Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
herby is awesome
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H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist
Self Hatred
- Thread starter Captain.Heroin
- Start date
manboychef
Bluelighter
Are you talking about the movie House Guest with Sinbad? Yeah that movie sucked. JK
I have experienced what you are experiencing CH. For so long I worked a high stress job, and didn't take care of myself. This led to 2 nervous breakdowns, and a break from reality. I should probably have a punch card in the psych ward because I practically work there.
.
Therapy works well for this...but you have to find a therapist that you can work with. I went through a few before I found Louis. He understands OCD and panic disorder and how the two feed off each other (it has been very hard to find a therapist that specializes in OCD). His accent and voice is also soothing. He was the fellow that suggested trying heart mathematics (a breathing technique) and he also convinced me that bad things do happen, but not all the time. He is awesome. I still call him from time to time when I am experiencing something I myself cannot handle. He knows I can barely leave my house so I can just call him and within a day he will get back to me.
I hate myself some days because I cannot leave my house and there is so much I want to do. It makes me feel defective.
I have experienced what you are experiencing CH. For so long I worked a high stress job, and didn't take care of myself. This led to 2 nervous breakdowns, and a break from reality. I should probably have a punch card in the psych ward because I practically work there.
.
Therapy works well for this...but you have to find a therapist that you can work with. I went through a few before I found Louis. He understands OCD and panic disorder and how the two feed off each other (it has been very hard to find a therapist that specializes in OCD). His accent and voice is also soothing. He was the fellow that suggested trying heart mathematics (a breathing technique) and he also convinced me that bad things do happen, but not all the time. He is awesome. I still call him from time to time when I am experiencing something I myself cannot handle. He knows I can barely leave my house so I can just call him and within a day he will get back to me.
I hate myself some days because I cannot leave my house and there is so much I want to do. It makes me feel defective.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
How does gardening make you feel?
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Are you talking about the movie House Guest with Sinbad? Yeah that movie sucked. JK
I have experienced what you are experiencing CH. For so long I worked a high stress job, and didn't take care of myself. This led to 2 nervous breakdowns, and a break from reality. I should probably have a punch card in the psych ward because I practically work there.
.
Therapy works well for this...but you have to find a therapist that you can work with. I went through a few before I found Louis. He understands OCD and panic disorder and how the two feed off each other (it has been very hard to find a therapist that specializes in OCD). His accent and voice is also soothing. He was the fellow that suggested trying heart mathematics (a breathing technique) and he also convinced me that bad things do happen, but not all the time. He is awesome. I still call him from time to time when I am experiencing something I myself cannot handle. He knows I can barely leave my house so I can just call him and within a day he will get back to me.
I hate myself some days because I cannot leave my house and there is so much I want to do. It makes me feel defective.
I hope today is a good day for you buddy
I feel like I got all this garbage from family and other people I was around when I was younger, and it takes years to work through it.
It's like when you forget something in the morning, and it kinda agitates you all day even though you can't put your finger on it. Then you remember in the evening and feel better.
So I had a lot of people tell me on a consistent basis that I'm stupid, ugly, irrelevant, etc. And I just assumed it was true, then I went into my "drugging" period, and here I am a couple of decades later, looking at myself in the mirror and saying: "Yeah, I don't think what they were saying was necessarily true"
It's like the drugs stopped me from dealing with the root of the problem way, way earlier.
I don't feel like I hate myself now, though I can certainly relate as I did for decades.
It's like when you forget something in the morning, and it kinda agitates you all day even though you can't put your finger on it. Then you remember in the evening and feel better.
So I had a lot of people tell me on a consistent basis that I'm stupid, ugly, irrelevant, etc. And I just assumed it was true, then I went into my "drugging" period, and here I am a couple of decades later, looking at myself in the mirror and saying: "Yeah, I don't think what they were saying was necessarily true"
It's like the drugs stopped me from dealing with the root of the problem way, way earlier.
