Sometimes, it is okay to narc

[Psychubus]

im srry from your personal experience you've had bad dealings and such, and cut shit. but there are respectable dealers with a certain 'code' you can call it. and are about quality not quantity and treat you like a customer at wal-mart.

Of course I have come across some of the best dealers as well, that promote nothing but good vibes and friendly atmosphere. They never lie about the quality of their product--if it is shitty, they will admit it's shitty, but give you a deal on it. I hold nothing but the highest regard for honest businessmen and women like these.

 

[Psychubus]

I have never had a dealer tell me of possible side effects and body chemistry and any possible bad effects from a particular drug. I make this my business as a drug user to learn this information. I don't rely on a delaer to tell me this information, and neither should anyone else. A drug dealer's job is not Harm Minimization, by a long shot. Their one and only job is to sell drugs to people that want to buy drugs. Plain and simple. Drug Dealers aren't Erowid or Bluelight, that's why erowid and Bluelight exist. Should a Dealer hand you a FAQ with every bag of substance X? I don't want that from a dealer and I don't think most people do. I want to hand them the money and I want them to hand me drugs. That's about the extent of the relationship. If I am disattisfied with the product, I don't go back. End of story.

Yes, ideally if drugs WERE legal, there WOULD be a FAQ and ingredients list and warning label for ALL drugs, now wouldn't there?

Customers for any product (whether legal or not) should be rightfully presented with the information. How can you tell people to exercise personal responsibility if you cannot provide them with such? What, you just give a newbie a gram of heroin and say see ya, hope you stay alive to make it back a 2nd time?

I honestly do believe in making a change in society. Though this may be seen as frivolous by people like lacey k, the catch 22 is that it is unmotivated people like these who perpetuate the never-ending cycle.

I would one day like to see drugs legal. But the way things are going now, this is not feasible. I think that if we were to implement this idea, it would be the first step towards real progress.

 

[topekoms18]

OP, if you want every dealer to be as paranoid as most meth cooks, then by all means rat to your hearts content, you are going to end up with purely shady people filling the wholes, not just chris the partime e dealer college kid, who sold a few bum rolls to cover tuition. while i agree people like that are dirt bags. thing about the root of the issue, chris didnt press the pills or cut the fentnyl, to stomp out these people you need to stomp the source, and thats not going to come about from goodie two shoes pissants ratting on low level dealers. no way no how, for that to happen you'd have to have people moving weight ratting on their suppliers, and thats not going to happen. ergo, the pma, and strychnine(lmao) are still going to hit the street. as long as there are people doing drugs there will be people trying to make money off them with no care for their safety.
you want that to change, set up a lab in your basement, and flood the market with extremely cheap pills. start a network of underground chemists devoted to harm reduction and take on the scumbags.

 

[Psychubus]

OP, if you want every dealer to be as paranoid as most meth cooks, then by all means rat to your hearts content, you are going to end up with purely shady people filling the wholes, not just chris the partime e dealer college kid, who sold a few bum rolls to cover tuition. while i agree people like that are dirt bags. thing about the root of the issue, chris didnt press the pills or cut the fentnyl, to stomp out these people you need to stomp the source, and thats not going to come about from goodie two shoes pissants ratting on low level dealers. no way no how, for that to happen you'd have to have people moving weight ratting on their suppliers, and thats not going to happen. ergo, the pma, and strychnine(lmao) are still going to hit the street. as long as there are people doing drugs there will be people trying to make money off them with no care for their safety.
you want that to change, set up a lab in your basement, and flood the market with extremely cheap pills. start a network of underground chemists devoted to harm reduction and take on the scumbags.

Dude, think about what you just said.

Why would a dealer have to be paranoid as long as he is being upfront and honest with his customers?

edit: You are also missing the point. The goal is NOT to stop the source of the drug trade itself. The goal is to take out the THIEVES and CRIMINALS in an already criminal environment.

