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Tryptamines [Storage Subthread] Tryptamines

as far as 4aco dmt, ive had some in a vial at room temp for years without any loss in potency.

4 aco det ive also had for years in a vial. That one is more hydroscopic and has started to clump up, but last test done with it showed little if any loss in potency.

As for the other ones. I havent had them long enough to be able to tell. Last time i had 4 ho mipt it went rather quickly :). Ill see how my current sample holds up. same with iprocin.
 
Delsyd: interesting. So it's dry, in a glass vial? Any other precautions (airtight container w/ dessicant, etc.) or just in a drawer or something? And you've tried it personally and found it to be fully effective? Is this the fumarate salt or some other form?
 
ive had this particular batch since 06-07 and it is still as potent as the day i got it IME. Last time i tried it being a few months ago.
It is in a glass vial with a top that has a rubber stopper. The vial, along with the vials ofmy other RC's are inside a small alluminum box with dessicant in it.

My samples of iprocin and miprocin are in paper folds, in and altoid case with dessicant. I hope thats sufficient enough to keep them stable for long enough untill i feel the need to take them.

Perhaps i should move them over to some vials now that i think about it, but its only ~200mg sample of each.

edit: yes the fumurate salt, for each of those
 
So do you guys store both phenethylamines and tryptamines under the same circumstances?



I would also like to "bump" the question...

2)Can constant freezing/thawing/refreezing cause damage? (both phenthylamis/tryptamines)


Solipsis --> Those glass jars looks good. Do you know where I might find a store that will ship to europe. The only place I can find requires a minium order on $300.
 
So I'm in the process of collecting with the intent of long-term storage, and I want to run this idea across. After having gotten burned and ruined the last of my 4 HO MET by using a glass bottle without a proper seal in the freezer (water vapor condensed inside the bottle rather quickly and my powder turned to black goo), I am now paranoid about moisture intrusion.

Not convinced that amber bottles with a poly-seal will be enough, I plan on putting (very small) silica gel packets inside the bottle, which will be in direct contact with my various compounds. I tried to find vials with phenolic rubber lined caps for a better seal, but can only find entire cases for sale.

Anybody done this before? I can't imagine the gel packet would react with the chemical in any way, but I don't want to get burned again.
 
I'm aware that this figure can vary significantly, but can anyone tell me roughly how much volume is constituted by 1 gram of a crystalline tryptamine psychedelic? Note that I am NOT attempting to eyeball dosages; rather, I am trying to determine the correct size amber vials to order for long-term storage.

Obviously, the vial must be large enough to contain the entire sample, but an excessively large vial would also be a con, because that means all the more oxygen molecules are bouncing about in my vial, mingling with my tryptamines and having a grand old time.



sub-di said:
Not convinced that amber bottles with a poly-seal will be enough, I plan on putting (very small) silica gel packets inside the bottle, which will be in direct contact with my various compounds. I tried to find vials with phenolic rubber lined caps for a better seal, but can only find entire cases for sale.

Anybody done this before? I can't imagine the gel packet would react with the chemical in any way, but I don't want to get burned again.
Click to expand...

This seems like the best way to desiccate a crystalline tryptamine sample to me, but I really have no idea. Can anyone clarify whether or not this is an appropriate storage method, and if not, what a better alternative might be? It seems like your desiccant would have to be exposed to the same air that surrounds your tryptamine, so literally placing a gel packet in your storage vial sounds logical.
 
If anyone is interested, aMT degrades quite rapidly if left outside of a baggie / container for a few days. Sometimes by a lot, sometimes by less, heat and light must be a factor. It tends to stay perfect for at least a few weeks in room temperature in a dark place in a baggie / multiple baggies or pre-capped in a baggie. Maybe this will help someone, longest ever stored for was a month and it still worked fine but never saved any for longer.
 
Hey,

Have had my 5-meo-dmt for some months now. It has been bagged in and is in a jar at room temp. Don't think I am going to use it any time soon. Should I put it in the freezer? How long should it store for? What are some good storage methods?

It is the freebase, btw

Thanks
 
omicamushroom said:
Hey,

Have had my 5-meo-dmt for some months now. It has been bagged in and is in a jar at room temp. Don't think I am going to use it any time soon. Should I put it in the freezer? How long should it store for? What are some good storage methods?

