Nevr_Mined
Bluelighter
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'Satty'!!! Thats the small container my Satin 7 tampons come in. Its a great all purpose carry all, seals tight, screw top, no little accidents either way.:D
Sniffer Dogs at upcoming rave
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eggman
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dabb said:
Depends upon the event you where at. A ex-school buddy now works as a freeway pursuit officer and he was telling me recently that a lot of the time police just have labradors that are trained to sniff out explosive material. These events are generally sporting in nature or large entertainment events, basically the type of events that would cause mass outrage if some clown detonated an explosive devise amongst the crowd.
Friend also added that the labradors can detect cannabis because it's odour is generally so strong the police can even detect it with thier own nose. He finally stated that the police use beagles for drug detection purposes. Maybe the poster earlier in this thread who is an actual trainer can clarify this.
Beagle
Labrador
Hater said:
i've never seen any dogs at events so what breeds do they usually use then? German Shepards? I'd hate to see one of them at an event. Shepards scare the shit out of me anyway, so i'd start acting nervous whether i had anything on me or not! I'd get picked up no problem.
eggman
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^ Dude, read the post two above yours, it even has pictures 
Shephards are generally just used for what they call 'control presence', they are just there as a visual thing so people behave cos they know it likely they may become seperated from their gonads or buttocks!
Shephards are generally just used for what they call 'control presence', they are just there as a visual thing so people behave cos they know it likely they may become seperated from their gonads or buttocks!
bikki_muncher69
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I have an idea, say if you had a couple of pills could you possibly put them in a chewed up peice of hubba bubba chewing gun then stick that inside your mouth and not chew? then if your asked just swollow the gum but if your not then you would have 2 pills that would still be in better condition and its a hell of alot better than sticking them up your ass. Do you think this idea would work at deceiving dogs? and nothing would look too out of the ordianary as every raver has their gum and lollypop:D
Pleonastic
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Yep, swallowing plastic bags. The real good advice is never too far away...
Ok guys,
I'm getting there with my response ok.... I should be able to finish it in a day or two.... I'm trying to make it as good as possible. Life has been rather hetic of late... I haven't forgotten this thread though!!!!
To clarify a couple of points right now though......
Cannabis, yes it does smell strong, it would be far easier to detect than say a bicckie.... no doubt there...
In regards to the type of breeds they use then it basically comes down to a few different types. Labradors, Beagles, German Shepards are the most popular and even a few staffie's. From a bomb dog perspective I know of a number of cocker spaniels that are also being used.
You have to realise that the dog they use is for a specfic reason. Putting it simply, some dogs smell better than others. The best indication of this is the size of the dog's nose. The longer the nose, the better it is equipped to smell. You'd never for example see a pug doing scent detection work. They have no hope! Beagles however are truly awesome. From an obedience view, they're an absolute bugger to train, they always want to put their noses to the ground. Great for scent dectection though....
As said, I've got some time now.... and i'll be able to finish the article!
Cheers!
Eclipse.
Last edited:
To answer some of your questions quickly here we go....
1. can all dogs sniff most illegal substances or are they specialized towards a particular area eg stimulants
Answer: Dog's are trained on a particular 'target'. The process is called targeting (which i'll explain in my up coming article). Basically without going into to much detail now, we utilise a process called operant conditioning to teach a dog on what we want him to do.
"Operant conditioning forms an association between a behavior and a consequence. (It is also called response-stimulus or RS conditioning because it forms an association between the animal's response [behavior] and the stimulus that follows [consequence]) " <text-book answer>
What that basically means is that by marking a behaviour, that is the dog has done something that we want. We immediately reward him (either with food or a game). In this case, the target is the stimulant. If we do it enough and we utilise Positive Reinforcement (R+) techniques then the dog will remember and keep trying to 'find' that thing that gives him pleasure.
Ok..ok, enough for now.............. I'll get back to the tech stuff later on.
To answer your question simply, only certain types of breeds of dogs are appropriate for the level of accuracy that the situation requires.
2. will coffee fool a dogs nose if it is encasing the drug?
Ok guys, you have to understand that I'm a dog trainer and not a narcotic dog trainer but here's my answer.... The simple answer is no, but it depends. There is a thing called soak time and it depends on how good the dog is.... If you've put your stuff in coffee and left it there for quite some time, then eventually the smell (molecules) will get through. An example of this is when someone puts drugs into say a 3 lt block of ice (and kept frozen). After about 5-8 hours the smell (chemicals) will eventually seap through the ice and be able to be detected by the dog.