 

[OwnerofU]

Take the football position and ram your head into a brick wall. Its never ok to rat. Ever. Your stupid choice, so be a man and deal with it.

 

[OwnerofU]

I'm sorry, but people like these only harm the drug scene more than ANYTHING.

Actually, its people who snitch who harm the drug scene more then anyone. If you dont trust a dealer dont use him. If it bothers you that damn much stop using drugs.

 

[Psychubus]

Why don't some of you guys let go of your empty presuppositions and start thinking about what is really at stake for society?

Is bluelight really full of mindless idiot junkies or intellectual drug users? Which is it?

 

[Abraxus]

I would never argue against drug legalization or decriminalization, but that isn't the issue here. We need to deal with how it is right now.

If someone sells a newbie a gram of heroin and the newbie OD's, that's sad. Even though it's sad, it's not the dealer's fault for not advising proper dosage, IV tecnique, etc. It's the USER's responsibility.

I don;t want to flame you because you're kind of taking on the whole forum here, and I at least respect you for voicing your opinion, but I think you need to look at the reality of the situation. Drug Deals are not like sitting down with a car dealer and going over all of the optional equipment, safety features, pricing, etc. It's generally a very fast transaction for many reasons. How is the dealer supposed to know if you are a newbie or not? What your tolerance is? I mean really. Try to remain in reality. People should know the risks involved when they decide to purchase and use illegal drugs. There are many risks associated with this kind of behavior, many of which are in fact a direct result of the war on drugs, but the point is that is the risk you take when using street drugs, period.

Drug dealers are just that, drug dealers. When you buy a bottle of liquor or a pack of cigarrettes, it's not the clerk's responsibility to remind you not to drive, or not to drink the whole 5th of Whiskey, or not to drive when intoxicated. You're just supposed to know. And don't give me that warning label stuff, because the risks of these types of legal products go far beyond what is on the tiny warning label. In the end, it is the user's responsibility, and no one else's.

 

[Khadijah]

DRUGS is not a community. it aint about "preserving our community" cuz honestly, straight up, it AINT YOUR COMMUNITY.

Thats like people who try and close other people out of their "scene" cuz the "newbs" are "ruining the scene."

Its open to everyone, so accept that instead of tryin to impose your rules on other people.

ITS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A DRUG USER TO KNOW WHAT YOURE DOING.

AND it AINT your responsibility as a drug user to NARC OUT people that YOU FEEL aint "doing it right."

youre playing the avenger for shit that aint even about you.

why do people think they matter THAT much? that its UP to them to "change" or "fix" shit in the already twisted, fucked up, impossible world of drugs?

You know the rules when you choose to play. you know what youre doing when you choose to do it.

You do your thing, THEY do THEIRS. what is so hard to undersatnd about that?

All the points you attempt to make will still not change the fact that what you are proposing makes no sense and is counterproductive. if youre IN, youre fuckin IN, and accept what it means to be in.

youre like the new kid on the block who just HAS to get cool with the other kids and then as soon as youre down, you go runnin to your friends mama to tell on him when he cheats at basketball.

I AINT passionate about harm reduction or creating a safer drug community with legalization for all, why, because drugs aint my life and drugs aint a world that will ever be safe or fool proof.

IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN ANYTIME in ANY of our lifetimes in the US.

The world of drugs AINT a happy place, and thats just the way it is. you cant make it different, and you definately aint gonna make it any better by 'selective narc'ing".

Why does everything gotta be nice good and happy? You know the drug world is dirty but you still chose to enter it so accept that instead of tryina change the rules. you dont make the rules here. theyre already set, your choices are follow them or get out, not "make the drug world a better place YAAAAAAAAY flowers suns smilies and hearts."

 

[Psychubus]

I would never argue against drug legalization or decriminalization, but that isn't the issue here. We need to deal with how it is right now.

If someone sells a newbie a gram of heroin and the newbie OD's, that's sad. Even though it's sad, it's not the dealer's fault for not advising proper dosage, IV tecnique, etc. It's the USER's responsibility.