It is the freebase, btw

Thanks
Click to expand...

5-MeO's are some of the more stable tryptamines. 5-MeO-DMT will not degrade noticeable in a few months at room temperature as long as it has been stored in a dark and dry place. 4-subbed tryptamines are much more susceptible to degradation and shouldn't be stored at room temperature for more than a few weeks.

If you plan on storing it longer, definitely buy a glass vial and store it in the freezer. If you keep it in the freezer, you can store it there without much worries for at least a few years.
 
Yeah, storing it in the freezer is probably my best bet. Maybe I'll keep a little in my room (temp), and throw the rest in the freezer.

How bout 5-meo-dipt. I assume it is the same. I have had my stash of that for almost 2 years. It has always been stored in a dark place, in multiple bags (small bag in fold and close in ziplock). The last time I ate it was a couple months ago, and I didn't notice any strong loss of potency. I dosed 12mg and it was quite strong... a month before that I dosed 6mg, and that was also effective... not as strong, but did make me want to lay around and feel good. I don't think it has really lost any potency. Maybe it is 95% or 90%...

How fast do they degrade? And what happens to them when they degrade? Do they just become less potent?
 
5-MeO-DiPT in my experience does degrade. I've had a baggy of foxy lying around for some years now (always stored in a dark place, in a ziplocked bag, at room temperature) and last time I tried it, it did nothing.

I do have some 5-MeO-DMT around still as well and I am fearing for its potency. Years and years ago 10 mg. would do the trick just nicely (nicely being a euphemism of course) but last time I tried it, 12 mg. did almost nothing. Maybe my scale was off, but hmmm... Before that, it had stayed good for several years as well.

One other thing I'm not getting is Psilocybe mushrooms. Some people tell me their dried shrooms stay potent for years, just storing 'em (super well dried) in a bag in a cupboard, but mine (both cubensis and cyanescens) can degrade to complete loss of potency within months sometimes. I have some semilanceata stored in exactly the same way that do still work... I really don't get why most of my mushrooms lose their potency so quickly, while this isn't the case for others. Any clues?
 
Interesting, snapinho. What is the appearance of the 5-MeO-DiPT you consider to be degraded?
I have not added my 5-MeO-DiPT to my desiccated/frozen storage unit, and the last time I checked it was still white as snow. Of course that is no guarantee and hardly an indication, but I am still curious.

About the mushrooms, a possible explanation is that there is a difference between dry, cracker dry and jive-ass cracker dry... depending on what drying technique was used. We can't pretend that we are able to detect minute traces of moisture that may in fact still help degradation via ionization. There are examples in chemistry how a small amount of substance can do a lot of damage (for an interesting example: if you place mercury on aluminum it forms an alloy, this process can "eat" right through because the mercury more or less dissolves in it).

(Also, are you the same snapinho that has the guy with the pipe that forms a purplish explosion cloud?)
 
I'll have to take a closer look at the 5-MeO-DiPT to be sure, but I think it has some greyish colour. It's definitely not white, but I doubt whether it was ever white in the first place.

What about 5-MeO-DMT though? I'll have to sample some to know for sure, but what are your experiences with storing it for yeeeaaars?

Re: mushrooms. I think that's probably the best explanation there is. That also means the best solution probably is to get some more desiccant and to wry these little bastards out as much as possible. Don't know why I hadn't thought of that myself, but that implies that moisture is just as much of a degrading agent as light doesn't it?

Regarding my nick, do you mean this guy in a different disguise? That just might be me... ;) Been a while since I visited BL regularly.
The-King-of-Sweden_fb_143095.jpg
 
It can be confusing to compare things that come in different units like moisture and light, but as far as generalizations go I think for tryptamines moisture is a bigger problem than light. Maybe for LSD it is the opposite considering it's excitation by ultraviolet light.
However exposure of 4-HO tryptamines to water often yields a goo that turns brown or black but it does not detract from potency at the same pace. A goo may render your tryptamine very difficult to measure but it does not destroy it acutely. It probably does destabilize it quite a bit though.