I don't feel like I hate myself now, though I can certainly relate as I did for decades.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I'm sorry that you were told those things, and I hope you can see the truth, that you're a really wonderful person.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
I hope today is a good day for you buddy
I tend to do this myself, so I know how easy it is, plus it is actually a really good habit, but what do you think about reaching out when you're having a GOOD day versus only reaching out when you're having a bad one? It seems only doing one or the other isn't much good, although our lives all tend to cycle into (and through) the good and bad times.
manboychef
Bluelighter
Indeed: Most days are not bad, though I experience OCD everyday to varying degrees. The days that are really bad and I cannot leave my room I just don't post. Gardening makes me feel great...it is one of the only times I can turn my mind away from all the bad things that could happen. One thing that blows my mind: When I am having bad intrusive thoughts I put my headphones on high to try to drown them out....I have panic disorder. People will come up and tap me on the shoulder or wave their hand in front of my face to say hello or goodbye. This freaks me right out and causes me to feel fight or flight (thank goodness I haven't just thrown a punch out of fear in a while). I feel like the cowardly lion. .
Bobby: Most people that make those kinds of comments are actually making them about things they do not like in themselves.
.Bobby: Most people that make those kinds of comments are actually making them about things they do not like in themselves.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
I have been thinking about this thread a lot recently.
I find self hatred intimately wrapped up with feelings of guilt and/or shame. It has a lot to do with how the felt experience of these two emotions is integrated (if in perhaps unskillful ways) into our sense of self (unskillfully in the sense that we are doing so in limiting ways, where we let our ideas of who we are get in the way of who we are and could possibly become).
Self hatred is suffering. Despite a most basic and innate, I would say universal, human desire to move beyond states of suffering, I was long unsuccessfully in addressing how I have hated who I had become, my relationships, my drug use, my quality of life - everything about my being in the world - until I began to really make an effort at exploring the nuances of living a more ethical lifestyle. It seemed impossible for me to move beyond self-loathing, shame and identifying my essential sense self with failure until I began to work on my own personal ethics in life.
Perhaps it happened something like this...
First I began to gain awareness of the harm I caused myself and those I love. This lead to an awareness of my un-ethic, which in effect (if not intentionally) leading to the creation of much harm - primarily through behavior attendant to unhealthy patterns of drug use. Gaining an awareness of unethical behavior led to my desiring, and then making efforts, to live ethically in all spheres and dimensions of life. This enabled and inevitably led to me to beginning to identifying less and less with the shame I felt surrounding my perceived failures, to moving beyond the limitations of habituated behavior and unskillful choices embodied in unhealthy patterns of drug use (please not I am not labeling all drug use as inherently unhealthy - but this is for another discussion).
Thus ethics has become the antithesis of self hatred and shame for me. It's like how a teacher of mine likes to say that it is impossible to truly smoke a cigarette mindfully. It becomes more and more difficult act in ways that create harm as I bring awareness the myriad of choices, behaviors and thought patterns associated harm. I have come to understand modes of being that cultivate hatred and loathing as harmful.
Please note, I am not saying it is "wrong" or unethical to experience shame, guilt or self hatred. I am not saying experiences colored by these qualities are bad - only that they are painful and lead to suffering when we get caught up in or identify strongly with them.
Our emotions and the thoughts we have are instead reflects of our experience in the world. They are never ultimately who we are - only how we are relating to ourselves at any one given point in the course of time - the product of the causes and conditions of our lives. The idea that who we will be is merely who we have been, while a sometime useful and often temping story, is just that - just a story. For better and worse, contrary action is always possible (for the better with insight and supportive circumstances).
With an ethic of non-harming, it seems to become more and more distasteful to willingly engage in harmful behavior. When we bring awareness of how our choices and our actions lead to harming outcomes (regardless of whether it's for ourselves, others, our environment, etc), automatically (or mindlessly) engaging in those actions and identifying with the unskillfulness of those choices becomes more and more difficult to do.
I am also not saying that I live any kind of perfect life or an always ethical. Awareness of ethics does not, and will never lead to, an ethic of perfection (perfection is after all ultimately illusory, a kind of tautology - one can always and never become better than one is in any moment). In fact, it is only in my imperfections, mistakes and failures, and how I relate to them, that I have been able to gain any awareness of ethics in the first place. It is that awareness of ethical and unethical choices and behavior, of harm and my role in (re)creating it, that is what is important.