I don;t want to flame you because you're kind of taking on the whole forum here, and I at least respect you for voicing your opinion, but I think you need to look at the reality of the situation. Drug Deals are not like sitting down with a car dealer and going over all of the optional equipment, safety features, pricing, etc. It's generally a very fast transaction for many reasons. How is the dealer supposed to know if you are a newbie or not? What your tolerance is? I mean really. Try to remain in reality. People should know the risks involved when they decide to purchase and use illegal drugs. There are many risks associated with this kind of behavior, many of which are in fact a direct result of the war on drugs, but the point is that is the risk you take when using street drugs, period.

Drug dealers are just that, drug dealers. When you buy a bottle of liquor or a pack of cigarrettes, it's not the clerk's responsibility to remind you not to drive, or not to drink the whole 5th of Whiskey, or not to drive when intoxicated. You're just supposed to know. And don't give me that warning label stuff, because the risks of these types of legal products go far beyond what is on the tiny warning label. In the end, it is the user's responsibility, and no one else's.

The clerk does not make it his personal responsibility because we are constantly being bombarded and informed about the dangers of alcohol and cigarrettes all around us. News articles, scientific studies, in the media. On the other hand, I have read about how research chemicals are sold in Japan and China, and the vendors STRONGLY take personal responsibility in the safety of their clients--if they do not, their items would quickly become illegal and attract negative attention to the drugs.

I also think you are also misinterpreting my argument. I am not saying that the dealer should go into a full blown lecture and start interrogating anybody who wants to make a measly purchase. But I also do not think he should be untruthful about the product or try and be a cheat.

It's a so much better way of harm reduction. Don't you think that if everybody STARTED exercising drug use/dealing in this manner, and if it caught on, that the outcome would be less deaths and hospital trips? Change has to start from somewhere.

and flames are lame anyway, who has time to nitpick over another persons shortcomings?

 

[Abraxus]

The problem is that it's never going to happen, and ratting people out certainly will not make it any better. I think a drug dealer who misrepresents his product is a piece of shit. The only thing lower than someone like that is a rat.

The example you cited about asian RC dealers is a different situation entirely. The drug dealers in the US are selling something that is already illegal.

I'm all for responsible drug use, but I'm not in favor of shifting the responsibility away from the user.

I also think that people in the US are barraged with the dangers of drug use on a daily basis. The dangers of illegal drugs are OVERstated in my opinion and the dangers of alcohol, tobacco, and fast food are UNDERstated.

Bottom line, I don't see how ratting someone out will improve ANYTHING at all. I gree with Lacey K in that Drug Users are not a community and there's no way to affect this kind of change. You just have to deal with the facts of life. We are all part different communities who just happen to use drugs.

Basically it all comes down to personal responsibility. If you use drugs, you need to now the risks involved and do what you need to do in order to keep yourself safe. It's no one else's job but your own and ratting people out isn't going to help anything.

 

[Psychubus]

DRUGS is not a community. it aint about "preserving our community" cuz honestly, straight up, it AINT YOUR COMMUNITY.

Of course it's my community. It's every bit your community as it is mine. IT'S OUR COMMUNITY!!!

You sound just like the people who say "If you dont like how it is in this country then get out." But where do you suppose revolution begins? Society is changing all the time, an effect of KARMA you see. :D

Thats like people who try and close other people out of their "scene" cuz the "newbs" are "ruining the scene."

I don't see the correlation.

ITS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A DRUG USER TO KNOW WHAT YOURE DOING.

And who's arguing that? I as a drug user have taken great lengths to study and acquire information on all sorts of entheogens.

AND it AINT your responsibility as a drug user to NARC OUT people that YOU FEEL aint "doing it right."

What are you saying, that we leave it all up to the cops? You want to continue letting the fucking PIGS run this shit the same way they have these past decades? That's your answer?!?!

youre playing the avenger for shit that aint even about you.

