• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
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Should Ecstasy be legal?

There's no way we could go from illegal to legal overnight.

It would take a great reshaping of our thought processes, our morals, our education system, and, to be frank, a lot of time and effort, more than you can imagine, for us to actually adopt a system of non-prohibition with regards to drugs. America is just not ready for the change today. In fact, if we were to vote on it today, the vast majority of people would be against it.

And believe me, I want drugs to be legal more than nearly anything. Not just because I like to use them occasionally, but I think, as far as personal rights and property rights go, it should be unconstitutional for the government to ban drugs. In addition, you also have the standard arguments about the reduction in crime due to the dissolution of the black market for ecstasy and other drugs. This is an undeniable truth, as we have seen similar results with the prohibition of alcohol in the 1920s.

But, if I were to vote on an immediate lifting of the ban on drugs tonight, I would probably vote no, if only because it is obvious we are not ready. I would be in favor of a slow transition where we would go from heavy regulation down to complete deregulation and legality, over the space of several decades. That would give time for the proper research on drugs to be conducted, by respectable third parties. Hopefully, one of the major first steps in this will be the acceptance of proper, unrestricted drug research, and reputable, extensive sociological research into questions like, "Are drugs really that bad for society?" and "If someone uses within their own home, without harming others, is that a crime?" Perhaps this will lead to a slow acceptance of personal rights with regards to drugs, over a long period of time of course.

As it stands now, too many people are against the idea of deprohibition.
Only time will tell if people are willing to change their minds.
 
Care said:
On an idealistic level im a libertarian and think as long as you aren’t effecting the lives of others in a negative way you should be free to do as you please.

However ecstasy (and almost all psychoactive drugs for that matter) can be dangerous when misused, and while that in itself doesn’t warrant them being a controlled substance we must be careful when introducing the public to a drug they have long been deprived of. Most people know little to nothing about MDMA, and that general ignorance isn’t going to change overnight. If people without the proper knowledge start buying ecstasy legally for recreational use alongside other drugs then you're just asking for trouble.

The best solution is to introduce it for medical use. Then once it is legal conduct studies on it so people have the best information possible when deciding to use it. Teach harm reduction and safe drug use in schools instead of all the "Drug Free" garbage they have now, and in a few years you will have a society that has safer, cheaper, legal drugs. And the money spent on them will go private business and the government through taxes, not drug kingpins in other countries.
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I think that if mdma were made legal tomorrow you would have an onslaught of people purchasing the drug and using the drug. But once the "new-ness" wore off things would settle down. There isn't any way to prevent everyone from abusing and a few bad apples shouldn't ruin the bunch.

I agree completely with you on education though, specifically in schools. Kids are going to do what kids do and it shows that the "education" that kids are getting now just isn't working. Harm reduction and safety should be first and foremost.
 
If we could take the ridiculous amounts of money we're spending on the drug war and funnel it back into harm reduction education for kids and adults alike, man, think of the endless possibilities. And think of the countless lives we could save.
 
purplefirefly said:
I think that if mdma were made legal tomorrow you would have an onslaught of people purchasing the drug and using the drug. But once the "new-ness" wore off things would settle down. There isn't any way to prevent everyone from abusing and a few bad apples shouldn't ruin the bunch.

I agree completely with you on education though, specifically in schools. Kids are going to do what kids do and it shows that the "education" that kids are getting now just isn't working. Harm reduction and safety should be first and foremost.
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In school they taught me that tobacco and alcohol is bad.. but I can still buy em almost anywhere
 
If people were responsible by nature, every drug known to mankind would already be legal. However, this is not the case. We as a world have proven that we are irresponsible, even when it comes to the drugs that are already legal...tobacco and alcohol. Kids under 18 pick up smoking, and nobody waits until 21 to drink, do they? No. Even in nations where alcohol is legal, we still see our problematic nature being prone to error. Germany, for example...no drinking age, up until this year, where they had to raise it to 14 because 12 year olds were out getting plastered. We all have a tendency to disobey rules. Is there a greater thrill or pleasure than being able to say no to people who try to force us not to do something?

I think drugs should be legal, but only in the hands of responsible people. And since there are no truly responsible people, I believe they will never be legalized.
 
