Skydancer -- A Democratic Bluelight *see first post for link to Skydancer's response*

yes, but how many of those are still around and active today? without bluelight around, of course it is easy to get them to post somewhere else, but if the site is still around, and said bluelighters are still regulars on this board, its not so easy to draw them away.

i'm just glad that catch cant ruin chat, like he has nearly everythign else associated with bluelight, and would immediately be banned if he ever showed his face in there ;)
 
Like Webb and a few others here, I have also successfully managed large virtual communities. The first was long before the internet came about, and ran off of an old PDP-11.

There is a real problem which occurs when the power to make decisions rests on only a few individuals. Those who occupy such positions of power, eventually fulfill the "Peter Principle" and begin doing damage to the community itself. This is the very reason why this thread exists.

It is also symptomatic that Catch has not yet posted here in this thread. Perhaps he is unaware of this discussion, or perhaps he has chosen not to. either way, it demonstrates a lack of connectedness to the community in which he is managing.

What is wrong here is that the management system has become far too ridged. It's decision making "top heavy." And by that, I do not mean that there are too many people at the top. But rather, that the power to make decisions rests in the hands of too few people. It is a classic system of management and prone to failure when those at the top become complacent.


There are two responses (and perhaps three) which can be done to remedy a broken community management structure:

One of them is replacement of the top level officer(s) with individuals who will work to insure that the needs of the community are met. One could argue that these needs are being met. After all, the servers are operating, the forums are staffed, and a high response time has been maintained. That is true of the infrastructure, but infrastructure alone does not a community make.


The second, is to redefine the management structure in such a way as to better fit the needs of the community which it serves. This can vary from situation to situation, but what I see as one possibility here, is the higher offices being replaced by committees. Committees can be constructed to be representative of subsections of the overall community (much like the structure of many governments), and effectively carry on the wishes of the overall community at large.

Although committees can successfully serve the greater good of the community, they are not an automatic guarantee for a working solution. A committee (group of individuals) is only as effective as their collective commitment to the ideals of the office upon which they hold. In the worst case, within groups of individuals there is always the possibility of developing a "group think" which effectively serves the committee but neglects to serve the community. And that is the same kind of failure as can be seen at the individual level of a single person office.


The [possible] third option, is for a self reassignment and recapitulation. This option is dependent on many factors: recognition by the officer in question that a problem in fact exists, agreement by the community at large that recapitulation is feasible, and a demonstrable improvement as time goes on.

Bluelight has quite a few problems. I think one of them is a blind side to the potential that exists here. I've already voiced my suggestions for why the "harm reduction essay project" has failed in a separate thread and there is little reason to reiterate it here.

However, another case in point is the new Bluelight tee-shirts which are now available. The general understanding of how to effectively promote something is about equal to the skill at promotion which the old grey Soviet had. The link to the Bluelight tee-shirts site is just another link, currently appearing on the front page, and will quickly disappear into the vast pile of links, never to be seen again by the majority of the Bluelight community.

I am sure that some traffic makes its way to the links section. And those of you with access to the Bluelight web traffic statistics know that it is but a very small fraction of the overall traffic to this site. Although the idea of selling Bluelight tee-shirts (and other items) is excellent, we yet again have a situation which if left to the current mechanism is again doomed to fail. That is, unless there are other plans. And if those plans are a single announcement in a forum, that isn't going to cut it either.

You can all laugh, but I am going to close with something I said to my mother in 1960:

"Mom, when are we going to buy a color TV?" :\
 
I'm going to split off some of the joking lounge-type replies and put them in a closed thread. I'm very happy about the seriousness of the responses here and I hope the discussion continues in this fashion.
 
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paradoxcycle said:
No, I doubt it. Your behavior was out of line and you were punished accordingly. What; did you expect a vote on whether you'd stay a mod or not? And who gives a fuck if there's a "whole legion" of people that hate Catch-22. I'm sure there's loads of people who dislike me but that's the way life is.
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Yah, I just wish that I had been entitled to one mistake. I was a damn good moderator, search back through some of my posts in Drug Basics and you'll see. I got drunk and flamed some guy who probably deserved it(not that it matters). I don't understand your hostility towards me, if there had been a less power-hungry guy in charge, I probably would have been given a second chance. IMO, everyone is entitled to a second chance.

And the reason that it matters that there's a whole legion of people who hate catch-22 is that he's the guy with the most power. Personally I couldn't give a fuck if there's a whole legion of people who don't like me, I don't have anything to do with how this site is run, I just post around and try to share some of my knowledge, but when the guy who runs the show isn't popular with the majority of the people, it's basically an unpopular dictatorship, and in the end the majority always wins.
 
Originally posted by paradoxcycle
No, I doubt it. Your behavior was out of line and you were punished accordingly. What; did you expect a vote on whether you'd stay a mod or not? And who gives a fuck if there's a "whole legion" of people that hate Catch-22. I'm sure there's loads of people who dislike me but that's the way life is.

