Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[ingannilo]

re:chicagolove

thanks for the responses... well to be honest, i guess the bags im doing are probably about a quarter to a third of a gram , i mean the hookup i have is definitely bigger and stronger than any other dimes ive seen around, more like a dubsack i guess. but im steady at one a day... not sure if that changes the situation. isnt that kinda more like 2-3 bags in standard terms? (ill try to weigh one out tomorrow to be more specific). not dicksizing here, just trying to make sure i go about this right.

the psychedelic idea is actually not a bad one. they've usually always left me in a really good state of mind. although last time i took acid over the winter, the comedown was softened incredibly by heroin. it was quite beautiful. shrooms are easier going though. anyways enough nonsense, i dont think im going to trip the week away instead of using this bupe. maybe ill save that trip for the depression i might have next week. it seems like it could help then.

as far as how long to wait before dosing bupe, is twelve hours enough (ya know, last bit of dope before i go to bed, and then try to wait it out till noon the next day)? or is the idea to be very uncomfortable beforehand... like wait a day being 24 hours? can i get a second opinion on the bupe dosage/shedule (no offense to ingannilo, it would just make me more comfortable to get a few more opinions from people who've been in this situation).




cheers

I really don't suggest using psychedelics during withdrawal. Using them afterwards to "break the mental addiction" can help somewhat (but it's still an excuse to not come to terms with it on your own).

If you trip while you're sick I'd expect hell, torture. The combined vulnerability from psychedelics and the doubt/anxiety/depression of withdrawal could come together in mad/sadness (read: suicidal depression). I wouldn't want to hallucinate while being so sad/worried/in pain.

I may, may, advocate using them once you're done with the taper and withdrawal to "get over the drugs" but it's counterintuitive and counterproductive to the total goal, which is having a sense of sober mastery over opiates.

I'm not the type of person that has an easy time asking for help, or great skill in doing so. I should have put that into a question, because that's what I meant it as. Plus I have zero people to talk to now about any of this.

So how do I do it so as not to waste it? Is it suppose to taste bitter? I read something in here about using alcohol to break it down better. I have vodka I can use. Should I try this and how? Also some people say take it once a day, some multiple times, what is best?

Thank you

If you go back one page (page 18 --edit "page eighteen" showed up as a smiley?) I typed up an answer to that question. The amount of tension in your tongue/jaw muscles can have a lot to do with how much saliva you produce at a given time. You want to breathe through your nose and relax your jaw/tongue. Do not swallow any spit that tastes of buprenorphine (bitter alkaloid/chemical taste) because that is wasting the drug. It's all about technique. Breathe slowly through your nose and relax all those muscles. After about 30 minutes you're good to spit/swallow. Time is the biggest thing: the first time I went on bup my technique was horrible and I needed larger amounts than I should've because of it. Just make sure you set aside 30 miuntes in the morning to lay in bed, read/listen to music/whatever for 30 minutes with it under your tongue. No talking, drinking, smoking or whatnot.

 

[Eight0Eight]

^ I've shot up Ketamine while in serious WD on several occasions.

Its good to start with, as (as long as you've done enough) - you can't feel your body and mind.

But as soon as it starts wearing off its FUCKING HORRIBLE. Your confused, dizzy and wonky - but still really really sick. Its not nice. At this point you often start having really dark "visions" in your mind as you start to remember your dope WD.

Avoid.

 

[chicagolove]

alright well i shoulda seen the merge coming, but now i feel like my question is lost in the mix, pages back. so quick version. daily heroin sniffing habit for 6 months, methadone clinic (55-60mg) for two months, down to about 45mg when i got off. slept in two saturdays ago and missed weekend dosage. got dope. huge tolerance, bigger than it had ever been at 5 bags (1.5 grams). throughout this past hellish nine days ive tapered it down to the 1 bag (.30 grams) i did yesterday. i've got 4, 8mg suboxone tablets, and about 22 10mg valiums. i originally wanted to do a quick five day sub taper once i got the heroin dosage low enough, but im a bit nervous about doing that now. im thinking maybe i should continue my heroin taper. its 3pm, ive been up since about 9:30, and have done barely any dope, along with 5mg valium. i feel like i might be able to keep it to half a bag today (.15 grams). i was really depressed this morning for a bit, but im determined to get off (im leaving town for a 12 day vacation, 17 days from now). And im assuming i want to give myself at least a week or so buffer before i get out of town. should i just keep tapering down to nothing over this week? should i do a sub taper?