Another example of this is when training cadavaer dogs. Some dogs have been trained to detect dead bodies submerged in water. Again the bodies decay and skin cells float to the surface and the dog detects.
3. how long does it take to train a dog to a particular scent
Answer: Depends on how good the dog is, but more importantly how good the handler is....... When training your timing of marking the behaviour has to be spot on.. More about this later. But on average were talking anything from a month to many......
4. iv had a sniffer dog sniff me while i had a moderate amount of strong smelling marijuana on me i dodged it and it jumped on the person next to me was it because
A. the person next to me had a stronger substance or a stronger smelling substance or...
B. dogs r not as smart as humans and can be easily tricked no matter how well trained
Answer: I don't know. This is hard one, the fact that you dodged may have meant that the dog in question never got a chance to smell you. Point B: Dogs don't have the ability to reason, most of their reactions are instinctive in nature and move through a mental state of (picture a triangle) of pack ---> prey ---> defence. Animals most purley react to their environment. The answer may be in this case you tricked the handler and not the dog!
5. what smell will make a dog not want to smell you thouroughly
Good question, again depends on the handler. You have to realise, that these dogs 'LOVE' what they do, to them from the dogs perspective it's just one big game, the hunt and the find! There's a saying in the dog training world. 'Your dog must always have a win'.
However if a dog came into direct contact (ie their nose) with say something like, bleach or petrol that would not be good for the dog. It would basically give them headaches and they really wouldn't be that interested in working.
6. which breed is the most efficient
Answer: Read question 1!
7. how do u train a dog to go after particular scents (i dont really believe they are addicted to drugs themselves)
Read a little of question 1, but again more coming later. They are definately not addicted to drugs, much care is taken that the dogs do NOT ingest the target that they are seeking.
please take your time to answer these im sure alot of people would be interested in the answers and thankyou for your insight into the world of sniffer dogs
I hope the answers received so far have been satisfactory...... as said, more to come!
Cheers!
Hater said:
1. can all dogs sniff most illegal substances or are they specialized towards a particular area eg stimulants
Answer: Dog's are trained on a particular 'target'. The process is called targeting (which i'll explain in my up coming article). Basically without going into to much detail now, we utilise a process called operant conditioning to teach a dog on what we want him to do.
"Operant conditioning forms an association between a behavior and a consequence. (It is also called response-stimulus or RS conditioning because it forms an association between the animal's response [behavior] and the stimulus that follows [consequence]) " <text-book answer>
What that basically means is that by marking a behaviour, that is the dog has done something that we want. We immediately reward him (either with food or a game). In this case, the target is the stimulant. If we do it enough and we utilise Positive Reinforcement (R+) techniques then the dog will remember and keep trying to 'find' that thing that gives him pleasure.
Ok..ok, enough for now.............. I'll get back to the tech stuff later on.
To answer your question simply, only certain types of breeds of dogs are appropriate for the level of accuracy that the situation requires.
2. will coffee fool a dogs nose if it is encasing the drug?
Ok guys, you have to understand that I'm a dog trainer and not a narcotic dog trainer but here's my answer.... The simple answer is no, but it depends. There is a thing called soak time and it depends on how good the dog is.... If you've put your stuff in coffee and left it there for quite some time, then eventually the smell (molecules) will get through. An example of this is when someone puts drugs into say a 3 lt block of ice (and kept frozen). After about 5-8 hours the smell (chemicals) will eventually seap through the ice and be able to be detected by the dog.
Another example of this is when training cadavaer dogs. Some dogs have been trained to detect dead bodies submerged in water. Again the bodies decay and skin cells float to the surface and the dog detects.
3. how long does it take to train a dog to a particular scent
Answer: Depends on how good the dog is, but more importantly how good the handler is....... When training your timing of marking the behaviour has to be spot on.. More about this later. But on average were talking anything from a month to many......
4. iv had a sniffer dog sniff me while i had a moderate amount of strong smelling marijuana on me i dodged it and it jumped on the person next to me was it because
A. the person next to me had a stronger substance or a stronger smelling substance or...
B. dogs r not as smart as humans and can be easily tricked no matter how well trained
Answer: I don't know. This is hard one, the fact that you dodged may have meant that the dog in question never got a chance to smell you. Point B: Dogs don't have the ability to reason, most of their reactions are instinctive in nature and move through a mental state of (picture a triangle) of pack ---> prey ---> defence. Animals most purley react to their environment. The answer may be in this case you tricked the handler and not the dog!
