Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[sixpartseven]

So outta curiousity i took my regular 4mg of sub yesterday in the morning and around 4 oclock in the afternoon i took 50 mg of hydro and got a nice lil buzz. everyone is different obviously but i guess i didnt have to wait 24-36 hrs to feel other opiates. today im poppin percs and hydro like crazy and getting some effects but definitely not what i was expecting....

People to seem to misunderstand what suboxone really does with other opiates.

It doesnt COMPLETELY block the effects of other full agonist opiates. It saturates the receptors so that the other drug doesnt easily bind, and has fewer receptors to bind to. This causes a decrease in the effects of the full-agonist, but it does not make it totally inactive. There are still receptors left, and depending on the opiate, Id assume (dont know for sure) that some of the buprenorphine can be replaced on the receptors. Someone will have to confirm/deny that.

What I mean is, you can get high an hour after taking suboxone if you wanted to. The only thing is, if you take your normal amount, you wont feel anywhere close to the full effects. In order to do that, you'd have to take a considerable amount more than your normal dosage. That is not suggested though, because obviously, the risk of OD becomes higher.

There has been times where Ive done heroin 4 - 6 hours after taking suboxone. I still felt it when I did my normal dose, but I had to do a lot more than normal to get really high.

 

[Valis]

Hey mods

Having read this thread all the way through, and now backwards, I had a few thoughts. Do you think the tendency for people to continually ask the same questions cold be partly solved by making the Sube/Bupe FAQ more comprehensive? It would be a pain in the arse (Yes, I'm English) but maybe on balance less of a pain in the long run. You could even reply to the millionth naltrexone misunderstanding by providing an immediate hyperlink to the relevant FAQ.

Not a fun job I know. I'm involved in other forums and I have a ready supply of stock answers to frequent (un-searched for) questions in .txts on my desktop ready to be pasted in.

Then again, it might just be a case of braodening the FAQ that is already there to a proper Q&A such as:

1) Q: How long should I wait before taking Bupe after my last .... etc A:
-This method allows you to analyse the style in which these questions are asked.

Also, perhaps making an explicit distinction early on the FAQ between those who are relatively opiate naive and want to try Bupe for kicks, and those who are using seriously to get away from opiate dependency, or at least as quick withdrawal from heroin. Running a website myself I've found that if the FAQ is written in a Q&A way people are less likely to send you questions.

Just a thought.

This is among the best threads on Bluelight; I'd like to think this at least partly reflects the enormous importance of Buprenorphine. It has very likely saved many people's lives; a genuine triumph for the 'Harm Reduction' philosophy that we advocate here. It's a more complex drug than most and many people have trouble with say, the role of Naltrexone in Suboxone (understandably, as it is largely a red herring), ore more importantly, the difference between full and partial opiate agonists. And then someone barging in and blathering about how 2mg made them puke at some frat party wastes everyone's time.

Would I want to do it myself? ell, I could try; i could submit something for JC and 6/7 and Phrozen and the gang to checkout and build on, mistakes marked in green biro, see me after class etc.

 

[Valis]

Not to imply that Phrozen's intro isn't excellent.

It's so bad to see so many people here struggling to pay for their medicines. Being a Brit, all health treatment is free at the point of delivery (except dentistry). You have to pay for individual prescriptions but there are loads of exemptions for poor people and those who have life-long conditions such as diabetes or epilepsy. Everything else is paid by taxation, and given the amount of money sloshing around, it shouldn't be a big problem. People claim it inefficient, and while its not as staggering as Michael Moore suggests, I've had no problems with it for the last 30 odd years and I have used it regularly. It's so entrenched into our culture that even Thatcher didn't dare try to dismantle it. I'm no hard lefty, but providing free health care for all just seems like a basic moral obligation. A civilsed society should be an ethically aware society. Tolerance is sometimes more imporant than justice etc.

Ok, that went on a bit.