 

[ingannilo]

alright well i shoulda seen the merge coming, but now i feel like my question is lost in the mix, pages back. so quick version. daily heroin sniffing habit for 6 months, methadone clinic (55-60mg) for two months, down to about 45mg when i got off. slept in two saturdays ago and missed weekend dosage. got dope. huge tolerance, bigger than it had ever been at 5 bags (1.5 grams). throughout this past hellish nine days ive tapered it down to the 1 bag (.30 grams) i did yesterday. i've got 4, 8mg suboxone tablets, and about 22 10mg valiums. i originally wanted to do a quick five day sub taper once i got the heroin dosage low enough, but im a bit nervous about doing that now. im thinking maybe i should continue my heroin taper. its 3pm, ive been up since about 9:30, and have done barely any dope, along with 5mg valium. i feel like i might be able to keep it to half a bag today (.15 mg). i was really depressed this morning for a bit, but im determined to get off (im leaving town for a 12 day vacation, 17 days from now). And im assuming i want to give myself at least a week or so buffer before i get out of town. should i just keep tapering down to nothing over this week? should i do a sub taper?

Okay, firstly if 5 bags is 1.5 grams then half of a bag is not .15mg. Let's get the calculator out and clarify for us how much you're doing.

But I've responded in your thread before it was merged, once in the megathread & here it comes again:

Start with 2mg of buprenorphine tops. I'd suggest powdering the 2mg and taking slightly more than half of it the first go round. If that isn't enough (wait at least two or three hours to determine this) take the other pile.

Now the amount of smack you've said you're doing has waxed and waned hugely for <48 hours so I can't help but think it's an arithmetic issue.

The rule is to start small and dose no more than you need to function. You will not feel good. Nobody feels good the first day from full agonist --> buprenorphine and trying to feel good or even "normal" will just result in a huge spike in tolerance. Bup is a partial agonist. You'll have to bite it this way or the hard way, without the bup.

^ I've shot up Ketamine while in serious WD on several occasions.

Its good to start with, as (as long as you've done enough) - you can't feel your body and mind.

But as soon as it starts wearing off its FUCKING HORRIBLE. Your confused, dizzy and wonky - but still really really sick. Its not nice. At this point you often start having really dark "visions" in your mind as you start to remember your dope WD.

Avoid.

ketamine is a hypnotic/dissociative with some psychedelic properties. Drugs like LSD or Psylocibin (the so called "pure" psychedelics) would be a very different experience, and surely have the potential to wreak havoc on the mind, especially if that mind is in withdrawal. Not to mention what being in all that pain will do to you while tripping. I'd think that could (most likely would) be fucking horrible.

 

[Nova]

I take a super low dose (between .125 and .5mg) as an anti-depressant/anxiolytic. I originally got on it because I was addicted to opiates, but I used opiates because they helped my depression/anxiety. The drug lifestyle ups and downs involved with living day to day with a street addiction became too much so I got on sub to taper off opiates then got back on sub later at low dose 'maintenance'.

 

[chicagolove]

whoops... yeah meant to say half a bag being .15 grams, not mg... typo
so yeah .30 grams yesterday, shooting for .15grams today (half a bag), i mean if i get it that low, and lower tomorrow, should i even use the bupe or just keep tapering... and ingannilo, i dont mean any disrespect for your advice when i try to get a second and third opinion on the matter, or to see if anything changes by giving you the exact grams of dope im doing each day. and im still not clear on if a 12 hr wait is enough to use the bupe. ive gone back and read half the thread this morning and just feel a bit more confused on what i should do in this matter.

 

[Betterdaze]

If you go back one page (page 18 --edit "page eighteen" showed up as a smiley?) I typed up an answer to that question. The amount of tension in your tongue/jaw muscles can have a lot to do with how much saliva you produce at a given time. You want to breathe through your nose and relax your jaw/tongue. Do not swallow any spit that tastes of buprenorphine (bitter alkaloid/chemical taste) because that is wasting the drug. It's all about technique. Breathe slowly through your nose and relax all those muscles. After about 30 minutes you're good to spit/swallow. Time is the biggest thing: the first time I went on bup my technique was horrible and I needed larger amounts than I should've because of it. Just make sure you set aside 30 miuntes in the morning to lay in bed, read/listen to music/whatever for 30 minutes with it under your tongue. No talking, drinking, smoking or whatnot.

Thanks m8, Yesterday I started with 4mgs of sub, today I started with just 2mgs using the suggestions from in here. Seems to have worked pretty well so far, but I'll get better with time. I feel better today, now having some confidence that Sub can take care of most of the physical side of the W/D's. I was really stressing last night though.
I was unable to sleep at all last night. Is that a side effect? I did take that second dose quite late.

