Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[johanneschimpo]

Its not about suboxone creating a large cross-tolerance, Suboxone blocks other opioids (like heroin) because it binds stronger to the receptors than other opioids do. (Although that is how methadone works, to some extent, by creating a huge tolerance so that other opioids are less effective)

Suboxone then opioid (agonist) = zero or diminished effect
Opioid (agonist) then suboxone = sickness


dread: I recommend you read this thread, all 37 pages if you have to, just to make sure you have all your facts straight. This forum is a "heavy-handed war zone," or so they say, so its good to know the facts about whatever the subject is at hand.
Or, if you don't want to read 37 pages about suboxone, just skim through and read my posts. Those are usually the only ones that matter.

 

[dread]

Or, if you don't want to read 37 pages about suboxone, just skim through and read my posts. Those are usually the only ones that matter.

Good to know you have a healthy self-esteem.

I was talking on purely practical level, not about the mechanisms of how buprenorphine works.

Buprenorphine is a partial mu-agonist and a kappa-antagonist. Most heavy-duty opioids, like H, are pure or nearly pure Mu-agonists. Therefore the agonistic activity of buprenorphine should not stall the effects of H...

But you are right about buprenorphine having a higher binding affinity, this is also why the naloxone on suboxone-pills does not prevent IV usage. However, if you just dose enough H it will work on top of the buprenorphine, this out of personal experience...

 

[Carl Landrover]

Also, I snort my suboxone, so it kicks in a lot faster compared to you, so that could be why I dont sleep as well when I try to go back to sleep. The stimulation comes on quick and makes it hard to sleep.

If being too drowsy is bothering you, it wont hurt to give something with caffeine in it a try. It may not help much, but it may help just enough, you know? Maybe drink a soda instead of taking an Excedrine? I dont know, its up to you. Excedrine wont hurt, as long as you dont over-do it, obviously, but Im sure you already knew that.

A weaker stomach is probably the answer in your case, but like you said, if you have weed, youre alright.

I've never tried snorting sub, seems pretty gross, and I have enough trouble with just snorting H.

In addition to leftover pills from when I used to be prescribed it, I have a bag where I used to split pills and it's got a few mg's of powder. I notice if I dab my finger in it and rub it under my tongue, it hits a lot quicker and there's a sudden noticeable change from feeling shitty to feeling good. It also seems to fade off quicker, but maybe it's because I'm not sure how much I'm dosing with? Anyone else ever do this, taking the powder sublingual instead of taking whole pieces?

I'm trying to get off of sub, so with dosing less I think the drowsiness is fading, but I guess there is always caffeine. I haven't had a soda since June 28, 1997 and I probably won't go that route, which is why I mentioned Excedrin, plus there's already some in my house, which makes it pretty easy.

 

[sixpartseven]

Taking crushed powder sublingually will work better, at least in theory, but Im sure in practice too. Larger surface area allows it so absorb much faster. Its also why parachuting pills works better than swallowing whole.

Excedrine will be ok to take if you want a little boost out of drowsiness.

 

[ellua]

In addition to leftover pills from when I used to be prescribed it, I have a bag where I used to split pills and it's got a few mg's of powder. I notice if I dab my finger in it and rub it under my tongue, it hits a lot quicker and there's a sudden noticeable change from feeling shitty to feeling good. It also seems to fade off quicker, but maybe it's because I'm not sure how much I'm dosing with? Anyone else ever do this, taking the powder sublingual instead of taking whole pieces?

this is how i take mine every day- make a little pocket out of an index card & crush 4mg at a time (not down to dust, just smash once or twice and its broken down plenty). then funnel it under the tongue. it absorbs faster and i almost never swallow any of it, compared to when i tried putting half or even 1/4 of an 8mg tab under my tonge in one piece- it slides around and i'd end up swallowing a lot of medicine.

i just told my doctor last week that i crush it up & take it, because my boyfriend thinks that i'm "abusing" it by doing this. all the doc said was "i don't care if you're crushing it first as long as it's not going up your nose..." blech you'd have to pay me to put that shit up my nose, so fucking disgusting... the b/a at best is only marginally higher than sublingual, and at worst is a total waste. totally not worth it imo.

 

[sixpartseven]

^ Actually, the BA is a lot higher intranasally than sublingually (around 30% - 40% higher), but, Im not going to encourage anyone to snort it just because I do it. If sublingual works for you, then perfect. No need to change that.

EDIT - Looks like it may only be about 20% higher, or at the very most, 30% higher.

EDIT 2 - Ok, I was (almost) right. The bioavailability is 70% - 80%, which puts it at 40% - 50% higher than sublingual.

SOURCE Its in there, but you have to kind of dig for it. The words BIOAVAILABILITY and BUPRENORPHINE are highlighted throughout, so it makes it easier to find.

 

[Carl Landrover]

One last question! Do any of you guys drink while on suboxone? When I was on 2-4mg daily, and hadn't been drinking prior to getting on it, I hated alcohol. I would get terrible hangovers that nothing could end, usually weed would help, but not with these.

I've been on very low doses this summer, just trying to take the bare minimum to get by, and I've noticed I can still drink and not feel sick. I do feel like it blocks some of the more pleasurable effects of alcohol, but I can still get pretty drunk.