 

[unsui]

My Suboxone Doc (Experience)?

okay, so i just moved and have a new suboxone doctor in which he read my substance use history form i filled out (i was completely honest with him about all of it). apparently since i'm on 4mg suboxone sublingually and have been for the past 70 days or so, i can taper down from suboxone in about 2 weeks. my other doctor and i had a plan to taper down from 4mg for about 1-2 months after using 4mg for 2 months. so now i talked him into going down to 3mg which i am on and then will taper down from that in a month.

but i was also tapering down from xanax and i am currently just dropping down to 1.5mg from 2mg. he says i can also be off the benzos within 2 weeks and has me on 1mg for 1 week and then .5mg for 1 week, then nothing. my other doc and i had about a 3-5 month taper plan for the benzos.

i asked my doctor about the consequences and withdrawls and he mentioned that w/ suboxone i will expderience withdrawls no matter what, and with the benzos i will be fine. i mentioned to him that he is the first person i have ever heard say that. and that i would rather stick to my old plan.

he also mentioned that i need a psychologist when i come off them, and that the whole reason i had done all these drugs and got addicted to heroin was because i have a mood disorder. he then diagnosed me as bi-polar, and said that i experience moments of mania, but happy mania. i told him that i never feel like superman and i never feel depressed, i pretty much just try and stay neutral as possible, but will always have those moments where i am more content or sad, just as all humans do. i then asked if it was possible that i had tried all those drugs because of curiousity and experimenting, and he replied with a simple no, you have a mood disorder. i then told him about my back injury 5 years ago, and how opiates appeared to be the perfect cure. but of course that didn't play any role in my addiction, just my mood and impulses. i mean yeah i guess you can say i was bi-polar when using dope, but not now. i mean every junkie is bi-polar in some sense. doesn't mean i still am when off the drug, does it?

apparently i also need to be put on mood stabilizers for my mood disorder. is there anything wrong with having "happy/positive mania" anyway? what the fuck?!!!!!!!!

i could've sworn i saw dollar signs in his eyes...
hmm....

 

[opiatekrzy]

^
Sublingual/intranasal bupe takes about 15 minutes to come on. Maybe it's just anxiety? That's just a guess, I've never heard of anyone else experiencing that with bupe.



Thanks for that post jasoncrest.

you are exactly right it takes about 10-15 minutes for either method, my experience i will add.

 

[opiatekrzy]

Alright I got my bupe appt. Monday at noon. The last time I used was Friday at like 7:30. I will probably start withdrawing saturday afternoon sometime. Will this be suficient to pass a piss test you think? I am going to drink alot of water and take a B complem vitamin to make it yellow but Im just curious if without the water do you think i'd pass? What about a blood test will I pass?
I appreciate it!
Thanks

if you are going to a bupe appt. on monday for opiate dependency, then i would advise u to go to the appt. with opiates in your urine, and in withdrawl, so u have to window this out perfect...just do ur last opiate dose 30 hours before the appt. so that way the positive urinalyisis for the opiates will give the doctor the "go" to write ur bupe script , because a positive for opiates on a test is a way for them to know ur not bullshitting and really dependent on opiates, plus being in withdrawl they will obviously notice is the other "go" to give u ur bupe. i read on my guidelines that if i dont provide a urine sample, i will not be given suboxone and the doctor said to me "hopefully you test positive for opiates" before he wrote my script.

 

[opiatekrzy]

hmm....wait did u take opiates, and are scared u will be kicked off the bupe program because u broke the rule and used opiates and u know the doc will test you? my mistake! goodluck!

 

[opiatekrzy]

Hey guys -

I've lurked a long time, just finally registered today to ask this question. I saw a few other threads similar to this topic, however my situation is different and I need a good opinion before I throw myself into crazy withdrawls or something.


I have been taking suboxone for 8 months now. I had a nasty heroin habit for 6+ months after starting with vikes, valiums/xanax/Ambien everyonce in a while, to OC every day, then to save money I got on the tar and was using xanax/valium and Ambien everyday, all day . went to rehab for a month, got clean, started the suboxone treatment and then just relapsed this weekend. I did a bout 160 mgs of oc over the course of the weekend, basically just using to stay well because it wasnt getting me that high due to the sub blocking the opiate receptors i guess.
Last night I did about 40 mgs of OC before bed, at around 12:00 1:00.

Now its Tuesday, I'm at work and I feel like shit. I'm feeling like I have the beginnings of withdrawls, sweats, chills, aches etc. I've heard you're supposed to wait 48+ hours to start sub again, but since im feeling so shitty right now, could I start it up again now? Should I wait? I'm afraid if I have to wait until tomorrow, ill go cop some dope tonight and be back into my full flung H addiction.


