Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[Captain.Heroin]

oh - yeah, i forgot - either the above theory OR you're just getting really bad dope - .3g of H should equal or exceed an Oxy 80

0.3g of heroin should equate to like...three OC80's...at least, that was the shit I was used to getting.

 

[JaDiuM]

^^^^ no doubt cap'n H^^^^^^

some people find it worthwhile to pay up to $1 per mg for oxy to avoid the social stigma of H (even though with all the media BS i'd rather be on Heroin than Hillbilly Heroin)

i can't imagine how strong that powdered stuff is east of the rockies - the tar i get these days is about as economically viable as it gets - short of a $3 copay bottle of 80s i guess

i hope this post doesn't offend some as stating prices - just to point out it seems about 10 TIMES more expensive for those fkn pills

 

[JaDiuM]

hey Dwid - i found this regarding sub & pregnancy:

http://www.personalconsult.com/articles/suboxone/pregnancyandsuboxone.html

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^^^^ no doubt cap'n H^^^^^^

some people find it worthwhile to pay up to $1 per mg for oxy to avoid the social stigma of H (even though with all the media BS i'd rather be on Heroin than Hillbilly Heroin)

i can't imagine how strong that powdered stuff is east of the rockies - the tar i get these days is about as economically viable as it gets - short of a $3 copay bottle of 80s i guess

i hope this post doesn't offend some as stating prices - just to point out it seems about 10 TIMES more expensive for those fkn pills

I completely agree with you.

People always have this disillusionment about pills, they think it must be safe because it's a pill. I live in an area that only sees powder heroin, and when people pay up to $1 per mg for oxycodone, hydrocodone, etc, it always hit me how people prefer comfortable ignorance instead of a harsh reality.

I don't understand the stigma behind heroin. I think that the ignorance the government has spread about drugs is becoming quite old IMO.

 

[Tchort]

Methadone has a much longer track record of being used to maintain mothers through and after pregnancy. People say Buprenorphine works similarly, I haven't seen any studies that support this? Often, a woman on MMT who becomes pregnant will have her dose raised once or several times throughout the pregnancy. They say a pregnant woman, during pregnancy, may find her usual dose is no longer holding her- and this is similarly harmful to the fetus as withdrawal- so her dose is raised. Due to the ceiling of Buprenorphine, it may not be adequate for a pregnant addict compared to Methadone. One paper I read recommended women maintained on Buprenorphine to switch to Methadone during pregnancy, then switch back to Bupe after birth.

 

[Drench]

Thanks for the help guys, the pain ended up getting quite bad again tonight so I did a couple of tramadols, a couple of the co-codamols and aprox 0.5mg of bupe, the pain faded nearly completely within half an hour and I got no precipitated withdrawals or anything nasty.

I did some more research and found out that unless you're dependant on an opiate then bupe doesn't cause the dreaded precipitated withdrawals, I've never been dependant on an opiate and my use has been very light recently so I thought I'd just go for it, seems that no harms been done.

I'm taking the co-codamol alongside the bupe because of the different way in which the paracetamol (acetaminophen) helps to stop pain, and hey, I've realised 16mg codeine isn't going to cause any problems...

I do enjoy the synergy of bupe and tramadol together and I find that these drugs seem to be a very effective combination for pain relief and I get a noticable mood lift, I've also got Ibuprofen to take if I need them because my face has swollen up kinda like a hamster now

Tomorrow morning I plan to take a couple of tramadols, 1mg of bupe and a 5mg diazepam to help my day fly past, I'll be topping up the tramadols and adding in co-codamol/ibuprofen when I feel the need. I know that paracetamol is bad new for the liver so I'm trying not to take anymore than 1000mg a day.

Peace

Drench

 

[PinK~cloud]

oh hey - pink cloud -

did you end up feeling the oxy? also, the .3 g of dope you smoked - was it tar or powder? i'm curious - because it seemed 72 hours of no bupe after only taking 2mg should of definitely allowed you to feel the bupe... you felt nothing at all? the oxy afterwords?