 

[phatass]

i think this is a very bad idea... you must have a strange doc

 

[PinK~cloud]

I just thought i'd add in something about suboxone blocking power at 2mg a day since there are some questions about it (they're undoubtably answered but...) i thought i would add input since i have personal experience.

anyway, yesterday i took my 2mg suboxone around 11:30 am. i was in a rush and not focusing on minimizing spit so it was sort of a lost cause and i swallowed it. i probably absorbed maybe .5-1 mg.

a few weeks ago i aquired two 80 MG oxycontin. i dosed them today around 29 hours since my last dose. i did 120mg of oxy to start. i immidiately felt the oxy, which was pretty shocking. i've continued to dose and now i'm in a euphoric state of nodding. when i was on 16mg a day, i waited a day to use 60mg of oxycodone, and felt nothing. i believe it is easier to blast your way through the bupe at 2mg a day like arnold schwartzenegger killing shit in terminator (sp?).

Cliff notes version:
you only have to wait 24-36 hours on a 2mg suboxone daily regiment, just expect to use about 1.5 times of your drug of choice.


i apologize if this has been covered.

Sub can take care of most of the physical side of the W/D's.
I was unable to sleep at all last night. Is that a side effect? I did take that second dose quite late.

true, subs help minimize withdrawal, but i think that it's the most valuable because it keeps people at bay with little to no cravings. also i think it's a deterent because its such a bitch to work your way around the long half life to get high.

and bupe is notorious for having some stimulating properties. i personally have never had a problem, in fact, i'm the polar opposite of you i sleep like a baby. try to take subs earlier in the day, about 8 hours before you go to bed.

 

[cire113]

I experienced precipitated withdrawals from suboxone yesterday... Ill ate some opium the night before waited 24 hrs and still went into precipated w/ds

I must say though the Precipitated w/ds were not as bad ass naltrexone induced precipiated withdrawals...

What is the general advice on precipiated w/ds?

I took my first dose got precipated then every 4 hrs took 1 mg .... i felt like shit for a while then around 3am in the morning i actually felt a buzz from the bupe which never happens

 

[Jabberwocky]

could you tell us a little more about how you got to being prescribed buprenorphine for your depression/anxiety, Larsy1566? i and i'm sure a lot of others are interested to hear a little more. i think it's the first time i've heard of someone on BL being prescribed for those reasons. i've only heard accounts from other people saying they've heard of people on it before, but never an individual account.

merged into bupe mega thread.

 

[missyKO]

okay so this has probably been touched on in here but i can't seem to find the particular post that covers my question. i apologize in advance.

I'm a heavy heroin user spending well over a grand a week to get stuff and I think I'm ready to stop. I'm making an appt with a local sub doctor even though I don't have insurance bc I'm thinking it will be less expensive to pay for my meds than the heroin i buy daily. I was wondering to anyone who has been in sub treatment or is currently in treatment if you had any trouble going back to work or functioning at a normal pace? I have a very physical job and I work a lot of hours and I don't know if I should take a couple days off to get used to it. Is it even necessary? And how long until I start to feel "normal" again? My habit has been a secret to everyone in my life and showing signs of severe withdrawal would cause some confusion among family and friends.

Basically I'm looking for any input about the beginning of treatment and suggestions to keep others in the dark about my problems with opiates. I'm afraid if I keep this up I will lose my functioning addict lifestyle and lose everything/everyone in my life. Thank you- I really appreciate any input

 

[PinK~cloud]

the best part about suboxone is that after a day or two of being on the stuff, the high almost disappears completely. the withdrawals from quitting heroin will be taken care of and you can continue on with your life. alot of people use suboxone for many years because it handles cravings and people can function on it. probably the best part of suboxone, at least for me, is that i cannot use another opiate for at least a few days after stopping my suboxone.

on a final note, make sure you really want to continue on with suboxone after your heroin withdrawals are gone and taken care of. i kind of regret getting on the stuff long term, i find that it is very hard to quit.

good luck~
PC

could you tell us a little more about how you got to being prescribed buprenorphine for your depression/anxiety, Larsy1566? i and i'm sure a lot of others are interested to hear a little more. i think it's the first time i've heard of someone on BL being prescribed for those reasons. i've only heard accounts from other people saying they've heard of people on it before, but never an individual account.

merged into bupe mega thread.

tho this wasnt meant for me LW, i want to contribute my experience with subs and anxiety/depression. since being on the stuff i have lost most of my worries which used to control so much of my life. i'm happier these days, more content. i used to hate being alone, but these days i love my own time. when i stop suboxone for a few days to use here and there, i get that same old feeling of being antsy at home and wanting to go and do something, or be with someone. in addition, for the first time in my life i'm actually happy. i battled depression every day for almost 7 years.
i think suboxone is a wonderful drug for anxiety and depression.