It does feel like alcohol makes the suboxone fade off quicker, I'll need to dose again earlier in the morning. Has anyone experienced that or have experience with drinking + sub in general?


Thanks again for all the replies guys!

 

[KaliKid]

I got my first suboxin pill about a month ago, and I still have about half of it left.

The person who gave me this pill recommended I sniff tiny parts at a time, and that's how I've been consuming it. What I get off it isn't a high, more of a calming effect.

I've used it something like 10 times within this month, and because of it, I've stopped using:

vicodin
extacy
marijuana
alcohol
cocaine

Only side effect I see is 3-4 days after not using, I have splitting headaches... lucky for me ibprofen 600 fixes it right up.

 

[j0nj0n]

can u get sick on suboxone but not subutex?

like my title says.i know they're the same drug. Suboxone has the opiate blocker in it. other than that they are pretty much the same drug, correct? my friend is telling me you can't get sick from the subutex but you can suboxone. Now i have experience w/ suboxones and i know you can get sick from those.

 

[bingey]

Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about

buprenorphine is a very potent opiate blocker in itself

so subutex can cause precipitated withdrawal just like suboxone

if you take your suboxone normally the naloxone is barely absorbed

p.s merging

 

[Valis]

I just read this whole thread in one go. It took several hours. Christ, the repetition. But a brilliant resource.. Moderators, I doff my cap to you, you poor sods..

 

[sixpartseven]

like my title says.i know they're the same drug. Suboxone has the opiate blocker in it. other than that they are pretty much the same drug, correct? my friend is telling me you can't get sick from the subutex but you can suboxone. Now i have experience w/ suboxones and i know you can get sick from those.

When suboxone makes you sick, its actually the buprenorphine that is making you sick, since it binds to the receptors stronger than naloxone does. It pretty much makes the naloxone ineffective, so yes, subutex will make you just as sick as suboxone.

 

[Virtuoso]

When suboxone makes you sick, its actually the buprenorphine that is making you sick, since it binds to the receptors stronger than naloxone does. It pretty much makes the naloxone ineffective, so yes, subutex will make you just as sick as suboxone.

IIRC bupe has a higher affinity for the dopamine receptors than naloxone, and because of this you cannot use naloxone as a resuscitation agent for a bupe overdose. So if you are opiate naive and use bupe than the naloxone wont matter. If you are taking other opiates when you take the bupe the naloxone will bind for 15-45 minutes, but after that the bupe will take over and displace the naloxone.

 

[Mr Blonde]

IIRC bupe has a higher affinity for the dopamine receptors than naloxone

Opioid receptors you mean. Yes, the affinity makes it hard to get someone out of an OD, I think large amounts of naloxone work though.

 

[johanneschimpo]

^ Damn, Mr B (and 6/7), don't you wonder how many times we will have to go over the while bupe/naloxone thing?

 

[Mr Blonde]

It never ends...

 

[Virtuoso]

Opioid receptors you mean. Yes, the affinity makes it hard to get someone out of an OD, I think large amounts of naloxone work though.

Whoops, wasn't paying attention when typing. Eyes fixed on CSI. I meant opioid receptors.

 

[sixpartseven]

^ Damn, Mr B (and 6/7), don't you wonder how many times we will have to go over the while bupe/naloxone thing?

Check out the "I hate suboxone" thread. I just spent 20 minutes quoting and typing to argue points Ive had to make thousands of times in the past.

As Mr. B says, it never ends...

IIRC bupe has a higher affinity for the dopamine receptors than naloxone, and because of this you cannot use naloxone as a resuscitation agent for a bupe overdose. So if you are opiate naive and use bupe than the naloxone wont matter. If you are taking other opiates when you take the bupe the naloxone will bind for 15-45 minutes, but after that the bupe will take over and displace the naloxone.

Thats true. OD's of buprenorphine require a stronger antagonist, like Nalmefene. Its one of the only antagonists that can reverse a bupe OD.

And what you are saying about the naloxone/bupe essentially fighting for receptors is somewhat true, but more of a theory than anything. Its a suggested reason for why IV suboxone doesnt cause a rush when IV subutex does; the naloxone and buprenorphine compete for receptors for 15 - 20 minutes until the buprenorphine binds.

I can personally account for that. When I used to IV suboxone, the effects wouldnt take hold for 15 minutes, and I NEVER felt a rush.

That said, I dont know if that is the actual reason for it.

 

[ellua]

One last question! Do any of you guys drink while on suboxone? When I was on 2-4mg daily, and hadn't been drinking prior to getting on it, I hated alcohol. I would get terrible hangovers that nothing could end, usually weed would help, but not with these.

i didn't drink before i was on it either, really.

i drink about 4-5 nights a week, usually one strong captain & coke @ home but about once a week i'll have 3-5 mixed drinks, and i don't get sick. the first several months on it though i had to wait ~4 hours after dosing to drink or i'd inevitably throw up after 1 or 2 drinks. that doesn't happen any more though.

 

[Carl Landrover]

^
Interesting, thanks for the reply. Did it give you bad hangovers at first too? Would/do you notice less 'euphoric' effects from alcohol? I know not everyone gets euphoria from alcohol, especially after opiates, but was wondering if you noticed a decreased feeling on suboxone?