A theory here - since you're a smoker/sniffer your habit was probably never THAT great - you still have a reasonably healthy endorphin system - the 2mg is more than enough to hold you, and the way the 1/2 life works, even after 72 hours you had enough bupe in you to completely block the dope...

It seems your circumstances are WAY different than mine - I can shoot .5g off tar after 4mg of sub taken 3 hours earlier and feel it quite nicely

it was just mediocre tar H. my friend shot .2g of it (we got.6 total) and texted me "THIS SHIT IS GOOD" so i assumed i was in for a treat. i also smoked .4 48 hours in and felt nothing either. the first time i smoked it i was rushing and did it shitty. with the .3g i smoked it perfectly, i dont know what happened. it pissed me off tho. maybe it was the way i did it. or how i smoked it, little pieces at a time so that i didnt run a risk of burning my whole stash in one little accident. it was weird, because i had typical sub withdrawal before smoking either time, and it cleared it up.

With the oxy, i felt most of the effects. what about 20 mg of oxy would feel like w/o a tolerance. i did potentiate it with tagamet as well. in terms of ROA i sucked off the coating and crushed the fucker up, then spooned it into my mouth and washed it down with water. it was great. first time i've been really high (did methadone 1 other time) since i started this shit involuntarily. i continued on with the subs tho the day after- i cant run a risk of doing more and goin crazy.

but anywho, the thing with the H is really annoying me. right now, i cant let myself IV. I just know that if i did that'd be it for me; i'd be back to where i was, a hopeless poor fucking addict with a way to get even higher. i'm thinking about plugging the next H i get. who knows.

when it comes to suboxone i've been trying to get off for around a month now, casually trying here and there. i work my way down to 1 or 2 mg and give it up, only to make it like 4 or 5 days with terrible restless leg syndrome and deep depression then end up takin .5mg. bad cycle. i talked to my doc to see if i could get some 2mg pills to make the dividing a little easier. it's such a bitch to make an 8mg sub into 16 parts.

any tips or advice for any of these situations??

 

[PinK~cloud]

I completely agree with you.

People always have this disillusionment about pills, they think it must be safe because it's a pill. I live in an area that only sees powder heroin, and when people pay up to $1 per mg for oxycodone, hydrocodone, etc, it always hit me how people prefer comfortable ignorance instead of a harsh reality.

I don't understand the stigma behind heroin. I think that the ignorance the government has spread about drugs is becoming quite old IMO.

continuing on, using oxy over H just because of the stigma is economically retarded too. the only reason i get oxy some times is because i'm guaranteed its going to be good. and when i'm dieing for a nice high, i cant trust getting shit dope.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

but anywho, the thing with the H is really annoying me. right now, i cant let myself IV. I just know that if i did that'd be it for me; i'd be back to where i was, a hopeless poor fucking addict with a way to get even higher. i'm thinking about plugging the next H i get. who knows.

It doesn't matter if you IV, if you snort or smoke heroin, it can be just as addictive as IVing. Dankaholic swears smoking H brought on worse WD's than IVing it, and I snorted heroin primarily and found that to be a lot more addictive than IVing it.

You're still using heroin...you may not be a "hopeless poor fucking addict"...but if you're still using you have a ways to go.

when it comes to suboxone i've been trying to get off for around a month now, casually trying here and there. i work my way down to 1 or 2 mg and give it up, only to make it like 4 or 5 days with terrible restless leg syndrome and deep depression then end up takin .5mg. bad cycle. i talked to my doc to see if i could get some 2mg pills to make the dividing a little easier. it's such a bitch to make an 8mg sub into 16 parts.

I think you need to stay on suboxone if you're using heroin.

Unless, did you want to go back to being an addict?

any tips or advice for any of these situations??

Crush up a 2mg section of the N8 and use a pill crusher and decimate the piece. Then, you can section out the powder into four piles to make 0.5mg each. If you want to section it out into 6 piles, you get one third of 1mg in each pile (0.333..mg).

