocet.

Of course, this all depends on the surgery and how much bupe you took. If it was less than a mg, you'll be fine... if you took more since then though, you might be in for some pain.

Don't take anymore bupe and you'll be fine both for the surgery and to catch a buzz afterwords.

Enjoy the percs.

OK, you just reassured me. I should be good. It was def less than a MG and i dosed it once about 6 hours ago now, and i feel no effcts from it nor did i when i initially dosed it. I have a couple 7.5mg percocets from an old script for my back. I should be alright taking them now to see if they have any effect on me right? I just wanna make sure theyre doing their job so i DONT have to tell the dentist if i dont need to ya know?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

OK, you just reassured me. I should be good. It was def less than a MG and i dosed it once about 6 hours ago now, and i feel no effcts from it nor did i when i initially dosed it. I have a couple 7.5mg percocets from an old script for my back. I should be alright taking them now to see if they have any effect on me right? I just wanna make sure theyre doing their job so i DONT have to tell the dentist if i dont need to ya know?

You won't feel the 7.5's as much since you took ~1mg of buprenorphine; I would advise holding onto them until after your surgery - you might actually be in pain then.

They're not likely to work TBH.

Well ya right used the norspan patch for 2 weeks and it worked for extra week because when took patch off 3 days ago im having mild withdrawals now,like someone pulled the batteries out of me got f-all energy/motivation hoping it passes in next couple of days.

But 2 weeks off morphine good effort for a 10 year habit so seems to be working so far I thought would went through hell for such a long time on opiates maybe its yet to come but so far so good, thanks for help/advice so far guys it helped alot at time stick with it its appreciated alot.

Congratulations on quitting morphine.

If you feel bad from having no more buprenorphine, then you can try taking some diphenhydramine hcl or doxylamine succinate. If you have any benzos maybe now's the time to take them. Other than that, eating/exercise/sleep/sex will help a lot.

 

[gtown301]

You won't feel the 7.5's as much since you took ~1mg of buprenorphine; I would advise holding onto them until after your surgery - you might actually be in pain then.

They're not likely to work TBH.

Back when i was on suboxone i would take one 7.5 to help knock the bupe off of my receptors, and then the next day i would feel the effects of a 7.5 a little more. Would you advise to take just one tonight to help get rid of the bupe? I mean, it was less than a MG and it was taken nasally....Man i knew i shouldn't have taken that crap.

 

[gtown301]

Im good, i just took one of my 7.5s from an old script and i can feel it fine. yay! haha

 

[bluemorning]

Back when i was on suboxone i would take one 7.5 to help knock the bupe off of my receptors, and then the next day i would feel the effects of a 7.5 a little more. Would you advise to take just one tonight to help get rid of the bupe? I mean, it was less than a MG and it was taken nasally....Man i knew i shouldn't have taken that crap.

7.5 oxy/vic won't do jack to knock bupe off your receptors.

The reason it's working now is because by snorting 1mg of bupe, you probably only had .4-.5mg of bupe active in your system, so your receptors are far from saturated.

 

[geomantric]

Congratulations on quitting morphine.

If you feel bad from having no more buprenorphine, then you can try taking some diphenhydramine hcl or doxylamine succinate. If you have any benzos maybe now's the time to take them. Other than that, eating/exercise/sleep/sex will help a lot.

Thanks, took ya advice I tried 2 Mersyndol (doxylamine succinate) last night, worked like a treat slept real well cut out alot the RLS,I have some benzos i might try 1 of them tonight.Feel like got bit more energy today so things might be on up so hard to tell on this roller coaster of a ride.

Cheers Geo

 

[gtown301]

So the surgery went great yesterday. Oxys are working wonderful, and im actually surprised how little bit of pain im in even before taking my doses. I thought it was gonna be hellacious pain as ive been told, but its NOTHIN!

 

[phr]

Thread version 1.0
Thread version 2.0

What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:


Other Notes:

• Bupe is CIII in the US.
• Metabolized by CYP3A4(see potentiation thread for potentiators).
• Half-life: 37 hours.
• Drug tests: Not detected by regular 5 panel tests.
• A interesting thread by 'medicine cabinet' about a new version of Suboxone that's currently being tested can be found here.
• Buprenorphine gets metabolized into norbuprenorphine and into conjugated buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine.
• Severe opiate withdrawal in a heroin user precipitated by a massive buprenorphine dose
• Bupe half-life charts- courtesy of Motts
• Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction. -courtesy of thugpassion

Images:

Subutex

Suboxone

I couldn't find photos of Tamgesic, and Buprenex just comes in vials

Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.

Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients

 

[phr]

Thread version 1.0
Thread version 2.0
Thread version 3.0

What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:

Buprenorphine bioavailabilities:

intravenous: 98%-100%

intranasal: 50%
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the [...] intranasal (bioavailability, 48%)
"The bioavailability of buprenorphine, HCl (BPP) in sheep after nasal administration of two formulations has been studied. 0.9 mg BPP in 150 microl was administered nasally and compared to 0.6 mg i.v. The test solutions were formulated with 30% polyethylene glycol 300 (PEG 300) and 5% dextrose, respectively. The bioavailability for PEG 300 was 70% (S.D.+/-27%, n=6), whereas the bioavailability for 5% dextrose was 89% (S.D.+/-23%, n=6)."
"Mean intranasal bioavailability was 48.2 +/- 8.35% (mean +/- s.e.m.) of the intravenous value"

intramuscular: 68%
"The observed mean intramuscular bioavailability was 68%"
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the intramuscular (bioavailability, 50%–100%)"

intrarectal: 54%
"bioavailability of the drug was found to be: [... ]intrarectal (54%)..."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] intrarectal, 54%..."

sublingual: ~30%
"Buprenorphine is well absorbed sublingually, with 60% to 70% of the bioavailability of intravenous doses"
"Study results indicate that bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine is approximately 30%"
"Literature on bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine presents variable numbers ranging from. 19–58% of the administered dose."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] sublingual, 13%"

oral: 10%
"the oral bioavailability for buprenorphine is state to be 10%"
"due to extensive first-pass metabolism, buprenorphine has very poor oral bioavailability (10% of the intravenous route) if swallowed"

intrahepatoportal: 49%

intraduodenal: 9.7%

Other Notes:

• Bupe is CIII in the US.
• Metabolized by CYP3A4(see potentiation thread for potentiators).
• Half-life: 37 hours.
• Drug tests: Not detected by regular 5 panel tests.
• A interesting thread by 'medicine cabinet' about a new version of Suboxone that's currently being tested can be found here.
• Buprenorphine gets metabolized into norbuprenorphine and into conjugated buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine.
• Severe opiate withdrawal in a heroin user precipitated by a massive buprenorphine dose
• Bupe half-life charts- courtesy of Motts
• Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction. -courtesy of thugpassion

Images:

Subutex

Suboxone

I couldn't find photos of Tamgesic, and Buprenex just comes in vials

Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.

Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients

 

[phr]

Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: Is bupe a good replacement for methadone?
A: Maybe. Some people with a high enough opiate tolerance may not be held by bupe at any level, even at the highest(ceiling) possible dose. You should research both before deciding what to go on, as they both have different positives and negatives in regards to their use.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal

Q: Will I still have cravings on bupe?
A: Maybe. Some people report no cravings, while others report the same level as before.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is it safe to shoot Suboxone/Subutex?
A: No. It can cause many of the same complications as shooting other pills. Just because Suboxone/Subutex dissolves easily, unlike other pills, does not mean it's any safer to to shoot. The best advice is to use a micron filter. This* is a good indication of what can happen. (Although that could happen from injecting any other drug/pill.)

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full mu agonists.

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe(1-2mgs). But, don't expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects.

*Link to article provided by hfrs in a different thread

 

[phr]

Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: Is bupe a good replacement for methadone?
A: Maybe. Some people with a high enough opiate tolerance may not be held by bupe at any level, even at the highest(ceiling) possible dose. You should research both before deciding what to go on, as they both have different positives and negatives in regards to their use.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal

Q: Will I still have cravings on bupe?
A: Maybe. Some people report no cravings, while others report the same level as before.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is it safe to shoot Suboxone/Subutex?
A: No. It can cause many of the same complications as shooting other pills. Just because Suboxone/Subutex dissolves easily, unlike other pills, does not mean it's any safer to to shoot. The best advice is to use a micron filter. This* is a good indication of what can happen. (Although that could happen from injecting any other drug/pill.)

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full mu agonists.

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe(1-2mgs). But, don't expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects.

*Link to article provided by hfrs in a different thread

 

[phr]

There has been some confusion with information regarding suboxone/buprenorphine because some are using the drug for different purposes. Most of the information provided pertains to using suboxone/buprenorphine as a maintenance aid for opiate dependency. This information sometimes goes against the suggested information for using suboxone/burprenorphine as a recreational drug.

This time around, Im going to add a quick FAQ to help users of this drug figure out what is what. The OD guidelines say we will not help anyone abuse maintenance programs, but I think its important to answer a few basic questions about recreational suboxone/buprenorphine in an effort to reduce harm when, inevitably, someone decides to use it recreationally. For example, a recreational dose is going to be significantly smaller than a maintenance dose. I think its important to make that clear.

So, here it is. The quick "Recreational Basics of Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ."


Can Suboxone or Buprenorphine be used recreationally?

Yes, it can, but not for everyone. One thing you must consider to figure out if you can use this drug recreationally is your tolerance. Someone who is addicted to opiates or has a very high tolerance to them will not be able to get high off of this drug. Typically, the only people who do get high from it are people who are relatively inexperienced with opiates.

If you are using suboxone or buprenorphine as a maintenance tool, you are not going to be able to get high from it, so its best not to even try. You'll run through your supply faster than normal with no beneficial gain.

How much do I need to take to get high from it?