I also have an appt with my sub Dr. this week. To get a refill I have to take a piss test and all that, is he going to cut me off the sub if he finds OC in my system? I'm super scared about that, and I dont know wtf im going to do if I lose my sub. thanks for any help you guys can provide.

learn from your mistakes...your on suboxone for a reason, to abstain from all opiates. if you want to continue to abuse opiates, stop wasting money for suboxone appointments, and the prescription as well. it all depends on each doctor too; regardless if they will kick you off they're caseload as a suboxone patient if you test positive for drugs. my doctor told me straight up he gives chances but can see through the bullshit and taking advantage of..his main concerns are positive+ for cocaine and opiates..marijuana he said he really doesnt have a pet peeve for..

 

[opiatekrzy]

oh yeah interestingly as i was looking at the drug test my sub doctor uses, he actually tests to see if patients are taking the suboxone itself, lol...lately here in New York State, medicaid no longer covers suboxone patients because they were getting all they're pills and treatment for free, then selling the pills to support there drug habit (cocaine, heroin) so therefore thats why treatment places only take cash now a lot and doctors make sure the suboxone is in ur system at consistant levels...technology...

 

[sixpartseven]

No need to post 5 times in a row. In the bottom right corner of each of your own posts, there is an edit button. Just thought you should know.

 

[opiatekrzy]

i am sorry and you are right, im a bit loopy now ;/ forgive the inconvienence

 

[mr Bungle]

Just been reading this thread again Why is there so much bullshit and misimformtion surrouding this drug more than others? - naltraxone element - percipited withdrawls, generaly how to take it etc etc

I was lucky i had a good nurse who told me the whole truth, how to use how to not get precipited withdrawls etc etc (pluss i had bluelight) and now im clean, Suboxone has save mylife. I have more drive now also, even more so than when i was clean in the past. I dont just wanna sit and drool looking at my shoes for 4 hours.

I think Suboxone is the easyiest and quickest (if you are ready and want it to be quick) way to get clean from heroin (opiate addiction) But you must be 100% positive that you want to get clean - and which heroin addict is really? really? When your addicted you dont have rational thought so you are not 100% about anything, you are just living day to day. Thats the catch 22 i found. I thort i could get away with fucking this drug around - using gear sometimes - reducing to quick etc, but its a very jealous, sensitive little bitch is Suboxone, it doesnt take much for it to turn around to bite you in the arse or start mashing plates and shouting at you in your head....but if you treat Suboxone right its is the most rewarding...

is there anything we can do to stop all the bullshit missimformation??

...like getting idiot doctors sacked, or string the bastards up!

i dont know...


....ramble....ramble....ramble......

 

[opiatekrzy]

Ok i really need to post on this dandy super bupe thread, i am not sure if the exact degree of my problem is on here, but my irritability levels and patience are not very level now, due to lack of sleep and opiate w/d..so i just dont have the energy to scroll through all the bupe threads when i only have maybe 5 mins of energy to post this, so please forgive me blue lighters.
Last wednesday i went to my doctor to be put on Suboxone, in which i was given a daily dose of 8mg 2x daily. i was irresponsible and went into his office when i was not in heroin withdrawl, actually i used quite alot of smack the previous night, so obviously i went into precipitated (sp) withdrawls that morning when the doctor handed me my first dose..ok that was my fault, i was in bed from wednesday morning until saturday evening sick as a dog in worse withdrawl i ever experienced, partly due to taking the suboxone while i still had heroin in my system? anyway that should be irrelevant right now, because i havent put an opiate in my system since tuesday,therefore the suboxen should be preventing withdrawl correct? I been dosing usually by taking 4mg sublingual in the morning, maybe in the early evening 4mg, or then at night 2mg..i however tried 8mg sublingual at once, and broke the other 8mg pill down throughout the day but it made me feel like shit more, so i been using lower doses/testing different dose methods throughout the day. Was my heroin habit really that bad where suboxen isn't fully relieving me from withdrawl? dont get me wrong, my mental cravings are diminished a WHOLE lot, but i still feel physically in heroin withdrawl...obviously there is a ceiling effect on suboxen, and i feel 16mg daily is a high dose as it is, so i doubt increasing my dose will reduce withdrawls..probably jusy give me horrible side effects suboxen has to offer, like headaches and chills..is it possible the naltrexone sublingually is playing a role in making me feel sick still? just so confused why i dont feel better? i know why i felt like shit the first 3 days on suboxone because i wasnt in withdrawl, but that was almost a week ago..things should be getting better? any help, please?