 

[PinK~cloud]

what i meant about the iv thing was that i didnt want to create an addiction to the needle too. i know i would fall in love with the rush and everything would go down hill from there. heroin is heroin, i see what you're saying. it's just all those posts like, "when i iv'd for the first time, i created two addictions. an addiction to opiates and an addiction to the needle," that turn me off to it.

the whole suboxone debate for me is so hard. since march of being on suboxone i've taken two vacations to get high. the difference between before and after sub maintenance is that i can use but be able to tell myself no and to stop after a few times of use. i feel like i have a better control on things, but if the world is right, an addict can never truly control a 'once out of control addiction.' hope that makes sense. basically, i feel like i have a better control on things, but i'll never know until the time comes. in my opinion an addict has to learn through skills learned in things like in-patient and out-patient; one cannot rely on another drug to keep clean. i've yet to completely abstain from using, but i can see how sick and pathetic i was when i was balls deep in my habbit, and i hope to never let it get that out of control again.

and yeah i was thinking about crushing up an 8mg into a pile and dividing into 16 sections to take. i also talked to the doc and i'm getting some 2mg pills next week to make the process a little easier. thanks for the suggestion on dividing up 6 piles, that'd work great.

he offered some sort of benzo to make the withdrawal a little smoother, but trading one drug for another isn't positive.

 

[JaDiuM]

^^^ i thought you meant that you'd IVd in the past and didn't want to get back into that habit, in which case I'd say captain H is right and ROA doesn't matter so much... since you've never shot up, I'd say now of all times (if ever!) isn't the right time to start...

it also sounds like your bupe habit is bigger than your dope habit ever was... if you're not able to get high after days off the sub. i'd say you have quite a few more receptors to fill than you did before starting suboxone... In which case you're really in for it when you quit...

the advice about crushing / dividing the powder is good - consider making the alcohol/liquid form to get the most efficiency... if you're used to whole pieces under the tongue, more of the powder will probably get wasted - alcohol added would probably improve your absorption

i'd take him up on the benzos... if it's a short regimen to get off the bupe completely, it'll be a welcome relief to the insomnia/anxiety/leg stuff - some clonidine wouldn't hurt either

good luck - even though it sounds like you're wanting to be off bupe but still reserving the opportunity / experimenting with using oxys and H... maybe you're not ready to quit yet and should just think about tapering as slowly as possible but not quitting altogether

 

[PinK~cloud]

but i did get extremely high off of the oxy 80 70 hours in. i'm guessing the H was shit or something. it's strange, i don't know what went wrong. before i got on the subs, my main opiate of use was morphine. easiest to get at the time. i think my habit before is on par with my sub dose now of 2/4mg.

That clonidine is a great idea too. i 've heard that works wonders for some of the withdrawal symptoms.

and i see what you guys are saying about using while in suboxone Maint. i'm clearly not out of the loop yet. i see that but i don't know what to do. i have great control these days. since taking that 80 i havent thought about getting another and i have sources and money for just about anything.

one other issue is the price of suboxone. i have insurance but it doesn't cover it all. that shit is so expensive. i just think i'm wasting my time if i'm using on the side anyway. however, the subs do help me keep clean after i fulfill my cravings like recently and continue on with my life.

FML.

 

[JaDiuM]

^^^i'm not sure how the price of the sub is so expensive for you - i pay just under $6 per 8mg pill at costco (no insurance whatsoever) and since i'm taking 2 to 4mg a day, it's only 45 to 90 bucks a month (60 on average) - i could fuck that much off in a day on H no problem...

i've been on sub for nearly 5 years now... and it's losing its effects month by month - i'm starting to get the sniffles, sneezes & occasional cold / flu again... it was wonderful while it lasted... it gave me a really nice opiate buzz for the first 1 1/2 years... plus never feeling tired/yawning getting any kind of bugs, no sneezing, coughing etc... i'm wondering if i cut down to like 1/2 a mg for a while then back up to 2mg or so i'll start feeling a little better... it seems to not matter whether i take any more than 3mg or so though... anyone?