Of course, ethics is not something often discussed in Western culture. Certainly, talking about vulnerability can be uncomfortable. It's almost like in discussing it we feel like we are taking too great a risk in terms of cultivating its opposite (it certainly risks awareness of how we do so - and that again can be very uncomfortable, particularly when we haven't been paying attention to our role in creating harm).
When I speak of ethics I'm not referring to any dogmatic or rigid structure or set of beliefs even here. I am relating more to the practice of working towards more fully embodying a particular way of being in the world that is focused on non-harming and becoming, of moving beyond how the inherently limiting quality of the stories I tell myself or that, particularly as an IV drug users, others have labeled me by.
tl;dr
The ethic of non-harming and self-hatred share an inverse relationship with each other. The more I live with an ethic of non-harming, the less I hate myself and my world. I don't think it is possible to really love with some degree of ethics. And there is no better salve to the alienation of self hatred than connection, or love.
I find self hatred intimately wrapped up with feelings of guilt and/or shame. It has a lot to do with how the felt experience of these two emotions is integrated (if in perhaps unskillful ways) into our sense of self (unskillfully in the sense that we are doing so in limiting ways, where we let our ideas of who we are get in the way of who we are and could possibly become).
Self hatred is suffering. Despite a most basic and innate, I would say universal, human desire to move beyond states of suffering, I was long unsuccessfully in addressing how I have hated who I had become, my relationships, my drug use, my quality of life - everything about my being in the world - until I began to really make an effort at exploring the nuances of living a more ethical lifestyle. It seemed impossible for me to move beyond self-loathing, shame and identifying my essential sense self with failure until I began to work on my own personal ethics in life.
Perhaps it happened something like this...
First I began to gain awareness of the harm I caused myself and those I love. This lead to an awareness of my un-ethic, which in effect (if not intentionally) leading to the creation of much harm - primarily through behavior attendant to unhealthy patterns of drug use. Gaining an awareness of unethical behavior led to my desiring, and then making efforts, to live ethically in all spheres and dimensions of life. This enabled and inevitably led to me to beginning to identifying less and less with the shame I felt surrounding my perceived failures, to moving beyond the limitations of habituated behavior and unskillful choices embodied in unhealthy patterns of drug use (please not I am not labeling all drug use as inherently unhealthy - but this is for another discussion).
Thus ethics has become the antithesis of self hatred and shame for me. It's like how a teacher of mine likes to say that it is impossible to truly smoke a cigarette mindfully. It becomes more and more difficult act in ways that create harm as I bring awareness the myriad of choices, behaviors and thought patterns associated harm. I have come to understand modes of being that cultivate hatred and loathing as harmful.
Please note, I am not saying it is "wrong" or unethical to experience shame, guilt or self hatred. I am not saying experiences colored by these qualities are bad - only that they are painful and lead to suffering when we get caught up in or identify strongly with them.
Our emotions and the thoughts we have are instead reflects of our experience in the world. They are never ultimately who we are - only how we are relating to ourselves at any one given point in the course of time - the product of the causes and conditions of our lives. The idea that who we will be is merely who we have been, while a sometime useful and often temping story, is just that - just a story. For better and worse, contrary action is always possible (for the better with insight and supportive circumstances).
With an ethic of non-harming, it seems to become more and more distasteful to willingly engage in harmful behavior. When we bring awareness of how our choices and our actions lead to harming outcomes (regardless of whether it's for ourselves, others, our environment, etc), automatically (or mindlessly) engaging in those actions and identifying with the unskillfulness of those choices becomes more and more difficult to do.
I am also not saying that I live any kind of perfect life or an always ethical. Awareness of ethics does not, and will never lead to, an ethic of perfection (perfection is after all ultimately illusory, a kind of tautology - one can always and never become better than one is in any moment). In fact, it is only in my imperfections, mistakes and failures, and how I relate to them, that I have been able to gain any awareness of ethics in the first place. It is that awareness of ethical and unethical choices and behavior, of harm and my role in (re)creating it, that is what is important.
Of course, ethics is not something often discussed in Western culture. Certainly, talking about vulnerability can be uncomfortable. It's almost like in discussing it we feel like we are taking too great a risk in terms of cultivating its opposite (it certainly risks awareness of how we do so - and that again can be very uncomfortable, particularly when we haven't been paying attention to our role in creating harm).
