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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

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phrozen said:
^
I took bupe at methadone clinic 3 or so years ago. It cost around ~$1500 for 6 weeks of treatment; including bullshit group and one on one counseling, and a gradual 2 week taper at the end. They also didn't give any take home doses. The clinic didn't take any type of insurance, and the only financial help came from the state. Like you said, you'd have to apply for some sort of welfare insurance. That takes up to a month, usually more, and is based on your income. Both were disqualifying factors for me.

In hindsight, I probably would have gone to a doctor for treatment. At least one that didn't require me to go through the counseling; some do and some don't, there's aren't any guidelines for this. With a doctor, I could at least use insurance to help pay for the rx, I'd get them all at once, and I wouldn't have to deal with the general bullshit surrounding daily visits to a methadone clinic.
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I am sorry to hear that. I guess it depends on your state, and the particular clinic. A girl I knew at the clinic I attend was on Suboxone via the clinic, and they accepted her insurance for full payment. You are right about the waiting period, I had to wait 60 days for a response to my application for the states insurance program. Cost is relevant to the clinic as well. For profit clinics are all over the map. Do consider though that Suboxone has gone down in price across the board since you (and I) were on it 3+ years ago.

Here is a link to the Reckitt Benckiser patient assistance program. If you are accepted (and it has easier criteria than the state sponsored insurance), it offers one month of free Suboxone.

http://www.rxassist.org/pap-info/company_detail.cfm?CmpId=173

RECKITT BENCKISER
Patient Assistance Program
Patient assistance programs (PAPs) are programs created by drug companies, such as RECKITT BENCKISER, to offer free or low cost drugs to individuals who are unable to pay for their medication. These Programs may also be called indigent drug programs, charitable drug programs or medication assistance programs. Most of the best known and most prescribed drugs can be found in these programs. All of the major drug companies have patient assistance programs, although every company has different eligibility and application requirements.

The RECKITT BENCKISER patient assistance program offers free medication to people who otherwise cannot afford their medications. Patients must meet financial and other program specific criteria to be eligible for assistance.

To find out how to apply for medication assistance from the RECKITT BENCKISER patient assistance program, visit our Patient Center and use our Database to search for the medication needed.

For a complete listing of RECKITT BENCKISER medications available through their patient assistance programs, see below:

Suboxone Patient Assistance Program
The medications available through this program are:
Suboxone (buprenorphine hci)
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Suboxone Patient Assistance Program, a patient assistance program provided by Reckitt Benckiser, offers a month long supply of Suboxone at no cost to those who are eligible for the program. Eligibility is based off of the following requirements:

- You must not be covered by private or public health insurance.

- You must have an annual income less than or equal to: $25,000 for an individual, $34,500 for a family consisting of two members, and $43,000 for a family consisting of three members.

- You must be at least sixteen years of age.

The medication must be sent to the physicians office.

Those eligible for Medicare Part D but not enrolled may still be eligible.
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does anyone know if suboxone can go bad over time(ie; potency)? if they are sealed in a perscription bottle they should be good for a while correct?
 
^yes for a good while. unless they are sitting in the sun or in extreme heat, the potency should stay the same for many years i would say.
 
What is the point of Suboxone?

I considered starting a new thread for this topic, but I figured it would fit nicely into the Bupe/Sub Mega Thread. This is just something I've been pondering that I thought might spark some ideas/opinions:

I understand exactly what Suboxone is used for, and I, like many others, consider it to be a great asset to us all. So my question is to be taken at face value: What is the point to Suboxone? Buprenorphine with the addition of Naloxone, if the Naloxone is inactive via any ROA? And any precipitated withdrawl or other adverse effects induced upon a (tolerant) user would essentially always be due to the (Partial Agonist) Buprenorphine?

Now, I understand there is a lot of money to be made, and having two patents on what is fundamentally the same drug will only serve to double a company's profits, ie Reckitt Benckiser, but is this and the perceived benefit of having the presence of Naloxone as a scare tactic the only reason(s) why, in the US at least, Suboxone is highly favored over Subutex?