 

[PinK~cloud]

^^^
you havent given a higher dose a shot at all? you may not mentally feel the difference but you might feel it physically. give it a shot and see how it goes.

 

[JaDiuM]

pink cloud - i'm going to take 6mg today and see how it does me... of course I was reserving the opportunity to do a little cheating in the next few days, but this seems more practical & a better idea - especially if the higher dose relieves my cravings.... also, from my experience, even 6-8mgs is easily nullified by 1/2 - 3/4 grams of the tar I've been getting... makes me manic and blissful for about 18 hours... damnit - maybe i should take 8mg today and see if i can't get out of this mindset of cheating every 2 weeks or so....

who else here cheats from time to time, and how much sub to you take afterwards / how soon? i find it still takes 3 days of 6mgs or so (throughout the day) til the bupe is consistently in my system (as in only having to take it once in the morning)

 

[JaDiuM]

i'd hoped for a quicker response - time's a wastin - i tried my 6 mgs and still i'm not sure how much difference it's made....

hope to hear from someone on this subject soon

JDM

 

[Captain.Heroin]

who else here cheats from time to time, and how much sub to you take afterwards / how soon? i find it still takes 3 days of 6mgs or so (throughout the day) til the bupe is consistently in my system (as in only having to take it once in the morning)

I used to do this the first few months I was on buprenorphine, but after a while I found buprenorphine to be a lot more effective than heroin was. I do not desire to use heroin at all, I get a way better euphoric effect from buprenorphine, and I never feel dysphoric from it like I did heroin. Continued buprenorphine maintenance and tapering allowed me to utilize my endogenous endorphins.

I won't want to use heroin for a long time, if ever again.

i'd hoped for a quicker response - time's a wastin - i tried my 6 mgs and still i'm not sure how much difference it's made....

hope to hear from someone on this subject soon

JDM

I would suggest you try tapering down on suboxone. If you've been on it for a few years, you might want to use less. Personally, I've been on buprenorphine for around a year now, and I've tapered down to the point where I use around 1mg of buprenorphine a day. I get a lot more positive effect out of using lower doses.

On the other side, if you use too much buprenorphine, the buprenorphine itself starts to antagonize at the mu-opioid receptors. Also, the buprenorphine will spill into other brain receptors and will limit the amount of MAO neurotransmitters that are produced. This will lead one to feel agitated, and you're also more likely to get more of the negative side effects of buprenorphine at this dose. Also, with a high dose, the buprenorphine out-competes norbuprenorphine, leading to less effectiveness as a mu-opioid receptor agonist. With a low dose, more of the buprenorphine is metabolized into norbuprenorphine, and this yields a better mu-agonist effect overall.

However, if you're using heroin more frequently, you might be blowing your opiate tolerance up by using buprenorphine on the days you don't do heroin, while still spending enough days using it as well. So, when you go back to buprenorphine on the days you're not using heroin, you get less effectiveness out of a dose of buprenorphine.

If you want to use heroin instead of buprenorphine, I suggest you choose one or the other and stick to it. Using both isn't very effective IMO.

 

[JaDiuM]

damn - i thought i'd stated my case clearly enough - talking with those of you that seemed to be responding to my case............ thanks anyway - JaDiuM

 

[JaDiuM]

let's not spill the same old tired BS on this subject................ it's all been said b4 and you're the same old sadness speaking about such -------------- what it is is what is and in the future try to speak on something different

thanks again

SameOldBS

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What did you want to hear?

If you didn't like the advise you got, tell me what you were expecting to hear and I'll let you know.

I don't know if there's anything I can really tell you. If you're not satisfied with buprenorphine, and you don't want to taper down on it, and higher doses don't do it for you, well then maybe you should stop taking buprenorphine.