5. what smell will make a dog not want to smell you thouroughly
Good question, again depends on the handler. You have to realise, that these dogs 'LOVE' what they do, to them from the dogs perspective it's just one big game, the hunt and the find! There's a saying in the dog training world. 'Your dog must always have a win'.
However if a dog came into direct contact (ie their nose) with say something like, bleach or petrol that would not be good for the dog. It would basically give them headaches and they really wouldn't be that interested in working.
6. which breed is the most efficient
Answer: Read question 1!
7. how do u train a dog to go after particular scents (i dont really believe they are addicted to drugs themselves)
Read a little of question 1, but again more coming later. They are definately not addicted to drugs, much care is taken that the dogs do NOT ingest the target that they are seeking.
please take your time to answer these im sure alot of people would be interested in the answers and thankyou for your insight into the world of sniffer dogs
I hope the answers received so far have been satisfactory...... as said, more to come!
Cheers!
Last edited:
rogan
Bluelighter
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- Aug 18, 2005
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- 618
A bit off topic, but do many of the larger events allow pass outs? if they do simple, take drugs before you enter away from dogs and when you feel your ready to redose get a pass out and head back to the car to top up.
Although I'd be very frustrated to be peaking while standing in queue or worse being refused entry for being too fucked.
Although I'd be very frustrated to be peaking while standing in queue or worse being refused entry for being too fucked.
rogan said:
Without going into any details........ expect pass-outs on the night !!!!!
My mate and myself have thought of doing exactly the same kind of thing, However I don't relish the idea of being locked out! One way to get around that is (it might work) is to put something into a cloak room, they must just let ya pass!!
I must admit its darn hard trying to 'act' normal when your fucked... Sometimes it just doesn't work! Which brings up the question, can dogs detect drugs in your system (bloodstream). My answer to that is yes... I remember hearing of a report at the start of the year that a number of dogs detected people with no gear on them, but had taken them. They were let go.....
Don't even think about driving!!!!
Hater said:
I'll take the first part of the sentance as a compliment. Thanks!!!
Imagine how it feels for me !!!!! I love training dogs (not my full-time job) and here I am stuck in the middle.... I fricking hate dogs being at these events! The majority of people go out have a good time and have a bit of fun! Ever since a certain event when 12+ people od' on G, the dogs have come onto the scene... A pain in the royal arse I must say!
All I'm trying to do is educate people in regards to the capabilities of the dogs. I have no secret answer which states, "if you do this and this they you'll get past the dogs.: I'm really sorry, I wish I did!
As said previously, I'll finish my little article for bluelight and when the event comes around I'll run the gauntlet like everyone else!!! Just don't expect that going with the ya bicckies in your jocks in a single plastic bag that you're going to get past the dog. No chance there. Someone mentioned look confident, it's got nothing to do with it!
If we're lucky maybe the dogs will be sick or just having an off day!
I'll talk more later!
Cya.
Eclipse.
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
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Thanks for the informative posts eclipse
rogan
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- Aug 18, 2005
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Some great info there eclipse
I guess something that I have been forced to accept is there are no loopholes, any magic loopholes that we find and post on a public forum will be closed quickly.
We simply have to look at it from a statistical point of view, imagine yourself carrying drugs with all these little 'smell' particles floating away from you in all directions, the dog only has to smell one of these little particles and your screwed.
So if you minimise the amount of particles, you have a lower chance of being caught. So just take some basic steps, for one minimise handling of the drugs, bag them up and dont touch them again, have a shower and perhaps even re-bag them just before you get to the dogs (the soak time wont be long - but it may be just enough). I'm sure others can think of little things that you can do if your really paranoid.
Also, get creative with your hiding spots...I've got one that I've never seen posted before, it wont hold too many drugs but enough for a little guy like myself.
I guess something that I have been forced to accept is there are no loopholes, any magic loopholes that we find and post on a public forum will be closed quickly.
We simply have to look at it from a statistical point of view, imagine yourself carrying drugs with all these little 'smell' particles floating away from you in all directions, the dog only has to smell one of these little particles and your screwed.
So if you minimise the amount of particles, you have a lower chance of being caught. So just take some basic steps, for one minimise handling of the drugs, bag them up and dont touch them again, have a shower and perhaps even re-bag them just before you get to the dogs (the soak time wont be long - but it may be just enough). I'm sure others can think of little things that you can do if your really paranoid.
Also, get creative with your hiding spots...I've got one that I've never seen posted before, it wont hold too many drugs but enough for a little guy like myself.