 

[mitragyna]

People to seem to misunderstand what suboxone really does with other opiates.

It doesnt COMPLETELY block the effects of other full agonist opiates. It saturates the receptors so that the other drug doesnt easily bind, and has fewer receptors to bind to. This causes a decrease in the effects of the full-agonist, but it does not make it totally inactive. There are still receptors left, and depending on the opiate, Id assume (dont know for sure) that some of the buprenorphine can be replaced on the receptors. Someone will have to confirm/deny that.

What I mean is, you can get high an hour after taking suboxone if you wanted to. The only thing is, if you take your normal amount, you wont feel anywhere close to the full effects. In order to do that, you'd have to take a considerable amount more than your normal dosage. That is not suggested though, because obviously, the risk of OD becomes higher.

There has been times where Ive done heroin 4 - 6 hours after taking suboxone. I still felt it when I did my normal dose, but I had to do a lot more than normal to get really high.

Thanks for posting that. I was completely unaware that it's possible you can still get high. Not that I'd want to.

 

[mitragyna]

hmm....wait did u take opiates, and are scared u will be kicked off the bupe program because u broke the rule and used opiates and u know the doc will test you? my mistake! goodluck!

• Do most of you guys get piss tested when you go to get ur Bupe scripts?
• How many days worth of Bupe does your doc give you at once? Like a month supply?
• Anyone here prescribed Bupe strictly for depression?

 

[opiatekrzy]

yes the bupe doctor will piss test u ur initial visit, and on followups to make sure ur not using any other drugs, and if u are, he could kick u off treatment. and yes u can get a month supply at once if u can afford it, for now i only get weekly supplies because of insurance problems. and no im not on it for depression, im on it for heroin withdrawl

 

[Akomplice]

Bro I don't know why you're trying to extend your suboxone.

The withdrawls from that last longer and are in my opinion worse than heroin or oxycontin.

It lasts like wayyyy longer.

You shouldn't be on suboxone for months and months, the only reason a doctor would do that is $$$$$$.

A real addiction doctor would know that if you're on suboxone for that long you're going to become dependent on it.

They actually all know this and it seems like a lot of them are just out for $$MONEY$$, like imagine this you're a addiction specialist that can prescribe suboxone.
Most of them say "we don't take insurance", (Oh how convenient lol).

Then they put you on the shit for 6 months, all the while making a shit load of money off you cause they know they can. And viola you're addicted to that shit now..
It's capitalization at it's best. Taking advantage of junkies and addicts.

My suggestion to you would be to get off of that shit as soon as you can, you basically switched substances and you are going to get withdrawls from that shit and it's going to be worse than heroin was.

Best of luck to you man

Peace bro, Take it easy


-Akomplice

 

[GenericMind]

Quitting Opiates isn't a short process. It can take months and months for you to recover mentally to a level considered normal. Even if you don't have a mood disorder, a mood stabilizer may help ease the mood swings associated with recovery. Worse case scenario, you can always stop taking them after recovery. I doubt your Doctor suggested them to get you to spend more money.

 

[BumpyJohnson]

I couldn't agree more ^.. I definately think getting on a mood stabilizer will be in your best interest.. tapering down ANY opiate for that matter.. or ANY benzo as well isn't going to just be a walk in the park.. it literally takes months if not years in some cases for someone's body (physically,mentally etc) to recover from extended substance abuse/use.. I don't think any doctor can pin point exactly your personal reason for using.. I'm a firm believer that we know our own body's the best.. and I'd be willing to bet that you know exactly why you decided to start using.. we all can..
I just want to recommend that you stick with this doctor for a while.. and not until you finally finish your taper.. but stick with him for a while afterwards and take it slow.. there's a reason why they say.. "one day at a time"..
Today is my 3rd day after finishing a 160mg+ methadone habit a day.. I tapered down to 0mg's in 5 days.. granted I have taken suboxone..
but it can be done.. and I wish ya all the best..

 

[opiatekrzy]

physically quitting opiates is a short process, i swear mentally it plays a toll big time in the reward center and your outlook on life changes and mood swings totally, scared of unknown, fear.-mental long process