Of course it's about me. It's about me every bit as much as it's about you. What makes you keep thinking otherwise?

why do people think they matter THAT much? that its UP to them to "change" or "fix" shit in the already twisted, fucked up, impossible world of drugs?

You know the rules when you choose to play. you know what youre doing when you choose to do it.

I try to live by example by doing what I feel is right, and hope that others follow. Unfortunately, because there are many that will continue to take advatage of other people and feed on the unfortunate events of others, this is an acceptable alternative.

You do your thing, THEY do THEIRS. what is so hard to undersatnd about that?

Nothing. I AM doing my thing, while they ARE doing theirs.

All the points you attempt to make will still not change the fact that what you are proposing makes no sense and is counterproductive. if youre IN, youre fuckin IN, and accept what it means to be in.

Show me how it is counterproductive. All you have done is post ad hominems, strawman arguments, and throw an immature tantrum, only repeating that its WRONG, that its DUMB--yet where is your reasoning behind this?

youre like the new kid on the block who just HAS to get cool with the other kids and then as soon as youre down, you go runnin to your friends mama to tell on him when he cheats at basketball.

LOL. quoted for emphasis.

I AINT passionate about harm reduction or creating a safer drug community with legalization for all, why, because drugs aint my life and drugs aint a world that will ever be safe or fool proof.

IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN ANYTIME in ANY of our lifetimes in the US.

The world of drugs AINT a happy place, and thats just the way it is. you cant make it different, and you definately aint gonna make it any better by 'selective narc'ing".

Why does everything gotta be nice good and happy? You know the drug world is dirty but you still chose to enter it so accept that instead of tryina change the rules. you dont make the rules here. theyre already set, your choices are follow them or get out, not "make the drug world a better place YAAAAAAAAY flowers suns smilies and hearts."

I am not asking you to be passionate about drug legalization. If you aren't, then great, you fucking aren't, so quit arguing about it then. Nobody asked you to do anything you don't want to do.

If you are not working to progress human society into a certain direction, then what the fuck are you living for? For money, for a husband, ohhhh what MEANING your life will have...

 

[Khadijah]

What are you saying, that we leave it all up to the cops? You want to continue letting the fucking PIGS run this shit the same way they have these past decades? That's your answer?!?!

YOURE the one leaving it up to the cops by NARCING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Psychubus]

YOURE the one leaving it up to the cops by NARCING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually I'm not, and this post itself proves how little you have studied up on law enforcement itself. By being passive, you are only giving them the right to exercise more power and place more restrictions on your own freedom. Simply because you work with the cops with the goal of keeping a better drug scene does not mean you are "leaving it up to the cops." In fact, it is quite the opposite.

Be more politically active, this country needs it.

edit: Okay, think about it. YOU ARE WEEDING OUT PEOPLE THAT YOU KNOW TO BE A DETRIMENT AND CAUSE OF HARM. THEY ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE BACKWARDS PROGRESS OF DRUG LEGALIZATION, AND PROMOTE NEGATIVE VIEWS ON DRUG USAGE. I can't seem to find any good argument against this, aside from "its not gonna happen." Again...catch 22...hopeless...

 

[chemicalEactive]

Are you fucking kidding me?

I've never snitched on anyone though and don't think I ever will.

Okay...so then what is the point of your thread? Either the above quote is complete bullshit, OR you're trying to convince other people to snitch because you obviously got burned and are too big of a pussy to do it yourself.

Lastly (a bit of a rant, sorry), dealers of all people shouldn't have inflated egos. They are salespeople and should treat their work like a business, and their customer's safety should be the number one priority.

What?...I don't know you personally, but I will say, based on my own experiences over and over again... The "dealers" that I have come across in the 15+ years that I have been "chemically active" (a) Don't have inflated egos, (b) handle their business in a professional manner, and (c) treat me with the utmost respect. As far as safety is concerned...well, that would be a given.