When I speak of ethics I'm not referring to any dogmatic or rigid structure or set of beliefs even here. I am relating more to the practice of working towards more fully embodying a particular way of being in the world that is focused on non-harming and becoming, of moving beyond how the inherently limiting quality of the stories I tell myself or that, particularly as an IV drug users, others have labeled me by.
tl;dr
The ethic of non-harming and self-hatred share an inverse relationship with each other. The more I live with an ethic of non-harming, the less I hate myself and my world. I don't think it is possible to really love with some degree of ethics. And there is no better salve to the alienation of self hatred than connection, or love.
Last edited by a moderator:
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I still hate myself and I'm sure that it's just part of who I am. I'm not trying to change it anymore, and have worked on acceptance this last year or so. I think it's allowed me to resume a 'normal life', and that's been beneficial for me, for what it's worth.
I look forward to the future, but I know I'm never going to love myself. It would just be an unrealistic pipe dream.
I look forward to the future, but I know I'm never going to love myself. It would just be an unrealistic pipe dream.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Whether you feel like you do or not, it sounds a lot to me like you are learning how to love yourself in a more authentic way than not. Connection for me is largely synonymous with love, so perhaps by getting in touch with yourself in the ways you have you are beginning to love yourself (if in a very particular, usual way).
I don't think I ever truly hated myself per se. I think that I hated who I had become, but I was still able - if on some distant level - to distinguish between some ultimate sense of self (or reality) and what my life had become. Iono...
How would you describe your own personal ethic CH? From what I see of you on BL, it's certainly not of someone who thrives on hatred alone.
I don't think I ever truly hated myself per se. I think that I hated who I had become, but I was still able - if on some distant level - to distinguish between some ultimate sense of self (or reality) and what my life had become. Iono...
How would you describe your own personal ethic CH? From what I see of you on BL, it's certainly not of someone who thrives on hatred alone.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
What would a personal ethic be?
from google; that's still pretty vague
from google; that's still pretty vague
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
That is a darn, darn good question! Perhaps we don't talk about ethics in our culture because we simply do not understand what they are - that makes a lot more sense to me! 
I conceptualize a personal ethic as a kind of ethical set point. I'm asking about the "rules" that you use (or have used, or feel comfortable using) that you use to guide your decision making calculus.
I identify with a kind of Buddhist ethic, but that doesn't really describe its essence very well (after all, there are many Buddhist belief systems out there), because it is a very particularly Buddhist ethic. It's like, I got a taste of it through Buddhism, but Buddhism has no monopoly on it (it just as well could have been Muslim, Jewish, or Christian). My ethic certainly is communitarian, but it's also individualistic - I don't see the two as inherently mutually exclusive.
Perhaps asking about one's "personal ethic" should be thought of more as asking if and how one has committed to training one's self to become more ethical. See http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-Resources?p=13784897&viewfull=1#post13784897 for a more thorough explanation on my part.
This is my favorite "map" of (or guidelines for) ethical behavior:
At least that is the most concise explanation of the personal ethic I identify with.
I conceptualize a personal ethic as a kind of ethical set point. I'm asking about the "rules" that you use (or have used, or feel comfortable using) that you use to guide your decision making calculus.
I identify with a kind of Buddhist ethic, but that doesn't really describe its essence very well (after all, there are many Buddhist belief systems out there), because it is a very particularly Buddhist ethic. It's like, I got a taste of it through Buddhism, but Buddhism has no monopoly on it (it just as well could have been Muslim, Jewish, or Christian). My ethic certainly is communitarian, but it's also individualistic - I don't see the two as inherently mutually exclusive.
Perhaps asking about one's "personal ethic" should be thought of more as asking if and how one has committed to training one's self to become more ethical. See http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-Resources?p=13784897&viewfull=1#post13784897 for a more thorough explanation on my part.
This is my favorite "map" of (or guidelines for) ethical behavior:
Aware of the suffering caused by the destruction of life, I am committed to cultivating compassion and learning ways to protect the lives of people, animals, plants, and minerals. I am determined not to kill, not to let others kill, and not to condone any act of killing in the world, in my thinking, and in my way of life.