 

[kasad]

it helps to use some gear on top of sub, like about 1 hour after sub, first 2 days.

You won't feel the actual high, but it will help level you out.. Just remember the order is:

wait long enough to wd
subutex/suboxone
THEN some gear

is you use subs while you still have some gear in your system you'll go into precipitated wd's which needless to say suck major ass

 

[Jesse Drake II]

the best part about suboxone is that after a day or two of being on the stuff, the high almost disappears completely. the withdrawals from quitting heroin will be taken care of and you can continue on with your life. alot of people use suboxone for many years because it handles cravings and people can function on it. probably the best part of suboxone, at least for me, is that i cannot use another opiate for at least a few days after stopping my suboxone.

on a final note, make sure you really want to continue on with suboxone after your heroin withdrawals are gone and taken care of. i kind of regret getting on the stuff long term, i find that it is very hard to quit.

good luck~
PC



tho this wasnt meant for me LW, i want to contribute my experience with subs and anxiety/depression. since being on the stuff i have lost most of my worries which used to control so much of my life. i'm happier these days, more content. i used to hate being alone, but these days i love my own time. when i stop suboxone for a few days to use here and there, i get that same old feeling of being antsy at home and wanting to go and do something, or be with someone. in addition, for the first time in my life i'm actually happy. i battled depression every day for almost 7 years.
i think suboxone is a wonderful drug for anxiety and depression.

I am in the same boat as far as the anxiety/depression thing. Over the past month, I've dabbled with some hard hitting opiates, and dropped off the sub, then while waiting to go back on the sub, the anxiety was so freaking high up that I would want to flip out. Not to mention, the whole experience going back to the hard opiates was really not that great. I feel normal and balanced on sub, being able to work my stressful job, with random hours. I would much rather "Sub Stable" over "Opiate Bliss to Crazy" anyday. Maybe I'm just getting old, and tired of burning that candle at both ends.

 

[Arobskittle]

8mg subutex question

I dont have a super high opiate tolerace, but i got an 8mg subutex and i was wondering what would be the best way to take it?
Like half? the whole thing? tiny pieces?
I did UTFSE but i couldn't find anything for someone with a weak tolerance or a mg dosage

 

[Jesse Drake II]

This ?? could go into the "SUB MEGATHREAD"... If you have a low tolerance, I would suggest less than 2mg's if possible...

 

[Arobskittle]

thanks.
mods feel free to move this.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Bupe has a pretty hefty half life so if u take too much u'll be feeling like shit for a long time. I know someone with a weak opiate tolerance that took 4mg and it wasn't a pretty sight. She was vomiting and was very dizzy. I suggest taking 1mg first, wait 1 to 1.5hrs and if u r fine take another 1mg and repeat to get to where u want to be. It's impossible for people to tell u how much to take. Just know that it's very strong opioid.

 

[chicagolove]

Little update here... Five days ago two and a half bags (.75grams)Four days ago bag and half (.45 grams). Three days ago about a bag and a quarter (.38grams). Two days ago snorted one bag(.30grams). Yesterday I barely did any. Maybe a tenth of a bag? Definitely less than a quarter bag (btw .07 and .05 grams). That was spread out throughout the day in approx thirds. So today I've gone without any heroin. About 16 hours since I last used. Took two loperamide tabs (4mgs) this morning. And ten mgs of Valium spread put throuought the day along with two aleve liquigels (440 mg naproxen sodium) this morning, and two a second ago. Feeling like I might be able to last the day without any opiates. My friend is helpin me out with some ambien to sleep at night. I'm considering doing this cold turkey (I still do have the 32 mg bupe and about 60mg methadone). I'm a little afraid to take the bupe since I tapered down so low. I just. Want this cycle to end. But I've never withdrawn since I've been on opiates (since December). So I'm pretty nervous about it all. Should use today as the last taper day (just a tiny line or two). Will that prolong the pain? Or make the next few days easier? What about loperamide? I took two (4mgs) this morning, And it seemed to fend off cravings. Am I prolonging the pain with that or helping ease it (it is an opiate). Thanks guys, girls.