This is an important thing to pay attention to. If you have read about subxoone/buprenorphine at all on Bluelight, you have probably noticed people taking about doses of 4mg or 6mg, or 8mg or 12mg, and sometimes even as high as 24mg or 32mg.

That is WAY too much for a recreational dose.

For someone who has little to no tolerance for opiates, a dose of 1mg or 2mg is more than enough.

What is the risk for ODing?

Even though suboxone/buprenorphine has less effect on the respiratory system, and has much less CNS depression compared to other opiates, the chance of OD is still there. This is why its important to start at as low of a dose as possible (1mg - 2mg). Because of buprenorphines high affinity to the opiate receptors, typical antagonists used to reverse OD's (naloxone and naltrexone) can not be used. There are antagonists that can reverse the OD, but hospitals wont know they are needed unless they are made aware that your OD has been caused by buprenorphine, and its going to be hard to make them aware when your unconscious, so be careful.

From v2.0 by 6/7.

 

[phr]

There has been some confusion with information regarding suboxone/buprenorphine because some are using the drug for different purposes. Most of the information provided pertains to using suboxone/buprenorphine as a maintenance aid for opiate dependency. This information sometimes goes against the suggested information for using suboxone/burprenorphine as a recreational drug.

This time around, Im going to add a quick FAQ to help users of this drug figure out what is what. The OD guidelines say we will not help anyone abuse maintenance programs, but I think its important to answer a few basic questions about recreational suboxone/buprenorphine in an effort to reduce harm when, inevitably, someone decides to use it recreationally. For example, a recreational dose is going to be significantly smaller than a maintenance dose. I think its important to make that clear.

So, here it is. The quick "Recreational Basics of Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ."


Can Suboxone or Buprenorphine be used recreationally?

Yes, it can, but not for everyone. One thing you must consider to figure out if you can use this drug recreationally is your tolerance. Someone who is addicted to opiates or has a very high tolerance to them will not be able to get high off of this drug. Typically, the only people who do get high from it are people who are relatively inexperienced with opiates.

If you are using suboxone or buprenorphine as a maintenance tool, you are not going to be able to get high from it, so its best not to even try. You'll run through your supply faster than normal with no beneficial gain.

How much do I need to take to get high from it?

This is an important thing to pay attention to. If you have read about subxoone/buprenorphine at all on Bluelight, you have probably noticed people taking about doses of 4mg or 6mg, or 8mg or 12mg, and sometimes even as high as 24mg or 32mg.

That is WAY too much for a recreational dose.

For someone who has little to no tolerance for opiates, a dose of 1mg or 2mg is more than enough.

What is the risk for ODing?

Even though suboxone/buprenorphine has less effect on the respiratory system, and has much less CNS depression compared to other opiates, the chance of OD is still there. This is why its important to start at as low of a dose as possible (1mg - 2mg). Because of buprenorphines high affinity to the opiate receptors, typical antagonists used to reverse OD's (naloxone and naltrexone) can not be used. There are antagonists that can reverse the OD, but hospitals wont know they are needed unless they are made aware that your OD has been caused by buprenorphine, and its going to be hard to make them aware when your unconscious, so be careful.

From v2.0 by 6/7.

 

[phr]

>1000 closed and archived.

 

[mebroken]

Q: Is it safe to shoot Suboxone/Subutex?
A: No. It can cause many of the same complications as shooting other pills. Just because Suboxone/Subutex dissolves easily, unlike other pills, does not mean it's any safer to to shoot. The best advice is to use a micron filter.

question?
i've done i bunch of searches on this forum for injecting bupe and all i can find is warnings about trying to shoot the pills (wouldn't). however i have liquid bupe that i'm planning on using this weekend to help with w/d's if my dr. doesn't refill my opiate rx tomorrow. that is fine to IV, rather than IM correct?
also curious why there is so little talk about liquid bupe around....no one uses this?

 

[SWIM OPIATES]

The Truth About Suboxone Withdrawl

Ok i had been on suboxone for about 6 months. I came off of it about 8 days ago. Well let me break it down for you.

Day 1 - Feel like hell no sleep
Day 2 - Feel like hell no sleep
Day 3 - Feel like hell no sleep
Day 4 - Feel like hell no sleep
Day 5 - Feel a little better 7 hours of sleep
Day 6 - Feeling better 5 hours of sleep
Day 7 - Feel a little uncomfortable cold flash, hot flash etc. 5 hours of sleep
Day 8 - Just waking up right now, and i'm glad i have been throguh the worst


This is were i am so far, and i will vouch that the suboxone withdrawals are definitely longer than oxy contin, or heroin. I will be honest that the withdrawals are less mild, but i went for four nights without sleep which is horrible.
Although, on the other side of the coin i would not tell someone to not take it. It helped me out a lot. It gave me an opportunity to ditch all the people who i did drugs with since i couldn't get high on the suboxone.
I also jumped off at taking 4mg a day, from what i hear is high. Due to time constraints this was my only opportunity to do this.
The only thing i will attribute to helping me get throguh this is weed. Lots of it all day all night. It helps get rid of the hot and cold flashes, and also helps the restless legs as well.