Isolator said:
We all have a tendency to disobey rules.
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You said it youself... even if its illegal people will go trough crime to get it and poison themself.. Some will resort to theft, violence, even murder to procure drugs...

So why not legalize it and have the state control the sale of pure product just like alcohol and tobacco products?
 
Zzyzx said:
You said it youself... even if its illegal people will go trough crime to get it and poison themself.. Some will resort to theft, violence, even murder to procure drugs...

So why not legalize it and have the state control the sale of pure product just like alcohol and tobacco products?
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Because idiots will discover the drug and abuse the shit out of it. We would have a nation of addicts. And what comes with addiction? Loss of control of oneself?

Trust me, I want drugs to be legal for my own selfish benefit and need, but I don't think everyone else will be able to control themselves like I can. And that's what EVERY SINGLE pro-drug person thinks.
 
Isolator said:
Because idiots will discover the drug and abuse the shit out of it. We would have a nation of addicts. And what comes with addiction? Loss of control of oneself?

Trust me, I want drugs to be legal for my own selfish benefit and need, but I don't think everyone else will be able to control themselves like I can. And that's what EVERY SINGLE pro-drug person thinks.
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I must admit it, youre right

Than what about decriminalizing small ammounts that are clearly for personal usage and punish it with a fine rather than jail time ?
 
Zzyzx said:
I must admit it, youre right

Than what about decriminalizing small ammounts that are clearly for personal usage and punish it with a fine rather than jail time ?
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That wouldn't work. Small amount is still an amount. 200mg of MDMA is a small amount, yet if an unexperienced idiot did that and got behind a wheel of a car, there's a dozen deaths. A gram of heroin is a small amount, and after I do about half a gram of smack, I am already too fucked up to drive. And if I've been driving for over 10 years on virtually every drug you can think of and I can't drive on smack, what makes you think that a first timer won't try to do what I can't? What makes you think a guy flying on one bowl of meth won't go out and start randomly robbing stores? Legalizing even a small amount will still bring mayhem and chaos to a world not ready to face legality.
 
Isolator said:
That wouldn't work. Small amount is still an amount. 200mg of MDMA is a small amount, yet if an unexperienced idiot did that and got behind a wheel of a car, there's a dozen deaths. A gram of heroin is a small amount, and after I do about half a gram of smack, I am already too fucked up to drive. And if I've been driving for over 10 years on virtually every drug you can think of and I can't drive on smack, what makes you think that a first timer won't try to do what I can't? What makes you think a guy flying on one bowl of meth won't go out and start randomly robbing stores? Legalizing even a small amount will still bring mayhem and chaos to a world not ready to face legality.
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small ammounts of weed have been decriminalized here in canada but driving under the influence of anything is still illegal so I dont see your point...

i think that most people who want to try drugs already did so or can already manage to do it illegaly.. why would it bring mayhem and chaos
 
Zzyzx said:
small ammounts of weed have been decriminalized here in canada but driving under the influence of anything is still illegal so I dont see your point...

i think that most people who want to try drugs already did so or can already manage to do it illegaly.. why would it bring mayhem and chaos
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Weed is not a drug. It's a weed. Hence the name. Only reason it has been declared illegal is due to high ability to grow it in your home and the government not being able to tax it. You don't grow tobacco in your home, you don't brew liquor, hence why both are readily available to the public.

And mayhem and chaos will come from millions of drug dealers going out of business (creating conflict between seller and buyer), and newcomers to the drugs (people who don't do drugs simply because they are illegal (and yes, most people abstain for that very reason)) would think "Oh jolly stuff, Batman! Now we can have some mighty good fun!" and start abusing shit they know nothing about, other words...just going for the artificial feeling. Also, the educational system will perish because most kids in school will find a way to turn their underdeveloped brains into mush before they hit puberty. So, no. Drugs should not be legalized, because dumbasses have a tendency to be...well...dumbasses.
 