Up until now my experience with 5-MeO-DMT is not standard. I have basically only snorted it (often together with ketamine which is glorious, but I quit K) and my product was a rusty orange color to begin with. And it does not appear completely crystalline and dry but a bit oily/sticky. I cannot make any claims about potency or degradation. I think I stored it in a freezer with desiccant for a portion of the time but I was not consistent.

Coincidentally I have ordered new 5-MeO-DMT last week for the purpose of IM injection. The source is reliable but I just hope the product is as well. If I don't trust it I will have to recrystallize it.

Just looking at the structure, I think if 5-MeO-DiPT is prone to degradation then the same should go for 5-MeO-DMT. How stable is the analogous plain DMT though? It's N-oxide seems to form readily but generally I think it doesn't degrade that easily. Nevertheless I froze my synthetic DMT (also intended for IM use) because I don't hope to find any when I run out.
Perhaps these compounds have their own weakness. There is no 4-HO to worry about, which was always a reason for me to assume they should both /all be relatively fine.

Stupid me I haven't taken proper care of my synthetic 4-HO-DMT all the time, when I find out if it packs a punch I will let you guys know. I just might be lucky.
 
Snapinho said:
5-MeO-DiPT in my experience does degrade. I've had a baggy of foxy lying around for some years now (always stored in a dark place, in a ziplocked bag, at room temperature) and last time I tried it, it did nothing.
Click to expand...


Solipsis said:
It can be confusing to compare things that come in different units like moisture and light, but as far as generalizations go I think for tryptamines moisture is a bigger problem than light.
Click to expand...

(Edit: I think this may in regards to mushrooms... but I'll leave it here anyways)

So, given these quotes (which may not be universal truths), what are your thoughts on the storage of 5 meo mipt?

I have a little of both HCl and Fumurate, and currently store them in epindorph tubes in an air tight mason jar filled with rice. However, they are only stored at ambient temperature. Obviously storing them in the freezer would be better than at room temperature, but 1) is it necessary to keep 5 meo mipt (HCl/fumurate) in the freezer?

Also, 2) will the freezing and thawing process be damaging, when tryptamines are not in individual air tight containers (the epindorphs are not air tight, but the mason jar collecting them is)? Specifically, will this process cause damage due to the moisture contained in the air trapped inside each individual tube (the tubes are not big enough to put a dessicant inside; they are only 1.5 ml).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts :)
 
While temperature changes are generally best avoided, freezing and thawing does not harm chemicals like they do cells. Plant or mushroom matter can be tricky to freeze because in some cases the cells can burst, making a goo.
If 5-MeO-DiPT is not so stable (maybe the HCl and freebase aren't but the fumarate probably is) then I would be careful with 5-MeO-MiPT as well and stick it in the freezer if it was for a really long period.
The fumarate not so much, as long as you keep it away from all the other 'elements' besides heat (i.e. water, oxygen, light).

These are educated guesses, I do have experience with the substances but not all the salt forms of all these drugs.
 
Sorry, I wasnt trying to imply anything by " given these quotes (which may not be universal truths)...". I do appreciate your input. :)

Thus, would it be correct to assume that keeping said substance at freezer temperatures, with very rare temperature changes (to take out a dose.. every few months at the most) is better than keeping it at ambient temperature?
 
TBH, I thought you quoted Snapinho twice but chimed in anyway, now I see my mistake. Which changes nothing. (Also, I'm still not in any way offended).

Yes I would say that given the fact that you mention that taking out doses would be once every couple of months and thus the total time would be in the order of one or more years, the very low temperature would be preferable and would overrule the slight discomfort the chems suffer from the occasional extraction of the samples from the freezer.
 
What's more stable, 4-AcO or 4-HO of the same tryptamine in same conditions?
It makes sense to me that AcO would be more stable, in terms of actual potency/effect.
 
AcO tryptamines are more stable because the ester moiety protects the HO function from degradation either by a body's metabolism or by a combination of natural elements (ionization, oxygen, water, light), this principle is typical for drugs or more generally: chemicals. AcO groups are commonly applied to synthesized organic chemicals to protect reactions from happening at those positions, usually because a certain reaction is meant to happen on only one selected place without an AcO group. That is a normal strategy.

However HO tryptamines are more potent per milligram because the Ac(etoxy) part is 'dead weight'.
 
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