That's the way YOUR life is. And YOUR life is full of those kinds of problems because YOU make it that way.

When your life is full of "OH YEAH? TOUGH SHIT!" that is all you have to look forward to. :\
 
from an exchange of PM's >>

i believe is a v smart, v hard working, v v valuable member of BL but i do not believe he is doing a good job as "dictator" and i am trying to enforce his resignation. -- cheers, alan

Yes, I completely agree. I don't think it's enough for people to just ask him to "be more open-minded" etc. I think that he has to go, because in my experience of the world: people rarely change. "yyyy"

having thought about this even more than i have already i do not believe it possible for anyone to act effectively as a "dictator" of BL.

whoever is effectively the CEO needs the absolute support and guidance of both those above and below the command chain.
 
someone explain something to me... i'm not asking what country, but exactly what office, what anything do the physical servers reside. Does someone, Catch-22 or sky perhaps, have direct access to the webserver? From past conversations, i'm taking it someone has direct access.

If it is catch, and say catch were to hypothetically step down or go -away.. what exactly happens to all the hardware, all this saved information of 1,000s of threads, harm reduction info, etc?
 
Web said:
I have some idea about what it takes to run a board as big as bluelight... those of you who wish to see C-22 lose his power... which one of you (or group of you) wishes to take over the responsabilities? Careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
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Catch has certainly put an incredible amount of effort into running this board. But BL was run OK before Catch, and it will hopefully be run OK after him. (Bearing in mind that whatever happens now, he will eventually choose to step down - even if it's in 20 years from now - or more). So *someone* is going to have to admin this community after he goes.

I'm not even arguing that Catch should step down. I'm arguing that BL should return to its democratic roots. Back in the day, mods (and members) were listened to. There was local autonomy. Final power and responsibility rested with admins, obviously, but they were generally happy to run things based on recommendations from the grunts, and to concentrate on high-level strategic stuff.

There's no reason the board can't be run this way, with the same people in charge.
 
Bluelight should not be a democracy. Democracy = rule of the idiot mob.
 
^
There's going to be fallacies any which way you do it. I'd rather the community have a say, than merely Catch.
 
skywise said:
Bluelight should not be a democracy. Democracy = rule of the idiot mob.
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did you read my opening post >>

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
 
Not necessarily a democracy. Even the United States is not a democracy, but rather a republic. Democracy means that everyone on Bluelight would be able to vote on every matter. Republic means that the appointed representatives (moderators) would vote or come to some sort of consensus on matters.
 
^^^ agree. i am using the word in a generic context. there are various forms it could take.
 
I agree with whatever the fuck xtcxtc wants to do.

When it comes down to it, he is the engine in the system.

It doesn't need to be democratic. Catch 22 is a power hungry dickwad and came to power thru some sheer anomaly, after not putting in half the time and effort that about 1000 other BLers have put in, somehow people were blind enough to let him cruise to the top of the hierarchal pecking order, where he subsequently dismantled the administration staff, replaced it with newer people, even with the defiance of the Admins who had been here since day one. IMO he ruined the communitiy, it has been ever-tarnished since. Yes I'm fucking bitter, but no I dont care. And altho he could probly blow up my computer with a virus, he put the taste of lemon in many a mouth of bluelighters. Now there are sub communities on other boards with all these former admins, and disgruntled BLers who were fed up with the antics and the lack of respect and regard for what this board was all about to begin with.

I come to the board to post in my first home - Music and DJ's where I was a mod for about a year some time ago now, I stepped down because someone who had been banned 3 times was promoted to a moderator, and it really just baffled me. Without a blink, the admins said "ok fuck you j22, peace" And thats the way it was.

I still keep in touch with some people I find cool, but do my correspondence with the disgruntled people who made this place great and helped build it from the ground up elsewhere.

C-22 pissed all over BL, made it his oyster and ruled as he saw fit, and thats the way it'll continue to be. He put Big Red in the ass of every BLer in my opinion.

Whatever xtc xtc wants to do, is goddamn fine with me.

Later gang
 
Sorry to be so blunt, just dont think anyone else has the balls to say it and I know a lot of people feel it.
 
DigitalDuality said:
I keep seeing chr1.5 browse the forum, i'd love your input..
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we;ve chatted many times, and based on those convos I can tell you his sentiment rings similar to mine.

but hopefully he'll confirm that with a post. dont count on it tho
 
Well said, j22. I have nothing else to add, cuz you summed things up perfectly.
 
I just don't think the place is running as smoothly as it once did, I have basically chosen not to post here anymore. I wasn't sour about being demoted. But I have been slightly pissed off about how the boards are loosing custom

for example right now the boards have: Members 118, guests 55 browsing the forums...

I remember checking this previously to all the changes and seeing more members and guests browsing. (more like 250 members on average, and 100 guests)

I think the management could do with a definite rethink of how the place is run.

I will also say that i think that catch-22 has let the power go to his head.
 
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