Definitely should be legal, at least tolerated, but at the same time definitely regulated. I don't think our government understands by making it illegal more people are actually dying, not because of MDMA overdose but people selling/buying/consuming dangerouc substances being passed off as MDMA. It's really sad. THey need to realize people are going to do what they are going to do, and making something illegal won't deter people from stop doing something they enjoy and believe in.
 
well lets not forget that mdma is an amphetamine, can trigger psychosis in those predispossed and can if used too often deplete a persons brain of serotonin.

low levels of serotonin being linked to depression, ocd, violent behaviour, impulsive behaviour, suicide, anxiety, sleep and appetite disturbancees, and many more negative consequences.

if used in a therapeutic manner-i.e. with a counsellor (as it is in switzerland) then it stands to benefit society.

but i have seen people quit jobs on comedowns and go through periods of being very aggressive and impulsive after excessive use. it needs to be a controlled prescribed substance used for improvement of mental wellbeing through therapy as excessive use for fun can have quite the opposite effect on society in the long term

also if it was a prescribed substance the risk of quality control would go down and its availability on the black market would rise and the price would fall.
 
Isolator said:
Weed is not a drug. It's a weed. Hence the name. Only reason it has been declared illegal is due to high ability to grow it in your home and the government not being able to tax it. You don't grow tobacco in your home, you don't brew liquor, hence why both are readily available to the public.

And mayhem and chaos will come from millions of drug dealers going out of business (creating conflict between seller and buyer), and newcomers to the drugs (people who don't do drugs simply because they are illegal (and yes, most people abstain for that very reason)) would think "Oh jolly stuff, Batman! Now we can have some mighty good fun!" and start abusing shit they know nothing about, other words...just going for the artificial feeling. Also, the educational system will perish because most kids in school will find a way to turn their underdeveloped brains into mush before they hit puberty. So, no. Drugs should not be legalized, because dumbasses have a tendency to be...well...dumbasses.
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people do brew their own beer, and some people grow their own tobacco so open your mind a bit. but yes the general stupid public tend to behave like they are stupid in my experience
 
pofacedhoe said:
people do brew their own beer, and some people grow their own tobacco so open your mind a bit. but yes the general stupid public tend to behave like they are stupid in my experience
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I'm sure they do, but not as a hobby or out of convenience. Weed is grown as both, considering you literally have to put no effort into growing it. Tobacco is harder to cultivate and beer takes weeks to brew. People don't bother growing tobacco or brewing beer, although there are probably a token few who do. A dime of weed costs two packs of cigarettes, 3 packs in some states. Therefore, people grow it to reap profit. Alcohol and tobacco are inconvenient to produce, hence we have taxation and legality.
 
Isolator said:
That wouldn't work. Small amount is still an amount. 200mg of MDMA is a small amount, yet if an unexperienced idiot did that and got behind a wheel of a car, there's a dozen deaths. A gram of heroin is a small amount, and after I do about half a gram of smack, I am already too fucked up to drive. And if I've been driving for over 10 years on virtually every drug you can think of and I can't drive on smack, what makes you think that a first timer won't try to do what I can't? What makes you think a guy flying on one bowl of meth won't go out and start randomly robbing stores? Legalizing even a small amount will still bring mayhem and chaos to a world not ready to face legality.
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How is that any different from how things are now? There are people committing robberies now while under the influence of drugs and there are still all sorts of intoxicated drivers.

I don't think that legalization is going to necessarily entice people who haven't used before to automatically go out and start using like it's nobody's business. There may be some people who will try it because it's legal, but I bet those people were thinking about it when it was illegal. And who knows, given time, those people may have used it illegally anyway. To me, Legality = Harm Reduction.
 
purplefirefly said:
How is that any different from how things are now? There are people committing robberies now while under the influence of drugs and there are still all sorts of intoxicated drivers.

I don't think that legalization is going to necessarily entice people who haven't used before to automatically go out and start using like it's nobody's business. There may be some people who will try it because it's legal, but I bet those people were thinking about it when it was illegal. And who knows, given time, those people may have used it illegally anyway. To me, Legality = Harm Reduction.
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The thing about an irresponsible society is...when it's illegal we're still moderately under control...when it becomes legal, it's like throwing gallons of water on an oil flame. It would make things a whole lot worse than they already are.
 
Isolator said:
The thing about an irresponsible society is...when it's illegal we're still moderately under control...when it becomes legal, it's like throwing gallons of water on an oil flame. It would make things a whole lot worse than they already are.
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I'm not necessarily convinced of that. *shrugs*
 
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