You obviously have this perspective because you are not understanding your role in the relationship between you and your "dealer." It sounds like your ego is the one that's inflated. For me (and every other well respected user/dealer out there), there is a relationship that is developed over time...one of trust and mutual respect. This relationship OFTEN turns into a friendship...or simulates a friendship in the very least. Because of my understanding of this relationship, I have always come across the best hook-ups in anytown I have every lived in OR visited, for that matter, within a very short time...possibly hours...lol. I suspect that you, on the other hand, wouldn't have such "luck."

Sound like you're pissed because you're too uncool for most dealers to deal with you; therefore, you get stuck having to deal with the bottom feeders. My suggestion, put your ego down...and just be cool. And for the record: you can't be a narc and be cool at the same time.

The viewpoint that "its OK to narc if someone is a bad dealer" is the most retarded shit i heard all day.

Tell me about it.

 

[Psychubus]

Yes chemicaleactive, it's all stems down to the fact that I am uncool and I just can't stand it. 8)


Seems to me that the immaturity level on bluelight is quite high for a site that is linked on erowid. Aside from the few posters who have actually thought out their responses, I really would have expected a more intellectual crowd from this site.

With that, I'm off to bed.

 

[Ghettotastic_bong]

One can give moralistic rants on either side of the issue, however, the purpose of law and order in our society is to provide safety to the people. When this situation is violated, perhaps it is our civic duity to act upon it.

 

[zephyr]

The truth is, because drugs are illegal, our products will often be unclean and impure. This is due to people who cut their products, or outright lie about a drug's quality or even the product itself, just to make a few measly dollars. And those who rip off other people unknowingly to the person's consent are just worthless scum. They should therefore be rid of for a safer drug environment.

NEWS FLASH! Police arent there to get you better drugs- if you buy shitty gear off some cook who hasnt made it correctly then too bad for you, thats the risk you take. Its not as if it comes with a money back guarantee! Everyone knows how drugs are made, you cant get the perfect ingredients every time

Everyone gets ripped off every now and then and are wise enough to either
a) take it on the chin and accept not every batch will come out perfect
b) realise the fucker had ripped you off and go elsewhere

but never ever do you go crying to the police about getting a shitty deal! Would you really want to be known as a snitch? What will your chances of getting other drugs be later on when the dude tells his associates?

Ridiculous. This is retarded. It is NEVER ok to narc, NEVER.

 

[socko]

Psychobus has put obviously put a lot of thought into his posts. Overall, I think narcing is a bad thing, but if drugs were legalized (which they hsould be), there would be no more narcing. I agree with the gist of what Psychu is saying.
If a person or gang is a menace to the community, they should be dealt with, not ignored because narcing is bad. IMO, this indifference to crime (and unwillingness of the citizenry to try to stop it) is part of the probelme with so many of america's blighted inner city neighborhoods.
I "narced" on somebody last year. He was violent and attacked me and my gf. He was obviously under the influece of sthing, so I called the police , gave his description, his plates number, and said he attacked us and appeared to be on drugs. So there.

 

[Abraxus]

Psychobus has put obviously put a lot of thought into his posts. Overall, I think narcing is a bad thing, but if drugs were legalized (which they hsould be), there would be no more narcing. I agree with the gist of what Psychu is saying.
If a person or gang is a menace to the community, they should be dealt with, not ignored because narcing is bad. IMO, this indifference to crime (and unwillingness of the citizenry to try to stop it) is part of the probelme with so many of america's blighted inner city neighborhoods.
I "narced" on somebody last year. He was violent and threatened me and my gf. He was obviously under the influece of sthing, so I called the police , gave his description, his plates number, and said he appeared to be on drugs.

That sounbds like a different situation. You were calling the police because some fucked up person was threatening you. Whether he was under the influence of drugs or not, has no bearing on the fact that you were asaulted. That's not exactly narcing in my book. That's reporting an assault against you. A little different than narcing on a dealer because your bag was light, or the shit was cut to hell or something like that.