Also, I am aware that Subutex is favored by users due to it's ability to be IV'ed without the "Naloxone blocking the high," even though this is not the case that the Antagonist Naloxone even has a high enough affinity to overcome Bupe in the competition for receptors. So I ask again, why Suboxone and not just Subutex, or plain Buprenorphine, when they are effectively the same drug?

Mods- If you feel that is will dilute the goal of this particular thread, please do not hesitate move it as you see fit (though I can't recall seeing anything un-merged, so to speak;)
 
morphonorconic said:
I considered starting a new thread for this topic, but I figured it would fit nicely into the Bupe/Sub Mega Thread. This is just something I've been pondering that I thought might spark some ideas/opinions:

I understand exactly what Suboxone is used for, and I, like many others, consider it to be a great asset to us all. So my question is to be taken at face value: What is the point to Suboxone? Buprenorphine with the addition of Naloxone, if the Naloxone is inactive via any ROA? And any precipitated withdrawl or other adverse effects induced upon a (tolerant) user would essentially always be due to the (Partial Agonist) Buprenorphine?

Now, I understand there is a lot of money to be made, and having two patents on what is fundamentally the same drug will only serve to double a company's profits, ie Reckitt Benckiser, but is this and the perceived benefit of having the presence of Naloxone as a scare tactic the only reason(s) why, in the US at least, Suboxone is highly favored over Subutex?

Also, I am aware that Subutex is favored by users due to it's ability to be IV'ed without the "Naloxone blocking the high," even though this is not the case that the Antagonist Naloxone even has a high enough affinity to overcome Bupe in the competition for receptors. So I ask again, why Suboxone and not just Subutex, or plain Buprenorphine, when they are effectively the same drug?

Mods- If you feel that is will dilute the goal of this particular thread, please do not hesitate move it as you see fit (though I can't recall seeing anything un-merged, so to speak;)
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I think it was necessary to sell it to the American market. While it is true that Naloxone is only added as a scare tactic (admittedly by R-B's statement on the purpose of Naloxone). They are essentially gaining extra patent rights and extra money in the form of an identical drug with two brand names. However, Subutex is pretty rare in the US, and Suboxone is pretty rare in the rest of the world. So they aren't really gaining too terribly much; in fact they probably had to shell out a lot of money and do a lot of work to get it approved here in the US at all.

The history of Opiate Replacement Therapy in the US is awful. First we had Heroin/Morphine IV maintenance clinics; the politicians, prohibitionists and do-gooders jumped all over the one clinic that was a failure due to mismanagement: the NYC Morphine clinic. Then came the war on doctors: tens of thousands of doctors locked up for prescribing opioids to addicted patients.

It was a hell of a fight for Drs. Dole and Nyswander to win Methadone maintenance battles; which are still going on today. Suboxone was a huge concession to the, lets face it, religious nuts who form a huge contingent of the 'addiction treatment community'. These are people who would be happy to see an end to all Opiate Replacement Therapy/Maintenance programs, and installation of a prayer and Naltrexone only mandatory regimine for all addicts, those seeking and those not seeking treatment.

I made a couple threads about my brief contacts with R-B, NAABT and the Federal government over using IV Buprenorphine (Buprenex) as a maintenance drug in the US. There is a very easy way to get this into practice under the current legislation (DATA2000 and the Food, Drug & Cosmetic Safety Act). Everyone basically said the same thing: we tried back when Suboxone and Subutex were just being discussed, and the religious nuts and their pocket politicians would not budge on the issue. Basically, the message is we should be kissing their feet for letting us have sublingual Bupe and oral Methadone in limited circumstances.
 
Well, once again I find we are in agreement. Politics. Always Politics.:p

I have been keeping up with your posts, and have been finding it all quite interesting. Congrats on the Mod Status Tchort; keep up the good work.
 
Tchort said:
Everyone basically said the same thing: we tried back when Suboxone and Subutex were just being discussed, and the religious nuts and their pocket politicians would not budge on the issue. Basically, the message is we should be kissing their feet for letting us have sublingual Bupe and oral Methadone in limited circumstances.
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As long as the religious nuts think that IV suboxone won't get anyone high (though it most certainly does) their ignorance amuses me.
 