Aware of the suffering caused by exploitation, social injustice, stealing, and oppression, I am committed to cultivating loving kindness and learning ways to work for the well-being of people, animals, plants, and minerals. I will practice generosity by sharing my time, energy, and material resources with those who are in real need. I am determined not to steal and not to possess anything that should belong to others. I will respect the property of others, but I will prevent others from profiting from human suffering or the suffering of other species on Earth.
Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I am committed to cultivating responsibility and learning ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long-term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct.
Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivating loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness to others and relive others of their suffering. Knowing that words can create happiness or suffering, I am determined to speak truthfully, with words that inspire self confidence, joy, and hope. I will not spread news that I do not know to be certain and will not criticize or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or that can cause the family or the community to break. I am determined to make all efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small.
Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful consumption, I am committed to cultivating good health, both physical and mental, for myself, my family, and my society by practicing mindful eating, drinking, and consuming. I will ingest only items that preserve peace, well-being, and joy in my body, in my consciousness, and in the collective body and consciousness of my family and society. I am determined not to use alcohol or any other intoxicant or to ingest foods or other items that contain toxins, such as certain TV programs, magazines, books, films, and conversations. I am aware that to damage my body or my consciousness with these poisons is to betray my ancestors, my parents, my society, and future generations. I will work to transform violence, fear, anger, and confusion in myself and in society by practicing a diet for myself and for society. I understand that a proper diet is crucial for self-transformation of society.
Aware of the suffering caused by exploitation, social injustice, stealing, and oppression, I am committed to cultivating loving kindness and learning ways to work for the well-being of people, animals, plants, and minerals. I will practice generosity by sharing my time, energy, and material resources with those who are in real need. I am determined not to steal and not to possess anything that should belong to others. I will respect the property of others, but I will prevent others from profiting from human suffering or the suffering of other species on Earth.
Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I am committed to cultivating responsibility and learning ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long-term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct.
Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivating loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness to others and relive others of their suffering. Knowing that words can create happiness or suffering, I am determined to speak truthfully, with words that inspire self confidence, joy, and hope. I will not spread news that I do not know to be certain and will not criticize or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or that can cause the family or the community to break. I am determined to make all efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small.
Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful consumption, I am committed to cultivating good health, both physical and mental, for myself, my family, and my society by practicing mindful eating, drinking, and consuming. I will ingest only items that preserve peace, well-being, and joy in my body, in my consciousness, and in the collective body and consciousness of my family and society. I am determined not to use alcohol or any other intoxicant or to ingest foods or other items that contain toxins, such as certain TV programs, magazines, books, films, and conversations. I am aware that to damage my body or my consciousness with these poisons is to betray my ancestors, my parents, my society, and future generations. I will work to transform violence, fear, anger, and confusion in myself and in society by practicing a diet for myself and for society. I understand that a proper diet is crucial for self-transformation of society.
Thich Nhat Hanh
At least that is the most concise explanation of the personal ethic I identify with.
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Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I'm very much into ethics philosophy, but it doesn't sound like what you're talking about. I'm not a Buddhist so I don't subscribe to not harming others/animals, abstaining from drug using/dealing, posions, etc. I understand why people are into it, I understand non-violent resistance, even in the face of imminent death. Just not my thing.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Gotcha. Myself, I'm about as much a Buddhist as Marx was a Marxist. Labels can be silly limiting things at times.
Ds
Bluelight Crew
can't really say i hate myself today, just disappointed in myself for making stupid decisions in my life, and today I am doing something about it.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
That's a great attitude to have D's. I'm really glad it works for you. Keep on the right path
samm2
Bluelighter
I was born catholic and thus am no buddhism expert but from what i think i understand----------
The beauty of buddhism is you don't have to "susbscribe" to anything really-none of this western religion "gotta convert the savages" mentality at all.
Maybe some sects somewhere get pushy with their view? Weither catholic or buddhist always go to the purist source of written scriptures so you don't get w warped views of what the religion is (like some ppl I knew/know) .................
starting_over
Bluelighter
This reminds me of the time when I was accidentally choking on a piece of food last year and while trying to cough it up, I thought to myself "just choke and die on it you worthless piece of shit"
Funny how the mind works...
Funny how the mind works...
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I'm beginning to think that I am severely depressed and I don't want "help", or meds.