There is a rumor going around that spitting out the remaining suboxone after sublingual adminstration may reduce headaches associated with suboxone..(maybe because of nalaxone? idk)


Sometimes i get HORRID headaches from suboxone.. i take 1mg every 2 days
 
cire113 said:
There is a rumor going around that spitting out the remaining suboxone after sublingual adminstration may reduce headaches associated with suboxone..(maybe because of nalaxone? idk)


Sometimes i get HORRID headaches from suboxone.. i take 1mg every 2 days
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If I use it sublingually (with alcohol), I do spit out the remains. It's gross.
 
^^^ with alcohol just to increase the ba right?

i already take such a low dose and i have to break up 8mg pills its a pain to get an accurate 1mg seems the alcohol BA method would mean i would have to take less but would make accurate dosing very difficult?
 
cire113 said:
^^^ with alcohol just to increase the ba right?
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Yeah, it increases the bioavailability from 30% to 70%.

i already take such a low dose and i have to break up 8mg pills its a pain to get an accurate 1mg seems the alcohol BA method would mean i would have to take less but would make accurate dosing very difficult?
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I split 2mg into two 1mg piles often and usually pretty accurately. Get a pill crusher, crush up the 2mg, and pour out the contents on a flat surface (like a mirror). You can use razors to chop the powder pretty fine, and then you split it 50/50, and try to get it as accurately split as possible. I find this works pretty well.

I know what you mean though, because I use 0.5mg 3x a day, so I don't even go through a whole 2mg each day typically.
 
wd with suboxone, need help with dosage

hey there.. i have been on 30mg of oc everyday for about a month and a half. figured it was time to wd and I was seeing what would be a good starting dosage for a suboxone wd.. I have 2 8mg pills of sub.
 
Suboxone for cravings despite no physical addiction?

I am curious if suboxone can be prescribed to ex-addicts for their cravings to prevent a relapse, even if they have fully completed withdrawing? Is this practice uncommon, unheard of, or just plain illegal/impossible?

A good friend of mine kicked Heroin but because of some unforeseen life events is at risk for a relapse in a big way and we are all very worried about him. Is this something he should look into, because right now round two seems all but inevitable with the circumstances combined with PAWS.
 
theWorldWithin said:
I am curious if suboxone can be prescribed to ex-addicts for their cravings to prevent a relapse, even if they have fully completed withdrawing? Is this practice uncommon, unheard of, or just plain illegal/impossible?

A good friend of mine kicked Heroin but because of some unforeseen life events is at risk for a relapse in a big way and we are all very worried about him. Is this something he should look into, because right now round two seems all but inevitable with the circumstances combined with PAWS.
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That's a tough one :\
On the one hand, harm may be reduced in the long term if it keeps him hitting the rocks... there's worse things for you than having to take something like buprenorphine indefinitely.
On the other hand, it's highly probable once the opiate receptors are restimulated and that moderate high is felt in the first week(s) of starting bupe maintenance, it will awaken those semi-dormant addiction-mediated neural pathways... translation; once an opiate high is felt (any opiate high), it may throw him back to where he was before getting clean.

This is defnitely something a qualified doctor needs to evaluate. Naltrexone has been known to help in a small % of cases (me being one success), however, the last thing a depressed person needs is blockade of endogenous endorphins etc.

As I said, this needs professional medical evaluation (which I know isn't easy, as it's not you we need to convince).

Just keep in mind there's thing in this world you cannot change, and the wants and desires of others is one of those things. By all means, be a friend and do what you can, but understand some things are beyond your control.

Keep us posted
 
Yeah I think that is definitely good advice and pretty much what I was thinking as well, a doctor could probably judge this better. I guess my question was more along the lines of whether or not this is a common practice in the medical field or if he would be wasting what little money it appears he has left to be denied on account of a doctors liability concerns.

Also I am not entirely sure what the chances are that he would feel any high from a small dose of bupe this soon after a significant habbit, or it he would even need to in order for the craving to be triggered worse. On the other hand he has expressed major problems with them already so maybe it can't get much worse by going the bupe path, particularly when he expressed sincere interest in getting straight.
 
Buprenorphine would only be used for pain management or opiate dependency. There are other drugs that could prevent a relapse, like naltrexone, which wouldn't cause physical dependancy to opiates again.

It's all up to the doctor though.
 
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